IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags cancel culture

Reply
Old 28th September 2021, 12:02 PM   #81
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,301
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Ahh... I see we've now blown right past the persecution of actual fascists, and are now fully on board with the persecution of people who don't support the persecution of fascists.

It's not longer just nazis at the end of that pitchfork, it's anyone who isn't willing to pick up a pitchfork and attack nazis with you.

This is absolutely authoritarian fascism and zealotry. Torquemada would be proud.
Pretextual mewling about "free speech" and the "marketplace of ideas". As I said earlier, if you are not against them, then you are enabling them, you are helping them to stay out of sight to grow and thrive. That makes you part of the problem.

You also seem to be confusing "nazi" with "fascist"
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!!

Last edited by smartcooky; 28th September 2021 at 12:10 PM.
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2021, 02:24 PM   #82
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
But really how can you write a whole paragraph about how unfair I’m using nazi after you wrote this:
Do you not understand what tactics are?
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2021, 03:10 PM   #83
Delphic Oracle
Philosopher
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,415
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Ahh... I see we've now blown right past the persecution of actual fascists, and are now fully on board with the persecution of people who don't support the persecution of fascists.

It's not longer just nazis at the end of that pitchfork, it's anyone who isn't willing to pick up a pitchfork and attack nazis with you.

This is absolutely authoritarian fascism and zealotry. Torquemada would be proud.
Well there's "not supporting" and then there's "actively defending."

But what's important in this discussion is that you are the victim in all of this.
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2021, 03:16 PM   #84
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 11,901
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Did you forget there was a witness?
Are you taking their word for it?
__________________
“Knowledge is Power; France is Bacon.”
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2021, 03:20 PM   #85
dirtywick
Philosopher
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,481
The real victims are the holocaust deniers who lose their anonymity and are held socially accountable for their voluntary words and actions. To non-violently confront ideas you disagree with using words on social media is really the tactics used by authoritarians and fascists.
dirtywick is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2021, 03:34 PM   #86
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,301
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Are you taking their word for it?
Is there a valid reason not to?

Do you have evidence that the witness lied?
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!!
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2021, 03:37 PM   #87
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Well there's "not supporting" and then there's "actively defending."

But what's important in this discussion is that you are the victim in all of this.


I'm annoyed but I'm certainly not a victim. But whatever. Keep on ad homing.
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2021, 03:38 PM   #88
Delphic Oracle
Philosopher
 
Delphic Oracle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,415
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post




I'm annoyed but I'm certainly not a victim. But whatever. Keep on ad homing.
Says the person comparing others to nazis.
Delphic Oracle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2021, 03:39 PM   #89
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
On a bit more of a "wtf" note...

Apparently NYP is out to cancel a mentally ill homeless person.

This hate-filled NYC homeless man is bane of the neighborhood
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2021, 03:39 PM   #90
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Says the person comparing others to nazis.
I didn't compare anyone to nazis. Read more better.
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2021, 04:31 PM   #91
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
 
TurkeysGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
On a bit more of a "wtf" note...

Apparently NYP is out to cancel a mentally ill homeless person.

This hate-filled NYC homeless man is bane of the neighborhood
What they gonna do, get him fired?
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey
TurkeysGhost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2021, 04:58 PM   #92
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
What they gonna do, get him fired?
More likely to get him harassed, verbally and physically abused, and potentially killed.
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2021, 05:27 PM   #93
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,301
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I didn't compare anyone to nazis. Read more better.
Learn English grammar
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!!
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th September 2021, 06:37 PM   #94
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 11,901
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Is there a valid reason not to?
If the potential consequences are someone losing their job, I'd practice a bit more skepticism than trusting an unidentified rando answering a leading question in a 30-second video clip.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Do you have evidence that the witness lied?
He needn't've lied to be incorrect.
__________________
“Knowledge is Power; France is Bacon.”

