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Tags Andrew Cuomo , New York politics , politics scandals

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Old 17th August 2021, 04:56 AM   #361
wareyin
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Oh please. The democratic establishment isn’t turning on him because they found out what he did. They always knew. They are turning on him because WE found out. And even now, it’s about the sex scandal, not the thousands he killed and then covered up.
When you say they "always" knew, are you inventing some sort of time loop where the Democratic establishment was aware of Cuomo's misdeeds before the investigation that uncovered them?
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Old 17th August 2021, 04:58 AM   #362
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Often overlooked in this scandal is the resignation of a leader of "Time's Up", a supposed #metoo advocacy group.

It was revealed that the founder was attempting to kill the sexual harassment allegations by smearing one of the women that was victimized by Cuomo.

Quote:
The leader of Time’s Up, the #MeToo-era organization founded by Hollywood women to fight sexual harassment, resigned under fire Monday for advising Gov. Andrew Cuomo’s administration behind the scenes in its effort to discredit one of Cuomo’s accusers.

Time’s Up said in a tweet that it agreed with Roberta Kaplan that stepping down as chair of the group’s board of directors was “the right and appropriate thing to do.”

A report issued last week by New York’s attorney general concluded that Cuomo sexually harassed 11 women. The allegations have thrown the Democrat’s career into extreme peril, threatening him with the possibility of both impeachment and criminal charges.

Kaplan, a women’s rights advocate who has a law practice of her own, counseled the administration last winter when Cuomo was hit with the first of the harassment allegations, leveled by a former economic development adviser, Lindsey Boylan.

Both Kaplan and Alphonso David, leader of the Human Rights Campaign, were consulted over a letter the Cuomo administration had drafted attacking Boylan’s credibility. Kaplan and David agreed to review the letter.
https://apnews.com/article/roberta-k...7e1199376d632b
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Old 17th August 2021, 05:18 AM   #363
wareyin
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Often overlooked in this scandal is the resignation of the founder of "Time's Up", a supposed #metoo advocacy group.

It was revealed that the founder was attempting to kill the sexual harassment allegations by smearing one of the women that was victimized by Cuomo.



https://apnews.com/article/roberta-k...7e1199376d632b
That's pretty messed up. An organization founded to fight sexual harassment, led by a women's rights advocating lawyer was working to protect the harasser and attack the harassee?
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Old 17th August 2021, 05:37 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Oh please. The democratic establishment isn’t turning on him because they found out what he did. They always knew. They are turning on him because WE found out. And even now, it’s about the sex scandal, not the thousands he killed and then covered up.
Shame the million dollar challenge isn’t still around. You might have a chance with mind reading like that.
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Old 17th August 2021, 06:04 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Oh please. The democratic establishment isn’t turning on him because they found out what he did. They always knew. They are turning on him because WE found out. And even now, it’s about the sex scandal, not the thousands he killed and then covered up.
So all, or at least most, Democrats knew that Cuomo was sexually harassing women, but kept it a secret from Republicans?

That's Apollo hoax/flat earth level conspiracy theorizing right there, in that it asserts the complicity of literally millions of people in keeping a secret.
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Old 17th August 2021, 06:34 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
So all, or at least most, Democrats knew that Cuomo was sexually harassing women, but kept it a secret from Republicans?

That's Apollo hoax/flat earth level conspiracy theorizing right there, in that it asserts the complicity of literally millions of people in keeping a secret.
To be fair, Zig did say "Democratic establishment", not Democratic voters. His conspiracy is only at the 'hundreds of thousands keeping a secret' level, not millions.
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Old 17th August 2021, 07:25 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
When you say they "always" knew, are you inventing some sort of time loop where the Democratic establishment was aware of Cuomo's misdeeds before the investigation that uncovered them?
In detail? Probably not. But sexual predators like him don't continue because nobody knows, but because nobody in power cares. You can't keep **** like that a secret, not really. It's the same as with Harvey Weinstein and Jeffrey Epstein. The people around him knew, and everyone else in the capitol probably heard rumors. They can feign ignorance all they want, but if you believe them, you're a rube.
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Old 17th August 2021, 07:30 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Foster Zygote View Post
So all, or at least most, Democrats knew that Cuomo was sexually harassing women, but kept it a secret from Republicans?
Who said they kept if from Republicans? I certainly didn't.

