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Tags Andrew Cuomo , New York politics , politics scandals

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Old 13th March 2021, 11:25 AM   #81
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
In 2013, the former mayor of San Diego, Bob Filner, held out for a while after multiple sexual misconduct allegations before resigning. He negotiated a pretty sweet resignation that included compensation for some legal expenses by the city. The current Vice President also agreed to a pretty sweet plea deal for a brief house arrest and being barred from running for office (only ended up being through the period of probation). It's somewhat disingenuous to say that the Democratic Party actually takes these things seriously beyond public lip service. The consequences often seem to depend on how powerful the chess piece is (this applies to both sides).

The people who matter in New York state politics have come to Andrew Cuomo and said: "you need to resign."

Andrew Cuomo said: "okay, what are you going to do for me?"

I imagine his public statements about refusal to resign are part of establishing his bargaining posture and raising the stakes so he can make bigger demands. He's probably negotiating the favorable terms of his resignation as we speak. Probably also negotiating the terms of investigations, prosecutions, and convictions with sweet plea deals.

Andrew Cuomo said that the accused deserves due process, that resignation is undemocratic, and we shouldn't cave to cancel culture. It'll be interesting if this is the standard from now on (not just when politically convenient). It took, what, 5, 6 accusers to convince top Democratic Party members to sacrifice this powerful chess piece? Al Franken was a weak chess piece in comparison and the party was criticizing the Republicans for Roy Moore as a senate candidate at the time so the calculation was made that Al Franken was an acceptable sacrifice (Andrew Cuomo was supposed to eventually be elected president).

It's also interesting that the governor of New York is imploding at the same time the governor of California is imploding (recall campaign).
I'm not sure Newsom is imploding. So what that Republicans have launched a recall effort? What's new? And where did you come up with such a bizarre theory. You do understand that politics is very different in New York and the comparison to California is nonsense.

Cuomo is in a bad way and he's just trying to weather the storm.
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Old 13th March 2021, 12:31 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm not sure Newsom is imploding. So what that Republicans have launched a recall effort? What's new?

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...ore-signatures
Quote:
If the campaign’s results hold steady from last month, when state officials reported that almost 84% of the initial signatures were valid, there would be more than enough certified petitions to trigger an election.

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
And where did you come up with such a bizarre theory. You do understand that politics is very different in New York and the comparison to California is nonsense.

Cuomo is in a bad way and he's just trying to weather the storm.
Very well.

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Old 13th March 2021, 12:41 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
That they have enough signatures for a recall election doesn't mean much other than they rallied enough GOP troops. Not that it will succeed.
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Old 13th March 2021, 06:54 PM   #84
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It's interesting that this thread doesn't get much activity. He's had 7 accusers with allegations just from the past couple of years. Unless he only recently started getting inappropriate then there's probably at least hundreds of victims over the years. There's probably also a lot of people that knew and said and did nothing. Has Kamala Harris' silence and Kirsten Gillibrand's reversal of her previous standards harmed #metoo?

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Old 13th March 2021, 11:52 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
It's interesting that this thread doesn't get much activity. He's had 7 accusers with allegations just from the past couple of years. Unless he only recently started getting inappropriate then there's probably at least hundreds of victims over the years.
Idle speculation and a figure you just pulled out of thin air. The reason this thread doesn't get 'much' activity is that sensible posters prefer to wait and see what develops rather than go off half-cocked with wild speculations.

Quote:
There's probably also a lot of people that knew and said and did nothing.
More idle speculation. This is supposed to be a skeptic's forum. When we have some facts we will discuss them.

Quote:
Has Kamala Harris' silence and Kirsten Gillibrand's reversal of her previous standards harmed #metoo?
Just Asking Questions?

But don't worry, I completely understand where you are coming from. Partisan's gotta do what partisans do...
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Old 14th March 2021, 12:28 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Idle speculation and a figure you just pulled out of thin air. The reason this thread doesn't get 'much' activity is that sensible posters prefer to wait and see what develops rather than go off half-cocked with wild speculations.

