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Tags Coronavirus

View Poll Results: Who do you blame?
Trump. He should have at least done a PSA encouraging people to get vaccinated. 42 37.84%
Right wing media for almost embracing an anti-vax sentiment 67 60.36%
Republican Governors particularly Desantis and Abbott 50 45.05%
Internet know it alls that don't actually. 30 27.03%
The Republican party for trying to be as crazy as Trump. 52 46.85%
Joe Biden for not being persuasive enough 3 2.70%
The Democrats because shouldn't we blame them? 3 2.70%
The public for being just too stupid. 59 53.15%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 15th August 2021, 08:42 AM   #41
TragicMonkey
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I blame Anita Doth. She could have done more to prevent this.
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Old 15th August 2021, 08:42 AM   #42
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In the interest of keeping it fair and balanced, I blame the eskimos. I mean, other groups get their fair share of hate for various things, including the ones in the poll, but also Jews, Muslims, Chinese, you name it. But nobody ever blames the eskimos. Well, I'm ending that injustice here and now
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Old 15th August 2021, 09:03 AM   #43
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Oh, it's probably all my fault, everything is. Well, I am white, male and in my late sixties!
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Old 15th August 2021, 10:21 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I think if people were honest about it, both parties hold some blame.
Before the election dems were openly saying they wouldn't trust a "Trump vaccine", as if the orange turd was boiling up a batch in a vat behind the White House personally.
Then after the election you get the uber-nutty right going full CT, and crickets from anyone in right wing media to quell that nonsense.
So here we are, right smack in the middle of, Anti-Vax part II: the Pandemic.
I've been spending a lot of time lately reminding anyone who is openly terrified of the Covid vaccine, who, exactly the Bastard Wakefield is, and the damage he's done to the miracle of modern medicine with the anti-vax movement his lies started.
Who said that? I know of no prominent Democrat who said that. More revisionist narratives. People were reasonably concerned that Trump was rushing the process because he made statements to that effect.

BTW, it is generally not Democrats hesitant to be vaccinated. It's also no coincidence that states and areas that voted for Trump are also the least vaccinated and now the most infected.

Out of curiosity why do you think Trump didn't show himself getting the vaccine or doing any PSAs? Why have the Republicans ignored the danger to health?
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Old 15th August 2021, 10:22 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by SteveAitch View Post
Oh, it's probably all my fault, everything is. Well, I am white, male and in my late sixties!
Somebody has a persecution problem.
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Old 15th August 2021, 10:34 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Who said that? I know of no prominent Democrat who said that. More revisionist narratives. People were reasonably concerned that Trump was rushing the process because he made statements to that effect.

BTW, it is generally not Democrats hesitant to be vaccinated. It's also no coincidence that states and areas that voted for Trump are also the least vaccinated and now the most infected.

Out of curiosity why do you think Trump didn't show himself getting the vaccine or doing any PSAs? Why have the Republicans ignored the danger to health?
I will cede the cautionary aspect of the statements, but the statement not to trust Trump on it stands.

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Old 15th August 2021, 10:43 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Except a whole lot of people are effectively "poodles" who are easily manipulated. Yes, each individual is ultimately responsible for their decisions. But at a societal level, when a leader advocates irresponsible behavior (the impacts of which are easily predictable) ​the leader bears responsibility.

"Poodle" doesn't quite capture the vibe of a Trump cultist.
I hear that, but voluntarily submitting to a puppet master I consider to be still the entire responsibility of the actor. We heard, for example, both Presidents Trump and Biden speak. We responded favorably, by choice, to the one who represented what we thought was best. Or better, as the case may be. Willful brainwashing is still a voluntary act of will.
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Old 15th August 2021, 10:47 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I will cede the cautionary aspect of the statements, but the statement not to trust Trump on it stands.

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Really? You think that backs you up? That a prominent Democrat doesn't trust Trump on his word, but trusts the doctors?

My question to you is why would anyone trust a word out of Trump's mouth? Obviously some people do.
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Old 15th August 2021, 11:21 AM   #49
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A lot of “Trump vaccine” vs “A real vaccine” comes from that stunt Russia did where they said they had a vaccine rearing to go back almost exactly one year ago. The vaccine was an obvious conjob by Putin, but you could almost smell Trump drooling over the chance to get some in circulation before any local testing or approval.
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Old 15th August 2021, 11:39 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Of course itís comforting to blame your opponents for whatever is wrong. Youíre lying to me in pretending otherwise, and quite possibly to yourself as well. And itís not demonstrably true. Itís demonstrably false. I just demonstrated it. The least vaccinated groups arenít Republicans or Fox viewers.
But there you're wrong. You asked for "what demographic has the lowest vaccination rate", not which ethnic group or race, which is what you really wanted. So to answer your original question:

The least vaccinated group is Republicans who are overwhelmingly Fox viewers.
Quote:
The 2019 Pew survey showed that among people who named Fox News as their main source for political and election news, 93% identify as Republicans.

