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31st December 2021, 11:31 PM | #201 |
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Let's be honest here: "Good" and "Bad" are often subjective terms. In this forum, the default is that conservative views and people are generally "bad".
People often make disparaging remarks about others, primarily because of their political affiliation and views. I see this whole "good" and "bad" as more of the "us vs. them" attitude, in many cases. Especially around here. You can't really tell me it is ok to wish death or suffering upon someone if you are a Dem, but it is not ok to do it if you are a conservative. That all comes back to this subjective realm of what defines good and bad. I mean, think of this: I have been accused of voting for Trump, and even accused of being a Christian, here...apparently those things would make me a "bad" person. Imagine how dumb it would sound if I were accusing people of voting for Biden and being atheists. But that is this little world. The hypocrisy level is through the roof. And some people don't like to hear it. |
31st December 2021, 11:33 PM | #202 |
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is it bad to claim that the election was stolen when it clearly wasn't?
or is that good? |
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31st December 2021, 11:42 PM | #203 |
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It is a false claim. I think that many people believe it to be true, though. I wouldn't call it "good", but I wouldn't characterize everyone who believes it as being a "bad" person.
Again, though, we were talking primarily about a war of ugly words. So, in my mind, if you decide these are bad people based upon such a thing, and you make distasteful remarks about them, you should expect the same, and possibly worse in return, when they deem something you do as being wrong. You don't get to whine and cry about it. You've already played your hand, virtue-wise. |
31st December 2021, 11:44 PM | #204 |
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"Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future." - Oscar Wilde |
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1st January 2022, 12:04 AM | #205 |
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So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
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1st January 2022, 12:09 AM | #206 |
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That's obviously true, but it's still possible to define these terms by an objective measure (number of people harmed, say) and to compare the policies and actions of different political parties using that measure.
Quote:
Quote:
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1st January 2022, 12:12 AM | #207 |
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Democrats, in the person of Al Gore, had a very solid claim to have their election stolen. But Gore believed that trust in elections was more important than winning.
mower, we have a majority of Republican who think winning is more important. It takes a special kind of effort to "both side" what is going on today. |
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1st January 2022, 12:15 AM | #208 |
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Yes, that is bad, in my view.
However, if you use that as your excuse to engage in hateful rhetoric, you should expect exactly the same in return when you or those you support are deemed bad by those with opposing views. It sets the tone of the battle. Nobody should be crying foul over it. |
1st January 2022, 12:19 AM | #209 |
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More likely, he simply saw the writing on the wall: he wasn't going to win Florida. This was pretty clear.
Knowing that, he took the opportunity to do the best thing he could...present an image of virtue for the party. Your claim is the typical Dem game: "We did this because we are so virtuous!". Ignoring political reality in the process. |
1st January 2022, 12:33 AM | #210 |
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So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
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1st January 2022, 01:10 AM | #211 |
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the facts are different. and your argument seems to be that doing virtuous things for bad reasons is worse (or at least equivalent) than doing bad things for virtuous reasons. but I guess even you agree that Gore had a much better claim of having been robbed of his Presidency than Trump has, right? |
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1st January 2022, 01:11 AM | #212 |
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1st January 2022, 01:39 AM | #213 |
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thanks for that.
coming from a sense that Republicans already stole an election from them, Democrats are extra sensitive to current efforts to undermine the legitimacy of a fair one, and doubly worried about Republicans rigging future elections. given the rhetoric used by most Republicans and right-wing talking heads, and efforts we see Red States make, these worries seem far from unfounded. |
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“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
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1st January 2022, 07:57 AM | #214 |
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1st January 2022, 11:22 AM | #215 |
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A good idea would be to read all of the questions and comments.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=208 |
3rd January 2022, 08:40 AM | #216 |
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Person A murders 10 people in the street.
Person B jaywalks. Warp12 is saying that both people are criminals. He is correct.... He's also claiming both people are equally "wrong." |
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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3rd January 2022, 08:42 AM | #217 |
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Close. He's saying "I'm saying something obviously stupid and wrong to an insane level and I'm going to make sure the discussion stays trapped at talking about THAT instead of the topic all under the guise of determining where the line is."
