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30th January 2022, 06:02 AM | #1 |
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Candace Owens says Apollo was a hoax
Candace Owens tweeted
@RealCandaceO Jan 28 Now for some light-hearted fun. What’s the one “conspiracy theory” that no matter what anyone says you believe is true. Mine is that the moon landing in 1969 was completely faked. Just nothing about it makes sense. Especially NASA “accidentally erasing” the original footage. The biggest thing for me is the fuel tank size, plus the live broadcast with audio from the moon. In 1969. I just cannot. Def believe this one too! And heard it from an extremely reliable source… Quote Tweet Lauren Chen @TheLaurenChen Jan 28 Government knows there's aliens |
30th January 2022, 06:05 AM | #2 |
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The only thing I agree about is that it is mind-boggling that they would have not preserved the original footage.
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30th January 2022, 08:33 AM | #3 |
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30th January 2022, 08:34 AM | #4 |
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30th January 2022, 08:38 AM | #5 |
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30th January 2022, 08:39 AM | #6 |
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30th January 2022, 08:39 AM | #7 |
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Was she wearing a pant-suit when she made that remark?
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30th January 2022, 08:41 AM | #8 |
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30th January 2022, 08:41 AM | #9 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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30th January 2022, 08:42 AM | #10 |
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But that would mean that Candace Owens is an idiot.
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30th January 2022, 08:43 AM | #11 |
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On the one hand I agree with her. Nothing about it makes sense to her no matter what anyone tells her. If she had any self-awareness she would realize how much it undercuts her assumption that she has anything of value to tell anyone else. Can anyone trust her analytical skills when she so proudly trumpets her inability to learn?
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30th January 2022, 08:50 AM | #12 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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30th January 2022, 08:57 AM | #13 |
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The only "original footage" that's been lost was the original tape of the TV broadcast of the Apollo 11 EVA. It probably wasn't considered important because it wasn't NTSC compatible, having been broadcast with the black & white Westinghouse camera because its lower bandwidth didn't require the crew to set up the high gain antenna during the short EVA.
We still have tapes of the NTSC conversion for broadcast. Conspiracy theorists like to point to the erasure of telemetry recordings as somehow suspicious, but those recordings were of low significance, really, being just days and days of telemetry about voltages, and tank pressures, and cabin conditions etcetera. During the Landsat program, it was discovered that the new magnetic tapes were coming apart and gumming up the record heads because the industry had switched to a new binding agent that was failing after some time. This was a problem for the music recording industry as well. They couldn't get reliable tapes quickly enough, so they reused a lot of old tapes from the archives, because it was critical that they be able to record all the expensive data streaming in from Landsat. This is the source of the typical "they erased all the footage!" claims. All of the real data - the scientific data, photos, moving pictures and TV broadcasts, as well as all the voice communications - are preserved. |
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30th January 2022, 09:05 AM | #14 |
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30th January 2022, 09:21 AM | #15 |
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30th January 2022, 09:23 AM | #16 |
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It wasn't compatible with anything. For Apollo 11 the television signal was embedded in the telemetry. You literally needed an Ampex telemetry recorder, properly configured, and a bunch of custom, one-off television equipment to view it. It was critical to read that out into a standard format, using the one-off equipment one time, and then that standard-format recording is considered the "original footage."
Today those recorders are exceptionally rare and I'm not sure today whether any of them are in working order. Even in their time, they were built-to-order machines. I know some of the extant telemetry tapes from some of the unmanned early probes have been read out, but that's more of a novelty than the expected operation.
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30th January 2022, 09:35 AM | #17 |
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You are not right. The slow-scan TV format is not just another standard. It was literally invented for one -- and only one -- Apollo mission, and then discarded as future missions would use a more standard process. Because that process and its custom-made equipment was going to be discarded, it was essential to read out the telemetry into a standard format. That copy, in the standard format, was the archival copy, and it still exists.
If, decades later, someone figures out a different way to read out the data, that a doesn't suddenly make someone decades earlier short-sighted. The previous read-out process was necessarily lossy, but it was the best available at the time. Yes, all things being equal it would have been no problem to just put the tapes in a warehouse. But all things were not equal and there was suddenly a desperate need for blank tape. At the time that was the right decision to make, far more important than preserving data in an unreadable format against the possibility that someone in the future would invent a different way of reading it. The footage was preserved at the time in the only and best way possible. |
30th January 2022, 09:42 AM | #18 |
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30th January 2022, 09:43 AM | #19 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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30th January 2022, 09:44 AM | #20 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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30th January 2022, 09:48 AM | #21 |
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30th January 2022, 09:54 AM | #22 |
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30th January 2022, 09:55 AM | #23 |
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30th January 2022, 10:05 AM | #24 |
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30th January 2022, 10:10 AM | #25 |
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Sigh. I was trying to avoid the technical aspects because he has no chance of remotely understanding a single bit of it (haha). You get that pun, he does not.
