IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Andrew Giuliani , FBI investigations , Hunter Biden , rudy giuliani

Reply
Old 6th May 2021, 11:08 PM   #121
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,470
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
That's around the same time Maggie came up with 'care in the community' in the UK.
Anything like board-and-care homes which proliferated after the deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill?

Quote:
By 1975 board-and-care homes had become big business in California. In Los Angeles alone, there were “approximately 11,000 ex-state-hospital patients living in board-and-care facilities.” Many of these homes were owned by for-profit chains, such as Beverly Enterprises, which owned 38 homes. Many homes were regarded by their owners “solely as a business, squeezing excessive profits out of it at the expense of residents.” Five members of Beverly Enterprises’ board of directors had ties to Governor Reagan; the chairman was vice chairman of a Reagan fundraising dinner, and “four others were either politically active in one or both of the Reagan [gubernatorial] campaigns and/or contributed large or undisclosed sums of money to the campaign.” Financial ties between the governor, who was emptying state hospitals, and business persons who were profiting from the process would also soon become apparent in other states.

Many of the board-and-care homes in California, as elsewhere, were clustered in city areas that were rundown and thus had low rents. In San Jose, for example, approximately 1,800 patients discharged from nearby Agnews State Hospital were placed in homes clustered near the campus of San Jose State University. As early as 1971 the local newspaper decried this “mass invasion of mental patients.” Some patients left their board-and-care homes because of the poor living conditions, whereas others were evicted when the symptoms of their illness recurred because they were not receiving medication, but both scenarios resulted in homelessness. By 1973 the San Jose area was described as having “discharged patients...living in skid row...wandering aimlessly in the streets . . . a ghetto for the mentally ill and mentally retarded.”
https://www.salon.com/2013/09/29/ron...ental_illness/
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2021, 12:45 AM   #122
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 18,945
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Lucky you, all I have are Crystal Skulls. And they really suck. Still, at least they're something to keep in my nuclear bomb proof fridge.

You have chosen.... wisely!
__________________
► Evolution is "survival of the fittest" - the fittest being those who are stronger, healthier and better adapted. Covid-19 has changed that. The fittest are now the well informed, logical, science believers who listen to the experts and get vaccinated.
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2021, 02:12 AM   #123
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 23,856
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
What nation's news were you reading? I remember hearing about stop and frisk rather a lot. In fact, I think that's the first I heard of Giuliani at all.
I'm sure if you wanted to know what was going on in New York you could find out about such things. If you didn't particularly care about their local news, it's not something you'd have seen if you weren't looking for it.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2021, 02:18 AM   #124
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 23,856
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Here is an interesting dilemma for Stubby McBonespurs:

From: Law and Crime
...advisers to the former New York City mayor have been pushing for former President Donald Trump to foot the mounting bill for Giulianiís legal defense team...

The problem for Trump is that he's greedy, so he would want to avoid paying out any money that he doesn't have to. On the other hand, he also wants to keep Giuliani from flipping on Trump, so it might be in his best interest to help keep him out of jail.

(Note that in the past, Trump has tried to avoid paying Giuliani's fees as a lawyer while he was trying to overturn the election.)
I'm pretty sure this is signalling to Trump that he either pays up or Rudy takes the Cohen option.
Craig4 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2021, 02:54 AM   #125
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 35,630
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Anything like board-and-care homes which proliferated after the deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill?
No, they were thrown out to fend for themselves.
Captain_Swoop is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2021, 05:31 AM   #126
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 60,782
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I'm sure if you wanted to know what was going on in New York you could find out about such things. If you didn't particularly care about their local news, it's not something you'd have seen if you weren't looking for it.
It was reported in the national news. That you missed it is not a big deal but you are mistaken if you're trying to pass it off as niche information only available to those who sought it out. In that era millions of people still watched national news on television.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2021, 05:33 AM   #127
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
Lucky you, all I have are Crystal Skulls. And they really suck.
Nonsense. They can turn you... into us!
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2021, 12:28 PM   #128
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,470
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
No, they were thrown out to fend for themselves.
Ah....the "Compassionate Conservative" approach.

