Can the Dems retain the House Speaker??! - Page 9

carlosy · 5th January 2023, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

By the way, and because I never watch the stuff, how is Fox News and Friends reporting this debacle? Truthfully and fully? Without bias?

Betting this is all the Dems fault, according to Fox.

Quick search on google:

Quote:

Hannity asked the Republican congresswoman.

“I understand the frustration. I promise you,” she replied.

“I’m not frustrated,” Hannity interrupted. “You didn’t answer my question.”

“There are more for us than against us,” Boebert continued.

It was the first back-and-forth in a sparring match between the widely watched conservative cable news host and the firebrand Republican congresswoman amid a chaotic race for the House Speakership that has consumed Washington this week.

As Boebert described her displeasure with McCarthy, Hannity pressed her repeatedly, asking, “Who do you want to be speaker of the House?”

“I am willing to have conversations with the Republican conference to come up with a consensus candidate,” she replied.

Later, after Boebert suggested she might nominate former President Trump, who has urged all Republicans to support McCarthy, Hannity scoffed, saying, “Is this a game show? Like we’re gonna pick [Rep.] Jim Jordan [R-Ohio] one day, Trump the other day?”

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/3...s-a-game-show/

Seems like even Fox is not amused about the Rep show.

Gulliver Foyle · 5th January 2023, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

I think part of what we're seeing is probably the inevitable fracturing of the Republican Party's base. There's two factions and they really don't have much in common. First are traditional Republicans, pro-business, fiscally and socially conservative. Second are working class Republicans, not so much focused on fiscal conservatism but socially conservative, searching for simple solutions to complex problems. Almost two years ago a GOP Congress member from Indiana told NPR:

The working class faction explains the rise of Boebert, Gosar, Greene et al. McConnell and I guess even McCarthy represent the more traditional GOP. These emerging working class or trumpist Republicans are too extreme for most traditional Republicans. I think that's what we're seeing in the House. The battle for control of the Republican Party. Pro-business or the party of working class Americans. Which is it going to be? Up until now its been both but that is obviously changing.

I'd love to see Jim Banks' citation for his assertion. Because everything I've read is that the republican vote was as privileged and rich as it ever has been.

autumn1971 · 5th January 2023, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

SO you want one party rule in the US.Nice.

This is a stupid analysis. The Democratic Party consists of a plurality of right-wing conservatives, a bunch of centrists, and a small minority of progressives.

The non-Fascists in the US favor a threeish party system. Being against an actual said-out-loud fascist party does not make one a communist.

Mike! · 5th January 2023, 12:14 PM

And the Eighth try is over before it really gets started.

lobosrul5 · 5th January 2023, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by autumn1971

This is a stupid analysis. The Democratic Party consists of a plurality of right-wing conservatives, a bunch of centrists, and a small minority of progressives.

The non-Fascists in the US favor a threeish party system. Being against an actual said-out-loud fascist party does not make one a communist.

Depends on the split. If the Gop splits and becomes "Reaganists"* and "MAGA" then they never win an election again in the foreseeable future; all non-Fascists should be in favor. If the Dems split between "centrist dem" and "the squad/green alliance" then the GoP will forever be victorious, and all non-Fascists should be against it.

*there are no pre-Reagan actual centrist type GoP people left in national politics

Anyways, the poster you are responding to is wrong. The Dems refusal to compromise with the GoP might be disastrous IMO but its irrelevant to us being a one party State or not.

Norman Alexander · 5th January 2023, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by carlosy

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

By the way, and because I never watch the stuff, how is Fox News and Friends reporting this debacle? Truthfully and fully? Without bias?

Betting this is all the Dems fault, according to Fox.

Quick search on google:

Quote:

Hannity asked the Republican congresswoman.

“I understand the frustration. I promise you,” she replied.

“I’m not frustrated,” Hannity interrupted. “You didn’t answer my question.”

“There are more for us than against us,” Boebert continued.

It was the first back-and-forth in a sparring match between the widely watched conservative cable news host and the firebrand Republican congresswoman amid a chaotic race for the House Speakership that has consumed Washington this week.

As Boebert described her displeasure with McCarthy, Hannity pressed her repeatedly, asking, “Who do you want to be speaker of the House?”

“I am willing to have conversations with the Republican conference to come up with a consensus candidate,” she replied.

Later, after Boebert suggested she might nominate former President Trump, who has urged all Republicans to support McCarthy, Hannity scoffed, saying, “Is this a game show? Like we’re gonna pick [Rep.] Jim Jordan [R-Ohio] one day, Trump the other day?”

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/3...s-a-game-show/

Seems like even Fox is not amused about the Rep show.

Thanks.

