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Tags Capitol riot , Congressional hearings

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Old 4th August 2021, 03:21 PM   #361
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
A DOJ official between the election and Jan. 6 tried to get acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen and acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue to sign a letter saying the DOJ had found irregularities in the election which was a lie. Both Rosen and Donoghue refused. The letter was sent on Dec. 28, 2020



https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/04/polit...sal/index.html

Clark later tried to get Trump to appointment him acting Attorney General but Rosen and Donoghue stopped it according to ABC News.
I really think the DoJ needs to be removed from being part of the Executive Branch. Its clear that the current situation is too open to one man's corruption.
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Old 4th August 2021, 05:41 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I really think the DoJ needs to be removed from being part of the Executive Branch. Its clear that the current situation is too open to one man's corruption.
And that was spectacularly evident during the GW Bush presidency.
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Old 4th August 2021, 06:43 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I really think the DoJ needs to be removed from being part of the Executive Branch. Its clear that the current situation is too open to one man's corruption.
I agree. It should be under the Judiciary Branch.
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Old 4th August 2021, 10:10 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
A DOJ official between the election and Jan. 6 tried to get acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen and acting Deputy Attorney General Richard Donoghue to sign a letter saying the DOJ had found irregularities in the election which was a lie. Both Rosen and Donoghue refused. The letter was sent on Dec. 28, 2020



https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/04/polit...sal/index.html

Clark later tried to get Trump to appointment him acting Attorney General but Rosen and Donoghue stopped it according to ABC News.
Yep.

This is how close the USA came to losing its democracy, and having a Trump installed as Führer.

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/c...y-117939781770
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Old 6th August 2021, 11:53 AM   #365
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yep.

This is how close the USA came to losing its democracy, and having a Trump installed as Führer.

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/c...y-117939781770
The United States Millitary would never have backed a coup, the people who attacked the capitol were basically a mixture of conspiracy theorist crazies who had no chance of success.
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Old 6th August 2021, 01:06 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
The United States Millitary would never have backed a coup, the people who attacked the capitol were basically a mixture of conspiracy theorist crazies who had no chance of success.
no chance of preventing the certification of the election?
I think you are wrong.
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Old 6th August 2021, 01:13 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
The United States Millitary would never have backed a coup, the people who attacked the capitol were basically a mixture of conspiracy theorist crazies who had no chance of success.
It wouldn't have taken the military. The plan was to have Repub legislatures overturn the results of the elections for Biden in their states and send their own slates of electors to Washington.That would have created a Constitutional crisis and massive court challenges, but Trump might have kept the White House. The military would have stood aside and the let the civilians battle it out.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...-election.html
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Old 6th August 2021, 02:01 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
The United States Military would never have backed a coup, the people who attacked the capitol were basically a mixture of conspiracy theorist crazies who had no chance of success.
In reply....

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
It wouldn't have taken the military. The plan was to have Repub legislatures overturn the results of the elections for Biden in their states and send their own slates of electors to Washington.That would have created a Constitutional crisis and massive court challenges, but Trump might have kept the White House. The military would have stood aside and the let the civilians battle it out.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...-election.html
THIS!

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
no chance of preventing the certification of the election?
I think you are wrong.
And THIS!

Crazy Chainsaw If you had bothered to watch the video before posting, you might have gleaned that the coup would have been political - the military were not even mentioned, and would not have been involved, or even needed.

There is a reason why there were all those phone calls from Giuliani and Trump to election officials in Georgia and Arizona, asking them to do certain things such as "find 11,800 votes" and "fix the problem". All of that was predicated on getting the DoJ announce that they were investigating serious electoral fraud issues.

There is a reason why Jeffrey Clark, a senior official, met personally with Trump behind his superior's backs, and in return for an offer of making him the AG, Clark drafted a letter outlining DoJ allegations of election fraud, but his superiors refused to sign it, so it never saw the light of day until now. I shudder to think what might have happened if Rosen could have been convinced to sign it.

There is a reason why Trump fired CISA Director Krebs and caused Bill Barr and US Attorney Pak to resign

There is a reason why Trump pressured Acting AG Rosen to pursue meritless election fraud claims and baseless lawsuits in a White House meeting.