And wareyin is correct, I'm not talking about voters, but about other politicians. I'm sure there were Republican politicians who knew. Again, maybe not in detail, but enough to know he was a creep. I'm not naive enough to think anyone in Albany is a saint. I'm not seeing Republicans cast themselves in glory here, but if you think anything about Cuomo reflects well on Democrats, well, you are that naive.
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Old 17th August 2021, 10:27 AM   #369
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I do have to wonder, though, if after all this sexual harassment by Cuomo was publicly revealed, if Democrats would still have elected him to the presidency?

Nah, just kidding. I'm not wondering at all.
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Old 17th August 2021, 11:46 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Shame the million dollar challenge isn’t still around. You might have a chance with mind reading like that.
It doesn't take mind reading skills, only a little knowledge of history and basic human nature. These scandals are all the same. The Catholic Church, Weinstein & Epstein, Matt Lauer, Bill Cosby, and more. These people didn't commit single acts of transgression, they had extensive patterns of misbehavior, with many, many victims. People notice patterns, even if they remain silent.. And that too is a pattern: silence in the face of powerful people misbehaving. But people, including victims, still talk, even if not publicly, and rumors spread. People in the know, know. But they don't say anything, because again, the perpetrators have power. There's nothing about Cuomo that makes him special. Nothing he did would make his actions any more hidden than those of countless other people in power that everyone else in power knew was misbehaving but did nothing about.

If you can't recognize that pattern, you're an idiot. I don't think you're an idiot, but you do seem to be playing dumb.
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Old 17th August 2021, 12:02 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Who said they kept if from Republicans? I certainly didn't.

And wareyin is correct, I'm not talking about voters, but about other politicians. I'm sure there were Republican politicians who knew. Again, maybe not in detail, but enough to know he was a creep. I'm not naive enough to think anyone in Albany is a saint. I'm not seeing Republicans cast themselves in glory here, but if you think anything about Cuomo reflects well on Democrats, well, you are that naive.
At least the Dems forced Cuomo out. I see Gaetz is still in the COngress....
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Old 17th August 2021, 12:18 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
At least the Dems forced Cuomo out. I see Gaetz is still in the COngress....
These are not equivalent scenarios. Leaving aside issues of timing (Cuomo was only forced out after the public release of the official investigation report, no similar report has been made public for Gaetz), Dems forced Cuomo out with threat of impeachment. But Congressmen cannot be impeached. How exactly do you think Republicans can force him to resign?
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Old 17th August 2021, 12:28 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It doesn't take mind reading skills, only a little knowledge of history and basic human nature. These scandals are all the same. The Catholic Church, Weinstein & Epstein, Matt Lauer, Bill Cosby, and more. These people didn't commit single acts of transgression, they had extensive patterns of misbehavior, with many, many victims. People notice patterns, even if they remain silent.. And that too is a pattern: silence in the face of powerful people misbehaving. But people, including victims, still talk, even if not publicly, and rumors spread. People in the know, know. But they don't say anything, because again, the perpetrators have power. There's nothing about Cuomo that makes him special. Nothing he did would make his actions any more hidden than those of countless other people in power that everyone else in power knew was misbehaving but did nothing about.

Ah, rumors should be enough to force powerful people out? All rumors are then true? Most rumors? How do we apply you rumor standard, if it's against a Dem then we don't wait for an investigation, but if it's a Rep (cough, cough, Kavenaugh) then we don't even allow an investigation and just sweep it under the rug?
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Old 17th August 2021, 12:43 PM   #374
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I would ask how public the women, who later came forward, were with their experiences before the first woman went public. Did they keep it to themselves? Chances are, they may have shared them with family and friends, but with "the Dem establishment"? I doubt it. If they didn't realize this was happening to other women, they probably felt they were alone and going to higher ups in the political machine is a scary thing to do when you don't know if you'll be believed or if you could lose your job, etc. Once the first woman goes public with her story, that changes.
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Old 17th August 2021, 12:49 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
These are not equivalent scenarios. Leaving aside issues of timing (Cuomo was only forced out after the public release of the official investigation report, no similar report has been made public for Gaetz), Dems forced Cuomo out with threat of impeachment. But Congressmen cannot be impeached. How exactly do you think Republicans can force him to resign?
Maybe they could first show any interest in even asking him to resign.

Many of those who asked Cuomo to resign had no powers to actually impeach him.
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Old 17th August 2021, 12:50 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Ah, rumors should be enough to force powerful people out?
Did I say that? No, I didn't.

But if the political powers in Albany had wanted him out, they could have launched an investigation years ago. And then it wouldn't be rumors anymore. But they didn't want him out. They didn't care. They only started to care when WE found out.

