|
Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today. |
30th January 2022, 05:23 PM | #81 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,095
|
Well, there’s not much to argue about. It’s true that Owens really is profoundly stupid. It’s true that it’s a minor too-bad that the telemetry tapes with the video encoding had to be reused, but it’s also true that all the Apollo 11 video footage still exists, if in a slightly less sharp form. It’s also true that the video footage was a very small part of the imagery returned by Apollo 11, and a really really tiny part of the imagery returned by all the Apollo missions. Finally, it’s also true that imagery itself was just part of the overall Apollo record.
But for me, the takeaway of this thread is that Owens really is profoundly stupid. |
30th January 2022, 05:25 PM | #82 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,096
|
|
30th January 2022, 05:31 PM | #83 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
|
30th January 2022, 05:41 PM | #84 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
|
30th January 2022, 05:43 PM | #85 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 6,332
|
|
30th January 2022, 05:47 PM | #86 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wales
Posts: 31,398
|
|
__________________
"There ain't half been some clever bastards" - Ian Dury |
|
30th January 2022, 05:53 PM | #87 |
Troublesome Passenger
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 21,844
|
|
__________________
Like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore, So do our minutes hasten to their end . . . WS |
|
30th January 2022, 05:56 PM | #88 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,096
|
|
30th January 2022, 05:57 PM | #89 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,096
|
|
30th January 2022, 05:58 PM | #90 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Port Townsend, Washington
Posts: 39,057
|
|
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant. |
|
30th January 2022, 06:51 PM | #91 |
Featherless biped
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Aporia
Posts: 26,431
|
There are no smilies on it. You are the one completely mischaracterising the post.
https://mobile.twitter.com/RealCanda...gs-were-a-hoax |
30th January 2022, 06:52 PM | #92 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,095
|
She deliberately wrote things. Those things were profoundly stupid. Sure, we know she’s dishonest as well, given her other dull-witted trolling, but I’m under no obligation to give her the benefit of the doubt that this time she isn’t just as profoundly dumb as any other ignoramus talking about “the moon landing in 1969”, rather than just having a laugh at something she doesn’t know anything at all about.
|
30th January 2022, 06:53 PM | #93 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: The Antimemetics Division
Posts: 69,914
|
Learning the details of what they did and how they did it was always way more exciting than trying to find excuses not to believe in it, or to **** on it.
I know I get called a contrarian in certain curmudgeonly quarters (and the irony is not lost on me). But really I'm a romantic. You start to **** on something, I start looking for redeeming qualities and mitigating circumstances. |
__________________
There is no Antimemetics Division. |
|
30th January 2022, 07:08 PM | #94 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,095
|
|
30th January 2022, 09:24 PM | #95 |
Muse
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 651
|
Oh yes. That was a good forum. Just stay away from their political threads. When I mentioned that some of the "evidence" they were using to support a couple of their claims was equivalent to the logically fallacious and otherwise unjustified "evidence" CT-ists used, I received backlash in a manner also similar to what a CT-ist would display. Eventually, the owner banned me, with no prior suspension or actual violation of the rules. It was a lesson for me as to how easily the critical mind (the site owner's in this case) can become disrupted by emotion.
I now receive this message if I try to log on: Screenshot (10).jpg Okay, done whining. Sorry for any hi-jack. |
30th January 2022, 10:26 PM | #96 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 25,304
|
Unfortunately, "only kidding" is the catch-cry of right wing morons (including some right here on this forum) who want to say something they are serious about but want cover in case they are ridiculed for it.
Actual skeptics and critical thinkers here have been burned by the bull-**** these half-wits spew so often that they are no longer willing to cut them any slack. |
__________________
If you're not a scientist but you think you've destroyed the foundation of a vast scientific edifice with 10 minutes of Googling, you might want to consider the possibility that you're wrong. Its TRE45ON season... convict the F45CIST!! |
|
31st January 2022, 06:10 AM | #97 |
Dental Floss Tycoon
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,371
|
So when you can't respond to a question without admitting that you were wrong, you simply ignore it and plow ahead as if you weren't wrong - and as if no one else can see you being wrong.