Last edited by d4m10n; 28th September 2021 at 06:42 PM.
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 12:31 AM   #95
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,301
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
If the potential consequences are someone losing their job, I'd practice a bit more skepticism than trusting an unidentified rando answering a leading question in a 30-second video clip.
So, that will be no then

Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
He needn't've lied to be incorrect.
So, that will also be no then
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong.

Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!!
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 04:29 AM   #96
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
 
TurkeysGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
I'm sure the cancel culture pundits will be along any time now to condemn these racist and censorious groups going around trying to mass purge books from public schools:

Quote:
School books about Martin Luther King Jr. are too “divisive,” claims a conservative group at the center of a Tennessee book ban battle. A story about the astronomer Galileo Galilei is “anti-church.” A picture book about seahorses is too sexy.

As the school year resumes, simmering fights over school books have returned to a boil. In some schools, like in Pennsylvania’s Central York School District this week, students have beaten back bans on books about racism. But elsewhere, like in Tennessee’s Williamson County School District, the battle is ongoing, bolstered by new state laws that ban the teaching of certain race-related topics. At the heart of that fight is a conservative group, led by a private-school parent, that has a sprawling list of complaints against common classroom books. Many of the books are about race, but other targets include dragons, sad little owls, and hurricanes.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/far-ri...luther-king-jr
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey
TurkeysGhost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 04:35 AM   #97
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
....snip...
What a load of garbage. There are plenty of people out there in the UK and the USA that self-identify as Nazis, that want to carry on the policies that the Nazis have always promulgated.
__________________
If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 04:40 AM   #98
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
 
TurkeysGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What a load of garbage. There are plenty of people out there in the UK and the USA that self-identify as Nazis, that want to carry on the policies that the Nazis have always promulgated.
Don't be unfair, let's hear what the gentleman wearing a "Right Wing Death Squad" patch on his combat gear while menacing people in the public square has to say before we judge.
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey
TurkeysGhost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 06:05 AM   #99
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
 
TurkeysGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
Let's wait for Bari Weiss to have this cancelled academic on her substack.

Quote:
ISRAELI DIPLOMAT PRESSURED UNC TO REMOVE TEACHER WHO CRITICIZED ISRAEL
An Israeli consul general baselessly accused a graduate student of antisemitism and said she shouldn’t teach a course on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

THIS AUGUST, Israeli consular officials in the southeast U.S. arranged meetings with a dean at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill to discuss a graduate student teaching a course on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. According to two UNC professors with knowledge of the meetings, who asked for anonymity for fear of retribution, the Israeli official accused the Ph.D. student of antisemitism and said she was unfit to teach the course.
https://theintercept.com/2021/09/28/...demic-freedom/
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey
TurkeysGhost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 06:16 AM   #100
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
Oh my God are we seriously having the "It's totally unreasonable (and not... TRUE SKEPTIC(TM)) to assume that just because someone says they are a Nazi that they are actually a Nazi" argument YET ******* AGAIN.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 06:28 AM   #101
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
 
TurkeysGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh my God are we seriously having the "It's totally unreasonable (and not... TRUE SKEPTIC(TM)) to assume that just because someone says they are a Nazi that they are actually a Nazi" argument YET ******* AGAIN.
It's hard to gauge, but I generally get the impression that these hilariously obtuse arguments simply don't have the sway they used to. Even people who might be squeamish about more overt types of antifascism increasingly recognize that these defense of fascists in the name of civility and free speech are moronic and/or extremely misguided.

Pearl clutching doesn't work like it used to, at least to my estimation.
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

Last edited by TurkeysGhost; 29th September 2021 at 06:30 AM.
TurkeysGhost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 06:29 AM   #102
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Oh my God are we seriously having the "It's totally unreasonable (and not... TRUE SKEPTIC(TM)) to assume that just because someone says they are a Nazi that they are actually a Nazi" argument YET ******* AGAIN.
Yep.

Apparently if you say a Nazi is a bad person you are going to start shooting grannies for telling their grandson they are the most handsome kid in the world.
__________________
If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 06:32 AM   #103
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
 
TurkeysGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
Interesting piece, and some refreshing honesty here for someone who has a job on legacy media.

