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Tags 2021 elections , California politics , Gavin Newsom

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Old 14th September 2021, 10:50 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
I just saw Elder's concession speech and he basically just thanked the people who helped him. He didn't mention election fraud nor did he scream about a rigged election.

Based on the numbers that came in, a 2 to 1 vote ratio to keep Newsom, I don't really see how fraud would have played any role in this particular election.

Yes there might be some who are calling the election rigged but I haven't seen much of that going on. Then again, there are many democrat sycophants who claimed the 2016 election was rigged, etc.
Not like in 2020, amirite?
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Old 14th September 2021, 11:32 PM   #282
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong here...

In any mail-in election in the USA, if I sent in 20 photocopied ballots with my name and address on them, (a) probably only the one ballot in its valid return envelope will count as a vote, and (b) I will get a visit from the local electoral control officers and possibly the long arm of the law seeking an explanation for the others.
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Old 14th September 2021, 11:48 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Someone correct me if I'm wrong here...

In any mail-in election in the USA, if I sent in 20 photocopied ballots with my name and address on them, (a) probably only the one ballot in its valid return envelope will count as a vote, and (b) I will get a visit from the local electoral control officers and possibly the long arm of the law seeking an explanation for the others.
Only if you're a Democrat. Otherwise, they applaud your ingenuity and elect you to office.
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Old 15th September 2021, 12:18 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
I just saw Elder's concession speech and he basically just thanked the people who helped him. He didn't mention election fraud nor did he scream about a rigged election.

Based on the numbers that came in, a 2 to 1 vote ratio to keep Newsom, I don't really see how fraud would have played any role in this particular election.
As opposed to ?

Do you have evidence that election fraud has played a significant role in recent (i.e. in the last 50 years or so), major (i.e. not just a small town school board or dog-catcher) election ? If so, that runs counter to all the investigations that show that the US election system has very low levels of fraud (a small number of individual cases) that doesn't come near to swinging the result.

Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Yes there might be some who are calling the election rigged but I haven't seen much of that going on.
Plenty of examples were given, including an ex-President and the losing front-runner so maybe you're not looking hard enough.

Originally Posted by Joecool View Post
Then again, there are many democrat sycophants who claimed the 2016 election was rigged, etc.
They did ?

I mean I know that many claimed that Russia were involved in the election on social media but unlike repeated claims by the GOP of widespread voter fraud, substantive evidence was actually found.

There are also Democratic Party claims of gerrymandering, voter suppression and roll purging but again, there is substantive evidence of this.

I'm not aware of many Democrats claiming that in 2016 millions of Republicans voted illegally, that millions of dead people voted, that Republicans routinely voted several times or that Republicans were being bussed from state to state to vote. I'm certainly not aware that such views are the norm within the party or that holding such views is a touchstone of party loyalty. As always I'm open to evidence.
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Old 15th September 2021, 12:19 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Only if you're a Democrat. Otherwise, they applaud your ingenuity and elect you to office.
So ballot-rigging is just fine if you are a Republican?
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Old 15th September 2021, 12:22 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
So ballot-rigging is just fine if you are a Republican?
The majority of of the tiny number of election fraud cases which have been identified in the last few elections have related to Republicans who have accidentally or deliberately committed election fraud. The steps proposed by the GOP to "secure elections" do nothing to stop those cases but do try to stop hundreds of thousands of Democratic-leaning people voting legally.

Any steps which assist in a GOP victory are fine and dandy in the eyes of the Republicans IMO.
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Old 15th September 2021, 01:00 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
A Lot of the "he is such a great governor" talk is coming from outside the state. Most Democrats in California don't have a high opinion of Newsom. But he, even with all the mistakes he made handling the Covid crisis last year (reopening the state way too early, twice) is still not as bad as what Eldar would do. As stated, it's a hold your nose and vote election.
He has the approval of about two-thirds of voters it seems.
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Old 15th September 2021, 01:15 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
He has the approval of about two-thirds of voters it seems.
That's the wrong way to look at it

We will know exactly how popular Nuesome is come next Primary.
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Old 15th September 2021, 01:28 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
So ballot-rigging is just fine if you are a Republican?
Apparently my sarcasm escaped you.

I was mainly thinking of Trump supporters' reactions to his claim during the 2016 elections that he didn't pay taxes because he's 'smart'.

Quote:
The only years that anybody’s ever seen were a couple of years when he had to turn them over to state authorities when he was trying to get a casino license, and they showed he didn’t pay any federal income tax,” Clinton said.

