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Tags Florida politics , Ron DeSantis

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Old 13th August 2021, 06:06 AM   #321
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
"Three were unvaccinated. We don’t know the status of the 4th." Only idiots avoid the vaccine...and DeSantis is not anti-vax, at all.

Lol, the unvaccinated... and our excellent reporting reveals we generally know nothing before reporting. Too rich.
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:08 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
"Three were unvaccinated. We don’t know the status of the 4th."

Lol, the unvaccinated... and our excellent reporting reveals we generally know nothing before reporting. Too rich.
They know three were unvaccinated. You aren't very good at this dodging thing. Better give it up.
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:30 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't feel I have lost any freedoms. I choose to wear a mask. And, if so inclined, I might choose not to wear one. Keyword:choose.
Which comes back to the choice of spreading the virus, and the choice not to.

The thing is that we already know that it is constitutionally acceptable for Governments to overrule people's choices for safety reasons, take for example your choice to wear a seatbelt, or your choice to drink and drive. How does having to wear a mask differ in loss of liberties and freedoms?
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:42 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Which comes back to the choice of spreading the virus, and the choice not to.

The thing is that we already know that it is constitutionally acceptable for Governments to overrule people's choices for safety reasons, take for example your choice to wear a seatbelt, or your choice to drink and drive. How does having to wear a mask differ in loss of liberties and freedoms?
Collective action problem coming into direct conflict with the conservative conception of "rugged individualism", where every individual is an island and have total mastery of their own fate.
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:46 AM   #325
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That and "I don't care if my actions hurt other people" and "I don't care if my actions hurt other people oh and I'm doing things specifically TO hurt other people" sort of have had their lines blurred in the last few years.

The former is... certainly not an admirable quality but at least it's something that sort of resembles an actual stance to argued in certain contexts if you squint at it and look sideways. The latter is just evil with pretensions.
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:47 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Collective action problem coming into direct conflict with the conservative conception of "rugged individualism", where every individual is an island and have total mastery of their own fate.
Much better to have the government dictate your actions, I say.
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:47 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
That and "I don't care if my actions hurt other people" and "I don't care if my actions hurt other people oh and I'm doing things specifically TO hurt other people" sort of have had their lines blurred in the last few years.

The former is... certainly not an admirable quality but at least it's something that sort of resembles an actual stance to argued in certain contexts if you squint at it and look sideways. The latter is just evil with pretensions.
The latter makes sense once you accept that the conservative ethos is one that is openly hostile to the concept of being a member of a society, with the burdens and privileges that come attached. The conservative id yearns for building a Ruby Ridge style shanty house and living a life of total isolation.

With that in mind, the pointlessly malicious potshots at their own local communities make sense.
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:48 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Only idiots avoid the vaccine...and DeSantis is not anti-vax, at all.
DeSantis' record on vaccinations is not as clean as you make it out to be.

Granted, he has never made claims about vaccines not working, or told people specifically to avoid them. But, he has stood in the way of vaccine passports, most famously in the case of cruise ships that wanted to ensure all customers were vaccinated.

So he was quite happy turning ships into floating petri dishes for disease transmission. And why? And for whom? It wasn't for the benefit of businesses (since it was the cruise lines that wanted the vaccine mandates in the first place).

Quote:
Quote:
Look what another maskless experiment has resulted in...
Nearly 1,000 Mississippi school students test positive for COVID-19 in past week
And? All due to the masks, yo. Give me another break. How many are going to die, and how does this suddenly impact FL and DeSantis?
First of all, even a small number of deaths should be seen as significant and something to be avoided, especially if the way to prevent those deaths (i.e. a mask mandate) is so simple and has no inherent risks.

Secondly, by concentrating only on deaths you ignore much of the impact of covid has... many people get hospitalized. Many people suffer from 'long covid'. Even if someone has mild or no symptoms, they will still have to be quarantined (as well as their family and other close contacts), which of course affects their ability to earn a living. (I am sure the parents of those children would rather not be stuck at home with their kids, isolated for several weeks.) At least some of those cases could be prevented by mask mandates.
Quote:
and how does this suddenly impact FL and DeSantis?
The Mississippi school case may have been in a different state, but it illustrates how a lack of a mask mandate can impact a population. And DeSantis wants to repeat the same foolishness that has caused problems in other locations.
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:49 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Much better to have the government dictate your actions, I say.
The government's entire purpose is to A) handle public money and B) dictate your actions. You act as if it's a new thing or something that exists only in certain societies. It's always existed because it's a fundamental aspect of human culture.

