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4th February 2021, 06:16 AM | #161 |
should be banned
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4th February 2021, 06:51 AM | #162 |
Illuminator
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4th February 2021, 07:28 AM | #163 |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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4th February 2021, 08:42 AM | #165 |
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Wrong.
And there were other ways to leave the EU which would have avoided this scenario which could have occurred had the "stop Brexit" gang not brought down Theresa May and given rise to Boris. But moderate Brexit voices were marginalised and compromise ceased to be a possibility, sadly. The choices left before us were destroy our democracy, or take an economic risk. And it really would have destroyed our economy if we hadn't left as nobody would have any faith left in voting. |
4th February 2021, 08:46 AM | #166 |
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If anyone is to blame for May’s resignation it is Johnson and his supporters, how anyone can think it was anyone else is beyond me. He voted against Brexit several times, declared her deal was unworkable and then after he got what he has always expected was his by right i.e. became PM did the same deal in everything but a few switched around clauses!
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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4th February 2021, 08:57 AM | #167 |
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Actually it was both the ERG and the stop Brexit lot who voted down her bill repeatedly.
If the Stop Brexit lot had voted with her, it would have marginalised Boris ultimately that would prevented the 2019 election and probably would have resulted in a government of national unity in 2020, in response to Covid. With a government of national unity, scientific advice would have been taken more seriously and the death toll would probably have been much lower. And the fisheries standards alignment would probably have happened preventing export problems. |
4th February 2021, 09:15 AM | #168 |
Penultimate Amazing
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hahahahahaha
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4th February 2021, 09:51 AM | #169 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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4th February 2021, 09:53 AM | #170 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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4th February 2021, 09:56 AM | #171 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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4th February 2021, 09:58 AM | #172 |
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Or perhaps if the Brexiters such as Johnson and the EG had supported her bill repeatedly it would have passed as she had a majority with the unionist’s votes.....
It is astonishing that you put the blame on those that didn’t want Brexit but those that did aren’t to blame even though they kept voting against Brexit bills! (And then they did vote for the same bloody bill once Johnson got his rightful position!) The board is sure full of irony tonight. |
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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4th February 2021, 09:58 AM | #173 |
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Catsmate, if you create a situation where people vote for something, you create a situation where that vote has to be honoured.
If you go back on your word, trust is destroyed and your party and any other that went along with you is finished. Do you know what would have happened, in the long run, following a situation where Brexit hadn't gone ahead "because it was only an advisory vote" ? Nigel Farage would have gained power. And many of you would be scratching your head wondering why. |
4th February 2021, 09:59 AM | #174 |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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4th February 2021, 10:00 AM | #175 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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4th February 2021, 10:02 AM | #176 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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4th February 2021, 10:04 AM | #177 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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4th February 2021, 10:07 AM | #178 |
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves. |
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4th February 2021, 10:09 AM | #179 |
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Sure:
EFTA budget: 23,792,000 CHF https://www.efta.int/About-EFTA/Fina...nformation-748 EFTA is an FTA. APEC has a membership fee of US$3.38 million per year. NAFTA had a membership fee of US $1m per year. Political customs unions which go far further than an FTA, they cost more, as they integrate economics and politics into a common system, with common agricultural policies fisheries policies and so on. I oppose such things because they take away democratic choice. For the same reason I oppose joining the Cairns group, despite liking the agricultural system those countries use. |
4th February 2021, 10:11 AM | #180 |
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4th February 2021, 10:14 AM | #181 |
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4th February 2021, 08:08 PM | #182 |
post-pre-born
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4th February 2021, 08:19 PM | #183 |
post-pre-born
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4th February 2021, 08:27 PM | #184 |
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4th February 2021, 10:14 PM | #185 |
Schrödinger's cat
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The Tories' crackpot right wing, whose silence Cameron bought in 2015 by agreeing to the referendum so their bleating wouldn't cost him the election, are now in complete control of the party and the country. Moderate Tories (and I still can't believe I'm describing the likes of Kenneth Clarke and Michael Heseltine - Thatcher's right hand men - as moderate) have been pretty much purged from the party. This government is the furthest right of any in my (nearly 70 year) lifetime.