ETA: An oxymoron if ever there was one.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 7th May 2021 at 12:29 PM.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2021, 01:06 PM   #129
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,465
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I'm pretty sure this is signalling to Trump that he either pays up or Rudy takes the Cohen option.
Trump bots still call here every day and I always think large chunks of the money are being siphoned off because everyone involved is a crook. For example the RNC gets a cut, and phone solicitors take their bit, and individuals in Trumpís circle will divert some funds hoping to cash in while the gravy train is still rolling. Youíd think paying lawyers would be a priority, but Trump expects them to work for free, apparently. Trumpís outfit canít even mimic a respectable fundraising effort because he has no idea how that even works. They know how to beg for cash, but I suspect that accountability is an alien concept and that thereís some skimming going on.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2021, 06:40 PM   #130
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,799
Quote:
I remember hearing about stop and frisk rather a lot. In fact, I think that's the first I heard of Giuliani at all.
Just for the record, Giuliani was known for the 'broken windows' policing strategy. I think there was some overlap, but "Stop and Frisk" was associated more with New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

In a 2016 NPR feature looking back at Giuliani and broken windows (not entirely complimentary ) they reported:
Quote:
By 2001, broken windows had become one of Giuliani's greatest accomplishments. In his farewell address, he emphasized the beautiful and simple idea behind the success. "The broken windows theory replaced the idea that we were too busy to pay attention to street-level prostitution, too busy to pay attention to panhandling, too busy to pay attention to graffiti," he said. "Well, you can't be too busy to pay attention to those things, because those are the things that underlie the problems of crime that you have in your society." NPR link
Attached Images
File Type: jpg NY City 1980s.jpg (113.2 KB, 23 views)
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2021, 08:10 PM   #131
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 18,945
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
Just for the record, Giuliani was known for the 'broken windows' policing strategy. I think there was some overlap, but "Stop and Frisk" was associated more with New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

In a 2016 NPR feature looking back at Giuliani and broken windows (not entirely complimentary ) they reported:
Broken Windows is deeply flawed. It relies on there being a direct relationship between disorder and crime - such a relationship is at best tenuous, if it even exists at all. There are plenty of valid arguments to show that the reduction in crime in NY during the period of BW policy law enforcement, had little to do with the policy, and more to do with the contemporaneous economic boom and decline of the crack cocaine epidemic... in other words, the consensus is that crime statistics would have come down with or without BW.
__________________
► Evolution is "survival of the fittest" - the fittest being those who are stronger, healthier and better adapted. Covid-19 has changed that. The fittest are now the well informed, logical, science believers who listen to the experts and get vaccinated.
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
smartcooky is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th May 2021, 10:36 PM   #132
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 15,676
Broken Windows is the result of the effort to quantify the work cops do.

It is based on a false premise of what Policing is supposed to be.
__________________
ďYou can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.Ē
-Anne Lamott
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2021, 03:14 AM   #133
Squeegee Beckenheim
Penultimate Amazing
 
Squeegee Beckenheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 32,124
I think there's some logic behind the idea that taking care of low-level crime can, in the fullness of time, take care of bigger crimes. The idea being that people start off shoplifting, and if they get away with that they progress to bigger thefts, and from there to home entry. One day someone's home and they kill them. A few more times and killing for them isn't the big deal it once was, etc.

But that doesn't translate to "arrest prostitutes, beggars and graffiti artists". Seems more like creating economic conditions where people don't have to shoplift in the first place, and social programmes that can help actually rehabilitate low-level criminals, rather than locking them up or giving them fines that they can't pay. If you can make it so that people don't want to shoplift, and don't need to shoplift then, sure, it seems logical that in 10-20 years time that will mean fewer grocery store stick-ups and fewer home invasions. If you just write them off and put even more obstacles and burdens in their way, then the long-term effects are more likely to be a rise in crime because people have no other choice to survive.
__________________
I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.
Squeegee Beckenheim is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2021, 03:35 AM   #134
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 35,630
wrong thread.
Captain_Swoop is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2021, 07:19 AM   #135
newyorkguy
Penultimate Amazing
 
newyorkguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: NY
Posts: 11,799
The fact that crime was declining and declining everywhere in the early and mid-1990s is indisputable. Nonetheless, Mayor Giuliani's efforts to improve the quality of life as we New Yorkers experienced it everyday as we went about our daily lives was much appreciated. Calling it 'broken windows' seemed more PR gimmick than reality. It was a crackdown.

To many New Yorkers the reality was, the rank-and-file police had been feuding with city administrations for years going back to the 1960s. In the 1970s there had been a whole series of investigations of the police. Many were fired, some went to prison. At the same time, because of a severe fiscal crisis, about 20% of the patrol force was laid off. Understandably, this caused a huge amount of resentment of the City within the ranks of the police.