How about seatbelts? Are they a grievous infringement on your civil liberties and the government telling you what to do? Or are they a sensible or at least debatable law?
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:50 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Much better to have the government dictate your actions, I say.
The Government dictates a lot of your actions, in fact, there are very few actions that they can't dictate or regulate. Those are covered in the Bill of Rights. Guess what, choosing whether to wear a mask or not is not covered.
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:51 AM   #331
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The most humorous part of this is, I deleted about 150 FB "friends" who were covid deniers and anti-vaxxers. But, not because I felt they should be denied their freedoms...simply because I felt they were idiots.
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:52 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The most humorous part of this is, I deleted about 150 FB "friends" who were covid deniers and anti-vaxxers. But, not because I felt they should be denied their freedoms...simply because I felt they were idiots.
How many have since been deleted from reality?
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:53 AM   #333
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
The most humorous part of this is, I deleted about 150 FB "friends" who were covid deniers and anti-vaxxers. But, not because I felt they should be denied their freedoms...simply because I felt they were idiots.
You just said no freedom is being denied. Which is it?
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:53 AM   #334
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
How many have since been deleted from reality?
Their choice.
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:56 AM   #335
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
You just said no freedom is being denied. Which is it?
I said I didn't feel my freedom was being denied, because I would make my own choice. Is this another attempt to boost your post count?
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:56 AM   #336
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Their choice.
How does this free-wheeling attitude extend to school age children, who as of yet are not approved to receive any vaccine? Should they be compelled to attend schools that will not take even modest steps to ensure their safety?

DeSantis is not giving them a choice.
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:57 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I said I didn't feel my freedom was being denied, because I would make my own choice.
Isn't that true for everybody?
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:59 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
How does this free-wheeling attitude extend to school age children, who as of yet are not approved to receive any vaccine? Should they be compelled to attend schools that will not take even modest steps to ensure their safety?

DeSantis is not giving them a choice.
Ain't much of them kids gonna die, bro. We covered the count, earlier in the thread.
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Old 13th August 2021, 06:59 AM   #339
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Mod WarningPlease stick to the topic, address what people have actually said (not what you think they might say), and keep it civil.

Thank you.
Responding to this mod box in thread will be off topic Posted By:zooterkin
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:07 AM   #340
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Ain't much of them kids gonna die, bro. We covered the count, earlier in the thread.
Who is this "we" you speak of? You carry a rat in your pocket? Your version of the "count" has nothing to do with reality or science.
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:08 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Who is this "we" you speak of? You carry a rat in your pocket? Your version of the "count" has nothing to do with reality or science.
From the same crowd that said this will be over in April - of 2020.
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:10 AM   #342
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Who is this "we" you speak of? You carry a rat in your pocket? Your version of the "count" has nothing to do with reality or science.
Firstly, yes, I do carry a rat in my pocket.

Secondly, we went over that the covid death rate for children, as reported, has been 0-.03% of total deaths, per state. A total of 358 deaths, overall.
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:11 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Ain't much of them kids gonna die, bro. We covered the count, earlier in the thread.
How many have to die before it's unacceptable? Are you willing to be the one to tell their parents how the sacrifice of their child is acceptable?

And how about the thousands that could end up hospitalized? Or those that could end up with long Covid for potentially the rest of their lives?

How about their families? Is it their choice then their kid brings it home from school and infects them?
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:11 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Firstly, yes, I do carry a rat in my pocket.
Don't we all?

Quote:
Secondly, we went over that the civic death rate for children, as reported, has been 0-.03% of total deaths, per state.
The overall death rate for people is 2%. That's pretty damned high, and that doesn't include people who end up with long-term or permanent health issues, including cardiovascular, pulmonary or neurological disorders. I know empathy is overrated, but it has its place.
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:14 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Firstly, yes, I do carry a rat in my pocket.

Secondly, we went over that the covid death rate for children, as reported, has been 0-.03% of total deaths, per state. A total of 358 deaths, overall.
Thanks for clarifying...wanted to know who the "we" referred to. I guess the rat is your subject expert.
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:15 AM   #346
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Firstly, yes, I do carry a rat in my pocket.

Secondly, we went over that the covid death rate for children, as reported, has been 0-.03% of total deaths, per state. A total of 358 deaths, overall.
Before the measles vaccine, there were around 1,000 cases of encephalitis and maybe 500 deaths in the USA per year. And we require a measles vaccine for kids to attend public schools. I'm not understanding your argument, if there is one here.
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:16 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Before the measles vaccine, there were around 1,000 cases of encephalitis and maybe 500 deaths in the USA per year. And we require a measles vaccine for kids to attend public schools. I'm not understanding your argument, if there is one here.
But this is different because it affects me!
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:21 AM   #348
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There's less than 20,000 murders a year, but I imagine most of these people downplaying the severity of the covid death rate would not advocate a similar "hands off" approach to this objectively less severe threat.

