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Old 28th July 2021, 05:56 PM   #1
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The Jan. 6 Investigation

I think it's time to have a separate thread about the Congressional investigation into the Jan. 6 insurrection.

Yesterday, four Capitol police officers gave emotional and detailed accounts of what they experienced during the riots. Included in that testimony, were detailed descriptions of the wounds they received, what they heard from the insurrectionists which included racial epithets, pro-Trump rhetoric, what weapons they saw and were used against them, and how they feel about the insurrectionist deniers in Congress and elsewhere. What they said was directly contrary to what Trump has claimed:

Quote:
“These were peaceful people, these were great people.”
“The crowd was unbelievable and I mentioned the word ‘love,’ the love in the air, I’ve never seen anything like it,” he said of his rally on the Ellipse. “That’s why they went to Washington.”
“Too much spirit and faith and love, there was such love at that rally, you had over a million people,”
GOP Rep. Andrew Clyde said:

Quote:
“It was not an insurrection and we cannot call it that and be truthful. The House floor was never breached and it was not an insurrection. This is the truth: There was an undisciplined mob, there were some rioters and some who committed acts of vandalism. But let me be clear. There was no insurrection and to call it an insurrection is in my opinion a bold-faced lie. Watching the TV footage of those who entered the Capitol and walked through Statuary Hall showed people in an orderly fashion staying between the stanchions and ropes, taking videos and pictures. You know, if you didn’t know the TV footage was a video from January the 6th, you would actually think it was a normal tourist visit.”
When asked about this statement, Capitol Police Officer Daniel Hodges, who was the officer being suffocated by a door, had his gas mask ripped off and was punched by a rioter, said:
Quote:
"If that's what American tourists are like, I can see why foreign countries don't like American tourists.”
Rep. Mo Brooks gave an incendiary speech at the rally, screaming that it was time to "“start taking down names and kicking ass.” It's also been reported that he was wearing body armor under his windbreaker:
Quote:
“I was warned on Monday that there might be risks associated with the next few days,” he said. “And as a consequence of those warnings, I did not go to my condo. Instead, I slept on the floor of my office. And when I gave my speech at the Ellipse, I was wearing body armor.

“That’s why I was wearing that nice little windbreaker,” he told me with a grin. “To cover up the body armor.”

He didn’t say who warned him, or what the “risk” was that he’d been warned about. There were probably a “half-dozen different motivations that affected people in varying degrees” to engage in insurrection. He named, for example, “financial losses suffered because of the government’s reaction to COVID-19,” “the belief that there was significant voter fraud and election theft activity,” or “a great love and respect for President Trump.”
We can expect subpoenas being issued to such people as Jim Jordan, Mark Meadows, Ivanka Trump, Kevin McCarthy, Mo Brooks*, and even D. Trump himself. They can no longer hide behind a compliant DOJ. Expect a lot of "I don't recalls" from this motley crew.

*The Justice Department on Tuesday night rejected a request by Alabama Republican Rep. Mo Brooks for legal protection in court against a lawsuit linking him to the Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. Brooks claimed he is protected because the speech was within his duties as representative. The court said:“The record indicates that the January 6 rally was an electioneering or campaign activity that Brooks would ordinarily be presumed to have undertaken in an unofficial capacity,” Justice Department civil attorneys said in a 29-page filing late Tuesday."
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Old 28th July 2021, 06:26 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I think it's time to have a separate thread about the Congressional investigation into the Jan. 6 insurrection...
I agree.