Black people are overwhelmingly Democrats. In 2016, 70% of Blacks were registered Dem, 23% Indies, and only 2% Republican. The GOP is overwhelmingly white at 83%.

Vaccinations rate by political party:

Quote:
The nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation found that 75% of Democrats have already been vaccinated; just 41% of Republicans said the same. Blue states are more likely to have tighter mask or vaccines rules; colleges that require vaccination, for example, are more likely to be located in states President Joe Biden won last November, KFF reports.
https://www.usnews.com/news/the-repo...litical-divide

It is demonstrably true, as evidenced above, that the demographic least vaccinated are Fox watching Republicans.
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Old 15th August 2021, 11:40 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Oh, the irony.
As demonstrated by my post directly above, you are wrong again.
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Old 15th August 2021, 11:52 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I think if people were honest about it, both parties hold some blame.
Before the election dems were openly saying they wouldn't trust a "Trump vaccine", as if the orange turd was boiling up a batch in a vat behind the White House personally.
Then after the election you get the uber-nutty right going full CT, and crickets from anyone in right wing media to quell that nonsense.
So here we are, right smack in the middle of, Anti-Vax part II: the Pandemic.
I've been spending a lot of time lately reminding anyone who is openly terrified of the Covid vaccine, who, exactly the Bastard Wakefield is, and the damage he's done to the miracle of modern medicine with the anti-vax movement his lies started.
You're misrepresenting what was actually said. Both Biden and Harris said to trust the scientists on the vaccine, not just Trump. Wise words considering Trump is a pathological liar.

Biden:
Quote:
ďLet me be clear: I trust vaccines, I trust scientists, but I donít trust Donald Trump,Ē Biden said. ďAt this moment, the American people canít either.Ē

ďScientific breakthroughs donít care about calendars any more than the virus does. They certainly donít adhere to election cycles. And their timing, their approval and distribution, should never, ever be distorted by political considerations,Ē he said.

ďThere has to be total transparency, so scientists outside the government know what is being approved,Ē Biden said. ďIím saying, trust the scientist.Ē
Harris:
Quote:
"If the public-health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it ó absolutely," the California senator said during the first and only vice-presidential debate.

"But if Donald Trump tells us we should take it, I'm not taking it."
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Old 15th August 2021, 11:55 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
A lot of ďTrump vaccineĒ vs ďA real vaccineĒ comes from that stunt Russia did where they said they had a vaccine rearing to go back almost exactly one year ago. The vaccine was an obvious conjob by Putin, but you could almost smell Trump drooling over the chance to get some in circulation before any local testing or approval.
He saw it as a way to counter his abysmal handling of the pandemic which had not 'just magically disappeared'.
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Old 15th August 2021, 12:58 PM   #54
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The intial surge: Mother Nature.
The resisntect to the vaccine and other methods to contain it: Trump and the GOP. With special attention to the religous right, which hates science anyway because it conflicts with their book of Fairy Tales.
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Old 15th August 2021, 01:50 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That may well be a contributing factor. But thatís not exactly Fox Newsí fault, nor are Democrats any less blameless for that historical injustice than Republicans.
This factor not being from the GOP and their media in no way mitigates that they're overwhelmingly the problem driving this current surge. You might as well go on about how there aren't enough vaccine doses in India.

If you shoot a diabetic, their illness being a factor in their death doesn't make you not a murderer.
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Old 15th August 2021, 02:37 PM   #56
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Not exactly a prominent democrat today, but last year...

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This'll be my last comment on this, I'm not equipped to try and spar here. It's like I've brought a paper towel tube to a sword fight.
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Old 15th August 2021, 02:47 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Not exactly a prominent democrat today, but last year...

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This'll be my last comment on this, I'm not equipped to try and spar here. It's like I've brought a paper towel tube to a sword fight.
Do you actually review the video links you post Mike? Just curious.
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Old 15th August 2021, 02:47 PM   #58
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Any boomer without polio or smallpox that is blissfully ignorant of why they don't.
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Old 15th August 2021, 02:54 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Take a guess what demographic has the lowest vaccination rate.

