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Tags Congressional hearings , donald trump , impeachment , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 1st October 2019, 06:39 AM   #481
plague311
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For all the concerns that this was going to hurt the Dems and piss off the electorate, the opposite seems true:

Quote:
The tweet — one of many Tuesday morning — came as Trump and his Republican allies continued to push back against a rapidly moving impeachment inquiry and as polls showed public support for removing Trump from office on the rise.
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Old 1st October 2019, 06:45 AM   #482
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To be fair, and so I don't just come across as a total grump, I can imagine if you went back in time and said that the President who just won an election where the electoral map looked like this:



: was going to be impeached (yeah, yeah not impeached "You can't fire me I quit" but... let's be real here impeached) in about 18 months would seem rather insane as well.
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Old 1st October 2019, 07:39 AM   #483
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You stand by a claim you demolished yourself. Ok.
No, I think going back to being a rep is consistent with advancing her career. Which is to say, even though she's stepping down from the top post, she still has a career. She still has work to do, a reputation to protect, and a future to think of. She's at the point of her career where it's less about grabbing the next brass ring, and more about securing what she's earned and retiring on her own terms. This is all part of "career advancement", in my shorthand.

Your "demolition" is based entirely on insisting that I don't mean what I mean. This is foolish.

If you can think of a more apt term for what I'm describing, I'd love to see it. Meanwhile, I'm not wrong for using a (in your view) less apt term to describe what's going on.

If you think I'm wrong about what's going on, you'll have to argue that, not terminology. And especially not argue terminology now that you know what I mean by the term I'm using.
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Old 1st October 2019, 08:51 AM   #484
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
No, I think going back to being a rep is consistent with advancing her career. Which is to say, even though she's stepping down from the top post, she still has a career.
I'm not sure you're clear on what the word "advancement" means.

Quote:
Your "demolition" is based entirely on insisting that I don't mean what I mean.
No, it's based entirely on insisting that you mean what you say.
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Old 1st October 2019, 09:07 AM   #485
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'm not sure you're clear on what the word "advancement" means.



No, it's based entirely on insisting that you mean what you say.
Okay, so what would you call what Pelosi is doing to safeguard her career interests, at this point in her career?

Also, why is it more important for you to insist on me changing the way I say what I mean, than to engage with what you know I actually mean?
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Old 1st October 2019, 09:31 AM   #486
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Okay, so what would you call what Pelosi is doing to safeguard her career interests, at this point in her career?
I'd call it exactly what you just wrote.

Quote:
Also, why is it more important for you to insist on me changing the way I say what I mean, than to engage with what you know I actually mean?
Because the only thing that I have to guess what you mean is what you say.
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Old 1st October 2019, 09:32 AM   #487
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Really, isn't anyone with a job "advancing one's career?"
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Old 1st October 2019, 09:58 AM   #488
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Really, isn't anyone with a job "advancing one's career?"
I'm sure if she were planning to flip burgers at a local McD, theprestige would call it advancing her career.
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Old 1st October 2019, 10:04 AM   #489
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Really, isn't anyone with a job "advancing one's career?"
Depends on the job, and depends on what they're doing with it. I'd say that in Pelosi's case, she's definitely charting a course through the impeachment question that serves her career goals. That safeguards what she's made of her career so far, and protects the potential for future opportunities.

Last edited by theprestige; 1st October 2019 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 1st October 2019, 10:09 AM   #490
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'm sure if she were planning to flip burgers at a local McD, theprestige would call it advancing her career.
I'm sure that if she were planning to flip burgers at McDonalds, then carrying out that plan would be career advancement even under your definition.
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Old 1st October 2019, 10:13 AM   #491
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
I'd call it exactly what you just wrote.



Because the only thing that I have to guess what you mean is what you say.
You don't have to guess, though: I've told you exactly what I mean. Repeatedly.

Last edited by theprestige; 1st October 2019 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 1st October 2019, 10:35 AM   #492
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Senate is going to dismiss...
No, in fact they will not. If the house authorizes articles of impeachment, McConnell has already said there will be a trial.
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Old 1st October 2019, 10:38 AM   #493
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Depends on the job, and depends on what they're doing with it. I'd say that in Pelosi's case, she's definitely charting a course through the impeachment question that serves her career goals. That safeguards what she's made of her career so far, and protects the potential for future opportunities.
So I take it you've levied similar criticism against Trump for deciding to run for re-election? After all, that would advance his career.
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Old 1st October 2019, 10:40 AM   #494
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
No, in fact they will not. If the house authorizes articles of impeachment, McConnell has already said there will be a trial.
Didn't say there wouldn't be a trial.
But as the first order of business. Mitch can ask the Senate to dismiss the case, and they can and probably will.