Being THAT wrong is an intentional flex, not simply being wrong. |
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3rd January 2022, 02:54 PM | #218 |
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The attorney general of New York state has subpoenaed Donald Trump Jr and Ivanka Trump as part of its fraud inquiry into Trump’s businesses, the New York Times reported on Monday, citing a court document.
The document was filed by lawyers for Trump in response to Letitia James’s decision to subpoena the former president himself. Trump alleges that James’s investigation is politically motivated. The Times said the subpoenas for Ivanka Trump and Donald Trump Jr “were served on 1 December, according to a person with knowledge of the matter”. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...torney-general |
3rd January 2022, 03:05 PM | #219 |
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3rd January 2022, 03:55 PM | #220 |
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That sounds like a candidate responding to public pressure to take principled actions. If that starts happening a lot, I'm not going to complain much if they're doing it to get votes for their party instead of because they're virtuous in their sincere heart. That's kind of how democracy is supposed to work in a world of flawed individuals.
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3rd January 2022, 08:15 PM | #221 |
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Why bother? |
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3rd January 2022, 10:21 PM | #222 |
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Still works, really.
Criminal harassment is a thing, after all, though legal specifics can vary a bit from state to state. What Warp12 is trying to bring up to somehow say that people deserve it is neither a crime nor remotely sensible, except as an attempt at whataboutism and rationalization. It's more along the lines of "If you or anyone who can otherwise be reasonably categorized with you is perceived to have engaged in negative, heartless speech, no matter how justified or how it's done, everything is then on the table for those who take issue with such, no matter how unjustified, no matter how they choose to act, and no matter if the recipient of the revenge actually did anything or not." Childish and unreasonable, but understandable in light of human nature. Utterly pointless other than as an attempt to shift responsibility away from those who deserve to be held responsible, of course, because even if "the left" were somehow actually composed entirely of pure saints, those with motive would still be happy to sling stones first, often, and claim justification even if "the left" ignored their attacks completely and embraced them anyways. "The left" would just be treated as simps and morons and walked all over. If it's a damned if you do and damned if you don't, I'm fine with being a flawed human that tries to make things better overall for all of us, rather than justifying, rationalizing, or embracing a road to anarchy and destruction. |
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So sayeth the crazy little dragon. |
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4th January 2022, 02:17 AM | #223 |
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Incorrect.
It is more along the lines of: "I hit you with a baseball bat. But, you stabbed me in return. See, you are in the wrong." Personally, if someone says, "I hope your kids die in front of you", I don't see that as a big deal. As I have said, look around at the comments here in the politics section. That is a nothingburger. And, I have already mentioned a recent instance of threats being levelled at a GOP supporter. So, as I say, it's all part of the game these days. The whole "Dems are victims" thing is not flying with me. |
4th January 2022, 03:04 AM | #224 |
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To me it seems more like "You commit crimes, I condemn you for committing crimes, you condemn me for committing mostly imaginary crimes, I condemn you in stronger language ... "
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4th January 2022, 06:14 AM | #225 |
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But what are they doing? There's a qualitative difference between Americans and Trump supporters. One is attempting to prevent an authoritarian take over of the country and one is trying to steal the next election. The Trump supporters are a domestic enemy of the Constitution. If the result is Trump or one of the dogs vying to be first in line to hump his leg isn't the next president, well, omelets and eggs.