I wonder how much of this stance is simply stubbornness and a refusal to admit that conservatives have been dead wrong about covid at every step.
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:24 AM   #349
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Before the measles vaccine, there were around 1,000 cases of encephalitis and maybe 500 deaths in the USA per year. And we require a measles vaccine for kids to attend public schools. I'm not understanding your argument, if there is one here.
This is the thing, none of these things are new. De Santis and other republicans are fighting battles over things that the US has been doing for years, but they are only upset about those things happening for Covid. There were lockdowns and mask mandates in 1918. Vaccinations have been mandated, and even in the case of smallpox forced vaccinations occurred.

Oddly enough the freedom-loving small-government Republicans are all for a Governor telling local authorities that they aren't allowed to make free choices to protect public safety in their areas.
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:25 AM   #350
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Before the measles vaccine, there were around 1,000 cases of encephalitis and maybe 500 deaths in the USA per year. And we require a measles vaccine for kids to attend public schools. I'm not understanding your argument, if there is one here.
Maybe we shouldn't require that vaccine? Especially now.
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:29 AM   #351
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Maybe we shouldn't require that vaccine? Especially now.
The Republican Party. We're happy to kill your kids, but only after they're out of the womb!
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:32 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Maybe we shouldn't require that vaccine? Especially now.
Especially now that there's a pandemic? It seems like they're kinda required now.
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:33 AM   #353
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The Republican Party. We're happy to kill your kids, but only after they're out of the womb!
That sort of suggests that Democrats are more than happy to kill them in the womb. Way OT, either way.
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:43 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Maybe we shouldn't require that vaccine? Especially now.
I disagree. Living in a first-world, Western country, I like the idea of not dealing with the hassle of measles outbreaks making people sick and killing us.

May I ask - why "especially now" is in your response? Would "now" be an especially good time to re-introduce measles outbreaks for some reason?
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:44 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
That sort of suggests that Democrats are more than happy to kill them in the womb.
Only in the same way to my liking red cars suggests that my neighbour likes blue ones.

Quote:
Way OT, either way.
The Republican party being for killing kids is totally on topic. It is the topic. By banning mask mandates more kids are going to get infected, that means more will be hospitalised, and the more that are infected and hospitalised, the more are going to die. De Santis apparently thinks it's a great idea.

Republicans: Killing kids to pwn the Libs, cause we have no policies anyone likes.
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:44 AM   #356
shemp
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
One of the responses to that tweet:

Quote:
"Out of the four deceased, three were not vaccinated, but one was set to get the vaccine, said Union president Anna Fusco, per NBC Miami
I guess thinking about getting the vaccine isn't quite as good as actually getting it, innit?
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"There is a virus here — it kills people. And the only way we prevent it is to get vaccinated, to wear masks, to do social distancing, washing your hands all the time, and not just to think about, 'Well, my freedom is being kind of disturbed here.' No, screw your freedom — because with freedom comes obligations and responsibilities. You cannot just say, 'I have the right to X, Y, and Z.' When you affect other people then it gets serious." -- Arnold Schwarzenegger
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:47 AM   #357
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
May I ask - why "especially now" is in your response? Would "now" be an especially good time to re-introduce measles outbreaks for some reason?
What're a few more dead kids. If they get lucky they might even be getting rid of future democrats given that minorities are more susceptible to these viruses.
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:48 AM   #358
shemp
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Meanwhile, Ron DeathSantis' bluff is called, and he meekly mucks his cards:

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis softens school board threats. It will be on them to cut their own pay


Quote:
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Gov. Ron DeSantis’ administration signaled earlier this week that it would slash the pay of Florida school superintendents and school board members who defy the governor on school masks .

But now — as two Florida districts, including Broward County Public Schools, remain defiant — the governor’s office is acknowledging the state has no control over local employees’ pay. His spokesperson called on “activist, anti-science school board members” to dock their own salaries if the state follows through with financial sanctions against their district.
Yeah Ron, they might just cut their own pay, ya betcha!

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"There is a virus here — it kills people. And the only way we prevent it is to get vaccinated, to wear masks, to do social distancing, washing your hands all the time, and not just to think about, 'Well, my freedom is being kind of disturbed here.' No, screw your freedom — because with freedom comes obligations and responsibilities. You cannot just say, 'I have the right to X, Y, and Z.' When you affect other people then it gets serious." -- Arnold Schwarzenegger
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:48 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Republicans: Killing kids to pwn the Libs, cause we have no policies anyone likes.
Owning the libs IS their policy.
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Old 13th August 2021, 07:48 AM   #360
carlitos
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Quote:
"Out of the four deceased, three were not vaccinated, but one was set to get the vaccine, said Union president Anna Fusco, per NBC Miami
Union president Anna Fusco didn't learn proper conjunction use in school, I'm thinking.

More elegant phrasing - "none of these dead people got the free covid shot."
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