There is a reason why Trump used his WH PA and her official WH email account to send DOJ officials materials alleging election fraud in Michigan, and a draft Supreme Court complaint.

There is a reason why WH CoS Mark Meadows pressure Acting AG Rosen to authorize DOJ investigations into allegations of election fraud in multiple states, and requested that he assign Clark to investigate the Georgia election fraud allegations.

NONE of those reasons involves the military. All of this, if successful, would have given Trump and his devoted Repugnicans in both houses the necessary cover to support those State political entities loyal to Trump (especially in Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania and Michigan) to rule their individual elections fraudulent, and to recall their Electoral College electors and replace them with electors that would cast their votes for Trump. That would have "legitimately" put Der Trumpenführer back into office without a shot being fired.

America dodged a bullet!!

Some of us in this forum could see what he was up to as long ago as 2018. We said so at that time and were roundly mocked by the usual suspects. As it turns out, he was trying to do exactly what we said he was trying to do.
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Last edited by smartcooky; 6th August 2021 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 6th August 2021, 02:09 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
It wouldn't have taken the military. The plan was to have Repub legislatures overturn the results of the elections for Biden in their states and send their own slates of electors to Washington.That would have created a Constitutional crisis and massive court challenges, but Trump might have kept the White House. The military would have stood aside and the let the civilians battle it out.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...-election.html
The backup plan was to take enough democratic reps/senators hostage or just kill them, so that the election wouldn't be certified which would've left Trump as president (in their mind, but actually it would've been Patrick Leahy).

ETA: or wait I'm not sure about Patrick Leahy in that case. Its if the elections couldn't be held at all he would've been president.

Last edited by lobosrul5; 6th August 2021 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 6th August 2021, 02:15 PM   #370
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More evidence of just how crazy Trump's sycophants are is this Anderson Cooper interview with Mike Lindell of "My Pillow". Talk about a raving fruitcake!
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 6th August 2021, 02:29 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
The backup plan was to take enough democratic reps/senators hostage or just kill them, so that the election wouldn't be certified which would've left Trump as president (in their mind, but actually it would've been Patrick Leahy).

ETA: or wait I'm not sure about Patrick Leahy in that case. Its if the elections couldn't be held at all he would've been president.
Actually if there was no President at noon Jan. 20, the line of succession would be Speaker of the House first, then President Pro Tempore of the Senate (Leahy), then Cabinet members.

But if Trump could have thrown the election into the House, the House would choose the President and the Senate would choose the VP. With one vote per state, the House Repubs would have elected Trump.
https://ballotpedia.org/Who_is_the_p..._2021%3F_(2020)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/3/19
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Old 6th August 2021, 03:26 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
More evidence of just how crazy Trump's sycophants are is this Anderson Cooper interview with Mike Lindell of "My Pillow". Talk about a raving fruitcake!
YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

I didn't even make it through 10 seconds of this guy speaking. I just can't. I can't wrap my head around the fact that people like this not only exist, but that people listen to this stuff and believe it. How can this be happening, holy crap.
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Old 6th August 2021, 04:38 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
In reply....



THIS!



And THIS!

Crazy Chainsaw If you had bothered to watch the video before posting, you might have gleaned that the coup would have been political - the military were not even mentioned, and would not have been involved, or even needed.

There is a reason why there were all those phone calls from Giuliani and Trump to election officials in Georgia and Arizona, asking them to do certain things such as "find 11,800 votes" and "fix the problem". All of that was predicated on getting the DoJ announce that they were investigating serious electoral fraud issues.

There is a reason why Jeffrey Clark, a senior official, met personally with Trump behind his superior's backs, and in return for an offer of making him the AG, Clark drafted a letter outlining DoJ allegations of election fraud, but his superiors refused to sign it, so it never saw the light of day until now. I shudder to think what might have happened if Rosen could have been convinced to sign it.

There is a reason why Trump fired CISA Director Krebs and caused Bill Barr and US Attorney Pak to resign

There is a reason why Trump pressured Acting AG Rosen to pursue meritless election fraud claims and baseless lawsuits in a White House meeting.

There is a reason why Trump used his WH PA and her official WH email account to send DOJ officials materials alleging election fraud in Michigan, and a draft Supreme Court complaint.