Trump quickly retorted: “That makes me smart.”
His supporters thought that was just great. Take Giuliani for example:

Quote:
Rudy Giuliani, a close adviser to Mr Trump, also said the Republican nominee was an "absolute genius" if he avoided federal income taxes.
BBC
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Old 15th September 2021, 02:46 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
That's the wrong way to look at it

We will know exactly how popular Nuesome is come next Primary.
Surely that would merely demonstrate his level of support among Democrats?
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Old 15th September 2021, 02:50 AM   #291
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Exclamation

Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Surely that would merely demonstrate his level of support among Democrats?
Or dislike of Elder.
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Old 15th September 2021, 03:10 AM   #292
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Apparently there is a God.
She must vote Democratic.
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Old 15th September 2021, 03:12 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
As i pointed out, most of the candidates on the ballot, judging from their statments in the offical voters guide booklet. are cringeworthy. They should never have gotten on the ballot. They need to tighten up on the recall prodecure,increase the number of signatures required.
Why?
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Old 15th September 2021, 03:17 AM   #294
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Ranked Choice Voting would not only make the election more fair and less partisan, it would also make it far less likely for a Recall to be successful.
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Old 15th September 2021, 03:22 AM   #295
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The worst part of this whole mess is that once again the Republicans and their allies talked about American elections being rigged with hundreds of thousands if not millions of fraudulent votes. A major TV network reports on this rigged voting as though it was an established fact. Undermining the confidence of the American public in the integrity of our electoral system is really obscene.

Did the GOP never hear of the law of unintended consequences?
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Old 15th September 2021, 03:26 AM   #296
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The worst part of this whole mess is that once again the Republicans and their allies talked about American elections being rigged with hundreds of thousands if not millions of fraudulent votes. A major TV network reports on this rigged voting as though it was an established fact. Undermining the confidence of the American public in the integrity of our electoral system is really obscene.

Did the GOP never hear of the law of unintended consequences?
It's a feature not a bug.
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Old 15th September 2021, 03:28 AM   #297
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This thread's title looks like it should be a Scottish lament.
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Old 15th September 2021, 04:40 AM   #298
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Yeah, so much of this just comes down to the fact that the Democrats don't much like their governor (I keep reading the thread title as "Gruesom" - thought maybe that was a joke from the Grape-Seed-Extract-fuelled mind of the OP), but:

a) sure as **** don't want Elder

and

b) Gruesom Newsom was saved by the fact that the GOP is so insane that they would all prefer to vote for the craziest candidate they could find rather than a regular politician, which as dudalb mentions they actually had on the ballot.
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Old 15th September 2021, 05:17 AM   #299
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
This thread's title looks like it should be a Scottish lament.
Or a poem by William McGonagall?
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Old 15th September 2021, 05:24 AM   #300
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Yeah, so much of this just comes down to the fact that the Democrats don't much like their governor (I keep reading the thread title as "Gruesom" - thought maybe that was a joke from the Grape-Seed-Extract-fuelled mind of the OP), but:

a) sure as **** don't want Elder

and

b) Gruesom Newsom was saved by the fact that the GOP is so insane that they would all prefer to vote for the craziest candidate they could find rather than a regular politician, which as dudalb mentions they actually had on the ballot.
Indeed.

There are probably candidates that could have beat Newsom in a recall election, the problem is that they are also Democrats that were not going to undermine their own party by launching a challenge against the sitting governor of their own party.

If the recall election had one ballot asking the question of recall, then another ballot later on (assuming recall was successful) asking for a replacement, you'd see a slate of less fringe candidates running.
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Old 15th September 2021, 05:54 AM   #301
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
So yeah, that was just a spectacular waste of time and who knows how much money - a couple hundred million or so?
275 million, as I understand.
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Old 15th September 2021, 06:23 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by Caroline13 View Post
Just sent this note to a long time STUCK Dem who cannot see or want to see what Neusome has done to Califironia.


Just listened to John Phillips on KABC, I hear him every day, and he has callers about the recall of Gruesom....and MOST that called in were lifelong Dems and now Independents. And one guy called in and said one has to be deaf, dumb and blind to want to keep the Warden. The rich hypocrite French Laundry warden, normal price of French Laundry dinner is $355 and that's where he entertained a bunch of his cronies all unmasked. After he locked businesses down and pushed masks.

What has pushed most over, is the Covid lockdowns, and the decades of Homeless.

And other woman called in same political credentials, and said CA has turned into a toilet and this once Golden State is no longer, and more leaving than coming in, that's not how it's been.

If you don't see this Jennie, then look at the 3 words above. j


BTW: I've been here over 55 yrs from the East and housing has always been out of sight and NOW, hard to grasp it all. Technology did so much too, push the costs of housing over the roof.

A little shack type house in San Jose (silicon valley) is well over a Million and many over 2million and not talking estates....
Maybe after you return to the Forum, then you can explain to us how Newsom easily managed to keep his job as governor considering that you believe that Newsom is such a very terrible governor.
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Old 15th September 2021, 06:26 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
So yeah, that was just a spectacular waste of time and who knows how much money - a couple hundred million or so?
Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
275 million, as I understand.
Maybe the Democrats can remind Californians of this at the next election just in case anyone things that the GOP is the party of fiscal responsibility.

