|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
5th June 2021, 07:17 PM | #81 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
|
6th June 2021, 09:30 PM | #82 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
|
It was prevalent enough that members of this board bought into it.
And yes, sometimes it is a good idea to admit that you have crackpots on your side, even if that also means that you need to point out that the crackpots on your side aren't the ones in control. Totally ignoring it leads to charges of hypocrisy. ETA: In both cases, a bunch of fringe crazies have come up with the same loopy idea. The real difference between the two situations is that the Republicans have divorced themselves so far from reality that they are willing to entertain the crazy whereas the Democrats just pat them on the head and say "There there, have some dried frog pills, put on your tin foil hat and go sit in the corner till you feel better." |
__________________
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
|
6th June 2021, 10:10 PM | #83 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
|
6th June 2021, 10:51 PM | #84 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 10,589
|
|
6th June 2021, 10:57 PM | #85 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
|
|
6th June 2021, 11:32 PM | #86 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
|
The two ideas are indeed the same, get the failed presidential candidate into the presidential position by electing them to the house, making them Speaker, then removing the President and VP so the Speaker becomes the new President.
What exactly do you think is different between the current idea and the one that Hillary's fringe supporters had in 2016? |
__________________
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
|
7th June 2021, 12:14 AM | #87 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
|
It's a false equivalence to compare the GOP where the party and many of the legislators are discussing Trump running for Congress and he is considering the idea ...
... with nutty ideas some fringe people have discussed that no Democratic Party leaders and no Democratic legislators and no Democrats in any position of leadership have seriously considered. |
7th June 2021, 01:28 AM | #88 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
|
And no one has done that, in fact, you are just repeating the very thing I said in my first post, the one you jumped all over.
I have said and will continue to say, the idea is the same one... because it is. My first post on the subject notes that the difference was that the GOP leadership was taking the crazy seriously while the Democrat leadership didn't. But that reception doesn't change the fact that the crazies in the Republicans are spouting the same idea as crazy fringe Democrats did in 2016. It also doesn't make the idea any more or any less crazy. |
__________________
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
|
7th June 2021, 09:18 AM | #89 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
|
|
7th June 2021, 04:44 PM | #90 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
|
Feel free to quote me saying that the GOP and the Democrats are the exactly same. Go on I double-dog dare you.
I know you have trouble admitting you read it wrong and have entrenched your claims, but perhaps going back and reading what was actually said instead of what you desperately want to have been said, you might just discover that it was you that made the miskate. I know, shocking right..... |
__________________
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
|
7th June 2021, 04:50 PM | #91 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
|
|
7th June 2021, 05:29 PM | #92 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
|
Since when are ideas political parties?
And a second question. Are the ideas the same or not, if not, why not, and no the reception of an idea by different parties does not make the idea different. And that wasn't the post where this exchange started. You really are having trouble here. |
__________________
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
|
7th June 2021, 06:48 PM | #93 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
|
|
7th June 2021, 07:09 PM | #94 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
|
I'll take that as an admission that you know that you can't answer those questions without admitting you were wrong. Though I'd also point out that failure to admit when you got something wrong isn't the best position for a person who claims to be a skeptic.
You know, instead of digging the hole so deep, you'd have been far better off just fessing up and saying, "Opps, yeah I misread your post, my bad" several posts back. |
__________________
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
|
7th June 2021, 08:53 PM | #95 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
|
|
7th June 2021, 09:05 PM | #96 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 21,203
|
When one is wrong then it is a good idea to admit it rather than continue to dig the hole deeper because of pride, yeah.
In this case, you either truly believe that if two crazy elements of two political parties have the same idea then pointing out that they have the same idea somehow is the same as declaring the parties themselves are the same (big hint, it isn't) or you went off halfcocked because a common turn of phrase triggered you and you didn't bother reading what was actually said because you "knew" what was said due to your triggered state. Either way, the longer you drag it out... |
__________________
It must be fun to lead a life completely unburdened by reality. -- JayUtah I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. -- Charles Babbage (1791-1871) |
|
8th June 2021, 07:34 AM | #97 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The old Same place
Posts: 11,138
|
|
__________________
My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie. |
|
11th June 2021, 01:54 PM | #98 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
I just watched Sen. Joni Ernst (R) on The View. She was asked about some Republicans' attempts to re-write history concerning the 1/6 uprising. She went on at great length about the recent "bi-partisan Senate report" on the failures of intelligence and the police that day and stated there are several ongoing investigations so it "never happens again". But what she failed to mention is that there is not a single investigation into Trump's and other Congressmembers' part in that insurrection. I was disappointed none of the View hosts called her on that.
|
11th June 2021, 05:45 PM | #99 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
Putin described Trump as "colorful" and "talented" in an interview today:
Quote:
Looks like Vlad is still hoping Donnie runs and wins in 2024 so he's continuing to play to his narcissism which is the one sure way to Donnie's heart...besides money. |
12th June 2021, 11:10 PM | #100 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
And the crazies just keep on being crazy with MyPillow Loonie Lindell holding a rally:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
13th June 2021, 07:20 AM | #101 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
|
|
13th June 2021, 07:57 AM | #102 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,558
|
|
__________________
“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
|
13th June 2021, 01:48 PM | #103 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
|
14th June 2021, 04:39 AM | #104 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
|
or it's part of a campaign to normalize a brazen lie as part of a long running scheme to seize power.