And this just reinforces Boebert's idiocy: 20 of her Trumpy faction versus 200 of the McCarthy faction is not "There are more for us than against us". By an order of magnitude. Counting clearly is not one of her strong suits.

Faydra · 5th January 2023, 12:31 PM

Quote of the day: "GOP learns the hard way: Turning the base up too high blows out your speaker."

Donal · 5th January 2023, 12:55 PM

Can someone explain why Boebert is so prominent? She almost got bounced in her first election as an incumbent. Why on earth does she have any leverage at all?

Resume · 5th January 2023, 12:55 PM

He said he'd attempt this.

Quote:

Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) voted for former President Trump for Speaker of the House on Thursday, as the chamber held its seventh vote in three days in an attempt to elect a Speaker.

lobosrul5 · 5th January 2023, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Donal

Can someone explain why Boebert is so prominent? She almost got bounced in her first election as an incumbent. Why on earth does she have any leverage at all?

The crazier the candidate the more money they take in for the GoP.

https://www.coloradopolitics.com/ele...64d11d7a8.html

Norman Alexander · 5th January 2023, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Donal

Can someone explain why Boebert is so prominent? She almost got bounced in her first election as an incumbent. Why on earth does she have any leverage at all?

Loudest Trump Seig Heiling Champion 2022??

acbytesla · 5th January 2023, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Faydra

Quote of the day: "GOP learns the hard way: Turning the base up too high blows out your speaker."

alfaniner · 5th January 2023, 01:21 PM

I wonder if it's just a ploy to try to keep the anniversary of Jan 6 out of the main news cycle? All the holdouts will suddenly change their votes tomorrow, electing McCarthy, and that will be the news lede for a day or so. The media will then have to scrap a lot of anniversary reports and discussions, and change them to "What's Next in the House?" reports.

Gulliver Foyle · 5th January 2023, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

Sweepstake, any one?

I'll throw in a (random) number: 11

42

Upchurch · 5th January 2023, 01:33 PM

So, if no one is swerving from this congressional game of chicken, surely there eventually has to be a crash, right? Staffers go unpaid and eventually leave, etc. Can the House basically just shut down and they stop trying until after the next election?

newyorkguy · 5th January 2023, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by newyorkguy

Quote:

"All of the statistics and polling coming out of the 2020 election show that Donald Trump did better with [working class] voters across the board than any Republican has in my lifetime since Ronald Reagan," Rep. Jim Banks, R-Ind., told NPR.

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

I'd love to see Jim Banks' citation for his assertion. Because everything I've read is that the republican vote was as privileged and rich as it ever has been.

Below is a quote from a Pew Research poll of the 2020 election.

Quote:

White voters without a college degree were critical to Trump’s victory in 2016, when he won the group by 64% to 28%. In 2018, Democrats were able to gain some ground with these voters, earning 36% of the White, non-college vote to Republicans’ 61%. In 2020, Biden roughly maintained Democrats’ 2018 share among the group...But Trump’s share of the vote among this group – who represented 42% of the total electorate this year – was nearly identical to his vote share in 2016 (65%). Pew Reseach link

I don't want to derail this thread, so to bring it back on topic, again I think what we're seeing is, a GOP that is divided against itself. I think there clearly are two factions within the GOP, and have been since Nixon began attracting Dixiecrats in 1968. It's an enemy of my enemy kind of alliance.

Norman Alexander · 5th January 2023, 02:03 PM

Boebert, nominating some nonentity in Round 9:

Quote:

“We need to get to a point where we start evaluating what life after Kevin McCarthy looks like..."

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...08fc001645302f

It's Democrat, dear. Not you.

Segnosaur · 5th January 2023, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

Re: Democrats supporting McCarthy to prevent budget problems...

Quote:

2 problems:

- It still requires that the republicans act as Trustworthy individuals when they should not be trusted....

- It assumes that McCarthy can actually follow through. (After all, I am sure he has promised a lot of things to his own supporters, and reneging on those deals to get Democrats to support him might lead to a revolt)

I think this is about the last I'll say on this specific subject for now...

Why? Because not doing so will result in catastrophic consequences for all Americans... and actually every economy tied to ours, so almost everywhere.

I totally agree... failure to address the debt ceiling, or pass a proper budget, would be horrible for the economy and society in general. Probably plunge the US (as well as other countries) into recession. I don't think we disagree about that at all.

Where we do disagree is in our optimism that McCarthy would "do the right thing".