Some of the testimony on Tuesday by Capitol police officers who were involved was incredible.
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Old 28th July 2021, 06:38 PM   #3
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Of course emotionally detailed accounts are the best kind of accounts. I certainly hope that Congress passes new laws based on emotionally detailed accounts.
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Old 28th July 2021, 06:43 PM   #4
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How much teeth does this commission have? Other than compelling testimony and getting it on the record--can they do anything? Won't partisanship continue as before, with each side only hardening their positions?
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Old 28th July 2021, 07:11 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
We can expect subpoenas being issued to such people as Jim Jordan, Mark Meadows, Ivanka Trump, Kevin McCarthy, Mo Brooks*, and even D. Trump himself.
And we can expect those subpoenas to be completely ignored by such people as Jim Jordan, Mark Meadows, Ivanka Trump, Kevin McCarthy, Mo Brooks, and even D. Trump himself.
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Old 28th July 2021, 07:31 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by jnelso99 View Post
And we can expect those subpoenas to be completely ignored by such people as Jim Jordan, Mark Meadows, Ivanka Trump, Kevin McCarthy, Mo Brooks, and even D. Trump himself.
Might be a bit more problematic now that Trump is a private citizen.
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Old 28th July 2021, 08:49 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by jnelso99 View Post
And we can expect those subpoenas to be completely ignored by such people as Jim Jordan, Mark Meadows, Ivanka Trump, Kevin McCarthy, Mo Brooks, and even D. Trump himself.


We'll just let the police officers who were so well treated on January 6th serve them. I'm sure there won't be any problem.
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Old 28th July 2021, 09:16 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Of course emotionally detailed accounts are the best kind of accounts. I certainly hope that Congress passes new laws based on emotionally detailed accounts.
It’s not often I see appeals to emotion explicitly labeled as such.
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Old 28th July 2021, 09:35 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
.... GOP Rep. Andrew Clyde said: ...
I wanted the issue to be addressed that wasn't: I saw that video Clyde was talking about. Someone at some door ushered the terrorists in and they passed through the Rotunda (or wherever) between the typical rope barriers that tourists might well indeed have gone through. It was bizarre given what was going on in the rest of the building and outside.

So confront that ******* Clyde: "Are you referring to the single clip of the mob passing through the rotunda? Is that really the only clip you saw of the whole day? How could that be and what proportion of time do you believe that one clip amounted to?"

Sometimes I think the Democrats are never properly prepared. Sigh.
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Old 28th July 2021, 09:43 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Of course emotionally detailed accounts are the best kind of accounts. I certainly hope that Congress passes new laws based on emotionally detailed accounts.
Oh for pity's sake! How many police could give testimony from that day which wasn't emotional? Because police who were assaulted by a mob are overly emotional, in your opinion?

Did you not watch any of the news streams from 1/6? Where the **** were you? You know there are plenty of replays of the whole affair, right?

Because the testimony was emotional that what, makes it hyperbole?

You really need a serious reassessment here.
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Old 28th July 2021, 09:46 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It’s not often I see appeals to emotion explicitly labeled as such.
So is this sarcasm or are you in agreement with TP?
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Old 28th July 2021, 10:03 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Of course emotionally detailed accounts are the best kind of accounts. I certainly hope that Congress passes new laws based on emotionally detailed accounts.
Wait...what? You think this is a problem? I mean politicians constantly appeal to your emotions for votes, the state constantly taps into your emotions re: policies, good lord, even trial lawyers constantly appeal to the emotions of jurors to defend or prosecute a person. Your contrarianism is absurd.
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Old 28th July 2021, 10:11 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Of course emotionally detailed accounts are the best kind of accounts. I certainly hope that Congress passes new laws based on emotionally detailed accounts.
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It’s not often I see appeals to emotion explicitly labeled as such.
These four men recounted in graphic detail what happened to them, supported with graphic body-cam video. They were beaten the crap out of, one was tazered repeatedly with his own tazer, one had his eyes gouged, one now has a permanent traumatic brain injury that will affect him for the rest of his life, and your take away from all that was to mock them for their emotions. Well, I guess if I was beaten to the point of fearing for my life, I would be emotional too when recounting it to others, as would any thinking, feeling member of the human race.