Quote:
All rumors are then true? Most rumors? How do we apply you rumor standard, if it's against a Dem then we don't wait for an investigation, but if it's a Rep (cough, cough, Kavenaugh) then we don't even allow an investigation and just sweep it under the rug?
If Kavanaugh is your point of comparison, then I know you're just getting desperate.
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Old 17th August 2021, 12:52 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I would ask how public the women, who later came forward, were with their experiences before the first woman went public. Did they keep it to themselves? Chances are, they may have shared them with family and friends, but with "the Dem establishment"? I doubt it. If they didn't realize this was happening to other women, they probably felt they were alone and going to higher ups in the political machine is a scary thing to do when you don't know if you'll be believed or if you could lose your job, etc. Once the first woman goes public with her story, that changes.
Third parties see things. None of these scandals was ever truly private. There are always other people complicit in the silence. Always. If you don't know that by now, you aren't paying attention.
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Old 17th August 2021, 12:52 PM   #378
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Old 17th August 2021, 12:55 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
If Kavanaugh is your point of comparison, then I know you're just getting desperate.
Or thirsty.

For a beer.

Because

Kavanaugh

likes

beer.
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Old 17th August 2021, 01:34 PM   #380
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Did I say that? No, I didn't.

But if the political powers in Albany had wanted him out, they could have launched an investigation years ago. And then it wouldn't be rumors anymore. But they didn't want him out. They didn't care. They only started to care when WE found out.
WE found out after the investigation. I know to Republicans the standard is first you decide you want the guy out, THEN you find a reason, but that's not a good way to run things.



Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
If Kavanaugh is your point of comparison, then I know you're just getting desperate.
Well, you didn't like Gaetz, or Trump, or Roy Moore, or....etc. You know, I get the feeling that no Republican politician measures up. Like....it's only bad if a Dem does it...
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Old 17th August 2021, 01:50 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Third parties see things. None of these scandals was ever truly private. There are always other people complicit in the silence. Always. If you don't know that by now, you aren't paying attention.
Really? You think what Cuomo did was always in front of others?

Quote:
LINDSEY BOYLAN, 36, a former state economic development adviser, says the governor kissed her on the lips as she was leaving a one-on-one meeting in his office and suggested playing strip poker on a state plane.
Quote:
CHARLOTTE BENNETT, 25, a former Cuomo aide, said the governor asked her about her love life — including whether she ever had sex with older men — and talked about his own, saying that age differences didn’t matter in relationships and he was open to dating women over 22. During a meeting alone in his office, the governor said he was lonely and talked about wanting to hug someone, Bennett said.
Quote:
KAREN HINTON, who worked for Cuomo when he was Clinton’s federal housing secretary in the 1990s, said Cuomo gave her an overly long and intimate hug after calling her to his hotel room for a conversation that turned to personal topics on a trip where she was serving as a consultant to the housing agency.
Quote:
A MEMBER OF CUOMO’S STAFF alleged that he closed a door, reached under her blouse and fondled her after summoning her to the governor’s mansion in Albany for help with his cellphone, according to the Times Union of Albany.
https://apnews.com/article/andrew-cu...2e89194489fc45

The other allegations are largely of making the women feel uncomfortable by him putting his arm around their waist or on their back, or kissing a hand at her desk, or getting called by patronizing names, including “blondie,” “sweetheart” and “honey.” etc. These were done in public and are not overtly sexual harassment.

When Cuomo was more overt, it was done in private. Was there a big 'Dem establishment' cover up? Not that you've shown. Par for the course.
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Old 17th August 2021, 02:24 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Did I say that? No, I didn't.

But if the political powers in Albany had wanted him out, they could have launched an investigation years ago. And then it wouldn't be rumors anymore. But they didn't want him out. They didn't care. They only started to care when WE found out.