You seem seem to be optimistic enough to think there is a decent chance McCarthy, once made speaker, would roll up his sleeves and say "lets get to work on a fair deal to deal with these critical finance issues". I on the other hand am pessimistic. I think the chances are virtually nill that he will make an honest attempt at dealing with things like the debt ceiling, but instead decide to "play chicken" with the economy, force a shutdown to satisfy the teapartiers and "own the democrats". He will make demands like "We will raise the debt ceiling if you cut taxes for the wealthy, scrap Obamacare, Biden resigns, and Trump is given a full pardon".

Quote:

Seriously questioning if I can afford to move out of this ridiculous country.

I'm from Canada. I'd suggest moving here, but we don't like immigrants from ****-hole countries.

carlosy · 5th January 2023, 02:06 PM

What's with the applause when the candidate votes for themselves?

Norman Alexander · 5th January 2023, 02:10 PM

McCarthy is almost guaranteed to do the wrong things if he ever becomes speaker. Because he will have to compromise so much he will be permanently over the barrel. And he is far too pissweak to be any sort of bully.

Norman Alexander · 5th January 2023, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by carlosy

What's with the applause when the candidate votes for themselves?

They have remembered their own names. For some, that is an achievement that needs constant reinforcement.

mgidm86 · 5th January 2023, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

I think this is about the last I'll say on this specific subject for now...

Why? Because not doing so will result in catastrophic consequences for all Americans... and actually every economy tied to ours, so almost everywhere.

We are months away from a default being a reality so this is jumping the gun. We're on vote 7 it might be vote 700 before the Dems need to even start to think about compromising. By then HOPEFULLY the American people can start to see what a dysfunctional idiotic mess the GoP is and no matter what they will lose in '24 by a huge landslide. If not, we're just kicking the can down the road no matter what. If the voters of this country are so ******* stupid to put these reactionary moronic sycophantic buttholes in office ever again then we're headed for disaster no matter what. But you know what, I thought the same thing after Trump.

The consequences of having a dysfunctional House right now mainly means no oversight of the Biden administration so... yeah I don't really care.

Seriously questioning if I can afford to move out of this ridiculous country.

I have been seriously researching this for the past two years just in case.

Tero · 5th January 2023, 02:29 PM

The insurrectionists will have their way. The only way out now is for McCarthy to withdraw. But as poorly as he kept track of his party, there is no other "regular" republican that can pull in the insurrectionists at this point. Will they be somehow satisfied when McCarthy pulls out? They apparently need some pampering.

sinnikal · 5th January 2023, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by mgidm86

I have been seriously researching this for the past two years just in case.

I'm a UK citizen who researched for some months about leaving from before the Brexit vote in 2016. I moved to Spain 3 years ago and haven't regretted a moment. It was just a gut feeling ... US and UK politics is FUBAR. I now live in a country with a ... (gasp) ... socialist leader. It's marvellous, y'all should try it.

carlosy · 5th January 2023, 02:32 PM

So he lost one additional vote this time. One more and he falls below 200.

mgidm86 · 5th January 2023, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

I totally agree... failure to address the debt ceiling, or pass a proper budget, would be horrible for the economy and society in general. Probably plunge the US (as well as other countries) into recession. I don't think we disagree about that at all.

Where we do disagree is in our optimism that McCarthy would "do the right thing".

You seem seem to be optimistic enough to think there is a decent chance McCarthy, once made speaker, would roll up his sleeves and say "lets get to work on a fair deal to deal with these critical finance issues". I on the other hand am pessimistic. I think the chances are virtually nill that he will make an honest attempt at dealing with things like the debt ceiling, but instead decide to "play chicken" with the economy, force a shutdown to satisfy the teapartiers and "own the democrats". He will make demands like "We will raise the debt ceiling if you cut taxes for the wealthy, scrap Obamacare, Biden resigns, and Trump is given a full pardon".

I'm from Canada. I'd suggest moving here, but we don't like immigrants from ****-hole countries.

Yes, you very much do, and it's too cold anyways.

slyjoe · 5th January 2023, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by slyjoe

Interesting fact: the reps can change their votes at any time before the vote is closed.

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

Interesting. Any limit on this?

Just wondering if you can get a case where a Democrat (for example) decides to abstain, which causes a Republican to change their vote , which then causes the Democrat to change from abstaining to voting for Jeffries, which causes the republican to change their vote again, etc....

I don't know. But, based on how these guys write rules (and laws) assuming good faith, I doubt they ever accounted for your scenario.

Norman Alexander · 5th January 2023, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by carlosy

So he lost one additional vote this time. One more and he falls below 200.

Are you saying he should quit while he is behind?

Norman Alexander · 5th January 2023, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Tero

The insurrectionists will have their way. The only way out now is for McCarthy to withdraw. But as poorly as he kept track of his party, there is no other "regular" republican that can pull in the insurrectionists at this point. Will they be somehow satisfied when McCarthy pulls out? They apparently need some pampering.