I asked you to point out where anyone had called you an Apollo denier or had claimed that the original slow-scan magnetic tapes still exist. You can't do either, so you have to ignore that question and keep on truckin' as though you have been called an Apollo conspiracy theorist, and as though you just proved anyone wrong by linking to an article that says what others have already told you. We've made it clear that we think Candace Owens' promotion of the Apollo conspiracy theory, earnest or not, is garden variety stupidity. It's also clear that others have engaged you only regarding your statement you find it "mind-boggling" that they would not have preserved the "original footage". -------------------- The above is 155 words, up from the 90 that you declared to be "a lot of words". If 30 seconds of reading time is too challenging, I could make an effort to use smaller words and simpler sentences. |
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
|
31st January 2022, 06:17 AM | #98 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,583
|
Wrong about what? That the most complete data feed (in that aspect) for one of the most notable accomplishments in human history was apparently lost? That it is mind-boggling that this would be allowed to occur? I hope like-minded people aren't in charge of NASA when man sets foot on Mars.
Not sure what you are puffing up about, here. |
31st January 2022, 06:20 AM | #99 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,040
|
It wasn't considered important as all he data is available elsewhere in more accessible formats.
The tapes were never meant to be a part of a permanent record. |
31st January 2022, 06:24 AM | #100 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,583
|
|
31st January 2022, 06:30 AM | #101 |
Dental Floss Tycoon
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,371
|
Wrong about anyone calling you an Apollo conspiracy theorist, and wrong about anyone claiming that the pre NTSC conversion tapes still exist.
To be fair, I don't think it's an actual reading compression issue on your part. You simply can't admit that you were wrong about either of those two auto-crucifixion claims. ---------------- Was that few enough words for you? |
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
|
31st January 2022, 06:31 AM | #102 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,040
|
|
31st January 2022, 06:38 AM | #103 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,583
|
|
31st January 2022, 06:41 AM | #104 | |||
Dental Floss Tycoon
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,371
|
Yeah, 4K Ultra images would be awesome, wouldn't they?
Too bad we'll never have slightly better images than the ones already recovered by the archive team.
|
|||
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
||||
31st January 2022, 06:43 AM | #105 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,096
|
Maybe the critical thinkers left on the forums just interpret right wing statements like autists? It's been going on a long while where the *cough* liberal *cough* posters go on and on about some meaning they infer in some public statement, and then you go over to Republican forums and they aren't taking it like that at all.
|
31st January 2022, 06:51 AM | #106 |
Dental Floss Tycoon
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,371
|
Does he specifically say that you are doing that? The thread was started regarding Owens' idiotic parroting of a CT trope.
Quote:
So what was the point of that post? To express your amusement that you'd found a source confirming what you'd already been told in this thread? |
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
|
31st January 2022, 07:06 AM | #107 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
|
31st January 2022, 07:09 AM | #108 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
Strange that the only people whose minds are boggled about this are conspiracy theorists. Do you really want to throw in with that crowd? Grabbing data from spaceships is in my line of work. I've done it for decades. My mind isn't boggled at all. Old telemetry just isn't that important.
Quote:
|
31st January 2022, 07:23 AM | #109 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
"Implied." I never claimed you were an Apollo conspiracy theorist and you never said you were. Stop trying to be a victim. That you're borrowing one of their talking points is abundantly evident, which is why I asked if you were interested in having a better-informed opinion. It was under the assumption that you didn't want to be identified with conspiracy theorists. I still believe you don't want to be, but it appears you're more interested in tying everything up in knots that understanding why the curators of that data did what they did.
|
31st January 2022, 07:39 AM | #110 | |||
Lackey
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 113,982
|
Would recommend Dutchsteammachine on Youtube, he's done some great video "conversions" to higher res and framerates. E.g.
|
|||
__________________
“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago |
||||
31st January 2022, 07:43 AM | #111 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,096
|
You can see the moment where somebody opens a door on the sound stage and the wind catches the flag at 9min11s
|
31st January 2022, 08:32 AM | #112 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Where the Arrantly Roam
Posts: 26,169
|
Again, speaking on behalf of laypersons: it seems like original Apollo data would be...you know, priceless. Sort of like a copy of the gun that Burr used to shoot Jefferson is not that interesting, but the actual gun is. Genuine piece of history and whatnot.