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"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
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4th February 2021, 11:05 PM | #186 |
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So true. UKIP joined en masse and that is where the UK is now. A nutty flag-waving sinking ship, with the likes of Dominic Grieve, Ken Clarke, Philip Hammond cast adrift and veering off into the distance. Even May looks like a rabid Marxist next to what we see in power today.
In his thirst for power, Johnson saw off ex-Chancellor Sajid Javid, who at least had the integrity to resign on being ordered to give up his own [essential, independent from No. 10] aides and come under the direct control of Dominic Cummings. All of the cabinet are little more than Johnson's nodding dogs, with very little talent to be found amongst them. Sunak is far brighter than Johnson but happily sold himself out. |
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who claims the soulless Who speaks for the forgotten dead ~ Danzig |
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5th February 2021, 02:42 AM | #187 |
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The way to avoid that situation was obvious, but extremist Europhiles wouldn't have it. They *had to stay in at all costs* despite the UK voting not to.
As such, Theresa May, who was relatively speaking a moderate, was forced out. If Labour had helped her out, and got her bill through, come the next election she'd have lost, because when it came to election campaigning she was hopeless. |
5th February 2021, 02:46 AM | #188 |
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5th February 2021, 02:55 AM | #189 |
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From 2017-2019 Brexiteers did not have a Parliamentary majority.
There was the opportunity for moderates and Europhile extremists too, to shape our departure and get us out in a different manner, but the extremists such as Starmer wouldn't have it because the "no deal" threat was on the table (it was only ever a negotiating ploy). There could be a different treaty now, one more favourable to him, and to you. But he wouldn't have it. And, on a historical note, this is all Michael Heseltine's fault. Why ? Because in 1990, in order to ram what became the Maastricht Treaty through, the Europhiles had to get rid of Thatcher. So he challenged her for the leadership. His friend John Major (another Europhile, and the man who caused Black Wednesday), became PM with Heseltine as Deputy PM. They signed Maastricht without a referendum provoking a rebellion that lead to our departure. If there had been a referendum on the Maastricht treaty, Amsterdam, Nice, Lisbon... The relationship would have been more democratic. I suspect we wouldn't have had a referendum on membership. |
5th February 2021, 03:02 AM | #190 |
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"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion "Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills |
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5th February 2021, 03:10 AM | #191 |
Illuminator
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5th February 2021, 03:16 AM | #192 |
should be banned
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Brexiteers have been in the majority since the referendum. Broadly speaking parliament was 1/3 remain, 1/3 hard brexit, 1/3 soft Brexit. It was the inability of the last two groups to see eye to eye that caused the hesitancy. This ended when Boris one if the hard brexiteers delivered a soft brexit.
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5th February 2021, 03:23 AM | #193 |
Schrödinger's cat
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Originally hard Brexit meant leaving the single market/customs union. Only when crashing out without a withdrawal agreement and/or trade agreement became a real possibility did it get redefined to mean that.
Johnson delivered a hard Brexit by the original definition. |
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"If you trust in yourself ... and believe in your dreams ... and follow your star ... you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things" - Terry Pratchett |
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5th February 2021, 03:26 AM | #194 |
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5th February 2021, 03:28 AM | #195 |
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5th February 2021, 03:29 AM | #196 |
Lackey
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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5th February 2021, 03:30 AM | #197 |
Lackey
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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5th February 2021, 03:30 AM | #198 |
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https://ec.europa.eu/fisheries/press...ements-2020_en
Take a look. It can be done without being in the customs union. |
5th February 2021, 03:30 AM | #199 |
Lackey
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“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
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5th February 2021, 03:32 AM | #200 |
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No we had four years of extremists one on side trying to stop Brexit and extremists on the other trying to get the hardest Brexit possible and those who tried to compromise, got pushed aside by Boris.
But now the fishing industry has a voice, it's time to stand with them and push for a Norway style alignment on fisheries. |
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