I think he should press on regardless. The insurrectionista are signing their own political death warrants now. They may think they are "winning" but even donny has seen the writing on the wall for them. If this drags on for weeks or months, shutting down the government, then they will be assigned to oblivion. If not tarring and feathering.

Tero · 5th January 2023, 03:20 PM

Nothing will pass this year except budgets. The insurrectionists are likely to do the same as now. So the gov't will likely shut down later.

They are just getting the most out of their short careers. In Tea Party era language, they are pirates.

Mike! · 5th January 2023, 03:26 PM

How many of these dimwits are on a list of future Jan 6 indictments? I know Jim Jordan is likely one of them, are there others?

Stacyhs · 5th January 2023, 03:43 PM

McCarthy going down for the 10th time.

Gaetz called McCarthy a 'squatter' and sent a letter to the Architect of the Capitol asking why McCarthy's things had been moved into the Speaker's Office.

Quote:

"What is the basis in law, House rule, or precedent to allow someone who has placed second in three successive speaker elections to occupy the Speaker of the House Office?" the letter said. "How long will he remain there before he is considered a squatter?"

He later said:

Quote:

"He's a desperate guy whose vote share is dropping with every subsequent vote and I'm ready to vote all night, all week, all month and never for that person," Gaetz said of McCarthy.

"So I tell you what, when he comes out and heads back to his squatting in the speaker's office, which, why is he even allowed to be there?" Gaetz went on.

acbytesla · 5th January 2023, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Tero

Nothing will pass this year except budgets. The insurrectionists are likely to do the same as now. So the gov't will likely shut down later.

They are just getting the most out of their short careers. In Tea Party era language, they are pirates.

I'm not sure budgets will be passed. Maybe CRs.

Stacyhs · 5th January 2023, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Does this moron really think the Dems are sitting in the House and voting while eating popcorn and drinking alcohol? MORON.

I dunno about alcohol, but there's been at least one Dem representative who posted a picture of himself holding a box of popcorn and captured it something like "Ready for the house speaker vote".

None of them was sitting in the Chamber and voting while having popcorn, much less alcohol, which is what Cammack claimed.

lobosrul5 · 5th January 2023, 03:59 PM

Vote #10, McCarthy sits at 200, same as #9. 3 less than he had for the first vote.

I'm gonna say, we won't have a speaker in the month of January 2023.

Segnosaur · 5th January 2023, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Stacyhs

None of them was sitting in the Chamber and voting while having popcorn, much less alcohol, which is what Cammack claimed.

I wasn't sure about the rules so I looked them up.

Its true... food/snacks are not allowed on the floor of the house, and the only type of drink allowed is water.

Although with the removal of the metal detectors, congressmen will be able to bring guns into the building. I suspect this will be useful if they have to hunt spectators for food.

Trebuchet · 5th January 2023, 04:13 PM

Only way McCarthy becomes speaker is by cutting a deal with the Dems. But there'd have to be some cagey voting, because once the R's figure out he's done that they'll all turn against him.
Since the Speaker doesn't have to be a member, how about we just elect the clerk who's been running the ****-show for the past few days?

lobosrul5 · 5th January 2023, 04:14 PM

So, this is now unprecedented territory. Yes, the vote in the 1850's took more ballots, but no party had a majority. It HAD to be a brokered or compromise speaker.

lobosrul5 · 5th January 2023, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

I wasn't sure about the rules so I looked them up.

Its true... food/snacks are not allowed on the floor of the house, and the only type of drink allowed is water.

Although with the removal of the metal detectors, congressmen will be able to bring guns into the building. I suspect this will be useful if they have to hunt spectators for food.

I assume theres no precedent and probably no rules... what happens if a congressman comes in, and shoots several of the other party lowering the quorum number?

Segnosaur · 5th January 2023, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by lobosrul5

I assume theres no precedent and probably no rules... what happens if a congressman comes in, and shoots several of the other party lowering the quorum number?

Probably the same thing that happened to Greene and Gosar when they pulled their little stunts. McCarthy said he would have a discussion with them. And that's about it.