In a way, NASA's practicality is admirable. Instead of saving junior's baby shoes for posterity, they recycled them to advance their ongoing mission. |
__________________
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" -Mark Twain "Half of what he said meant something else, and the other half didn't mean anything at all" -Rosencrantz, on Hamlet |
|
31st January 2022, 08:41 AM | #113 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 47,040
|
|
31st January 2022, 08:44 AM | #114 |
Dental Floss Tycoon
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,371
|
|
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
|
31st January 2022, 08:50 AM | #115 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 10,096
|
|
31st January 2022, 09:09 AM | #116 | ||
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
The least usable data, you mean. And yes, it was a biggie. When Memorex pulled the rug out from under NASA and the Landsat data needed to be recorded or be lost forever -- in any form -- people had to make some hard choices.
Quote:
|
||
31st January 2022, 09:16 AM | #117 | ||
Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,830
|
It was not 'the purest data'. It was a slightly better TV picture. We have very detailed Hasselblad stills and 16mm footage, and mountains of actual data covering this and all subsequent landings..
Quote:
|
||
__________________
Facts are simple and facts are straight, facts are lazy and facts are late, facts don't come with points of view, facts don't do what I want them to. ************************** Apollo Hoax Debunked |
|||
31st January 2022, 09:52 AM | #118 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 7,583
|
|
31st January 2022, 10:12 AM | #119 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The great American West
Posts: 24,911
|
The operative word is "could." I know about this project. I know the people on it and have followed it for a number of years. They aren't inevitably successful. And back in the day, the ability to do a better readout with digital technology, decades hence, wasn't contemplated. It's not as if NASA destroyed the original data for no good reason. They destroyed it because they were desperate for functional telemetry media and had little other choice.
The original television signal had a low frame rate and a low vertical resolution. Reading it out to NTSC actual up-converts it. However, since the up-conversion used an optical process -- similar to telecines and kinescopes -- there will necessarily be a tone shift. The best they could have hoped for is better gray tones, less contrast.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Now you can either decide to be educated by people who are willing to share their knowledge with you in the hopes of helping you form a more informed opinion, or you can wallow in ignorance and snipe from the sidelines. It's pretty clear at this point what your plan is. |
31st January 2022, 10:12 AM | #120 | ||
Dental Floss Tycoon
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 21,371
|
Nice strawman. No one here has said "no biggie". I doubt there are many Apollo enthusiasts who wouldn't be delighted to hear that an original magnetic tape had been discovered in some dusty box somewhere, and that it hadn't degraded. That would be cool. As cool as when an amateur astronomer found (most likely) the S-IVB from Apollo 12 in solar orbit - or when large pieces of flown Rocketdyne F-1s were found on the Atlantic floor.
But understand that such a discovery wouldn't really show us anything we don't already know. We could, assuming pristine preservation of the tape, get a recording of the EVA TV broadcast that was slightly sharper, with a bit better contrast, than the best available images we now have. And keep in mind that NASA's view of Apollo 11 was somewhat different than the public perception. Most people see Apollo through the eyes of a species with a fetish for firsts. First to climb a mountain peak - first to fly the Atlantic... But, while the historical significance of the first landing was not lost on NASA, Apollo 11 was not regarded as the apex of the Apollo Program. It was, to NASA, the last of the Manned Development Missions, after which the real business of scientifically exploring the moon could begin. Hell, the Apollo 11 EVA lasted only about an hour and a half, whereas Apollo17 was on the surface for three days and performed three EVAs totalling 22 hours.
Quote:
Second, controversial in what way? To the CTists Owens is parroting, the word controversial is very much used in the context of "suspicious" - an implication that something is being obfuscated. If you mean in the context of incompetence, then that's a ridiculous assertion. The Apollo Program was a stunning success. The value of what was preserved far outweighs the value of a (potentially) slightly better quality example of other, still early, recordings of exactly the same event.
|
||
__________________
Counterbalance in the little town of Ridgeview, Ohio. Two people permanently enslaved by the tyranny of fear and superstitution, facing the future with a kind of helpless dread. Two others facing the future with confidence - having escaped one of the darker places of the Twilight Zone. |
|||
Thread Tools | |
|
|