The "stop the steal" lies are going to be repeated by the right wing forever, and reinvigorated in every election they don't win. The right wing is laying the foundation for their pretext to seize power after a "stolen" election in plain sight. Whether or not is is true isn't really that important when you consider the practical implications. |
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey |
|
14th June 2021, 06:24 PM | #105 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
Lindell is nuts. But I agree that the right wing is going to repeat the Big Lie for a long, long time. It will eventually fade away as Trumpers die off leaving fewer idiots who swallowed it and history reveals even more strongly that is was just that: a lie.
Speaking of seizing power, that POS McConnell is saying it's "highly unlikely" he'd allow a Biden SCOTUS nominee to come up before the Senate if the GOP retakes it in 2022. Now, how is that for out and out denying the Constitutional right of the President to nominate and present for confirmation a new Justice? This is why I detest McConnell even more than Trump. At least Trump has somewhat of an excuse as he's mentally ill. McConnell is just an anti-democratic power, hungry POS. |
15th June 2021, 04:35 AM | #106 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
|
"Fading away" is awfully optimistic.
This particular attack on the system didn't work, but it absolutely showed that the system is generally vulnerable. It's plainly clear that an attack through secretaries of states and other electoral administration offices is a valid way to tilt close elections Likewise it is clear that processes around the electoral college and vote certification are also extremely vulnerable to bad actors in places of trust. I see no reason to believe that just because Trump's 2020 gambit failed, this vulnerability will not be further exploited. The fascist right is ensuring that their own faithful ideologues are in key positions of influence for future crisis. Republicans that took their duties seriously in 2020 and didn't rig the vote were identified and are being removed and replaced. All the stories about poll workers and election officials being menaced make it clear. The fascists have identified the soft target in our system and are pushing hard. Assuming this is a passing danger is naive. |
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey |
|
15th June 2021, 07:29 AM | #107 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,415
|
|
15th June 2021, 07:36 AM | #108 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
|
I don't understand this , "attack on the system" and "system is vulnerable" stuff. It isn't a vulnerability. These rules are very explicit. It is the system. It would be like saying basketball is vulnerable to free throws.
|
15th June 2021, 10:16 AM | #109 |
Muse
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 798
|
Not every trumper is a 80 year old boomer with one foot in the grave. Anecdotally speaking as a 40 something genX-er, I'd be hard pressed to count on one hand fellow Biden supporters in my social circle. I have also observed a rightward drift as my peer group ages. I have no reason to believe 20 somethings now are immune to such a pull. In otherwords, i do not share in your optimism that "Trumpers will die off".
|
15th June 2021, 10:17 AM | #110 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,558
|
|
__________________
“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
|
15th June 2021, 10:20 AM | #111 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
|
Warning: Bobbing in progress.
|
15th June 2021, 10:27 AM | #112 |
Nasty Woman
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 96,386
|
This too shall pass. McCarthyism did. But it may be a while given how thoroughly the GOP has become the Dump party.
When Dump dies though, who's left to take over? No one. He's too narcissistic for such a protege. Even his kids are has-beens despite trying to still be relevant. There are a few GOP legislators vying to inherit Dump's followers. I don't think any of them look very promising as the next cult leader. |
15th June 2021, 10:39 AM | #113 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
|
|
15th June 2021, 12:05 PM | #114 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ
Posts: 3,668
|
|
__________________
"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade |
|
15th June 2021, 12:09 PM | #115 |
Maledictorian
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 22,558
|
|
__________________
“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
|
15th June 2021, 12:29 PM | #116 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 60,375
|
|
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty. Robert Heinlein. |
|
15th June 2021, 01:26 PM | #117 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 22,789
|
|
15th June 2021, 07:16 PM | #118 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
I didn't say they were and I also said it would take a "long, long time". Trump supporters are generally older and white. Polls* show that voters 18-44 prefer Biden while Trump's biggest support come from those over 65, 45-65 are pretty much evenly split. It's true that people tend to become more conservative as they age, but that doesn't mean they become idiots and become authoritarian lovers. Also, our demographics are changing and the white voter will become less dominant as the percentage of people of color grows. Voters of color overwhelmingly vote Democratic regardless of age.
*https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-votes-age-us/ |
15th June 2021, 08:34 PM | #119 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dharug & Gundungurra
Posts: 16,810
|
|
__________________
...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015 |
|
15th June 2021, 11:00 PM | #120 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 32,926
|
|
Thread Tools | |
|
|