5th January 2023, 12:04 PM	#321
carlosy Muse Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 556	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander By the way, and because I never watch the stuff, how is Fox News and Friends reporting this debacle? Truthfully and fully? Without bias? Betting this is all the Dems fault, according to Fox. Quick search on google: Quote: Hannity asked the Republican congresswoman. “I understand the frustration. I promise you,” she replied. “I’m not frustrated,” Hannity interrupted. “You didn’t answer my question.” “There are more for us than against us,” Boebert continued. It was the first back-and-forth in a sparring match between the widely watched conservative cable news host and the firebrand Republican congresswoman amid a chaotic race for the House Speakership that has consumed Washington this week. As Boebert described her displeasure with McCarthy, Hannity pressed her repeatedly, asking, “Who do you want to be speaker of the House?” “I am willing to have conversations with the Republican conference to come up with a consensus candidate,” she replied. Later, after Boebert suggested she might nominate former President Trump, who has urged all Republicans to support McCarthy, Hannity scoffed, saying, “Is this a game show? Like we’re gonna pick [Rep.] Jim Jordan [R-Ohio] one day, Trump the other day?” https://thehill.com/homenews/media/3...s-a-game-show/ Seems like even Fox is not amused about the Rep show.
carlosy Muse Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 556

5th January 2023, 12:09 PM	#323
autumn1971 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4,080	Originally Posted by dudalb SO you want one party rule in the US.Nice. This is a stupid analysis. The Democratic Party consists of a plurality of right-wing conservatives, a bunch of centrists, and a small minority of progressives. The non-Fascists in the US favor a threeish party system. Being against an actual said-out-loud fascist party does not make one a communist.
autumn1971 Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4,080	__________________ 'A knave; a rascal; an eater of broken meats; a base, proud, shallow, beggardly, three-suited, hundred-pound, filthy, worsted-stocking knave; a lily-livered, action-taking knave, a whoreson, glass-gazing, superservicable, finical rogue;... the son and heir of a mongral bitch: one whom I will beat into clamorous whining, if thou deniest the least syllable of thy addition."' -The Bard

5th January 2023, 12:14 PM	#324
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 49,362	And the Eighth try is over before it really gets started.
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

5th January 2023, 12:15 PM	#325
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,419	Originally Posted by autumn1971 This is a stupid analysis. The Democratic Party consists of a plurality of right-wing conservatives, a bunch of centrists, and a small minority of progressives. The non-Fascists in the US favor a threeish party system. Being against an actual said-out-loud fascist party does not make one a communist. Depends on the split. If the Gop splits and becomes "Reaganists"* and "MAGA" then they never win an election again in the foreseeable future; all non-Fascists should be in favor. If the Dems split between "centrist dem" and "the squad/green alliance" then the GoP will forever be victorious, and all non-Fascists should be against it. *there are no pre-Reagan actual centrist type GoP people left in national politics Anyways, the poster you are responding to is wrong. The Dems refusal to compromise with the GoP might be disastrous IMO but its irrelevant to us being a one party State or not.
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,419

5th January 2023, 12:17 PM	#326
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	Originally Posted by carlosy Originally Posted by Norman Alexander By the way, and because I never watch the stuff, how is Fox News and Friends reporting this debacle? Truthfully and fully? Without bias? Betting this is all the Dems fault, according to Fox. Quick search on google: Quote: Hannity asked the Republican congresswoman. “I understand the frustration. I promise you,” she replied. “I’m not frustrated,” Hannity interrupted. “You didn’t answer my question.” “There are more for us than against us,” Boebert continued. It was the first back-and-forth in a sparring match between the widely watched conservative cable news host and the firebrand Republican congresswoman amid a chaotic race for the House Speakership that has consumed Washington this week. As Boebert described her displeasure with McCarthy, Hannity pressed her repeatedly, asking, “Who do you want to be speaker of the House?” “I am willing to have conversations with the Republican conference to come up with a consensus candidate,” she replied. Later, after Boebert suggested she might nominate former President Trump, who has urged all Republicans to support McCarthy, Hannity scoffed, saying, “Is this a game show? Like we’re gonna pick [Rep.] Jim Jordan [R-Ohio] one day, Trump the other day?” https://thehill.com/homenews/media/3...s-a-game-show/ Seems like even Fox is not amused about the Rep show. Thanks. And this just reinforces Boebert's idiocy: 20 of her Trumpy faction versus 200 of the McCarthy faction is not "There are more for us than against us". By an order of magnitude. Counting clearly is not one of her strong suits.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015} Last edited by Norman Alexander; 5th January 2023 at 12:20 PM.

5th January 2023, 12:04 PM	#322
Gulliver Foyle Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Cork baaaiii Posts: 1,278	Originally Posted by newyorkguy I think part of what we're seeing is probably the inevitable fracturing of the Republican Party's base. There's two factions and they really don't have much in common. First are traditional Republicans, pro-business, fiscally and socially conservative. Second are working class Republicans, not so much focused on fiscal conservatism but socially conservative, searching for simple solutions to complex problems. Almost two years ago a GOP Congress member from Indiana told NPR: The working class faction explains the rise of Boebert, Gosar, Greene et al. McConnell and I guess even McCarthy represent the more traditional GOP. These emerging working class or trumpist Republicans are too extreme for most traditional Republicans. I think that's what we're seeing in the House. The battle for control of the Republican Party. Pro-business or the party of working class Americans. Which is it going to be? Up until now its been both but that is obviously changing. I'd love to see Jim Banks' citation for his assertion. Because everything I've read is that the republican vote was as privileged and rich as it ever has been.