In the 1970s, a scaled down police department had to ignore petty crime to handle serious crime. This ignoring prostitutes, low-level drug dealing in the streets, vandalism, panhandling, etc. became entrenched. In the 1980s Edward Koch was our mayor. It was rumored he was gay. The cops didn't like him. He was followed by our first (and only) Black mayor, David Dinkins. A police union official once famously referred to Dinkins as 'a washroom attendant.'

Starting with Mayor John Lindsey in the 1960s, the city urged the police use better restraint in dealing with the public. More resentment on the part of the men in blue. By 1990 the police were ignoring all kinds of things. Most New Yorkers felt this was 'payback' to city residents for failing to show proper respect to the police, exacerbated by the fact, many of the officers lived in the suburbs.

With Giuliani's background as a prosecutor he was able to end all this and get the police to start policing the streets again, in ways they hadn't done in decades. It was the first time in almost forty years the city had a mayor most of the police liked. Obviously, Giuliani couldn't call it, 'Making the police do their job,' but that's what it was. Instead they rolled out the 'broken windows' campaign.

And it worked. Older New Yorkers say, back then, when you went out at night you literally took your life in your hands. Younger people think we're exaggerating, only we're not. Back in the 1980s I was held up at gunpoint in the street twice and narrowly avoided being held up several other times. I used to ride the subway to work, from the Bronx to Manhattan. Every morning I had to walk past panhandlers in the subway station. Some were aggressive and scary. More panhandlers would troop through the train as I rode downtown. One morning, after I told a panhandler I didn't have "a buck" for him, he stood over me and demanded I give him a sip of coffee from the container I was holding. Not fun.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg NY City subway 1980s.jpg (142.1 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg NY City street 1980s.jpg (145.2 KB, 14 views)
newyorkguy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2021, 07:35 AM   #136
slyjoe
Master Poster
 
slyjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Near Harmonica Virgins, AZ
Posts: 2,785
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The fact that crime was declining and declining everywhere in the early and mid-1990s is indisputable.
Although not a popular opinion, it would appear legalized abortion helped a lot.
__________________
"You have done nothing to demonstrate an understanding of scientific methodology or modern skepticism, both of which are, by necessity, driven by the facts and evidence, not by preconceptions, and both of which are strengthened by, and rely upon, change." - Arkan Wolfshade
slyjoe is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2021, 07:52 AM   #137
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 13,632
Originally Posted by newyorkguy View Post
The fact that crime was declining and declining everywhere in the early and mid-1990s is indisputable. Nonetheless, Mayor Giuliani's efforts to improve the quality of life as we New Yorkers experienced it everyday as we went about our daily lives was much appreciated. Calling it 'broken windows' seemed more PR gimmick than reality. It was a crackdown.

To many New Yorkers the reality was, the rank-and-file police had been feuding with city administrations for years going back to the 1960s. In the 1970s there had been a whole series of investigations of the police. Many were fired, some went to prison. At the same time, because of a severe fiscal crisis, about 20% of the patrol force was laid off. Understandably, this caused a huge amount of resentment of the City within the ranks of the police.

In the 1970s, a scaled down police department had to ignore petty crime to handle serious crime. This ignoring prostitutes, low-level drug dealing in the streets, vandalism, panhandling, etc. became entrenched. In the 1980s Edward Koch was our mayor. It was rumored he was gay. The cops didn't like him. He was followed by our first (and only) Black mayor, David Dinkins. A police union official once famously referred to Dinkins as 'a washroom attendant.'

Starting with Mayor John Lindsey in the 1960s, the city urged the police use better restraint in dealing with the public. More resentment on the part of the men in blue. By 1990 the police were ignoring all kinds of things. Most New Yorkers felt this was 'payback' to city residents for failing to show proper respect to the police, exacerbated by the fact, many of the officers lived in the suburbs.

With Giuliani's background as a prosecutor he was able to end all this and get the police to start policing the streets again, in ways they hadn't done in decades. It was the first time in almost forty years the city had a mayor most of the police liked. Obviously, Giuliani couldn't call it, 'Making the police do their job,' but that's what it was. Instead they rolled out the 'broken windows' campaign.