Quote:
"'Great replacement theory' gets people killed and yet you now have Tucker Carlson defending it, promoting it, mainstreaming it. And elected Republicans are now following in his footsteps."

My deep dive into 'great replacement theory.'
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/stat...09509711130630

We don't have to pretend we don't know how this kind of rhetoric ends. Carlson and his fans are ethnonationalists and fascists and they are dangerous. Cancelling them, if possible, seems like an incredibly positive solution. More likely a good bit of blood is going to be spilt first, but such are the wages for ignoring the dangers of an increasingly reactionary and radicalized right in this country.

The fascist threat in this country (and abroad) is a 'all hands on deck' emergency. Those downplaying the danger they face are carrying water for those that desire to commit genocide, and it is becoming increasingly noncredible that they don't know it the longer this goes on.
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey

Last edited by TurkeysGhost; 29th September 2021 at 06:35 AM.
TurkeysGhost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 06:36 AM   #104
d4m10n
Penultimate Amazing
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 11,901
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
So, that will be no then
Not exactly, no.

You seem to want someone sacked on the word of a random person on the street, someone who didn't say whether he was assenting to a paraphrased version or an exact quotation. This is witch hunt mentality, no time to stop and get the facts straight.

The idea of people wanting other people to stay in their own neighborhoods isn't unusual or necessarily related to racial animus. In the ½ sq. mi. where I live we've two distinct neighborhoods, Trails (Original) and Trails North. They've got different neighborhood associations and amenities, and sometimes people get in a tizzy when folks go from one to the other to use facilities which their HOA doesn't support or maintain. I doubt anyone would say "back to your hood" (hardly anyone around here listens to Pooh Shiesty) but the sentiment is basically the same.
__________________
“Knowledge is Power; France is Bacon.”

Last edited by d4m10n; 29th September 2021 at 06:49 AM.
d4m10n is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 06:40 AM   #105
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 53,184
Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Says the person comparing others to nazis.
But of course never calls the white supremacists, holocaust deniers and the like nazis for some reason.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 09:22 AM   #106
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What a load of garbage. There are plenty of people out there in the UK and the USA that self-identify as Nazis, that want to carry on the policies that the Nazis have always promulgated.
Sure. How do you propose to limit the torches and pitchforks to ONLY self-declared nazis?

Are there other beliefs that you find odious enough to advocate for extrajudicial punishments?
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 09:25 AM   #107
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Interesting piece, and some refreshing honesty here for someone who has a job on legacy media.



https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/stat...09509711130630

We don't have to pretend we don't know how this kind of rhetoric ends. Carlson and his fans are ethnonationalists and fascists and they are dangerous. Cancelling them, if possible, seems like an incredibly positive solution. More likely a good bit of blood is going to be spilt first, but such are the wages for ignoring the dangers of an increasingly reactionary and radicalized right in this country.

The fascist threat in this country (and abroad) is a 'all hands on deck' emergency. Those downplaying the danger they face are carrying water for those that desire to commit genocide, and it is becoming increasingly noncredible that they don't know it the longer this goes on.
Are you aware that you're advocating for civil war and murder?

Seriously, how blind can a person be to not understand that the approach their preaching is completely and utterly fascist in nature?
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 09:30 AM   #108
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
 
TurkeysGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Are you aware that you're advocating for civil war and murder?

Seriously, how blind can a person be to not understand that the approach their preaching is completely and utterly fascist in nature?
Since you're so sharp at reading murderous intent in a statement, what do you make of Tucker Carlson preaching that ethnic replacement is a dire threat to this country?
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey
TurkeysGhost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 09:34 AM   #109
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
"You want to give rid of Fascists? You know who else wants to get rid of people? That's right Fascists! Which makes you a Fascists!" is such a stupid argument.

Everyone who doesn't understand the problem of the "Paradox of Tolerance" get out of both the discussion and the society please.