More idle speculation. This is supposed to be a skeptic's forum. When we have some facts we will discuss them.

Just Asking Questions?

But don't worry, I completely understand where you are coming from. Partisan's gotta do what partisans do...
Thanks for your feedback.
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Old 14th March 2021, 02:30 PM   #87
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...?ocid=msedgntp

Someone has forgotten the first rule of holes. PROTIP, if everyone is abandoning you, it's best not to have your vaccine czar call county officials and gauge how loyal they are to the governor. It's just possible one or two of them will share those calls with reporters.
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Old 14th March 2021, 02:53 PM   #88
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It looks like Cuomo is toast. But I do wonder if it is really is something we should impeach politicians for.
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Old 14th March 2021, 03:20 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It looks like Cuomo is toast. But I do wonder if it is really is something we should impeach politicians for.
Which something do you refer to?
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Old 14th March 2021, 04:20 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It looks like Cuomo is toast. But I do wonder if it is really is something we should impeach politicians for.
You wonder if treating female employees as sex objects or hiring women based entirely on their appearance (just to name two of the charges against him) are good enough reasons to flush a public official? You're welcome to stop wondering anytime.
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Old 15th March 2021, 12:00 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
Idle speculation and a figure you just pulled out of thin air. The reason this thread doesn't get 'much' activity is that sensible posters prefer to wait and see what develops rather than go off half-cocked with wild speculations.

More idle speculation. This is supposed to be a skeptic's forum. When we have some facts we will discuss them.

Just Asking Questions?

But don't worry, I completely understand where you are coming from. Partisan's gotta do what partisans do...
I think powerful people owe Andrew Cuomo things, Andrew Cuomo owes powerful people things, powerful people know things about Andrew Cuomo, and Andrew Cuomo knows things about powerful people. Andrew Cuomo also seems to have many enemies even within the local and national Democratic Party. I find it unlikely that his exit will be totally unconditional.

As far as number of victims, the fossils we find aren't the only examples of the organism to ever exist- there were populations of similar organisms. My opinion would be different if the accusations spanned a decade or two but if seven women are making allegations from just the last couple of years, there's probably more during the last couple of years that haven't come forward or aren't willing to and more from his entire lifetime. I wish there were less victims. I would prefer that there were none. I had little knowledge of and no opinion about Andrew Cuomo before March 2020 and I liked his COVID-19 press conferences.

It also seems to me that partisanship is when the transgressions of one side are to be considered with patience, charity, context, nuance, benefit of the doubt, and good faith but the transgressions of the opposing side are to be instantly condemned and exploited for maximum advantage. Have I done that? I feel that my analysis, predictions, and opinions aren't particularly controversial whether you agree with them or not. However, I have no problem admitting that I'm vulnerable to emotion, biases, and errors in thinking because I know I'm flawed and limited. I'm also able to accept the possibility that dismissive, condescending responses or being ignored entirely is all that my comments warrant.

You may or may not be personally guilty of partisanship but many members on this forum certainly are and I doubt you admonish them all consistently. There were posters speculating about Brett Kavanaugh's "real" personality based on his facial expressions and body language. To me that was interesting and perfectly valid analysis and possibly even accurate but does it meet your standards of fact based skepticism?

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Old 15th March 2021, 01:16 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'm not sure Newsom is imploding. So what that Republicans have launched a recall effort? What's new? And where did you come up with such a bizarre theory. You do understand that politics is very different in New York and the comparison to California is nonsense.