5th January 2023, 12:31 PM	#327
Faydra sinning sybarite Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,329	Quote of the day: "GOP learns the hard way: Turning the base up too high blows out your speaker."
Faydra sinning sybarite Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,329

5th January 2023, 12:55 PM	#328
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,285	Can someone explain why Boebert is so prominent? She almost got bounced in her first election as an incumbent. Why on earth does she have any leverage at all?
Donal Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 5,285	__________________ SuburbanNerd A blog for making tech make sense

5th January 2023, 12:55 PM	#329
Resume Troublesome Passenger Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 21,562	He said he'd attempt this. Quote: Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) voted for former President Trump for Speaker of the House on Thursday, as the chamber held its seventh vote in three days in an attempt to elect a Speaker.
	__________________ "Choose your leaders with wisdom and forethought. To be led by a coward is to be controlled by all that the coward fears… To be led by a liar is to ask to be told lies." -Octavia E. Butler

5th January 2023, 01:02 PM	#330
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,419	Originally Posted by Donal Can someone explain why Boebert is so prominent? She almost got bounced in her first election as an incumbent. Why on earth does she have any leverage at all? The crazier the candidate the more money they take in for the GoP. https://www.coloradopolitics.com/ele...64d11d7a8.html
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,419

5th January 2023, 01:04 PM	#331
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	Originally Posted by Donal Can someone explain why Boebert is so prominent? She almost got bounced in her first election as an incumbent. Why on earth does she have any leverage at all? Loudest Trump Seig Heiling Champion 2022??
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

5th January 2023, 01:08 PM	#332
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 31,385	Originally Posted by Faydra Quote of the day: "GOP learns the hard way: Turning the base up too high blows out your speaker."
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

5th January 2023, 01:21 PM	#333
alfaniner Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sorth Dakonsin Posts: 27,587	I wonder if it's just a ploy to try to keep the anniversary of Jan 6 out of the main news cycle? All the holdouts will suddenly change their votes tomorrow, electing McCarthy, and that will be the news lede for a day or so. The media will then have to scrap a lot of anniversary reports and discussions, and change them to "What's Next in the House?" reports.
	__________________ Science is self-correcting. Woo is self-contradicting.

5th January 2023, 01:28 PM	#334
Gulliver Foyle Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Cork baaaiii Posts: 1,278	Originally Posted by Darat Sweepstake, any one? I'll throw in a (random) number: 11 42

5th January 2023, 01:33 PM	#335
Upchurch Papa Funkosophy Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 33,589	So, if no one is swerving from this congressional game of chicken, surely there eventually has to be a crash, right? Staffers go unpaid and eventually leave, etc. Can the House basically just shut down and they stop trying until after the next election?
	__________________ "There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes. "It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." -- Mark Twain, maybe.

5th January 2023, 01:36 PM	#336
newyorkguy Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: NY Posts: 12,873	Originally Posted by newyorkguy Quote: "All of the statistics and polling coming out of the 2020 election show that Donald Trump did better with [working class] voters across the board than any Republican has in my lifetime since Ronald Reagan," Rep. Jim Banks, R-Ind., told NPR. Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle I'd love to see Jim Banks' citation for his assertion. Because everything I've read is that the republican vote was as privileged and rich as it ever has been. Below is a quote from a Pew Research poll of the 2020 election. Quote: White voters without a college degree were critical to Trump’s victory in 2016, when he won the group by 64% to 28%. In 2018, Democrats were able to gain some ground with these voters, earning 36% of the White, non-college vote to Republicans’ 61%. In 2020, Biden roughly maintained Democrats’ 2018 share among the group...But Trump’s share of the vote among this group – who represented 42% of the total electorate this year – was nearly identical to his vote share in 2016 (65%). Pew Reseach link I don't want to derail this thread, so to bring it back on topic, again I think what we're seeing is, a GOP that is divided against itself. I think there clearly are two factions within the GOP, and have been since Nixon began attracting Dixiecrats in 1968. It's an enemy of my enemy kind of alliance.