As soon as I saw Stacy had opened a thread to discuss January 6, I knew that apologists for Dear Has-Been Leader like you two soon be along to minimize the testimony down to the level Repugnican talking points.
Edited by xjx388:  <SNIP> Rule 12


But hey, I understand perfectly well why you would want to belittle what happened to these, and the 170+ other officers who suffered permanent in injuries - its because they are testifying to what will become an inconvenient truth for Trumpublicans like you two, a truth that you will find it impossible to dismiss or deny.

This committee will investigate to find what caused the 1/6 insurrection - they will find the truth, one that most of us with even a modicum of intelligence already have a fair idea about. I can sum up the causes of 1/6 in four short paragraphs...

1. For more than six months leading up to the 2020 Presidential election, Donald Trump sowed the seeds of distrust among the morons that make up his base by repeatedly stating that if he lost the election, it would be because the Democrats will have stolen it.

2. When he actually did lose the election in November 2020 (by over seven million votes) he amplified his claims into The Big Lie. Taking a leaf from the Joseph Goebbels' Book of Propaganda, he incessantly repeated The Big Lie until he brainwashed his moronic followers into believing it.

3. In the weeks leading up to Electoral College certification, he ramped up the lies, repeating The Big Lie repeatedly, and adding in other lies such as the lie that the VP could stop the count and declare Trump the winner, and the lie that he could declare martial law to stop the Electoral College vote. He was ably assisted spreading those lies by a number of co-conspirators... Rudy Giuliani, Sydney Powell, Paul Gosar, Mo Brooks, Michael Flynn, Ted Cruz, Matt Gaetz, Josh Hawley, Marjorie Taylor-Greene, Lauren Boebert et al.

4. He invited his moronic base of deplorables to come to Washington DC for a rally. He had a number of his fellow traitors, including his idiot family, whip up his moronic base into a blind frenzy, pointed them at the Capitol and told them to stop the Electoral College vote - 'Stop what's happening in that building'.... and they did!

Anyone who thinks Trump did not intend for the mob to storm the Capitol is a complete idiot. FFS, the rally was called the "Stop the Steal" rally - they did EXACTLY what he told them to do, and then he spent the next few hours revelling in it.

What the **** did he and his co-conspirators think would happen?
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Old 28th July 2021, 10:20 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Of course emotionally detailed accounts are the best kind of accounts. I certainly hope that Congress passes new laws based on emotionally detailed accounts.
Oh, FFSake! What "laws" are you blathering on about? They're investigating how and why this insurrection happened. This isn't about passing any laws. Your blatant pot stirring got old a long time ago and is as stale as last month's bread. And just as tasteless.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Oh for pity's sake! How many police could give testimony from that day which wasn't emotional? Because police who were assaulted by a mob are overly emotional, in your opinion?

Did you not watch any of the news streams from 1/6? Where the **** were you? You know there are plenty of replays of the whole affair, right?

Because the testimony was emotional that what, makes it hyperbole?

You really need a serious reassessment here.
I agree, S Ginger. Rather than address anything I presented in my post, theprestige ignores everything but the emotions of the police officers. WTF?
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Old 28th July 2021, 10:25 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Wait...what? You think this is a problem? I mean politicians constantly appeal to your emotions for votes, the state constantly taps into your emotions re: policies, good lord, even trial lawyers constantly appeal to the emotions of jurors to defend or prosecute a person. Your contrarianism is absurd.
'Absurd' is too kind a word. Unfortunately, what I'd really like to say violates
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Old 28th July 2021, 10:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It’s not often I see appeals to emotion explicitly labeled as such.
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So is this sarcasm or are you in agreement with TP?
Yes, I'd like to know the same thing.