Over a quarter of a billion dollars spunked away on a pointless recall election.
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Old 15th September 2021, 06:33 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Maybe after you return to the Forum, then you can explain to us how Newsom easily managed to keep his job as governor considering that you believe that Newsom is such a very terrible governor.
To be fair, I suspect that Newsom could very well be facing a tough primary next time around.

The recall system made this a Newsom vs a bunch of right wing freaks, so the blowout victory makes a lot of sense.

Newsom has made some serious blunders as a governor. The fact that the voters preferred him over some right wing talk-radio reactionary doesn't really say much.
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Old 15th September 2021, 09:31 AM   #305
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Maybe after you return to the Forum, then you can explain to us how Newsom easily managed to keep his job as governor considering that you believe that Newsom is such a very terrible governor.
I suspect Elder’s predictive website will set the tone for that.
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Old 15th September 2021, 09:43 AM   #306
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Someone correct me if I'm wrong here...

In any mail-in election in the USA, if I sent in 20 photocopied ballots with my name and address on them, (a) probably only the one ballot in its valid return envelope will count as a vote, and (b) I will get a visit from the local electoral control officers and possibly the long arm of the law seeking an explanation for the others.
That certainly is the case here in Vermont. We've gone in big for mail in ballots, but they come with a double envelope, one that has to be signed and certified and correctly enclosed in the other. I'd have to photocopy the odd-sized envelopes too, and of course when and if I did I'd be subject to the substantial penalties my signatures agreed to.

I suppose if I were an institution or organization dedicated to election fraud, I could do it, but the very people the Republicans in many places are accusing of such fraud are the very people who would find the task least possible.
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Old 15th September 2021, 09:47 AM   #307
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Republicans' anti-mail ballot crusade is costing them dearly, and will continue to do so.
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Old 15th September 2021, 09:48 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The worst part of this whole mess is that once again the Republicans and their allies talked about American elections being rigged with hundreds of thousands if not millions of fraudulent votes. A major TV network reports on this rigged voting as though it was an established fact. Undermining the confidence of the American public in the integrity of our electoral system is really obscene.

Did the GOP never hear of the law of unintended consequences?
And the party talking about that possible, even probable, fraud before the election is even held is the party that simultaneously and piously claims that all they want is for American voters to have confidence in the integrity of the electoral process. How their heads don't explode with the blatant hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me. They are, in fact, running on a constant platform of assuming voter fraud and destroying the confidence and the integrity.

Joecool above graciously concedes that, in this case, with such an overwhelming majority on one side, there's probably no fraud involved. But that just makes me wonder, like The Don- as opposed to what? Does that imply that the corollary is now the norm going forward- that any elections decided by closer margins should be assumed, by default, to involve some fraud that must be then disproved in order for the result to stand uncontested? I'm sure the GOP would love that in cases where the Democrats win, but how would they react when any of their closer wins are automatically greeted with "Fraud! Recount! Audit!" My guess is that the only time the GOP will assume the integrity of an election wasn't breached is when they are on the winning side of it,
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Old 15th September 2021, 11:02 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
And the party talking about that possible, even probable, fraud before the election is even held is the party that simultaneously and piously claims that all they want is for American voters to have confidence in the integrity of the electoral process. How their heads don't explode with the blatant hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me. They are, in fact, running on a constant platform of assuming voter fraud and destroying the confidence and the integrity.

Joecool above graciously concedes that, in this case, with such an overwhelming majority on one side, there's probably no fraud involved. But that just makes me wonder, like The Don- as opposed to what? Does that imply that the corollary is now the norm going forward- that any elections decided by closer margins should be assumed, by default, to involve some fraud that must be then disproved in order for the result to stand uncontested? I'm sure the GOP would love that in cases where the Democrats win, but how would they react when any of their closer wins are automatically greeted with "Fraud! Recount! Audit!" My guess is that the only time the GOP will assume the integrity of an election wasn't breached is when they are on the winning side of it,
We've already seen this in the 2020 election where there was no voter fraud involved in the races that GOP candidates won. Somehow, it only involved Trump and Biden.