Cuomo is in a bad way and he's just trying to weather the storm.
And Cuomo deserves a lot of the flak he is getting.
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Old 15th March 2021, 01:19 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It looks like Cuomo is toast. But I do wonder if it is really is something we should impeach politicians for.
Would you say that if we were talking about a Conservative Republican?
If you are going to hold poltiicans to a standard of ethical behavior, then it needs to be applied regardless of whether you agree with the individual;s politics or not, otherwise it's just politics as usual.
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Old 15th March 2021, 01:20 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That they have enough signatures for a recall election doesn't mean much other than they rallied enough GOP troops. Not that it will succeed.
I think Newsom's French Laundry stunt was incredibly stupid,but I think he will survive the recall attempt. But I think his status as a national political figure has certainly been damaged by his mistakes.
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Old 15th March 2021, 02:00 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
There were posters speculating about Brett Kavanaugh's "real" personality based on his facial expressions and body language. To me that was interesting and perfectly valid analysis and possibly even accurate but does it meet your standards of fact based skepticism?
No, it doesn't. That's the kind of thing that gets people convicted of crimes they didn't commit.

Quote:
I think powerful people owe Andrew Cuomo things, Andrew Cuomo owes powerful people things, powerful people know things about Andrew Cuomo, and Andrew Cuomo knows things about powerful people.
The reality of politics is that powerful people tend to 'owe' people things, but unless you have actual evidence of something relevant it's nothing but innuendo.

So why are you doing it?
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Old 15th March 2021, 02:12 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
If you are going to hold poltiicans to a standard of ethical behavior, then it needs to be applied regardless of whether you agree with the individual;s politics or not
But that's not what happens in practice. We let Republicans away with much more because we expect them to be unethical, and only when it goes well beyond the pale do we push for something to be done (if even then). It's a different story for Democrats. The slightest whiff of impropriety and they're toast!
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Old 15th March 2021, 05:29 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
No, it doesn't. That's the kind of thing that gets people convicted of crimes they didn't commit.
Would you admonish them like you're admonishing me? (Again, I think those Brett Kavanaugh comments were fine) For what it's worth, your continued admonishment of me is of no consequence to me and I'll continue to post what and when it amuses me until I'm suspended or banned.

Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
The reality of politics is that powerful people tend to 'owe' people things, but unless you have actual evidence of something relevant it's nothing but innuendo.

So why are you doing it?
I make extensive use of qualifiers to make it clear that my comments are opinions. To some degree, my intent is to record a prediction that can be examined for accuracy in the future. Moreover, my analysis isn't based on what I want to be true or what I prefer to be true but what I think is pragmatically true (with the assumption that all politics is cynical and amoral). Your posting style seems much more assertive and to present yourself as authoritative. My posting style is unlikely to change so feel free to dismiss me entirely or whatever.

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Old 15th March 2021, 05:43 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
But that's not what happens in practice. We let Republicans away with much more because we expect them to be unethical, and only when it goes well beyond the pale do we push for something to be done (if even then). It's a different story for Democrats. The slightest whiff of impropriety and they're toast!
Investigative journalists often seem to aggressively scrutinize Republicans at the earliest opportunity. This might have the effect of reducing the impact of a transgression or controversy because it's caught relatively early.

There didn't seem to be very much curiousity among investigative journalists about Andrew Cuomo's nursing home issue or inappropriate behavior until fairly recently. He was being groomed for the Presidency instead and his self-congratulatory book was promoted. I'll bet if investigative journalists had aggressively scrutinized the nursing home issue when there were the first inklings of reporting discrepancies Andrew Cuomo wouldn't even be in trouble for it now. The numbers would have been corrected and it could be chalked up to being a mistake amid the uncertainty and disarray of the initial stages of the pandemic reponse. Andrew Cuomo needed to be able to market and sell a self-congratulatory book, though. The snowball rolled and rolled and rolled and the nursing home issue was exposed after it became an avalanche.

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Old 15th March 2021, 06:08 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
Investigative journalists often seem to aggressively scrutinize Republicans at the earliest opportunity. This might have the effect of reducing the impact of a transgression or controversy because it's caught relatively early.