Go on, I'll wait.
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And you still canít put 2 and 2 together. You make excuses for why they arenít vaccinated, but the virus doesnít care why. To the extent that vaccine hesitancy is contributing to the current surge, blaming it all on Republicans or Fox News may be comforting, but it isnít really true.
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Of course itís comforting to blame your opponents for whatever is wrong. Youíre lying to me in pretending otherwise, and quite possibly to yourself as well. And itís not demonstrably true. Itís demonstrably false. I just demonstrated it. The least vaccinated groups arenít Republicans or Fox viewers.

Yeah, blame it all on the mud people... who knew that would be your position?
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Old 15th August 2021, 02:56 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Fidelio View Post
Any boomer without polio or smallpox that is blissfully ignorant of why they don't.
This is one of the things that makes me so sad about this. A good number of my peers are against getting the vaccine for assorted stupid reasons, and they are the same people I went to grade school with, who stood in line with me to get the smallpox shot, at school. No one questioned (At least from my memory) getting it then.

Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Do you actually review the video links you post Mike? Just curious.
Often times, not start to finish... If I think it's made my point, I go for it. It's why I look foolish posting in politics, a lot. I've learned to live with it.
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Last edited by Mike!; 15th August 2021 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:00 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
This is one of the things that makes me so sad about this. A good number of my pears are against getting the vaccine, and they are the same people I went to grade school with, who stood in line with me to get the smallpox shot, at school. No one questioned (At least from my memory) getting it then.
I usually don't point out spelling errors, but I love this one.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:03 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I usually don't point out spelling errors, but I love this one.
Speaking of looking foolish posting in politics.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:10 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Speaking of looking foolish posting in politics.
That's a spelling error. I make them all the time. Nothing foolish about it. That the error spelled another word makes the spellcheck ignore it.

I just like the idea that your pears had issues with the vaccine. I was going to ask, how do your apples feel about it.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:11 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Not exactly a prominent democrat today, but last year...

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This'll be my last comment on this, I'm not equipped to try and spar here. It's like I've brought a paper towel tube to a sword fight.
Mike, you might try actually listening to the videos you post. Just like in the last one where you misrepresented what Harris was saying, this one also does not support your claim. This video is of Cuomo's statements before the election last year where Trump was making promises about the vaccines before the trials were complete and before the FDA was anywhere near authorizing their emergency use. He's saying trust the FDA and the science to do their jobs, not Trump. Just like Biden and Harris were saying.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:13 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
That's a spelling error. I make them all the time. Nothing foolish about it. That the error spelled another word makes the spellcheck ignore it.

I just like the idea that your pears had issues with the vaccine. I was going to ask, how do your apples feel about it.
Stop comparing apples to pears.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:19 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
This is one of the things that makes me so sad about this. A good number of my peers are against getting the vaccine for assorted stupid reasons, and they are the same people I went to grade school with, who stood in line with me to get the smallpox shot, at school. No one questioned (At least from my memory) getting it then.



Often times, not start to finish... If I think it's made my point, I go for it. It's why I look foolish posting in politics, a lot. I've learned to live with it.
It very much didn't make your point. Cuomo was expressing hesitancy to trust the federal government because Trump was pressuring the FDA to approve the vaccine before the necessary research had been done, in order to improve his election chances. He also said he'd have medical advisors look at it and recommend to him what to do -- the exact opposite of what Trump wanted. And he talked about developing a distribution plan as well -- something the Trump administration never did. In the end, the FDA stood up to Trump and didn't give emergency approval until they had sufficient data to do so.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:21 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Fidelio View Post
Any boomer without polio or smallpox that is blissfully ignorant of why they don't.
To be fair, boomers and older are the demographic least likely to be blissfully ignorant of smallpox and polio... most anti-vaxxers are the younger, post-boomer demographic

Boomers were born between 1946 and 1964. They're currently between 57 and 75 years old, while those in the age group 45 to 54 years old are 26% more likely than any other to oppose vaccinations.
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If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:29 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
To be fair, boomers and older are the demographic least likely to be blissfully ignorant of smallpox and polio... most anti-vaxxers are the younger, post-boomer demographic

Boomers were born between 1946 and 1964. They're currently between 57 and 75 years old, while those in the age group 45 to 54 years old are 26% more likely than any other to oppose vaccinations.
Most boomers have a scar on their shoulder from that smallpox vaccine. I do.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:31 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
To be fair, boomers and older are the demographic least likely to be blissfully ignorant of smallpox and polio... most anti-vaxxers are the younger, post-boomer demographic

Boomers were born between 1946 and 1964. They're currently between 57 and 75 years old, while those in the age group 45 to 54 years old are 26% more likely than any other to oppose vaccinations.
Couple other interesting findings in that study. One was that 60% consider themselves liberal (American left), which I find hard to believe. And the poor (making less than $25K USD/yr) are 50% more likely to be antivaxxers.