//ETA: And totally unrelated but **** "Fascists" being such a goddamn hard word to spell over and over...
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 09:37 AM   #110
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
 
TurkeysGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"You want to give rid of Fascists? You know who else wants to get rid of people? That's right Fascists! Which makes you a Fascists!" is such a stupid argument.

Everyone who doesn't understand the problem of the "Paradox of Tolerance" get out of both the discussion and the society please.

//ETA: And totally unrelated but **** "Fascists" being such a goddamn hard word to spell over and over...
To be fair, doing nothing while this country slips into fascism would be very orderly. Sure, there would be state and political violence at mass scale, but it would be organized and only happen to those that broke the rules. After a while you wouldn't even notice the things you lost.

Doing anything to stop this would be awfully noisy and chaotic, and we can't have that.
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey
TurkeysGhost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 10:11 AM   #111
tyr_13
Penultimate Amazing
 
tyr_13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 18,090
Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
"You want to give rid of Fascists? You know who else wants to get rid of people? That's right Fascists! Which makes you a Fascists!" is such a stupid argument.

Everyone who doesn't understand the problem of the "Paradox of Tolerance" get out of both the discussion and the society please.

//ETA: And totally unrelated but **** "Fascists" being such a goddamn hard word to spell over and over...
It's even dumber than that.

'You can't use the same freedoms the fascists use in order to oppose the fascists which is what I'm using to oppose you right now, because that could lead to murder which the fascists have already been doing.'

It's hypocrisy2 in addition to being wrong2.
__________________
Circled nothing is still nothing.
"Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel
Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong
tyr_13 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 10:18 AM   #112
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Since you're so sharp at reading murderous intent in a statement, what do you make of Tucker Carlson preaching that ethnic replacement is a dire threat to this country?
You're going to have to provide a link with full context before I can opine in any way.
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 10:19 AM   #113
Emily's Cat
Rarely prone to hissy-fits
 
Emily's Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: The Wettest Desert on Earth
Posts: 21,505
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
It's even dumber than that.

'You can't use the same freedoms the fascists use in order to oppose the fascists which is what I'm using to oppose you right now, because that could lead to murder which the fascists have already been doing.'

It's hypocrisy2 in addition to being wrong2.
Two wrongs don't make a right.

If the fascists are already murdering people, then they are criminals and should be treated as such.

Murdering them in retaliation doesn't make you better, it just makes you a murderer too.
__________________
The distance between the linguistic dehumanization of a people and their actual suppression and extermination is not great; it is but a small step. - Haig Bosmajian
Emily's Cat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 10:22 AM   #114
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
 
TurkeysGhost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 35,043
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Two wrongs don't make a right.

If the fascists are already murdering people, then they are criminals and should be treated as such.

Murdering them in retaliation doesn't make you better, it just makes you a murderer too.
Yeah, that sounds bad. Maybe us good people should decide we don't want to associate with such bad actors. Maybe we should identify and ostracize all these people wanting to commit political based murders. Probably be a good idea to raise a stink whenever some ghoul went of TV advocating a policy of ethnic cleansing.
__________________
Previously known as SuburbanTurkey
TurkeysGhost is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 10:24 AM   #115
lobosrul5
Philosopher
 
lobosrul5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 7,349
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Two wrongs don't make a right.

If the fascists are already murdering people, then they are criminals and should be treated as such.

Murdering them in retaliation doesn't make you better, it just makes you a murderer too.
You'll need to provide a link showing where murdering fascists is being suggested as a solution. I just haven't seen it here.
lobosrul5 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 10:31 AM   #116
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Oh ah... the rain in Spain falls mainly on the plans. A stitch in time saves 9. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. A watched pot never boils.

Stopping a wrong is not wrong, so you don't have to factor it into some thought terminating truism.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 10:47 AM   #117
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
It's even dumber than that.

'You can't use the same freedoms the fascists use in order to oppose the fascists which is what I'm using to oppose you right now, because that could lead to murder which the fascists have already been doing.'