There didn't seem to be very much curiousity among investigative journalists about Andrew Cuomo's nursing home issue or inappropriate behavior until fairly recently. He was being groomed for the Presidency instead and his self-congratulatory book was promoted. I'll bet if investigative journalists had aggressively scrutinized the nursing home issue when there were the first inklings of reporting discrepancies Andrew Cuomo wouldn't even be in trouble for it now. The numbers would have been corrected and it could be chalked up to being a mistake amid the uncertainty and disarray of the initial stages of the pandemic reponse. Andrew Cuomo needed to right a self-congratulatory book, though. The snowball rolled and rolled and rolled and the nursing home issue was exposed after it became an avalanche.

Nice theory, but that is all it is. Cuomo wasn't being groomed for the Presidency. But anyone who is the Governor of New York is likely to have a high profile and thought of as a potential Presidential candidate. It's like you don't know anything about his bio.

He's the son of the former Governor of New York, he was married to a Kennedy, since divorced, his brother is a CNN anchorman. Does he have contacts in the media and has cajoled or persuaded them not to go after him? Possibly.

Note that the press went after Al Franken (A Democrat) like rabid dogs despite every story being generally benign.
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Old 15th March 2021, 06:28 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Nice theory, but that is all it is. Cuomo wasn't being groomed for the Presidency. But anyone who is the Governor of New York is likely to have a high profile and thought of as a potential Presidential candidate. It's like you don't know anything about his bio.
I'm aware. Cuomo/Newsom 2028.

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
He's the sun of the former Governor of New York, he was married to a Kennedy, since divorced, his brother is a CNN anchorman. Does he have contacts in the media and has cajoled or persuaded them not to go after him? Possibly.
I didn't know he was a celestial body, however.

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Note that the press went after Al Franken (A Democrat) like rabid dogs despite every story being generally benign.
I think the curiousity and attention of the media somewhat coincided with the political winds. There were several prominent Democrats condemning him. Also a pawn sacrifice.

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Old 15th March 2021, 06:44 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
I'm aware. Cuomo/Newsom 2028.

I didn't know he was a celestial body, however.

I think the curiousity and attention of the media somewhat coincided with the political winds. There were several prominent Democrats condemning him. Also a pawn sacrifice.
A United States Senator with Franken's ability to communicate is a hardly a pawn.

2028? You might as well be saying the twelfth of never. And what makes you think Newsom would want the number 2 spot?

Thanks for alerting me about the typo though. That's the problem when the typo spell out another word. I fixed it. Again thanks.
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Old 15th March 2021, 07:12 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
A United States Senator with Franken's ability to communicate is a hardly a pawn.
The seat would remain with the Democratic Party. I vaguely remember that he was further left and closer to the mold of Bernie Sanders (who is an Independent, not a Democrat- I know), for better or worse, so I don't think much love was lost between Al Franken and the more prominent and mainstream congressional Democrats. As I said before, this was also simultaneous with the controversy over the senate candidacy of Roy Moore who had been accused of being a creep (or worse) toward young girls. Getting off topic, I suppose.
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Old 15th March 2021, 07:47 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
The seat would remain with the Democratic Party. I vaguely remember that he was further left and closer to the mold of Bernie Sanders (who is an Independent, not a Democrat- I know), for better or worse, so I don't think much love was lost between Al Franken and the more prominent and mainstream congressional Democrats. As I said before, this was also simultaneous with the controversy over the senate candidacy of Roy Moore who had been accused of being a creep (or worse) toward young girls. Getting off topic, I suppose.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you're mistaken about this.

Franken wasn't anything like Bernie. Always a team player and from a midwest farm state. Always good on TV.

Cuomo was always seen having battles with Democrats in a very liberal state. In fact many mainstream Democrats thought Cuomo was a bit of a traitor making deals with the Republican minority in New York.
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Old 15th March 2021, 08:43 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you're mistaken about this.

Franken wasn't anything like Bernie. Always a team player and from a midwest farm state. Always good on TV.