5th January 2023, 02:03 PM	#337
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	Boebert, nominating some nonentity in Round 9: Quote: “We need to get to a point where we start evaluating what life after Kevin McCarthy looks like..." https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...08fc001645302f It's Democrat, dear. Not you.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

5th January 2023, 02:05 PM	#338
Segnosaur Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 19,656	Originally Posted by lobosrul5 Re: Democrats supporting McCarthy to prevent budget problems... Quote: 2 problems: - It still requires that the republicans act as Trustworthy individuals when they should not be trusted.... - It assumes that McCarthy can actually follow through. (After all, I am sure he has promised a lot of things to his own supporters, and reneging on those deals to get Democrats to support him might lead to a revolt) I think this is about the last I'll say on this specific subject for now... Why? Because not doing so will result in catastrophic consequences for all Americans... and actually every economy tied to ours, so almost everywhere. I totally agree... failure to address the debt ceiling, or pass a proper budget, would be horrible for the economy and society in general. Probably plunge the US (as well as other countries) into recession. I don't think we disagree about that at all. Where we do disagree is in our optimism that McCarthy would "do the right thing". You seem seem to be optimistic enough to think there is a decent chance McCarthy, once made speaker, would roll up his sleeves and say "lets get to work on a fair deal to deal with these critical finance issues". I on the other hand am pessimistic. I think the chances are virtually nill that he will make an honest attempt at dealing with things like the debt ceiling, but instead decide to "play chicken" with the economy, force a shutdown to satisfy the teapartiers and "own the democrats". He will make demands like "We will raise the debt ceiling if you cut taxes for the wealthy, scrap Obamacare, Biden resigns, and Trump is given a full pardon". Quote: Seriously questioning if I can afford to move out of this ridiculous country. I'm from Canada. I'd suggest moving here, but we don't like immigrants from ****-hole countries.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I'm Mary Poppins Y'all! - Yondu We are Groot - Groot

5th January 2023, 02:06 PM	#339
carlosy Muse Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 556	What's with the applause when the candidate votes for themselves?
carlosy Muse Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 556

5th January 2023, 02:10 PM	#340
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	McCarthy is almost guaranteed to do the wrong things if he ever becomes speaker. Because he will have to compromise so much he will be permanently over the barrel. And he is far too pissweak to be any sort of bully.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

5th January 2023, 02:12 PM	#341
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	Originally Posted by carlosy What's with the applause when the candidate votes for themselves? They have remembered their own names. For some, that is an achievement that needs constant reinforcement.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

5th January 2023, 02:17 PM	#342
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,624	Originally Posted by lobosrul5 I think this is about the last I'll say on this specific subject for now... Why? Because not doing so will result in catastrophic consequences for all Americans... and actually every economy tied to ours, so almost everywhere. We are months away from a default being a reality so this is jumping the gun. We're on vote 7 it might be vote 700 before the Dems need to even start to think about compromising. By then HOPEFULLY the American people can start to see what a dysfunctional idiotic mess the GoP is and no matter what they will lose in '24 by a huge landslide. If not, we're just kicking the can down the road no matter what. If the voters of this country are so ******* stupid to put these reactionary moronic sycophantic buttholes in office ever again then we're headed for disaster no matter what. But you know what, I thought the same thing after Trump. The consequences of having a dysfunctional House right now mainly means no oversight of the Biden administration so... yeah I don't really care. Seriously questioning if I can afford to move out of this ridiculous country. I have been seriously researching this for the past two years just in case.
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,624	__________________ Why bother?

5th January 2023, 02:29 PM	#343
Tero Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 3,001	The insurrectionists will have their way. The only way out now is for McCarthy to withdraw. But as poorly as he kept track of his party, there is no other "regular" republican that can pull in the insurrectionists at this point. Will they be somehow satisfied when McCarthy pulls out? They apparently need some pampering.
	__________________ Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh! Politics blog: https://esapolitics.blogspot.com/ Parody: http://karireport.blogspot.com/ Poll: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...proval-rating/

5th January 2023, 02:31 PM	#344
sinnikal Thinker Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Right on the beach, SW Spain Posts: 186	Originally Posted by mgidm86 I have been seriously researching this for the past two years just in case. I'm a UK citizen who researched for some months about leaving from before the Brexit vote in 2016. I moved to Spain 3 years ago and haven't regretted a moment. It was just a gut feeling ... US and UK politics is FUBAR. I now live in a country with a ... (gasp) ... socialist leader. It's marvellous, y'all should try it.