It's hypocrisy2 in addition to being wrong2.
Not to beat this drum yet again but this also sounds a lot like the "I can't ignore you engaging the troll, so you have to ignore the troll" thing which I can't stand.

This fits in well with my observation that among this... type of people it's seen as better to have no standards (intellectual, moral, ethical, legal, whatever) then it is have standards and commit the Cardinal Sin of not living up to a 100% strawman, super-literal, no accounting for context version of them.

Here's how their thought process seems to works.

1. Someone tells them anything. This triggers the "How dare you tell me what to think!" subroutine. The idea that someone else has given them information they don't have offends them on a deep level and it drives them crazy. So much of their personal identity is wrapped up in "thinking for themselves" that they have started to actively rejected external information.

2. They immediately start looking for reasons the other person is a "hypocrite." And the way they do this is take the person's values, create a hyper-strawman version of them, find an incident where the person didn't live up to that version of their "standards.

For instance. AOC is actually pretty poor for a member of Congress, but she does make a halfway decent living, drives a fairly nice car, stuff like that. I mean just living in DC is goddamn expensive so I'm sure on a literal level she does throw around more money than average. But AOC is pretty far on the Left and speaks out a lot on class and wage disparity and the ultrawealthy. So the fact that AOC drives a Tesla means she's a... HYPOCRITE while a Republican Congressman worth many, many times more isn't. She is demonized for having standards. If you don't have standards you can never be a hypocrite, never be pretentious, never have to be taken down a peg, can't ever be "not as smart as you think you are" and all those other faults that these people focus on. The only sin you can commit to these people is aiming high and not making it. Wallow in the gutter and you can never let anyone down.

Now me, I operate much more on the "The pot can call the kettle black and the kettle can still be black" side of things. Hypocrisy is certainly an annoying personal trait but it doesn't override actual facts. Not matter the pot and kettles opinion of each other's blackness the RGB and Luminosity values of said pot and said kettle are verifiable facts that exist indendenatly. If I point a DataColor ColorReader at the pot and it returns an RGB value of #000000 the pot is black and the kettle's opinion is no longer needed or matters. The pot, the kettle, or anyone else can be hypocritical about the color of the pot or kettle they want, the facts don't change.

A person who says global warming is a problem and drives a nice car is STILL ******* CORRECT THAT GLOBAL WARMING IS A PROBLEM. Class Disparage isn't not a thing just because AOC doesn't live in a cardboard box and take the bus.

This is why discussions with them always have to take place in some fantasy world they are making up. They never want to discuss events as they actually happened but alternate timelines they are making up in the brain where they can control all the variables.

That's why we have a dozen threads at random point on this board where there's one person who on top of a hill going "If you ignore all the reasons I'm wrong and judge my argument solely on my alternative universe version of events then you'll have to admit I'm right."
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

Last edited by JoeMorgue; 29th September 2021 at 11:34 AM.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 10:58 AM   #118
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Sure. How do you propose to limit the torches and pitchforks to ONLY self-declared nazis?

Are there other beliefs that you find odious enough to advocate for extrajudicial punishments?
Extrajudicial? What on earth are you getting confused about now?
__________________
If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 11:00 AM   #119
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Are you aware that you're advocating for civil war and murder?

Seriously, how blind can a person be to not understand that the approach their preaching is completely and utterly fascist in nature?
Nope that is what anyone saying they are a Nazi is advocating for, that is why it should be illegal to be a Nazi, it is like any other terrorist ideology.

It is not being fascist to resist those trying to murder your fellow citizens.
__________________
If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th September 2021, 11:01 AM   #120
JoeMorgue
Self Employed
Remittance Man
 
JoeMorgue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 46,649
Again one day, God willing, I will find a woman who loves me as much as Internet Free Speech Advocates love Nazis.

You will get fewer Free Speech Advocates to run screeching out of the woodwork at you if you actually go "I'm against Free Speech" then you will if you are against Nazis.
__________________
"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.
JoeMorgue is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:17 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.