That way, the Senate doesn't have to hear any piece of evidence.
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Old 1st October 2019, 10:45 AM   #495
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
So I take it you've levied similar criticism against Trump for deciding to run for re-election? After all, that would advance his career.
One, there's nothing inherently wrong with advancing one's own interests. Two, I'm not criticizing Pelosi for working to protect her interest in the political career she's been building for the past several decades. Three, I see Trump more as having hobbies than having a career as such. But if you want to call what Trump is doing a career, then okay, sure: I levy exactly the same criticism at Trump that I do at Pelosi. Which is none.
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Old 1st October 2019, 10:48 AM   #496
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One, there's nothing inherently wrong with advancing one's own interests.
Then please remind me why it's being discussed in the impeachment thread.
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Old 1st October 2019, 10:51 AM   #497
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm sure that if she were planning to flip burgers at McDonalds, then carrying out that plan would be career advancement even under your definition.
Gotta love wordplay. It sure beats making reasoned arguments or admitting to one's errors.

Quote:
You don't have to guess, though: I've told you exactly what I mean. Repeatedly.
Yes, through what you said. See how that works?
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Old 1st October 2019, 10:57 AM   #498
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Didn't say there wouldn't be a trial.
But as the first order of business. Mitch can ask the Senate to dismiss the case, and they can and probably will.

That way, the Senate doesn't have to hear any piece of evidence.
You said dismiss. They will vote on impeachment. The Republicans face a huge problem after the House hearings. They will need to address the evidence that will be out there. Otherwise it will appear as a sham. Now that might not matter to the partisan base but it could matter very much to swing voters.
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Old 1st October 2019, 10:57 AM   #499
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You said dismiss. They will vote on impeachment. The Republicans face a huge problem after the House hearings. They will need to address the evidence that will be out there. Otherwise it will appear as a sham.
Not to their base, which is apparently the only voters they care about. Maybe they're going to rely on underhanded chicanery to get their way come 2020.
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Old 1st October 2019, 10:59 AM   #500
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Not to their base, which is apparently the only voters they care about. Maybe they're going to rely on underhanded chicanery to get their way come 2020.
Nothing surprises me about the GOP any more.

But I wonder why you cut off my post.
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Old 1st October 2019, 11:16 AM   #501
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Gotta love wordplay. It sure beats making reasoned arguments or admitting to one's errors.
I've been making reasoned arguments all along. Most significantly, the reasoned argument that preserving one's legacy and future opportunities is properly an aspect of career advancement. Maybe if you stopped looking at it as wordplay, and started looking at it as an attempt to advance an idea, you'd have a better time in this conversation.

Quote:
Yes, through what you said. See how that works?
I do. But somehow, even though I've said what I mean, you still seem to think you have to guess at what I mean.

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Old 1st October 2019, 11:21 AM   #502
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I've been making reasoned arguments all along. Most significantly, the reasoned argument that preserving one's legacy and future opportunities are properly an aspect of career advancement. Maybe if you stopped looking at it as wordplay, and started looking at it as an attempt to advance an idea, you'd have a better time in this conversation.


I do. But somehow, even though I've said what I mean, you still seem to think you have to guess at what I mean.
Not on this one Prestige. You made a mistake. One you should have recognized when it was pointed out to. You should have owned up to it and moved on. Instead, you are spinning and rationalizing. Give it up and let it go.
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Old 1st October 2019, 11:22 AM   #503
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Then please remind me why it's being discussed in the impeachment thread.
We were opining about Pelosi's motivation and strategy as she leads the impeachment process in the house. Belz... quibbled about me characterizing Pelosi's strategy as consistent with "career advancement", and then apparently decided that this dispute about terminology was a show-stopper to further discussion. Because it really confused him? I dunno. Probably not that important.