5th January 2023, 02:32 PM	#345
carlosy Muse Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 556	So he lost one additional vote this time. One more and he falls below 200.
carlosy Muse Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 556

5th January 2023, 02:34 PM	#346
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,624	Originally Posted by Segnosaur I totally agree... failure to address the debt ceiling, or pass a proper budget, would be horrible for the economy and society in general. Probably plunge the US (as well as other countries) into recession. I don't think we disagree about that at all. Where we do disagree is in our optimism that McCarthy would "do the right thing". You seem seem to be optimistic enough to think there is a decent chance McCarthy, once made speaker, would roll up his sleeves and say "lets get to work on a fair deal to deal with these critical finance issues". I on the other hand am pessimistic. I think the chances are virtually nill that he will make an honest attempt at dealing with things like the debt ceiling, but instead decide to "play chicken" with the economy, force a shutdown to satisfy the teapartiers and "own the democrats". He will make demands like "We will raise the debt ceiling if you cut taxes for the wealthy, scrap Obamacare, Biden resigns, and Trump is given a full pardon". I'm from Canada. I'd suggest moving here, but we don't like immigrants from ****-hole countries. Yes, you very much do, and it's too cold anyways.
mgidm86 Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,624	__________________ Why bother?

5th January 2023, 02:44 PM	#347
slyjoe Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ Posts: 3,445	Originally Posted by slyjoe Interesting fact: the reps can change their votes at any time before the vote is closed. Originally Posted by Segnosaur Interesting. Any limit on this? Just wondering if you can get a case where a Democrat (for example) decides to abstain, which causes a Republican to change their vote , which then causes the Democrat to change from abstaining to voting for Jeffries, which causes the republican to change their vote again, etc.... I don't know. But, based on how these guys write rules (and laws) assuming good faith, I doubt they ever accounted for your scenario.
	__________________ "You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade

5th January 2023, 03:12 PM	#348
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	Originally Posted by carlosy So he lost one additional vote this time. One more and he falls below 200. Are you saying he should quit while he is behind?
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

5th January 2023, 03:20 PM	#349
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,190	Originally Posted by Tero The insurrectionists will have their way. The only way out now is for McCarthy to withdraw. But as poorly as he kept track of his party, there is no other "regular" republican that can pull in the insurrectionists at this point. Will they be somehow satisfied when McCarthy pulls out? They apparently need some pampering. I think he should press on regardless. The insurrectionista are signing their own political death warrants now. They may think they are "winning" but even donny has seen the writing on the wall for them. If this drags on for weeks or months, shutting down the government, then they will be assigned to oblivion. If not tarring and feathering.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

5th January 2023, 03:20 PM	#350
Tero Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: North American prairie Posts: 3,001	Nothing will pass this year except budgets. The insurrectionists are likely to do the same as now. So the gov't will likely shut down later. They are just getting the most out of their short careers. In Tea Party era language, they are pirates.
	__________________ Dominus vo-bisque'em Et cum spear a tu-tu, oh! Politics blog: https://esapolitics.blogspot.com/ Parody: http://karireport.blogspot.com/ Poll: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...proval-rating/ Last edited by Tero; 5th January 2023 at 03:22 PM.

5th January 2023, 03:26 PM	#351
Mike! Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it! Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not! Posts: 49,362	How many of these dimwits are on a list of future Jan 6 indictments? I know Jim Jordan is likely one of them, are there others?
	__________________ "Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes... Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

5th January 2023, 03:43 PM	#352
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,332	McCarthy going down for the 10th time. Gaetz called McCarthy a 'squatter' and sent a letter to the Architect of the Capitol asking why McCarthy's things had been moved into the Speaker's Office. Quote: "What is the basis in law, House rule, or precedent to allow someone who has placed second in three successive speaker elections to occupy the Speaker of the House Office?" the letter said. "How long will he remain there before he is considered a squatter?" He later said: Quote: "He's a desperate guy whose vote share is dropping with every subsequent vote and I'm ready to vote all night, all week, all month and never for that person," Gaetz said of McCarthy. "So I tell you what, when he comes out and heads back to his squatting in the speaker's office, which, why is he even allowed to be there?" Gaetz went on.

5th January 2023, 03:49 PM	#353
acbytesla Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 31,385	Originally Posted by Tero Nothing will pass this year except budgets. The insurrectionists are likely to do the same as now. So the gov't will likely shut down later. They are just getting the most out of their short careers. In Tea Party era language, they are pirates. I'm not sure budgets will be passed. Maybe CRs.
	__________________ Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me. .

5th January 2023, 03:51 PM	#354
Stacyhs Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: United States Posts: 29,332	Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty Quote: Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post Does this moron really think the Dems are sitting in the House and voting while eating popcorn and drinking alcohol? MORON. I dunno about alcohol, but there's been at least one Dem representative who posted a picture of himself holding a box of popcorn and captured it something like "Ready for the house speaker vote". None of them was sitting in the Chamber and voting while having popcorn, much less alcohol, which is what Cammack claimed.

5th January 2023, 03:59 PM	#355
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,419	Vote #10, McCarthy sits at 200, same as #9. 3 less than he had for the first vote. I'm gonna say, we won't have a speaker in the month of January 2023.
lobosrul5 Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 4,419