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4th January 2022, 07:09 AM | #226 |
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We’re descending into pedantry here, but…
…here’s the wording of the penalty for jaywalking in Florida: “ (19)A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable pursuant to chapter 318 as either a pedestrian violation or, if the infraction resulted from the operation of a vehicle, as a moving violation.” So there’s a statute (law) against jaywalking. If you jaywalk, you have violated the law, but it’s not treated criminally. Is that pedantic (and confusing) enough? |
4th January 2022, 01:21 PM | #227 |
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Being the victim of genocidal atrocities does not give you free reign to commit your own genocidal atrocities. When Republican politicians were young, they were the kids who watched James Bond movies and said "I want to grow up to be just like [insert name of villain here]." |
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4th January 2022, 01:27 PM | #228 |
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1. He'd never do that. 2. Okay but he's not currently doing it. 3. Okay but he's not currently technically doing it. 4. Okay but everyone does it. 5. He's doing it, we can't stop him, no point in complaining about it. 6. We all knew he was going to do it which... makes it okay somehow. 7. It's perfectly fine that's he's doing it. |
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4th January 2022, 01:29 PM | #229 |
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Ah guys read between the lines.
They are going to leave Facebook and Twitter without trashing it on their way out. There's a "and make sure nobody else can enjoy them before you leave" message in their that ain't too hard to see. Again this do not end with them quietly going away and forming their own microcosm. |
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"If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong. |
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4th January 2022, 03:19 PM | #230 |
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4th January 2022, 03:24 PM | #231 |
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Trump speech Jan 6! (in two days) He is going to win that 2020 election yet.
Republicans just can't get rid of him until well into 2025. |
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Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh! Politics blog: https://esapolitics.blogspot.com/ Parody: http://karireport.blogspot.com/ Poll: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...proval-rating/ |
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4th January 2022, 04:38 PM | #232 |
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I can't find a text copy and I don't want to post the jpeg, but this is one statement that was obviously thumbed by Trump himself. The petty spite, the single syllable words, the repetitiveness, etc.
BREAKING NEWS!! (really) He cancelled it. I for one was probably going to watch with a concerned terror. |
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Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting. |
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4th January 2022, 08:00 PM | #233 |
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I am kind of split on this...
On one hand, giving Stubby McBonespurs any sort of platform to spew his nonsense is a source for all sorts of disinformation. On the other hand, having him engage in the sort of unhinged "election was stolen" rhetoric could be a problem for some republican politicians who are in more moderate areas. (Reminding voters about the unhinged nature of republican leadership, and their unwillingness to actually tackle the issues might cause problems for the republicans in the suburbs.) (The fact that he actually canceled the speech suggests it might be the latter.) |
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5th January 2022, 05:39 AM | #234 |
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Ground hog day is Feb 2. We could have Trump yearly come out of Mar a Lago and give an "election was stolen" speech. If he sees his shadow, then we get six more weeks of rants. If not, then he is done for the year.
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Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh! Politics blog: https://esapolitics.blogspot.com/ Parody: http://karireport.blogspot.com/ Poll: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...proval-rating/ |
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5th January 2022, 06:46 AM | #235 |
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Brian Stelter, CNN's media reporter said last night that the event was going to be poorly attended by press. Fox and a few of the other anti-American outlets were going to be there that was about it. He reported it in a four shot panel on Don Lemon but I haven't seen ink on this yet.
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5th January 2022, 06:54 AM | #236 |
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Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting. |
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5th January 2022, 08:58 AM | #237 |
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The Trumps (you know, the people who are supposedly billionaires) are finding new ways to make money...
From: Politico The former U.S. first lady announced...she will hold an auction called The Head of State Collection featuring three items: the “iconic broad-brimmed, one-of-a-kind hat” that she wore when Emmanuel and Brigitte Macron visited the White House...a watercolor of her wearing the same hat by French artist Marc-Antoine Coulon; and a digital version of that same artwork (in the form of a non-fungible token, or NFT). Is it just me, or does it seem weird (and a little cheesy) that the former first family is going after such sales (which would seem rather "tiny" for people that are supposedly billionaires). |
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Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot |
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5th January 2022, 09:39 AM | #238 |
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“Don’t blame me. I voted for Kodos.” |
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5th January 2022, 10:12 AM | #239 |
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My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie. |
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5th January 2022, 12:08 PM | #240 |
a flimsy character...perfidious and despised
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Being the victim of genocidal atrocities does not give you free reign to commit your own genocidal atrocities. When Republican politicians were young, they were the kids who watched James Bond movies and said "I want to grow up to be just like [insert name of villain here]." |
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