If Kavanaugh is your point of comparison, then I know you're just getting desperate.
There’s an irony disconnect between these two paragraphs given how much covering up has been revealed in the Kavanaugh investigation.
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Old 17th August 2021, 02:26 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
"It's bad if a Democrat does it, but OK if a Republican Does It"
“And all Dems must pass a purity test that I assign and will never apply to any Republican ever.”
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Old 17th August 2021, 02:32 PM   #384
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
“And all Dems must pass a purity test that I assign and will never apply to any Republican ever.”
Latest hypocrisy is the GOP shedding crocidile tears over the Afghans, but now screming about letting "Muslims" refugees into the country .....
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Old 17th August 2021, 03:30 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Really? You think what Cuomo did was always in front of others?
Always? No, not always. But not never.
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Old 17th August 2021, 03:54 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Always? No, not always. But not never.
Read again what I said very slowly and maybe it will sink in.
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Old 18th August 2021, 06:18 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
But Congressmen cannot be impeached. How exactly do you think Republicans can force him to resign?
Expulsion of congressmen is easier than impeachment. It takes only 2/3 of the members of the relevant body.
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Old 18th August 2021, 06:35 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
Expulsion of congressmen is easier than impeachment. It takes only 2/3 of the members of the relevant body.
Which would mean only some 70 (R)s would have to vote for Gaetz's expulsion. Only 10 of them were able to put country over party for Jan 6th when their own lives had been in danger, so 70 against one of their own when their butts are safe is a huge stretch.
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Old 18th August 2021, 06:38 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Which would mean only some 70 (R)s would have to vote for Gaetz's expulsion. Only 10 of them were able to put country over party for Jan 6th when their own lives had been in danger, so 70 against one of their own when their butts are safe is a huge stretch.
Oh, they won't do it, unless maybe he's criminally convicted and becomes too embarrassing to have around. But the idea that they have no power to do so is incorrect.
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Old 18th August 2021, 12:01 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It doesn't take mind reading skills, only a little knowledge of history and basic human nature. These scandals are all the same. The Catholic Church, Weinstein & Epstein, Matt Lauer, Bill Cosby, and more. These people didn't commit single acts of transgression, they had extensive patterns of misbehavior, with many, many victims. People notice patterns, even if they remain silent.. And that too is a pattern: silence in the face of powerful people misbehaving. But people, including victims, still talk, even if not publicly, and rumors spread. People in the know, know. But they don't say anything, because again, the perpetrators have power. There's nothing about Cuomo that makes him special. Nothing he did would make his actions any more hidden than those of countless other people in power that everyone else in power knew was misbehaving but did nothing about.

If you can't recognize that pattern, you're an idiot. I don't think you're an idiot, but you do seem to be playing dumb.
You appear to be making two mistakes here. First, you are confusing speculation with definite knowledge. They are obviously not the same things but without evidence, they can be hard to distinguish. Second, you are assuming that organizations are some sort of hive mind where anyone in the group necessarily knows everything anyone else knows. People often only have part of the story at a time, not the whole picture.

It's entirely possible that some people in an organizations may have guessed part of a situation like this, while others have information about different parts, but nobody necessarily has the full story. This is why we have investigations and why it is sometimes surprising how big a problem actually is.

So, unless you have evidence that the "democratic establishment" knew the whole story* (or even just a sufficient amount of it) prior to the investigation, you are, yourself, just making an assumption.

I mean, it isn't like Cuomo admitted on a hot mic that he was a sexual preditor.



* And I'm not saying they didn't know the whole story. The may very well have. I just don't assume I know without evidence.
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Old 22nd August 2021, 04:06 PM   #391
Regnad Kcin
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
If Kavanaugh is your point of comparison, then I know you're just getting desperate.
Darn straight! That 13-minute-long FBI investigation of Kav came up totally clean!
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Old 25th August 2021, 08:37 AM   #392
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One of the first acts of the newly elevated Governor of New York is to publicly acknowledge that Cuomo lied about covid deaths.

Quote:
ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) — Gov. Kathy Hochul acknowledges nearly 12,000 more COVID-19 fatalities in NY than publicized by Cuomo administration.
https://twitter.com/JonLemire/status...45130537295877

It's really curious that the nursing home scandal wasn't the issue that killed Cuomo's career, but rather his gross personal habit of sexually harassing and assaulting women.
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Old 25th August 2021, 09:36 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
One of the first acts of the newly elevated Governor of New York is to publicly acknowledge that Cuomo lied about covid deaths.



https://twitter.com/JonLemire/status...45130537295877

It's really curious that the nursing home scandal wasn't the issue that killed Cuomo's career, but rather his gross personal habit of sexually harassing and assaulting women.
Give that man an Emmy!! He really was a great actor.


ETA: Also it was the sexual misconduct not his strong arm tactics against other politicians. Ask Governor Patterson or Ron kim who recently said he threatened him (not physically). I am certain there have been others who accused him but I can't recall at this moment

Last edited by eeyore1954; 25th August 2021 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 25th August 2021, 11:31 AM   #394
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One of the Reason's Cuomo fell was many New York Democrats, behind closed doors, hated his guts.
You would be amazed how much intraparty politics is based on people just not liking each other.
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Old 25th August 2021, 07:04 PM   #395
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He just had dirt on them too. If he didn't they wouldn't have let him shut down prior investigations into his corruption.
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