Not surprisingly, those who feel their vote doesn't matter are a whopping 69% more likely to be antivaxxers.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:35 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Couple other interesting findings in that tweet. One was that 60% consider themselves liberal (American left), which I find hard to believe. And the poor (making less than $25K USD/yr) are 50% more likely to be antivaxxers.

Not surprisingly, those who feel their vote doesn't matter are a whopping 69% more likely to be antivaxxers.
You're going to have to provide citations. Otherwise I will have to conclude that you pulled those stats from your ass.

Personally, I don't care for **** sandwiches.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:39 PM   #71
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Re: Hesitancy toward the Trump Vaccine...

Mike,

The problem with Trump is that his time-table was informed by the election -- meaning his own self-interest -- and not public health. After the election, Trump should have prioritized a smooth transition, but didn't, again in a misguided pursuit of his own self-interest. Other leaders publicly received their vaccine shots. Trump did not. Trump's own medical health was a ladder of lies from being the healthiest person in the history of presidential candidates to his height (gained an inch in his mid-seventies) and weight. You don't think hypothetical "vaccine hesitancy" is warranted when faced with such a nakedly transactional bad faith actor?
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:41 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Fidelio View Post
Any boomer without polio or smallpox that is blissfully ignorant of why they don't.
I'm a boomer, and my mom (not an early adopter of anything) rushed us kids into the earlies polio vaccines that existed. I know a lot about polio.

There are a lot of young deniers, as well.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:44 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
You're going to have to provide citations. Otherwise I will have to conclude that you pulled those stats from your ass.

Personally, I don't care for **** sandwiches.
It was in the post above mine? In the link? Must I really repost it? Click challenged today, are we?

Eta: in fairness tho the study was from 2015.
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Old 15th August 2021, 03:59 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Re: Hesitancy toward the Trump Vaccine...

Mike,

The problem with Trump is that his time-table was informed by the election -- meaning his own self-interest -- and not public health. After the election, Trump should have prioritized a smooth transition, but didn't, again in a misguided pursuit of his own self-interest. Other leaders publicly received their vaccine shots. Trump did not. Trump's own medical health was a ladder of lies from being the healthiest person in the history of presidential candidates to his height (gained an inch in his mid-seventies) and weight. You don't think hypothetical "vaccine hesitancy" is warranted when faced with such a nakedly transactional bad faith actor?
I never said anything even close to supporting him, or his actions, my shabby efforts were trying to find the requested "prominent democrats" that were saying not to trust the "Trump vaccine", and clearly I failed. So, without citation, I will simply say, a lot of democrats did take the statements I posted as saying not to trust any vaccine created under Trump, understandable or not. Those were the first seeds sown in the current Covid anti-vax movement, at least from my perspective.

And let me reiterate again, any modern anti-vaccine propaganda infuriates me beyond words for very personal reasons. The millions of dollars, and years of wasted lab time, attempting to replicate the claims of the Bastard Andrew Wakefield (Not to even scratch the surface of the loons who continue to follow him even after he admitted to the lies and fabrications) is time and money that could have gone into real research into the cause and treatment of autism, and that can never be recovered.
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Old 15th August 2021, 04:02 PM   #75
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People are stupid and easily misled, I have #2, 4, 8.
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Old 15th August 2021, 04:27 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
It was in the post above mine? In the link? Must I really repost it? Click challenged today, are we?

Eta: in fairness tho the study was from 2015.
In other words, it has ABSOLUTELY ******* NOTHING to do with COVID.

Thanks.
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Old 15th August 2021, 04:31 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by carrps View Post
I'm a boomer, and my mom (not an early adopter of anything) rushed us kids into the earlies polio vaccines that existed. I know a lot about polio.

There are a lot of young deniers, as well.
My grandmother almost died of smallpox at age 17. Her brother was crippled. They lived through the polio outbreaks during the summers. My mom was diligent about keeping my sister's and my vaccinations up to date just as I was with my daughter. I'm also a boomer born right in the middle.

