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1st February 2021, 11:44 AM | #41 |
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The Oxford Vaccine is being sold at cost, AstraZeneca aren't making a profit on it.
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1st February 2021, 12:40 PM | #42 |
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So I take it that you can find no evidence to support your assertion.
Try reading this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54303061 or this https://www.biopharma-reporter.com/A...nation-targets or this https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres.../en/ip_20_1438 or this https://www.ft.com/content/8b48a853-...4-17026fa15472 |
1st February 2021, 12:43 PM | #43 |
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1st February 2021, 12:45 PM | #44 |
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1st February 2021, 12:48 PM | #45 |
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No, we are not talking about paying for advance orders. I was referring to EU investment into (a) developing the AstraZeneca vaccine and (b) additional investment into the UK factory in Wrexham to expand production. IOW the EU seems pretty certain it had an interest in procuring that vaccine.
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1st February 2021, 01:34 PM | #46 |
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That's not what the contract said at all though. The contract said 'if you want to send us vaccines make sure it was made in the EU unless we give you permission otherwise, oh and to avoid hassle we will consider the UK plants to be EU plants'
It had nothing to do with trade barriers or tariffs. The 'export ban' had nothing to do with this clause either it was because there was suspicion that AZ were exporting vaccine to countries paying more for it while being unable to meet EU demand (whether this was happening or not I have no idea) The claim on the UK factory was that AZ had made a contract with the EU to deliver X vials of vaccine and that the contract could be potentially fulfilled by using UK supply as well as EU supply. Of course AZ had other contractual commitments for which that supply was earmarked. And then all of this gets conflated into THE EU ARE TRYING TO STEAL OUR VACCINE! |
1st February 2021, 02:21 PM | #47 |
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The EU Commission admitted being in the wrong, why are you still defending something they themselves won't?
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1st February 2021, 03:19 PM | #48 |
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1st February 2021, 03:55 PM | #49 |
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Will we get a referendum on joining the trans-Pacific trading bloc and become subject to their rules, regulations and tribunal?
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1st February 2021, 11:27 PM | #50 |
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ETA: Wrong thread.
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Слава Україні! **** Putin! |
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2nd February 2021, 02:34 AM | #51 |
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2nd February 2021, 02:36 AM | #52 |
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2nd February 2021, 02:39 AM | #53 |
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2nd February 2021, 05:56 AM | #54 |
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The EU has condemned "threats" against staff making Brexit-related checks at Northern Ireland's ports, and told EU officials working in Northern Ireland not to attend their duties.
On Monday, Mid and East Antrim Council withdrew staff from Brexit inspection duties over security fears. After the local authority decided to withdraw its staff, Stormont announced it was suspending physical inspections of food consignments - particularly meat, fish and dairy products - at Larne and Belfast. A number of lorries have been redirected away from a border control post near Belfast's Docks, says BBC News NI's Michael Fitzpatrick at the scene. The vehicles were stopped on the main road outside the Daera site on Duncrue Street by Border Force officers on Tuesday morning and redirected elsewhere. There is no activity taking place within the facility and the main gate into the site remains closed. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55901429 |
2nd February 2021, 07:55 AM | #55 |
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There's always a cost to such things and taxpayers money is involved.
So there is a case for a referendum. But it isn't a political union, is it ? It has no analogue of the EU commission or parliament, it isn't a customs union with a common external tariff and it does not interfere with the internal affairs of it's members. |
2nd February 2021, 07:56 AM | #56 |
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2nd February 2021, 08:39 AM | #57 |
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2nd February 2021, 08:47 AM | #58 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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2nd February 2021, 10:13 AM | #59 |
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More evidence that the geniuses in Westminster didn't read and/or understand the Brexit deal. The UK can no longer export live shellfish to the EU.
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This is the bit where it's clear that Boris Johnson and his numpty friends didn't understand (or maybe didn't care) what they had signed us up for:
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2nd February 2021, 10:42 AM | #60 |
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Technically of course its still possible, you just need to be fishing in waters rated A+ for cleanliness, which of course few British waters are. It really does come across as a case of Boris and co. hearing what they wanted to hear, the equivalent of Trump's 'a lot of people are saying'.
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2nd February 2021, 11:22 AM | #61 |
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Don't forget the bees. A bee exporter has been told that 15m bees he planned to export face being destroyed for the same reason as the cockles and mussels (see above):
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Businessman, Murfet planned to get around this by going via Northern Ireland:
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He's paid £20K so far deposit and looks to lose £100K. |
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2nd February 2021, 11:33 AM | #62 |
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2nd February 2021, 11:36 AM | #63 |
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2nd February 2021, 12:01 PM | #64 |
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2nd February 2021, 12:51 PM | #65 |
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2nd February 2021, 12:53 PM | #66 |
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2nd February 2021, 01:37 PM | #67 |
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It may have come via the European Investment Bank but it was a grant (=which is not a loan; a loan means you have to pay the sum back with interest over a set period of time). The EU insofar as the AstraZeneca vaccine contract goes was to regard the UK factory bases as EU ones (and the contract was drawn up during the transition period so quite legally sound).