And it worked. Older New Yorkers say, back then, when you went out at night you literally took your life in your hands. Younger people think we're exaggerating, only we're not. Back in the 1980s I was held up at gunpoint in the street twice and narrowly avoided being held up several other times. I used to ride the subway to work, from the Bronx to Manhattan. Every morning I had to walk past panhandlers in the subway station. Some were aggressive and scary. More panhandlers would troop through the train as I rode downtown. One morning, after I told a panhandler I didn't have "a buck" for him, he stood over me and demanded I give him a sip of coffee from the container I was holding. Not fun.
Thing is, similar crime drops were happening in Philly without the gimmick of broken windows. We never had the super aggressive panhandling I have encountered in NYC but there was an element of it. The fact is, cities were revitalizing after decades of decline because people moved back in, finding the suburbs to sterile for their tastes.

Giuliani was a decent cheerleader for NYC, Iíll grant him that much, but Rendell was the same for Philly. It was a time that was hard to credit crime drops to police programs as there were so many other factors in play. Sometimes crime drops were due to police efforts (my primary neighborhood, Fairmount, was cleaned up by police closure of crack houses but this was brought about by the crackheads use of the posh Center City as a burglary target, but really the houses just went to other neighborhoods, but a new livable zone was carved out.)
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 08:19 AM   #138
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 18,082
And... the plot thickens...

From: Politico
Justice Department investigators have asked questions about Rudy Giuliani’s work connected to Romania...

(It is just at the 'investigation' phase, which means that it may be a dead end. But, it wouldn't be surprising if the man with so many sketchy ties ended up in bed with more than just Ukranians.)
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 08:39 AM   #139
timhau
NWO Litter Technician
 
timhau's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I?
Posts: 14,693
Ah, the Transylvanian connection.
__________________
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord, in his wisdom, doesn't work that way. I just stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
- Emo Philips
timhau is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 10:21 AM   #140
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,470
Originally Posted by timhau View Post
Ah, the Transylvanian connection.
It's an investigation they can sink their teeth into.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 10:53 AM   #141
Lurch
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,811
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It's an investigation they can sink their teeth into.
What's the count up to now?
Lurch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 11:03 AM   #142
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
You guys are draining me with your puns.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th May 2021, 11:13 AM   #143
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,470
Originally Posted by Lurch View Post
What's the count up to now?
Dunno...the investigation is cloaked in mystery. It could be dead and buried but with the government, you never know. They could dig something up.


Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You guys are draining me with your puns.
Yeah, bad vampire puns just suck.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2021, 07:48 AM   #144
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 18,082
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Quote:
You guys are draining me with your puns.
Yeah, bad vampire puns just suck.
Those puns are all just bloody awful, and they should never see the light of day.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2021, 07:53 AM   #145
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In a post-fact world
Posts: 96,875
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Those puns are all just bloody awful, and they should never see the light of day.
The stakes are high!
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2021, 08:35 AM   #146
jadebox
Master Poster
 
jadebox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,037
You guys slay me!
jadebox is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2021, 01:07 PM   #147
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,470
Originally Posted by jadebox View Post
You guys slay me!
Putting up with our bad puns is just your cross to bear.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2021, 03:04 PM   #148
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
 
bruto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Way way north of Diddy Wah Diddy
Posts: 29,341
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Putting up with our bad puns is just your cross to bear.
But sometimes it's an awful pain in the neck.
__________________
I love this world, but not for its answers. (Mary Oliver)

Quand il dit "cuic" le moineau croit tout dire. (When he's tweeted the sparrow thinks he's said it all. (Jules Renard)
bruto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2021, 03:17 PM   #149
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,470
Originally Posted by bruto View Post
But sometimes it's an awful pain in the neck.
Bite me.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st May 2021, 06:26 PM   #150
acbytesla
Penultimate Amazing
 
acbytesla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 29,274
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You have chosen.... wisely!
Now we're on a Crusade? .
__________________
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get to me.
.
acbytesla is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd May 2021, 07:46 PM   #151
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 39,367
https://www.justsecurity.org/75032/l...-donald-trump/

Eric Swalwell Incitement Suit for Jan. 6 Riots
Swalwell v. Trump, No 21-cv-00586 (D.D.C. filed Mar. 5, 2021)

"On May 17, 2021, Giuliani filed a motion to dismiss the claims against him. He argued that his speech did not qualify as incitement, that he never formed a conspiracy with the other defendants or the rioters, and that his speech was ultimately protected by the First Amendment."