There is a reason why WH CoS Mark Meadows pressure Acting AG Rosen to authorize DOJ investigations into allegations of election fraud in multiple states, and requested that he assign Clark to investigate the Georgia election fraud allegations.

NONE of those reasons involves the military. All of this, if successful, would have given Trump and his devoted Repugnicans in both houses the necessary cover to support those State political entities loyal to Trump (especially in Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania and Michigan) to rule their individual elections fraudulent, and to recall their Electoral College electors and replace them with electors that would cast their votes for Trump. That would have "legitimately" put Der Trumpenführer back into office without a shot being fired.

America dodged a bullet!!

Some of us in this forum could see what he was up to as long ago as 2018. We said so at that time and were roundly mocked by the usual suspects. As it turns out, he was trying to do exactly what we said he was trying to do.
I know all that but what you don't know is what was going on behind the scenes too stop it, like the Rumor to Ron Paul's Waco Whackos that Antifa
Would be at the Capitol. Like the Rumor there was going to be a fight and Trump would call trigger the insurrection act.
What doomed Trumpsters political plan was his own idiot supporters and the manipulation that went on with them behind the scenes.
Conspiracy theorist are easy to manipulate that why you can't trust them to Implement a well planned insurrection.
Trump was sabotaged by his own crazy supporters.
Trump's goon squad was tricked Into believing they would have Millitary support, and that destroyed any chance of a political move on the 6th.
One of us on this forum knew what was happening and worked to stop it.
A blind man could have seen what Trump was doing, from Mars if he knew who to watch and where to look.
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Old 6th August 2021, 04:42 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I didn't even make it through 10 seconds of this guy speaking. I just can't. I can't wrap my head around the fact that people like this not only exist, but that people listen to this stuff and believe it. How can this be happening, holy crap.
Try one second of Jerome Corsi telling Trump supporters Trump would trigger the insurrection act.
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Old 6th August 2021, 05:05 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
...
Trump was sabotaged by his [fantasy about his] own crazy supporters.
...
ftfy

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this was always about Dump's fantasies.

Thank goodness but it also exposed how easily a few people might actually have been able to pull something like this off.
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Old 6th August 2021, 05:11 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
ftfy

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this was always about Dump's fantasies.

Thank goodness but it also exposed how easily a few people might actually have been able to pull something like this off.
Correct if they hadn't been so Incompetent they might just have pulled it off.
I trusted in their Incompetence and stupidity.
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Old 6th August 2021, 05:57 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I didn't even make it through 10 seconds of this guy speaking. I just can't. I can't wrap my head around the fact that people like this not only exist, but that people listen to this stuff and believe it. How can this be happening, holy crap.
It's happening because there a A LOT of really stupid people out there. I can think of a couple ISF members in particular that fit that bill. I don't know how they chew gum and walk at the same time.
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Old 6th August 2021, 06:14 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
ftfy

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this was always about Dump's fantasies.

Thank goodness but it also exposed how easily a few people might actually have been able to pull something like this off.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It's happening because there a A LOT of really stupid people out there. I can think of a couple ISF members in particular that fit that bill. I don't know how they chew gum and walk at the same time.
I don't see how some breath without brain cells but they apparently do.
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Old 6th August 2021, 08:21 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
In reply....



THIS!



And THIS!

Crazy Chainsaw If you had bothered to watch the video before posting, you might have gleaned that the coup would have been political - the military were not even mentioned, and would not have been involved, or even needed.

There is a reason why there were all those phone calls from Giuliani and Trump to election officials in Georgia and Arizona, asking them to do certain things such as "find 11,800 votes" and "fix the problem". All of that was predicated on getting the DoJ announce that they were investigating serious electoral fraud issues.

There is a reason why Jeffrey Clark, a senior official, met personally with Trump behind his superior's backs, and in return for an offer of making him the AG, Clark drafted a letter outlining DoJ allegations of election fraud, but his superiors refused to sign it, so it never saw the light of day until now. I shudder to think what might have happened if Rosen could have been convinced to sign it.

There is a reason why Trump fired CISA Director Krebs and caused Bill Barr and US Attorney Pak to resign

There is a reason why Trump pressured Acting AG Rosen to pursue meritless election fraud claims and baseless lawsuits in a White House meeting.