Anyway, feel free to move on, if this part of the discussion doesn't interest you. I'm about to do the same myself.
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Old 1st October 2019, 11:24 AM   #504
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Not on this one Prestige. You made a mistake. One you should have recognized when it was pointed out to. You should have owned up to it and moved on. Instead, you are spinning and rationalizing. Give it up and let it go.
What was the mistake, in your opinion?
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Old 1st October 2019, 11:29 AM   #505
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
But I wonder why you cut off my post.
Same reason why I isolate any part of a post I want to respond to: it's the part I want to respond to.
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Old 1st October 2019, 11:31 AM   #506
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Most significantly, the reasoned argument that preserving one's legacy and future opportunities is properly an aspect of career advancement.
It's not reasoned. It's wrong on its face. When you advance your career it's to improve your situation or status. Going back to a lower-tier job is not advancing your career.
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Old 1st October 2019, 11:31 AM   #507
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What was the mistake, in your opinion?
That Pelosi's motivation was her personal career. As if an almost 80 year old woman who has been Speaker of the House for 3 terms and has agreed to step down from that post is likely to be "career motivated". It's a poor analysis and is beneath what you usually bring to the party.
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Old 1st October 2019, 11:49 AM   #508
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That Pelosi's motivation was her personal career. As if an almost 80 year old woman who has been Speaker of the House for 3 terms and has agreed to step down from that post is likely to be "career motivated". It's a poor analysis and is beneath what you usually bring to the party.
This is a fair point. But to be clear, it's entirely separate from the terminology quibble that Belz... has embarked on. I understand if you want to dispute my characterization of what motivates Pelosi.
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Old 1st October 2019, 11:50 AM   #509
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Pompeo's going to stonewall. This was to be expected.
I suspect you are going to get a lot of leaks from the state department in the near future.
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Old 1st October 2019, 11:56 AM   #510
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Old 1st October 2019, 12:08 PM   #511
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This is a fair point. But to be clear, it's entirely separate from the terminology quibble that Belz... has embarked on. I understand if you want to dispute my characterization of what motivates Pelosi.
It seems to me you've been arguing around that point and then got lost in the weeds.
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Old 1st October 2019, 12:13 PM   #512
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It seems to me you've been arguing around that point and then got lost in the weeds.
I think you're actually the first one to actually argue that point.
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Old 1st October 2019, 12:35 PM   #513
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And now Trump has apparently asked Australia for oranges.
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Old 1st October 2019, 12:51 PM   #514
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Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
And now Trump has apparently asked Australia for oranges.

He's had trouble pronouncing "origins" for a while now. Back in April he asked journalists to look into the oranges of the Mueller report.
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Old 1st October 2019, 12:52 PM   #515
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Gotta maintain that skin tone. Can't rely on the TV networks to color adjust!
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Old 1st October 2019, 12:58 PM   #516
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How does he suck so much at speaking?
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Old 1st October 2019, 01:14 PM   #517
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
How does he suck so much at speaking?
Not everyone is good at public speaking. It's a skill.


Also having a stupid brain infected with insanity and racked with nutritional deficit while shrinking in old age and increasing senility can't exactly help.
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Old 1st October 2019, 01:20 PM   #518
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
How does he suck so much at speaking?
Ninja magic.

Also, probably lack of formal training. I'm pretty articulate, but still woefully amateurish. I'd probably benefit a lot from joining toastmasters and putting some real effort into polishing my speech.

I think this is probably something that sets Donald Trump apart from most career politicians. I think that to succeed at the higher levels of a political career, an elected official has to have some talent at public speaking, and has to nurture and grow that talent. Between appealing to voters and appealing to donors, being able to speak well is an important professional skill for most career politicians.

But Trump has advanced along a different path, one that doesn't put such a heavy requirement on good public speaking. He's able to get by on force of personality in more intimate settings, and raw demagogue appeal in larger venues. But actually talking well isn't really his thing.
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Old 1st October 2019, 01:41 PM   #519
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Depends on the job, and depends on what they're doing with it. I'd say that in Pelosi's case, she's definitely charting a course through the impeachment question that serves her career goals. That safeguards what she's made of her career so far, and protects the potential for future opportunities.
She is going to be 80 years old in March. I question whether she's looking for future political opportunities.
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Old 1st October 2019, 01:54 PM   #520
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Originally Posted by Jungle Jim View Post
She is going to be 80 years old in March. I question whether she's looking for future political opportunities.
Speaking engagements. Book deals.

There's also reputation, legacy, and professional networks to think about, at this stage in her career. All of these interests can and should still be advanced, to whatever degree they are interests for her.
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