The officers' testimony being emotional does not negate its validity.
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Old 28th July 2021, 10:37 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by DallasDad View Post
How much teeth does this commission have? Other than compelling testimony and getting it on the record--can they do anything? Won't partisanship continue as before, with each side only hardening their positions?
It can make "criminal referrals" to the DoJ for citizens and organisations
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Old 28th July 2021, 10:42 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Of course emotionally detailed accounts are the best kind of accounts. I certainly hope that Congress passes new laws based on emotionally detailed accounts.
I thought it was unAmerican. REAL men are stoic in the face of mortal danger (e.g., Clint Eastwood, John Wayne). These hysterical soyboys can go suck dicks in hell.
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Old 28th July 2021, 11:51 PM   #19
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It was sworn testimony from law enforcement officers that were eye witnesses to the events. Because it was emotional, it must not be truthful is a pretty weak and lazy criticism. I think if you're interested in the truth of what happened in that building, that much of the footage reinforces, then this testimony needed to be heard.

-edit-

And really, an appeal to emotion? They weren't up there making an argument. They were saying what happened to them.

Last edited by dirtywick; 28th July 2021 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 28th July 2021, 11:56 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Of course emotionally detailed accounts are the best kind of accounts. I certainly hope that Congress passes new laws based on emotionally detailed accounts.
I know, right? Humans are supposed to repress their feelings at having been assaulted and in some cases beaten to near death by a violent mob. And laws, of course, are in no way intended to be shaped by feelings and emotions. Humanity, surely, must in no way figure into it. The Vulcan way!
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Old 29th July 2021, 12:12 AM   #21
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Rush, Hannity, Beck, Carlson and all the other Right-Wing grifters only use emotions, not facts, and yet we are told to take them as seriously as actual journalists.
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Old 29th July 2021, 12:19 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
I thought it was unAmerican. REAL men are stoic in the face of mortal danger (e.g., Clint Eastwood, John Wayne). These hysterical soyboys can go suck dicks in hell.
Sometimes you scare me, Cain. The hard edge here would almost make me doubt your rep.
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Old 29th July 2021, 02:47 AM   #23
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Laura Ingraham on Fox is giving out 'best performance' awards to police officers from today’s hearing

Video in link

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1420209713644331009
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Old 29th July 2021, 02:58 AM   #24
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The best description IMV was Officer Fanone describing it as being 'like a medieval battle field'.

Quote:
"It looked like a medieval battle scene," Michael Fanone recounted to ABC News Chief Justice Correspondent Pierre Thomas on Friday. "Some of the most brutal combat I've ever encountered."

When he arrived on scene, Fanone said, it was "chaos."
ABC News
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Old 29th July 2021, 03:07 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Of course emotionally detailed accounts are the best kind of accounts. I certainly hope that Congress passes new laws based on emotionally detailed accounts.
Why would you be looking to pass new laws? The actions were already against the law.
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Old 29th July 2021, 03:17 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Laura Ingraham on Fox is giving out 'best performance' awards to police officers from today’s hearing

Video in link

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1420209713644331009
A real scummy bitch isn't she!
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Old 29th July 2021, 03:21 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Of course emotionally detailed accounts are the best kind of accounts. I certainly hope that Congress passes new laws based on emotionally detailed accounts.
Yes the only time emotion is supposed to be expressed is in how much supreme court justices love beer.
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Old 29th July 2021, 03:29 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by DallasDad View Post
How much teeth does this commission have? Other than compelling testimony and getting it on the record--can they do anything? Won't partisanship continue as before, with each side only hardening their positions?
None. No. Yes.
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Old 29th July 2021, 03:30 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
It was sworn testimony from law enforcement officers that were eye witnesses to the events. Because it was emotional, it must not be truthful is a pretty weak and lazy criticism...
This seems to be emerging as the official MAGA talking point. They have to come up with something to contradict the reality we've all seen and they don't have a whole lot to work with.
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Old 29th July 2021, 03:31 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
These four men recounted in graphic detail what happened to them, supported with graphic body-cam video. They were beaten the crap out of, one was tazered repeatedly with his own tazer, one had his eyes gouged, one now has a permanent traumatic brain injury that will affect him for the rest of his life, and your take away from all that was to mock them for their emotions.
Exactly like Saint Tucker did. Their right-wing media says jump, they jump.
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Old 29th July 2021, 03:32 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Laura Ingraham on Fox is giving out 'best performance' awards to police officers from today’s hearing