There is a reason why Trump used his WH PA and her official WH email account to send DOJ officials materials alleging election fraud in Michigan, and a draft Supreme Court complaint.

There is a reason why WH CoS Mark Meadows pressure Acting AG Rosen to authorize DOJ investigations into allegations of election fraud in multiple states, and requested that he assign Clark to investigate the Georgia election fraud allegations.

NONE of those reasons involves the military. All of this, if successful, would have given Trump and his devoted Repugnicans in both houses the necessary cover to support those State political entities loyal to Trump (especially in Arizona, Georgia, Pennsylvania and Michigan) to rule their individual elections fraudulent, and to recall their Electoral College electors and replace them with electors that would cast their votes for Trump. That would have "legitimately" put Der Trumpenführer back into office without a shot being fired.

America dodged a bullet!!

Some of us in this forum could see what he was up to as long ago as 2018. We said so at that time and were roundly mocked by the usual suspects. As it turns out, he was trying to do exactly what we said he was trying to do.
Makes me long for the good old days of Watergate.
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Old 7th August 2021, 01:20 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Opinions are not perjury. Saying that Babbitt is a martyr and a patriot is not perjury, for example.
A committee that is looking for fact is not going to be interested in opinion. They will be asking questions that require answers of fact, and those can be shown to be true or false.
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Old 7th August 2021, 05:54 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
A committee that is looking for fact is not going to be interested in opinion. They will be asking questions that require answers of fact, and those can be shown to be true or false.
Exactly right why I called Georgia's Attorney General , I knew Ron Paul's Waco Whackos were planing something, they wanted to over throw Barack Obama in 2008 based on the dumb lies of birtherism, in the book Obama Nation.
That's how I knew Trump created a monster that would most likely bite him in the Nads. Just wish Capitol's security had been more secured, even Antifa knew better than to show up, they were telling ,people, not to go on the 6th.
They didn't want to have anything to do with the right wing violence against the constitution.
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Old 7th August 2021, 07:52 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
ftfy

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this was always about Dump's fantasies.

Thank goodness but it also exposed how easily a few people might actually have been able to pull something like this off.
And it will be easier yet in 2024.
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Old 7th August 2021, 10:04 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It's happening because there a A LOT of really stupid people out there. I can think of a couple ISF members in particular that fit that bill. I don't know how they chew gum and walk at the same time.
I think it's a mistake to write off these people as stupid, as if they lack basic information-processing ability. The people promoting "stop the steal" in dozens of failed lawsuits were smart enough to get through college and law school and pass their bar exams. Fox News commentators are clever and articulate. Tucker Carlson grew up rich and attended boarding schools and Trinity College. Laura Ingraham graduated from Dartmouth and UVa law school. Many of the people working for Trump or supporting him have elite credentials.

The fact is that these people have embraced an extremist political philosophy and have promoted it pretty much since the Reagan administration, if not earlier. They are plenty smart. That's what makes them dangerous.
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Old 7th August 2021, 11:00 AM   #384
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Let's not overvalue credentials as indicators of brain power, especially not the brains of lucky little rich boys.

In academia, it's tolerably well established that the school you just graduated from counts for something, but after a few years your performance is all that matters. You have a Nivy Leegue degree or two, and you've used it to tell other people's lies to the mentally deprived? Keep right on, and better men will watch you soften and rot. And soon overreach yourself. And just possibly, in today's angry atmosphere, wind up in prison.

A good mind can't long deal in ugly nonsense. What makes the rightie "elite" dangerous is their power to stir up mobs -- and that's a fragile, tottery sort of power, because man! but the plebians* can turn on you in an instant!


* My people, as I've said aforetime. Not proudly.
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Old 7th August 2021, 12:13 PM   #385
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I think it's a mistake to write off these people as stupid, as if they lack basic information-processing ability. The people promoting "stop the steal" in dozens of failed lawsuits were smart enough to get through college and law school and pass their bar exams. Fox News commentators are clever and articulate. Tucker Carlson grew up rich and attended boarding schools and Trinity College. Laura Ingraham graduated from Dartmouth and UVa law school. Many of the people working for Trump or supporting him have elite credentials.