Cuomo was always seen having battles with Democrats in a very liberal state. In fact many mainstream Democrats thought Cuomo was a bit of a traitor making deals with the Republican minority in New York.
I appreciate this more elaborated response.
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Old 19th March 2021, 02:43 PM   #105
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"Cuomo Faces New Claims of Sexual Harassment From Current Aide"

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/19/n...arassment.html

Accuser number 8, I believe.
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Old 19th March 2021, 02:48 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you're mistaken about this.

Franken wasn't anything like Bernie. Always a team player and from a midwest farm state. Always good on TV.

Cuomo was always seen having battles with Democrats in a very liberal state. In fact many mainstream Democrats thought Cuomo was a bit of a traitor making deals with the Republican minority in New York.
I'm probably misremembering Al Franken's rhetoric and record but I think he shouldn't have resigned before the ethics investigation and was pragmatically sacrificed by party leaders.

Like I said before, I didn't know much about Andrew Cuomo before March 2020.
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Old 19th March 2021, 03:15 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
I'm probably misremembering Al Franken's rhetoric and record but I think he shouldn't have resigned before the ethics investigation and was pragmatically sacrificed by party leaders.

Like I said before, I didn't know much about Andrew Cuomo before March 2020.
Honestly, I think Cuomo is a jerk. That doesn't mean I think he should go down for this. Just that he has a reputation as an ass hole. Franken has a reputation of being a teddy bear. And Franken wasn't sacrificed. He chose to step down.
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Old 20th March 2021, 08:25 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Honestly, I think Cuomo is a jerk. That doesn't mean I think he should go down for this. Just that he has a reputation as an ass hole. Franken has a reputation of being a teddy bear. And Franken wasn't sacrificed. He chose to step down.
Well, he was under enormous pressure from the entire Democratic leadership. He might have dug in his heels and demanded a formal investigation, but it would have been lengthy and probably embarrassing. At least he got credit for taking responsibility. And as the evidence piles up about Cuomo, it looks like he's way more than a jerk. Concealing the evidence about covid deaths is probably criminal, and multiple women are accusing him of far worse behavior than the claims against Franken.

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Old 20th March 2021, 04:13 PM   #109
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Cuomo needs to do some prison time for killing old people. Who cares if he pinched a few buttocks?
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Old 20th March 2021, 05:35 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Cuomo needs to do some prison time for killing old people. Who cares if he pinched a few buttocks?
If we're sending people to prison for causing old people to die from Covid-19, there's a certain former President that should be at the head of the line. Is this really where you want to go?
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Old 21st March 2021, 01:54 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by ChrisBFRPKY View Post
Cuomo needs to do some prison time for killing old people. Who cares if he pinched a few buttocks?
He should do time for both if he's guilty of it. Of course that idiot **** president we had until January 20th should do time for rather a number of things.
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Old 21st March 2021, 06:35 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
If we're sending people to prison for causing old people to die from Covid-19, there's a certain former President that should be at the head of the line. Is this really where you want to go?
If you could prove the case against Trump in court, I'd say sure. But his responsibility is more diffuse. Cuomo actually ordered nursing homes to accept covid-positive patients, resulting in measurable deaths.
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Old 21st March 2021, 06:44 AM   #113
wareyin
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
If you could prove the case against Trump in court, I'd say sure. But his responsibility is more diffuse. Cuomo actually ordered nursing homes to accept covid-positive patients, resulting in measurable deaths.
They're both responsible for some deaths. We can point to actions by both that definitely increased the infection rate which led to more deaths. Had Trump acted with anything but his own self interest from the beginning, Cuomo may not have even had the chance for his deadly mistakes. On top of that, Trump is responsible for far more deaths than Cuomo.

All I'm saying is if we're going to start holding politicians accountable for Covid deaths, we should start at the top.
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Old 21st March 2021, 07:59 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
They're both responsible for some deaths. We can point to actions by both that definitely increased the infection rate which led to more deaths. Had Trump acted with anything but his own self interest from the beginning, Cuomo may not have even had the chance for his deadly mistakes. On top of that, Trump is responsible for far more deaths than Cuomo.