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Your claim that the AstraZeneca vaccine is 100% a British project is erroneous, misconceived and wrong, leading to your elementary logical fallacy (= the false premise). Thus, your claims and conclusion are hopelessly flawed and seem based on jingoism and flag-waving, rather than in the business real world. |
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2nd February 2021, 03:18 PM | #68 |
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2nd February 2021, 04:27 PM | #69 |
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I have never claimed that the Oxford / AZ vaccine is 100% British (whatever that means). AZ is a multinational Anglo-Swedish pharmaceutical company. You are creating a straw dog. You claimed the EU had funded the vaccine manufacturing capability in the UK. I asked you for evidence for this claim. You claim it, you should provide evidence to back your claim.
I provided EU documents saying that the EU supported vaccine manufacturing by 1) pre paying for vaccine and 2) providing loans (the EU term) from the EIB. Banks do not give grants.* I provided references to the fact that the UK government funded the UK manufacturing capability. Notably your highlighted section above does NOT refer to vaccine manufacturing. The reason the EU wanted the UK factory regarded as EU was otherwise its product would be a biological product from a third country and would need to go through all the paperwork and customs restrictions we hear about blocking the travel of molluscs and bees. One would not want millions of vaccine doses going to waste because the customs paperwork was wrong or the factory had not been inspected by the EU pharma authorities etc. As a GMO the vaccine is particularly restricted. * i would be very anxious if an insolvency practitioner thought banks gave out money as grants; a little hint, banks always want their money back - with interest. |
3rd February 2021, 03:30 AM | #70 |
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3rd February 2021, 03:47 AM | #71 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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3rd February 2021, 03:57 AM | #72 |
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And in the “who could have known...” file - sorry volume 129...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55913907
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Quote:
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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3rd February 2021, 03:59 AM | #73 |
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They aren't going to let us join anyway.
But, we are talking about people that are obsessed with 'sovereignty' Some of them even object to the WTO because we would have to follow someone else's rules. How do you think the rabid Brexiters would react if we joined and found ourselves subject to arbitration that went against us? Because with the attitude of the current Govt we are bound to end up breaking the rules we sign up to. |
3rd February 2021, 04:10 AM | #74 |
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3rd February 2021, 04:11 AM | #75 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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3rd February 2021, 04:18 AM | #76 |
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Look, I have worked for a charity and part of our mission was to seek grants wherever we could find them. The fact is, whilst Oxford University owns the patent for the particular vaccine AstraZeneca produces, it is in actual fact only the lead university out of others it collaborated with in the EU. AIUI one of the lead scientists is French. Just as the UK took out supplies of the vaccine from the plant in Belgium or the Netherlands, likewise, the EU was entitled to access to that produced in the UK.
BTW whilst it is indeed commendable that the vaccine was developed so rapidly, the true pioneers and credit for this type of vaccine goes to Salk and Sabin who made the prototype - cultivating the virus and inactivating via the livers of the African Green Monkey - and thereby making approval by the regulators so much more speedier than an unknown process. Salk and Sabin were American so stop waving the flag. |
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3rd February 2021, 04:20 AM | #77 |
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Maybe not calling Brexiteers "rabid" would be a start.
Pre-judging people is never a good thing. Let me explain my view of sovereignty. Sovereignty is power, that power belongs to those who live here. Including immigrants. It is the power to democratically decide how we are governed. It is something that needs working on. We are not democratic enough. I lost the vote in 2011 to replace First Past the Post with AV. For me, the next challenge to make this country more democratic requires a vote on European style Proportional Representation, not whingey sulks about not being in the EU anymore. That's what I want to campaign for. Whatever concerns you may have about Brexiteers and the TPP, this Brexiteer is cool about the TPP, I don't have any hatred of foreigners. All my adult life I have been motivated by trying to make politics more locally connected and democratic. The greater the gap the more abstracted the political process and the more alienated the voter becomes. That's my personal feeling on the matter. That's why sovereignty is important to me. |
3rd February 2021, 04:25 AM | #78 |
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IMV the EU and Ursula von der Leyen (together with Stella Kryiandios [_sp?]) have the moral high ground, albeit their implementing Article 16 was not very diplomatic given the threat to the GFA.
Planigale's claim that UK have 'third country' sole rights to the AstraZeneca production in Wrexham is pure opinion with no connection to the reality of the business world. It seems wholly derived from ridiculous jingoistic logic. |
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3rd February 2021, 04:29 AM | #79 |
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3rd February 2021, 04:31 AM | #80 |
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The EIB certainly appears to be able to finance projects outside the EU. I would have been surprised if it hadn't.
https://www.eib.org/attachments/coun...rt_2017_en.pdf |
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