The fact is that these people have embraced an extremist political philosophy and have promoted it pretty much since the Reagan administration, if not earlier. They are plenty smart. That's what makes them dangerous.
As I've pointed out before, a person can be 'intelligent' and stupid at the same time. Look at Mike Lindell. He has a multi-million dollar company that he started so he isn't unintelligent, but when it comes to Trump, Lindell is an idiot. So is DeSantis who went to Yale, Harvard and the Naval School of Justice: not unintelligent but stupid at the same time.
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Old 7th August 2021, 03:33 PM   #386
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
As I've pointed out before, a person can be 'intelligent' and stupid at the same time. Look at Mike Lindell. He has a multi-million dollar company that he started so he isn't unintelligent, but when it comes to Trump, Lindell is an idiot. So is DeSantis who went to Yale, Harvard and the Naval School of Justice: not unintelligent but stupid at the same time.
The intellect is the servant, not the master, of our desires.
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Old 7th August 2021, 03:44 PM   #387
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Let's not overvalue credentials as indicators of brain power, especially not the brains of lucky little rich boys.

In academia, it's tolerably well established that the school you just graduated from counts for something, but after a few years your performance is all that matters.
I've never been in academia. What I saw of it seemed singularly uninteresting.

That said, I did find credentials occasionally useful but irrelevant after a few years experience. To the point I wound up completely ignoring them unless current. Things change so quickly that what a person has learned recently is simply more important. That said, the smartest, and most valuable, person I ever hired was a result of stumbling across his thesis in the UCSD library. He was 2 years after his doctorate and apparently w/o a job or post doc at the time.
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Old 7th August 2021, 03:49 PM   #388
mgidm86
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It's the same as religion. My Dad is very intelligent, high IQ, successful, worked hard and never ripped off anyone. He seemed to be Mr. Logic for so many years to us kids. Not with trump!

Last week he said two things that freak me out.

"I think Trump is intelligent" (not the first time)

"I am a Trump fan"

He doesn't watch real news obviously - how else could one still think this?

He laughed when I said Obama was infinitely more intelligent. His head is deep in his own ass. At the same time though, he can have a conversation about this stuff and agree with me about a lot of it.

He says he believes Trump got ripped off in the election.

I ask him based on what? No evidence provided in all those court cases, yada yada. No answer, he just believes it must be true.

"I just can't believe Biden got that many votes" Same reasoning as Trump.

Yes, because you watch FOX and don't know who Trump actually is, and how bad he is. Does the fact that I made such a drastic political change not mean anything? At all? Guess not.

So you don't have to be "stupid", although it IS stupid. **** man I dunno I'm so frustrated.

It's all about misinformation from FOX and the comfort these people get in hearing BS they agree with. Duh. I tell him this though and I just get a smile and a shrug.

The Dems are so much worse! "Look at Hunter Biden!" I said what about Trump putting his own kids in high ranking positions.

He agreed, shrugged it off. But Biden is somehow more corrupt. Dude.....

I can only shake my head. How can I tell him about 5 years worth of bad stuff Trump has done? How can you save someone who is so far gone? He's old so why bother, but it still bugs me.

A lot of these people are not racists, although I wonder if he's more of a closet racist. What I mean is, him and everyone in his area is white. Many retired and doing okay for themselves. "Look at all the crime they do, can't blame the cops" Stuff like that. Maybe they are racist.

It took me a lot to change my mind, and I actively particiate in debate and challenge myself. These people don't. They don't know what critical thinking even is.

Most Americans are far FAR from being critical thinkers, and even as a self proclaimed critical thinker, changing my mind did not come easy. It took someone as bad as Trump. And my history of that is right here on this forum.

So good luck making any progress with these people. What could convince someone like that?

Going crazy here.
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Old 7th August 2021, 03:53 PM   #389
Warp12
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
It's the same as religion. My Dad is very intelligent, high IQ, successful, worked hard and never ripped off anyone. He seemed to be Mr. Logic for so many years to us kids. Not with trump!

Last week he said two things that freak me out.