All I'm saying is if we're going to start holding politicians accountable for Covid deaths, we should start at the top.
I don't think the controversy over the nursing home deaths is just the order to house COVID-positive patients there. It's that the Cuomo administration may have illegally misrepresented, altered, or tampered with data provided to authorities or that some data was illegally withheld entirely. Is there any evidence or allegation that the Trump administration did something like this in a way that's legally actionable? Moreover, if the Cuomo administration was submitting incorrect information to the federal government then the Cuomo administration is primarily responsible for the resulting feedback and consequences (garbage in, garbage out).

The Trump administration sent respirators, built temporary hospitals, and, rather quickly, sent a hospital ship (that Rachel Maddow said would never get there). I remember mid-last year when there were questions being raised about how people from nursing homes may have been counted as hospital deaths if they were transferred there after infection. The Cuomo administration could have corrected what they were doing probably without much political consequence if they had been more scrutinized at the time and they could have blamed it on the fog of war that federal and state governments were all experiencing. Instead, the misconduct appears to have been allowed to compound.

Pure speculation follows: this freedom and latitude to compound misconduct upon misconduct was a result of the dereliction and malpractice of a significant proportion of the investigative journalism community who were incurious and who consciously or unconsciously made the cynical political calculation that negative press of the Cuomo administration might disillision enough Democratic voters to affect the presidential election. In contrast, they were and are always very curious about anything having to do with Trump or Republicans.

ETA: The Enron and Theranos scandals are somewhat analogous. The sort of people in financial journalism that should have noticed that these companies were ponzi schemes, lies, or houses of cards didn't notice for years, probably because, on some level, they didn't want to notice. They might have offended someone in the company and lost access. They might have lost the respect or adulation of their peers. An inbred, incestous mess with predictably disastrous consequences.

Another ETA: It seems that Andrew Cuomo's press conferences should have become a mirror of the Trump press conferences where he received relentless, hardball, antagonistic, scornful questions about the administration's COVID response and record. Many would say that this posture toward Trump by the press was warranted but now we're learning, much too late, that it may have been warranted but conspicuously absent with regard to Andrew Cuomo. I remember that he might have gotten one question about the nursing home deaths per press conference and his response would always be variations of "ask the federal government, we followed their guidelines" (in the characteristic measured, confident, assertive style he became nationally acclaimed for) without any aggressive probing or followup.

Last edited by Scopedog; 21st March 2021 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 21st March 2021, 01:22 PM   #115
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yeah, if you think about, Trump is actually the victim here. Democrats and journalists are to blame.
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Old 21st March 2021, 02:30 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
yeah, if you think about, Trump is actually the victim here. Democrats and journalists are to blame.
He takes no responsibility!
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Old 21st March 2021, 03:37 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
yeah, if you think about, Trump is actually the victim here. Democrats and journalists are to blame.
I'm sure there's more than enough criticism of Trump's handling of the pandemic elsewhere in this forum.
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Old 21st March 2021, 03:59 PM   #118
wareyin
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
I don't think the controversy over the nursing home deaths is just the order to house COVID-positive patients there. It's that the Cuomo administration may have illegally misrepresented, altered, or tampered with data provided to authorities or that some data was illegally withheld entirely. Is there any evidence or allegation that the Trump administration did something like this in a way that's legally actionable? Moreover, if the Cuomo administration was submitting incorrect information to the federal government then the Cuomo administration is primarily responsible for the resulting feedback and consequences (garbage in, garbage out).
Trump, representing the federal government and by his own admission was "misrepresenting" data, withholding it entirely, or outright telling the public the opposite of the factual data. There is no may about that. Given our recent discourse, I'm certain that your choice of information providers is not providing you with a neutral or accurate accounting of the Trump or the Cuomo situations.

Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
The Trump administration sent respirators, built temporary hospitals, and, rather quickly, sent a hospital ship (that Rachel Maddow said would never get there). I remember mid-last year when there were questions being raised about how people from nursing homes may have been counted as hospital deaths if they were transferred there after infection. The Cuomo administration could have corrected what they were doing probably without much political consequence if they had been more scrutinized at the time and they could have blamed it on the fog of war that federal and state governments were all experiencing. Instead, the misconduct appears to have been allowed to compound.
The Trump administration first told states they were on their own for respirators, then actively bid against those (blue) states attempting to purchase their own respirators, and finally simply swooped in and took respirators already paid for by and promised to those states.

Your whitewashed tale ignores what was going on between the Trump administration and the states in the first several months of the pandemic, the months of inaction and counterproductive action that allowed the pandemic to spread so far and bad information to take root in the heads of his followers that they still believe today.

Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
<uninformed speculation snipped>

Another ETA: It seems that Andrew Cuomo's press conferences should have become a mirror of the Trump press conferences where he received relentless, hardball, antagonistic, scornful questions about the administration's COVID response and record. Many would say that this posture toward Trump by the press was warranted but now we're learning, much too late, that it may have been warranted but conspicuously absent with regard to Andrew Cuomo. I remember that he might have gotten one question about the nursing home deaths per press conference and his response would always be variations of "ask the federal government, we followed their guidelines" (in the characteristic measured, confident, assertive style he became nationally acclaimed for) without any aggressive probing or followup.
Yeah, as others have pointed out it takes some real chutzpah to claim Trump is the real victim here.
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Old 21st March 2021, 04:20 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Trump, representing the federal government and by his own admission was "misrepresenting" data, withholding it entirely, or outright telling the public the opposite of the factual data. There is no may about that. Given our recent discourse, I'm certain that your choice of information providers is not providing you with a neutral or accurate accounting of the Trump or the Cuomo situations.
I may be mistaken, but I imagine that submitting misrepresented, altered, or tampered data or withholding data from a federal agency might place Andrew Cuomo and/or Cuomo administration officials in legal jeopardy. That's the point you've chosen to ignore that's relevant to this thread. Trump can be criticized elsewhere.

Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
The Trump administration first told states they were on their own for respirators, then actively bid against those (blue) states attempting to purchase their own respirators, and finally simply swooped in and took respirators already paid for by and promised to those states.

Your whitewashed tale ignores what was going on between the Trump administration and the states in the first several months of the pandemic, the months of inaction and counterproductive action that allowed the pandemic to spread so far and bad information to take root in the heads of his followers that they still believe today.
Trump can be criticized elsewhere but these are fair points.

Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Yeah, as others have pointed out it takes some real chutzpah to claim Trump is the real victim here.
I don't think I did that but I accept that you perceive it that way. The point relevant to this thread that you've chosen to ignore are the Cuomo administration's specific potential legal jeopardies with regard to COVID data. I'll try to stop mentioning Trump since it distracts from the topic.

Last edited by Scopedog; 21st March 2021 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 21st March 2021, 04:43 PM   #120
wareyin
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Originally Posted by Scopedog View Post
I may be mistaken, but I imagine that submitting misrepresented, altered, or tampered data or withholding data from a federal agency might place Andrew Cuomo and/or Cuomo administration officials in legal jeopardy. That's the point you've chosen to ignore that's relevant to this thread. Trump can be criticized elsewhere.



Trump can be criticized elsewhere but these are fair points.



I don't think I did that but I accept that you perceive it that way. The point relevant to this thread that you've chosen to ignore are the Cuomo administration's specific potential legal jeopardies with regard to COVID data. I'll try to stop mentioning Trump since it distracts from the topic.
Yes, I brought up Trump to hilight where threatening to jail politicians who mishandled the Covid response would lead. I can certainly understand why you would prefer we ignore the facts about Trump to focus on mays, mights, and potentials about Cuomo that don't appear to be well grounded in the facts.
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