The GOP's aim was to bring doubt to the integrity of that election which they were hugely successful at doing. But as feared and predicted, it has spread to a general distrust of our system's integrity. That is damage with profound consequences. Thank you, Trump and GOP leadership!
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Old 15th September 2021, 11:29 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Now that the recall is a failure, CA needs to completely revamp their recall procedure. They also need to change the law to make it compulsory for the governor to have to appoint any senator or representative from the same party when one is left vacant by death, resignation, etc. from 3 candidates supplied by their party.
ALready being talked about.
I think the KISS principal should apply here.....if you raise the number of signatures necessary to qualify for the ballot, that would solve a lot of the problems. Though I also support the idea of making it 2 elections. Onf for the recall,the other for the replacement.
I agree with the party requirement to replace a Senator with somebody from the same party, but would allow the Governor more freedom in choosing who from the party he would appoint. I have a deep distrust of party leadership.
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Old 15th September 2021, 11:32 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
He has the approval of about two-thirds of voters it seems.
Define approval. I think "I will vote for him because the other guy is worse" which is how many voted is, at best very,very, qualified.
Or you really don't understand that.
I think I have one advantage in guaging how Californians feel over you: I live in California. And in Sacramento, the state capitol to boot.
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Old 15th September 2021, 11:35 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Yeah, so much of this just comes down to the fact that the Democrats don't much like their governor (I keep reading the thread title as "Gruesom" - thought maybe that was a joke from the Grape-Seed-Extract-fuelled mind of the OP), but:

a) sure as **** don't want Elder

and

b) Gruesom Newsom was saved by the fact that the GOP is so insane that they would all prefer to vote for the craziest candidate they could find rather than a regular politician, which as dudalb mentions they actually had on the ballot.
If Falconer, the ex Mayor of San Diego, a Republican who won relection in a Blue city, had been the leader to replace Newsom, I think Newsom still would have won but it would have been a LOT closer.
Already talk the GOP in Cali is splitting into two wings, a Elder wing and a Falcolner wing.
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Old 15th September 2021, 11:54 AM   #313
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I don't think the GOP realizes how badly the "all elections are rigged" could end up hurting them. If you convince your entire voter base that the elections are rigged, and that they'll never win, then they'll just stop showing up all together.
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Old 15th September 2021, 12:03 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I don't think the GOP realizes how badly the "all elections are rigged" could end up hurting them. If you convince your entire voter base that the elections are rigged, and that they'll never win, then they'll just stop showing up all together.
Indeed so.

This same point has often vexed me as well ...

For example, just recently Trump was claiming that the last election was "rigged" and that the next election will be rigged as well, but he will not let the 2024 election to be a rigged election like the 2020 election was. And at just about the same time he was hinting that he will be running in the 2024 election.

All of which rather begs the question, if it was impossible for Trump to overcome a rigged election when he was the presidential incumbent, then how can it be possible for Trump to overcome a rigged election when he is the presidential challenger?
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Old 15th September 2021, 12:04 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
ALready being talked about.
I think the KISS principal should apply here.....if you raise the number of signatures necessary to qualify for the ballot, that would solve a lot of the problems. Though I also support the idea of making it 2 elections. Onf for the recall,the other for the replacement.
I agree with the party requirement to replace a Senator with somebody from the same party, but would allow the Governor more freedom in choosing who from the party he would appoint. I have a deep distrust of party leadership.
The problem with that is when you have a governor like Elder. He would have chosen the most GOP friendly, DINO type he could have found. Or a complete whackadoodle who could throw a wrench into things or even, perhaps, someone he knew was open to bribery, etc. No, it needs to come from the party leadership.
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Old 15th September 2021, 12:06 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Indeed so.

This same point has often vexed me as well ...

For example, just recently Trump was claiming that the last election was "rigged" and that the next election will be rigged as well, but he will not let the 2024 election to be a rigged election like the 2020 election was. And at just about the same time he was hinting that he will be running in the 2024 election.

All of which rather begs the question, if it was impossible for Trump to overcome a rigged election when he was the presidential incumbent, then how can it be possible for Trump to overcome a rigged election when he is the presidential challenger?
You're expecting logic from these people? You are a "the glass is half full" kinda guy!
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Old 15th September 2021, 12:17 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
You're expecting logic from these people? You are a "the glass is half full" kinda guy!
I don't know about logic, but I'm betting enthusiasm will take a decent sized hit in the upcoming elections.
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Old 15th September 2021, 12:42 PM   #318
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Don't worry, Larry; Qanon to the rescue:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=uxbndlbing
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Old 15th September 2021, 12:43 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
Indeed so.

This same point has often vexed me as well ...

For example, just recently Trump was claiming that the last election was "rigged" and that the next election will be rigged as well, but he will not let the 2024 election to be a rigged election like the 2020 election was. And at just about the same time he was hinting that he will be running in the 2024 election.

All of which rather begs the question, if it was impossible for Trump to overcome a rigged election when he was the presidential incumbent, then how can it be possible for Trump to overcome a rigged election when he is the presidential challenger?

If his supporters just send enough money…
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Old 15th September 2021, 12:45 PM   #320
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Don't worry, Larry; Qanon to the rescue:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=uxbndlbing
Well, now... if that isn't a shocking turn of events.

Just like the Spanish Inquisition, nobody saw that coming.
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