I think a lot of anti-vaxxers formed their beliefs because they never lived through an epidemic (ironically due to vaccines) and tend to be low-income and poorly educated. These are the same demographics of those most likely to believe in conspiracy theories. Low income is most often the direct result of a low education level.

Quote:
Among other things, studies find that people are more likely to endorse conspiracy theories if they feel alienated, powerless and disadvantaged, and if they are distrustful of others. Conspiratorial thinking is also associated with narcissism, rejection of climate science, and an individual's own willingness to participate in conspiracies. Additionally, a variety of demographic factors have been found to predict conspiratorial thinking, including low levels of education.
It's interesting to note that narcissism is an indicator of a tendency to believe in conspiracies. Who does that bring to mind?

Quote:
Most importantly, the relationship between education and conspiratorial beliefs could be explained in part by the association between each of these factors and the tendency to ascribe human attributes to non-humans. This suggests that education reduces over-attribution of agency and intentionality, and that this reduction decreases the appeal of conspiracy theories, which often posit one or more agents behind a constellation of potentially unrelated events
Quote:
The second paper, authored by psychologist Jan-Willem van Prooijen and forthcoming in the journal Applied Cognitive Psychology, finds support for two additional mediating factors: skepticism towards the idea that complex problems can have simple solutions, and greater feelings of control.

Across two samples of Dutch participants (one including 4,062 readers of a Dutch popular science magazine and the second a group of 1,251 adults selected to be representative of the Dutch population), participants with higher levels of education were more likely to disagree with statements suggesting simple solutions to complex problems, such as: "With the right policies, most problems in society are easy to solve." Participants with higher levels of education also felt that they had greater control over their political environment ó they were less likely to report feeling powerless when watching how events unfold in the news, and more likely to agree with a statement such as: "Citizens can influence government decisions;" or "It is possible to object against government decisions." Most importantly, both of these factors also predicted skepticism towards conspiracy theories, with further analyses suggesting that the association between education and conspiratorial thinking was mediated by both of these factors.
https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/20...-theory-belief

Anti-vaxxers tend to be low income, poorly educated, feel powerless, and see simple solutions for complex problems. So it should not be surprising that people with those characteristics would be fertile ground for embracing a resistance to getting a Covid vaccination.
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Old 15th August 2021, 04:42 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I never said anything even close to supporting him, or his actions, my shabby efforts were trying to find the requested "prominent democrats" that were saying not to trust the "Trump vaccine", and clearly I failed. So, without citation, I will simply say, a lot of democrats did take the statements I posted as saying not to trust any vaccine created under Trump, understandable or not. Those were the first seeds sown in the current Covid anti-vax movement, at least from my perspective.
If anyone, Dems, GOP, Indies, did... then they were not listening to what was actually being said. That would not surprise me. People read headline, listen to soundbites and don't read or listen to the entirety of what is said. You did exactly that with the 'example' videos you provided.

You are wrong that these were the first seed sown. The first seeds were sown by being told the entire thing was a Dem hoax, that it miraculously would go away, that it wasn't nearly as deadly as was being made out, etc.

Quote:
And let me reiterate again, any modern anti-vaccine propaganda infuriates me beyond words for very personal reasons. The millions of dollars, and years of wasted lab time, attempting to replicate the claims of the Bastard Andrew Wakefield (Not to even scratch the surface of the loons who continue to follow him even after he admitted to the lies and fabrications) is time and money that could have gone into real research into the cause and treatment of autism, and that can never be recovered.
Now, that we can agree on 100%!!
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Old 15th August 2021, 04:44 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
In other words, it has ABSOLUTELY ******* NOTHING to do with COVID.

Thanks.
Ses like you should be taking this up with smartcooky, who actually posted the link? He didn't say he was talking about anything with contemporary or on-topic relevance, Tbf. Perhaps you expect his postings to be irrelevant or deceptive, and demand a higher standard from yours truly? I guess I should be flattered.
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Old 15th August 2021, 05:00 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
I never said anything even close to supporting him...
Just to be clear, I never suggested that you did. I took your comments to mean something about the usual hypocrisy. If we ask people whether or not they support Obama's opposition to the Affordable Care Act, it will be easy to get Democrats to say they do (and Republicans to say the ACA is great!).

In the case of the vaccine, it's true, as far as I know, that a lot of Democrats were vaccine-hesitant, but that's also understandable given the circumstances.
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