I tried to avoid it, but if we must delve in to the technicalities, so be it. For the...I don't remember how many times anymore. |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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30th January 2022, 10:10 AM | #26 |
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Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive? ...love and buttercakes... |
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30th January 2022, 10:14 AM | #27 |
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I didn't say "potentially usable." I said "usable."
We're not going to ignore the nuances just so you can drive the question to a harsh binary and have your "gotcha!" moment. The argument is that the decision to reuse the Apollo 11 telemetry tapes was so apparently unwise as to be suspicious. Insisting on framing it in hindsight is artificial sustenance for that argument. The question has two parts. The first is whether the people who made the decision to erase the original data considered it important, which includes the question of whether it was usable in that form. The second is whether the decision should be framed as a conscious decision to erase original data, or whether it might have been a reluctant lesser-of-two-evils decision. That the original data no longer exists is simply an unfortunate fact. Whether that should objectively rise to the boggling of the mind you expressed earlier is up for debate. It's not a "gotcha!" question. |
30th January 2022, 10:16 AM | #28 |
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I believe the technicalities are an important part of the question. They frame the value of the original telemetry data to the people who made the decision to reuse the media. It doesn't matter whether Warp12 can or wants to understand those details. If he wants to have a simplistic understanding of the problem, then the boggling of his mind can be written off as a simplistic judgment. I'm giving him the opportunity -- should he choose -- have having a more enlightened opinion.
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30th January 2022, 10:18 AM | #29 |
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Originally Posted by JayUtah
The important consideration is that somehow, amazingly, that data was lost. |
30th January 2022, 10:24 AM | #30 |
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I'm not "burying" it. I'm framing it in the proper circumstantial detail. The disagreement is not over the facts. The disagreement is over the interpretation of the facts and their implications for the authenticity of the Apollo project. Your knee-jerk, armchair analysis ignores important details.
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30th January 2022, 10:26 AM | #31 |
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A lot of us do find it stunning, whether justifiably or not. Kind of like the House of Representatives saying "oh, we don't know where the original Constitution went. Probably wrote over it during a paper shortage. No prob though, we made copies". True though it may be, it sounds absurd to a layperson.
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30th January 2022, 10:28 AM | #32 |
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For the Apollo11 EVA, yes. They haven't found the original tapes, to my knowledge, and been able to say, "this was it, it's erased", so it can't be confirmed destroyed. It's possible it's still in existence, but no one knows. The only reason it was searched for was in the hope that it might offer a sharper image quality, but that wasn't guaranteed.
The rest of the photography and transmissions are preserved. Every 70mm and 16mm negative, all the TV broadcast tapes, and the tapes of voice communications. As has been pointed out, the actual broadcast of that first EVA couldn't be used anywhere else, so only the NTSC conversion was considered important. At this time, NASA wasn't employing historians. The engineers were more concerned about getting the crews back safely, and getting the scientific data, in that order. The fact that a piece of original data of very limited usability was overlooked in favor of a converted direct copy that could be used anywhere, and showed the same images, isn't the least bit mind boggling when one simply considers the complexity of a decade long project and the greater concerns of engineers and technical directors who had men's lives in their hands. Candace Owens is stupidly parroting a common, but utterly ******** misapprehension repeatedly propagated by ignorant, self-styled "experts". |
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
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30th January 2022, 10:34 AM | #33 |
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30th January 2022, 10:39 AM | #34 |
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I used to have a pdf of a really cook book about the Apollo TV broadcasts, but I haven't been able to find it again, so far. It had a lot of cool details about the various cameras, antennae, formats, technical aspects of the cameras, the workings of the DSN (including signal routing to NASA facilities) etcetera. And all broken down by specific Apollo missions.
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
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30th January 2022, 10:44 AM | #35 |
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Telemetry tapes from completed missions are not generally important. They're useful while the mission is ongoing, and possibly for a short time afterward, to diagnose faults. But they aren't considered a valuable historical record. The reason they aren't routinely reused is because -- as I said before -- the recorders are hard on the tape. Telemetry records use lots of heads and run at a high speed. It's almost always preferable to use new tapes.
Old tapes can be reused, if needed. But they can't be recycled and it's cheaper to store them than to destroy them.
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It both cases the original data will have to be transformed. The first transformation process resulted in a standard NTSC video signal we have now. Assuming the tape can be read at all, a new read-out of the telemetry might contain more detail and more gray tones, but -- as you say -- there is no guarantee of that. And it's just another transformation of the original data.
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30th January 2022, 10:48 AM | #36 |
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30th January 2022, 10:51 AM | #37 |
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30th January 2022, 10:55 AM | #38 |
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30th January 2022, 10:56 AM | #39 |
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Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
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30th January 2022, 11:00 AM | #40 |
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