"I think Trump is intelligent" (not the first time)

"I am a Trump fan"
Maybe he trolled you.
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Old 7th August 2021, 04:50 PM   #390
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
"I just can't believe Biden got that many votes" Same reasoning as Trump.
Reminds me of an old SNL sketch mocking Bill O'Reilly. "The liberal media says more people live in California than New York. Not true. I've been to California. Hardly anybody out there. In New York the sidewalks are packed."
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Old 7th August 2021, 04:51 PM   #391
Crazy Chainsaw
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
It's the same as religion. My Dad is very intelligent, high IQ, successful, worked hard and never ripped off anyone. He seemed to be Mr. Logic for so many years to us kids. Not with trump!

Last week he said two things that freak me out.

"I think Trump is intelligent" (not the first time)

"I am a Trump fan"

He doesn't watch real news obviously - how else could one still think this?

He laughed when I said Obama was infinitely more intelligent. His head is deep in his own ass. At the same time though, he can have a conversation about this stuff and agree with me about a lot of it.

He says he believes Trump got ripped off in the election.

I ask him based on what? No evidence provided in all those court cases, yada yada. No answer, he just believes it must be true.

"I just can't believe Biden got that many votes" Same reasoning as Trump.

Yes, because you watch FOX and don't know who Trump actually is, and how bad he is. Does the fact that I made such a drastic political change not mean anything? At all? Guess not.

So you don't have to be "stupid", although it IS stupid. **** man I dunno I'm so frustrated.

It's all about misinformation from FOX and the comfort these people get in hearing BS they agree with. Duh. I tell him this though and I just get a smile and a shrug.

The Dems are so much worse! "Look at Hunter Biden!" I said what about Trump putting his own kids in high ranking positions.

He agreed, shrugged it off. But Biden is somehow more corrupt. Dude.....

I can only shake my head. How can I tell him about 5 years worth of bad stuff Trump has done? How can you save someone who is so far gone? He's old so why bother, but it still bugs me.

A lot of these people are not racists, although I wonder if he's more of a closet racist. What I mean is, him and everyone in his area is white. Many retired and doing okay for themselves. "Look at all the crime they do, can't blame the cops" Stuff like that. Maybe they are racist.

It took me a lot to change my mind, and I actively particiate in debate and challenge myself. These people don't. They don't know what critical thinking even is.

Most Americans are far FAR from being critical thinkers, and even as a self proclaimed critical thinker, changing my mind did not come easy. It took someone as bad as Trump. And my history of that is right here on this forum.

So good luck making any progress with these people. What could convince someone like that?

Going crazy here.
Tell he you agree with him Trump is a Very Stable Genius, 99.99% Horse Manure.
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Old 7th August 2021, 05:24 PM   #392
Crazy Chainsaw
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
It's the same as religion. My Dad is very intelligent, high IQ, successful, worked hard and never ripped off anyone. He seemed to be Mr. Logic for so many years to us kids. Not with trump!

Last week he said two things that freak me out.

"I think Trump is intelligent" (not the first time)

"I am a Trump fan"

He doesn't watch real news obviously - how else could one still think this?

He laughed when I said Obama was infinitely more intelligent. His head is deep in his own ass. At the same time though, he can have a conversation about this stuff and agree with me about a lot of it.

He says he believes Trump got ripped off in the election.

I ask him based on what? No evidence provided in all those court cases, yada yada. No answer, he just believes it must be true.

"I just can't believe Biden got that many votes" Same reasoning as Trump.

Yes, because you watch FOX and don't know who Trump actually is, and how bad he is. Does the fact that I made such a drastic political change not mean anything? At all? Guess not.

So you don't have to be "stupid", although it IS stupid. **** man I dunno I'm so frustrated.

It's all about misinformation from FOX and the comfort these people get in hearing BS they agree with. Duh. I tell him this though and I just get a smile and a shrug.

The Dems are so much worse! "Look at Hunter Biden!" I said what about Trump putting his own kids in high ranking positions.

He agreed, shrugged it off. But Biden is somehow more corrupt. Dude.....

I can only shake my head. How can I tell him about 5 years worth of bad stuff Trump has done? How can you save someone who is so far gone? He's old so why bother, but it still bugs me.

A lot of these people are not racists, although I wonder if he's more of a closet racist. What I mean is, him and everyone in his area is white. Many retired and doing okay for themselves. "Look at all the crime they do, can't blame the cops" Stuff like that. Maybe they are racist.