"Trump’s answer is due by May 23, 2021."
__________________
"We stigmatize and send to the margins
people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid"
- Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd May 2021, 11:43 PM   #152
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,470
Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
https://www.justsecurity.org/75032/l...-donald-trump/

Eric Swalwell Incitement Suit for Jan. 6 Riots
Swalwell v. Trump, No 21-cv-00586 (D.D.C. filed Mar. 5, 2021)

"On May 17, 2021, Giuliani filed a motion to dismiss the claims against him. He argued that his speech did not qualify as incitement, that he never formed a conspiracy with the other defendants or the rioters, and that his speech was ultimately protected by the First Amendment."

"Trumpís answer is due by May 23, 2021."
Giuliani also declared that he has never used hair dye or mascara or any other coloring whatsoever on his hair and that is just the natural color of his sweat.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 22nd May 2021, 11:47 PM   #153
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 39,367
If his speech was not incitement, why does he need a First Amendment excuse?
__________________
"We stigmatize and send to the margins
people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid"
- Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd May 2021, 10:31 PM   #154
jadebox
Master Poster
 
jadebox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 2,037
Deleted.

Nevermind ... IANAL and should not try to play one on the internet.

Last edited by jadebox; 23rd May 2021 at 10:32 PM.
jadebox is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th May 2021, 05:58 AM   #155
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 99,995
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Giuliani also declared that he has never used hair dye or mascara or any other coloring whatsoever on his hair and that is just the natural color of his sweat.


Is that really true?
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th May 2021, 11:24 AM   #156
Stacyhs
Penultimate Amazing
 
Stacyhs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 21,470
Originally Posted by Darat View Post


Is that really true?
No. If it were I would have put it in quotes. I thought the "natural color of his sweat" would give the sarcasm away, but it being Giuliani, anything is possible.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 24th May 2021 at 11:25 AM.
Stacyhs is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th May 2021, 11:46 AM   #157
wareyin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 9,333
Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
https://www.justsecurity.org/75032/l...-donald-trump/

Eric Swalwell Incitement Suit for Jan. 6 Riots
Swalwell v. Trump, No 21-cv-00586 (D.D.C. filed Mar. 5, 2021)

"On May 17, 2021, Giuliani filed a motion to dismiss the claims against him. He argued that his speech did not qualify as incitement, that he never formed a conspiracy with the other defendants or the rioters, and that his speech was ultimately protected by the First Amendment."

"Trumpís answer is due by May 23, 2021."
It's May 24th, and I don't see anything about Trump having responded. I wonder if he did respond and it's not in the news yet, or if he's just going to ignore this one.
wareyin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th May 2021, 12:23 PM   #158
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 52,695
Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Nonsense. They can turn you... into us!
And you won't even know they are doing it!

Cate Blanshett was one the few good things about that Indy Jones Misfire.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th May 2021, 09:25 PM   #159
Orphia Nay
Penguilicious Spodmaster.
Tagger
 
Orphia Nay's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables).
Posts: 39,367
Originally Posted by Orphia Nay View Post
https://www.justsecurity.org/75032/l...-donald-trump/

Eric Swalwell Incitement Suit for Jan. 6 Riots
Swalwell v. Trump, No 21-cv-00586 (D.D.C. filed Mar. 5, 2021)

"On May 17, 2021, Giuliani filed a motion to dismiss the claims against him. He argued that his speech did not qualify as incitement, that he never formed a conspiracy with the other defendants or the rioters, and that his speech was ultimately protected by the First Amendment."

"Trumpís answer is due by May 23, 2021."
Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
It's May 24th, and I don't see anything about Trump having responded. I wonder if he did respond and it's not in the news yet, or if he's just going to ignore this one.
There's a new motion to dismiss on Pacer dated 25 May.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket...lwell-v-trump/

Anyone got a Pacer account?
__________________
"We stigmatize and send to the margins
people who trigger in us the feelings we want to avoid"
- Melinda Gates, "The Moment of Lift".
Orphia Nay is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 29th May 2021, 05:31 AM   #160
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada, eh?
Posts: 18,082
A judge has appointed a Special Master to review evidence collected from Giuliani. (In order to make sure prosecutors don't see any evidence that falls under attorney-client privilege.

In doing so, they rejected arguments from Guiliani's team, wanting everything suppressed (because he was a lawyer) and for more information to be disclosed.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/world/...case-1.5446864

Don't think this development was all that surprising... After all, other lawyers have been subjects of investigation so they must be used to dealing with that sort of thing.

Sent from my LM-X320 using Tapatalk
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:01 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.