Video in link

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1420209713644331009
What a despicable human being.
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Old 29th July 2021, 05:16 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Of course emotionally detailed accounts are the best kind of accounts. I certainly hope that Congress passes new laws based on emotionally detailed accounts.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you “compassionate Comservatism” in just two sentences.
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Old 29th July 2021, 05:23 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you “compassionate Comservatism” in just two sentences.
Yeah... its not a bug, it a feature!
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Old 29th July 2021, 05:31 AM   #34
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Dragging this over here from the other thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
The Dump-GOP legislators clearly sat around in a meeting to come up with this talking points memo they then sent around for ad nauseum repetition.

Here's this one: Nancy Pelosi and the BLM movement are to blame because they defunded the police.

And their cult followers will buy it, coming to a FB news stream or Twitter feed near you.

Here's a fact check on Capitol Police funding straight from the Libertarian Cato Institute on Jan 8, 2021


Someone needs to shove that in the face of anyone buying what Jordan is selling.

Re the police, they earned that money on the 6th!

I agree though someone at the top was responsible for dismissing the white protestors because they are alright guys. I think the police chief already resigned didn't he?
Many of the police worked hard that day in extremely adverse conditions and did their duty well. We also know that some did not.

Last I checked 6 were put on leave to investigate their conduct during the attack where some cops were seen glad-handing the mob and made it pretty clear where their sympathies lied. It's plainly obvious that decisions were made that left the Capitol a soft target, and the reasons for why that happened must be investigated thoroughly.

If the chief resigned, that's a good thing, but that's not the end of things. The leadership decision to not be prepared needs to be publicly explored in detail. Firing leadership is a necessary result, but not the end of the matter. The public needs to understand what was motivating this failure and how to prevent future repeats.

The police enabling of right wing political violence is a nationwide problem that must be addressed. The Capitol police being unprepared to stop a clearly telegraphed right wing attack is not a one-off phenomena. Across the country we have been seeing that police are either inexplicably unable or unwilling to enforce the law against violent right wing actors. I can't think of a higher profile way than to explore this particular example in extreme detail.
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Old 29th July 2021, 05:43 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
I thought it was unAmerican. REAL men are stoic in the face of mortal danger (e.g., Clint Eastwood, John Wayne). These hysterical soyboys can go suck dicks in hell.
The attempt to overturn the Democratic process was Unamerican. ANYONE who was inside that building should face time, and those who were clearly ringleaders deserve time at gitmo, with the same treatment given those suspected of involvement in things AL Qaeda etc, because there is no difference in who and what they are. Anyone who openly sympathizes with the guilty deserve an active FBI file as well.

You heard me.
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Old 29th July 2021, 05:57 AM   #36
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It's an old trick: if the witness is emotional, say they're clearly too emotional to be trusted about the facts. If the witness is not emotional, say that they're clearly lying because any normal person would be emotional when recalling such things if they truly happened.
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Old 29th July 2021, 06:00 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It's an old trick: if the witness is emotional, say they're clearly too emotional to be trusted about the facts. If the witness is not emotional, say that they're clearly lying because any normal person would be emotional when recalling such things if they truly happened.
Exactly. It shows that the emotional state of the witness is completely irrelevant: it's the narrative that counts for them.
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Old 29th July 2021, 06:01 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Of course emotionally detailed accounts are the best kind of accounts. I certainly hope that Congress passes new laws based on emotionally detailed accounts.
It's as if you've posted a movie review after watching the first three minutes.
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Old 29th July 2021, 06:02 AM   #39
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“How DARE you show emotion when talking about how you were almost beaten to death by lunatics I support!!”
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Old 29th July 2021, 06:03 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
It's as if you've posted a movie review after watching the first three minutes.
Or, more accurately, posted a movie review after reading the title of another review for that movie... broadcast on Fox News.
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