It took me a lot to change my mind, and I actively particiate in debate and challenge myself. These people don't. They don't know what critical thinking even is.

Most Americans are far FAR from being critical thinkers, and even as a self proclaimed critical thinker, changing my mind did not come easy. It took someone as bad as Trump. And my history of that is right here on this forum.

So good luck making any progress with these people. What could convince someone like that?

Going crazy here.
Tell he you agree with him Trump is a Very Stable Genius, 99.99% Horse Manure.
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Old 7th August 2021, 05:36 PM   #393
Skeptic Ginger
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Reminds me of an old SNL sketch mocking Bill O'Reilly. "The liberal media says more people live in California than New York. Not true. I've been to California. Hardly anybody out there. In New York the sidewalks are packed."
I still can't get over how stupid he had to be to not understand how tides work.
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Old 7th August 2021, 05:38 PM   #394
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
It's the same as religion. My Dad is very intelligent, high IQ, successful, worked hard and never ripped off anyone. He seemed to be Mr. Logic for so many years to us kids. Not with trump!

Last week he said two things that freak me out.

"I think Trump is intelligent" (not the first time)

"I am a Trump fan"

He doesn't watch real news obviously - how else could one still think this?

He laughed when I said Obama was infinitely more intelligent. His head is deep in his own ass. At the same time though, he can have a conversation about this stuff and agree with me about a lot of it.

He says he believes Trump got ripped off in the election.

I ask him based on what? No evidence provided in all those court cases, yada yada. No answer, he just believes it must be true.

"I just can't believe Biden got that many votes" Same reasoning as Trump.

Yes, because you watch FOX and don't know who Trump actually is, and how bad he is. Does the fact that I made such a drastic political change not mean anything? At all? Guess not.

So you don't have to be "stupid", although it IS stupid. **** man I dunno I'm so frustrated.

It's all about misinformation from FOX and the comfort these people get in hearing BS they agree with. Duh. I tell him this though and I just get a smile and a shrug.

The Dems are so much worse! "Look at Hunter Biden!" I said what about Trump putting his own kids in high ranking positions.

He agreed, shrugged it off. But Biden is somehow more corrupt. Dude.....

I can only shake my head. How can I tell him about 5 years worth of bad stuff Trump has done? How can you save someone who is so far gone? He's old so why bother, but it still bugs me.

A lot of these people are not racists, although I wonder if he's more of a closet racist. What I mean is, him and everyone in his area is white. Many retired and doing okay for themselves. "Look at all the crime they do, can't blame the cops" Stuff like that. Maybe they are racist.

It took me a lot to change my mind, and I actively particiate in debate and challenge myself. These people don't. They don't know what critical thinking even is.

Most Americans are far FAR from being critical thinkers, and even as a self proclaimed critical thinker, changing my mind did not come easy. It took someone as bad as Trump. And my history of that is right here on this forum.

So good luck making any progress with these people. What could convince someone like that?

Going crazy here.
Exactly! Thanks for giving a classic example of what I'm talking about. People can be intelligent and god-awful, knuckle dragging stupid at the same time.

I think your father is just so emotionally invested in his beliefs and/or his inability to admit he was snookered by a con artist that he'd rather continue being wrong/conned than face himself. He'd have to admit that he was a fool.
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Old 7th August 2021, 05:39 PM   #395
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
Tell he you agree with him Trump is a Very Stable Genius, 99.99% Horse Manure.
Nommed!!
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Old 7th August 2021, 05:51 PM   #396
Crazy Chainsaw
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A classic example of someone being stupid.
https://youtu.be/k-mSAC52C5Y
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Old 7th August 2021, 05:55 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Because Republicans prefer fantasy to reality and are generally stupid.
Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
My Dad is very intelligent, high IQ, successful, worked hard and never ripped off anyone. He seemed to be Mr. Logic for so many years to us kids. Not with trump!
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Old 7th August 2021, 05:55 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
A classic example of someone being stupid.
https://youtu.be/k-mSAC52C5Y
Fixed it for you.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 7th August 2021, 05:58 PM   #399
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Duplicate

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 7th August 2021 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 7th August 2021, 05:59 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Fixed it for you.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
OMG how can people make up this **** with a straight face?
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