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Tags Coronavirus

View Poll Results: Who do you blame?
Trump. He should have at least done a PSA encouraging people to get vaccinated. 42 37.84%
Right wing media for almost embracing an anti-vax sentiment 67 60.36%
Republican Governors particularly Desantis and Abbott 50 45.05%
Internet know it alls that don't actually. 30 27.03%
The Republican party for trying to be as crazy as Trump. 52 46.85%
Joe Biden for not being persuasive enough 3 2.70%
The Democrats because shouldn't we blame them? 3 2.70%
The public for being just too stupid. 59 53.15%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 15th August 2021, 06:40 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Most boomers have a scar on their shoulder from that smallpox vaccine. I do.
And me, and if you are near my age, you probably lined up at school to drink that little paper cup of polio vaccine, and later lined up to have the tuberculosis vaccine shot into your lower forearm with that little gun that left six little red spots on your skin.
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Old 15th August 2021, 06:46 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
And me, and if you are near my age, you probably lined up at school to drink that little paper cup of polio vaccine, and later lined up to have the tuberculosis vaccine shot into your lower forearm with that little gun that left six little red spots on your skin.
Yep! The sugar cube. Remember it well.
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Old 15th August 2021, 06:48 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
.... later lined up to have the tuberculosis vaccine shot into your lower forearm with that little gun that left six little red spots on your skin.
That would be a skin test, not a vaccine.

BCG vaccine is given in some countries but it is administered like the smallpox vaccine is, one needle you poke repeatedly in one spot on the upper arm and it usually forms a scab and sometimes a scar like one's smallpox vaccine scar.
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Old 15th August 2021, 07:10 PM   #84
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There is probably nothing more ignorant than trying to pin this on a political party, when you know that only 50% of the country is fully vaccinated.
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Old 15th August 2021, 07:30 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
That would be a skin test, not a vaccine.
Well that just shows you are never too old to learn something new.

I know I was vaccinated against tuberculosis in the early 1960s (its on my vaccine record card) and I had assumed that childhood memory was me getting that vaccine.
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Old 15th August 2021, 07:40 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
There is probably nothing more ignorant than trying to pin this on a political party, when you know that only 50% of the country is fully vaccinated.
Are you responding to anyone, or are you just making your usual evening rounds of posting crap?
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Old 16th August 2021, 04:44 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warp12
There is probably nothing more ignorant than trying to pin this on a political party, when you know that only 50% of the country is fully vaccinated.
OK, lets address this utter BS post with some facts.

These are the Covid 19 vaccination rates in all the US States and DC as of Friday 13 August, 2021, in descending order of percentage of population vaccinated

The Red states voted for Trump in 2020
The Blue states voted for Biden in 2020

%......State
------------------------------------------------
66.78 Vermont
64.59 Massachusetts
64.42 Maine
64.13 Connecticut
62.44 Rhode Island
59.73 Maryland
59.34 New Jersey
58.68 New Hampshire
58.50 Washington
58.06 New York
58.05 New Mexico
56.62 Oregon
55.91 District of Columbia
55.40 Virginia
55.22 Colorado
54.42 Minnesota
54.08 Hawaii
53.89 California
53.51 Delaware
53.32 Pennsylvania
52.38 Wisconsin

50.24 Iowa
50.21 Nebraska
49.92 Florida

49.38 Michigan
49.36 Illinois

47.66 South Dakota
47.09 Ohio
46.44 Kentucky
46.09 Kansas
46.02 Alaska

46.01 Arizona
45.84 Utah
45.46 Nevada
44.86 Indiana
44.83 Montana
44.83 Texas
44.46 North Carolina
42.58 Missouri
41.36 South Carolina
41.15 Oklahoma
40.54 North Dakota
39.81 Tennessee

39.40 Georgia
39.25 West Virginia
38.02 Arkansas
37.90 Louisiana
37.88 Idaho
37.26 Wyoming
35.47 Mississippi
35.09 Alabama



Average vaccination rate of Democrat States ~ 56.7%
Average vaccination rate of Republican States ~ 42.9%

22 of the top 25 states for vaccination rates are Democrat + DC
22 of the bottom 25 states for vaccination rates are Republican

Source: https://www.beckershospitalreview.co...-march-15.html

Care to revise your bull-**** statement?
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► Evolution is "survival of the fittest" - the fittest being those who are stronger, healthier and better adapted. Covid-19 has changed that. The fittest are now the well informed, logical, science believers who listen to the experts and get vaccinated.
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!

Last edited by smartcooky; 16th August 2021 at 05:59 AM.
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Old 16th August 2021, 05:54 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
But there you're wrong. You asked for "what demographic has the lowest vaccination rate", not which ethnic group or race, which is what you really wanted. So to answer your original question:
How dare you counter blatant racism with facts, that is outrageous behavior!
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Old 16th August 2021, 07:03 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
OK, lets address this utter BS post with some facts.

These are the Covid 19 vaccination rates in all the US States and DC as of Friday 13 August, 2021, in descending order of percentage of population vaccinated

The Red states voted for Trump in 2020
The Blue states voted for Biden in 2020

%......State
------------------------------------------------
66.78 Vermont
64.59 Massachusetts
64.42 Maine
64.13 Connecticut
62.44 Rhode Island
59.73 Maryland
59.34 New Jersey
58.68 New Hampshire
58.50 Washington
58.06 New York
58.05 New Mexico
56.62 Oregon
55.91 District of Columbia
55.40 Virginia
55.22 Colorado
54.42 Minnesota
54.08 Hawaii
53.89 California
53.51 Delaware
53.32 Pennsylvania
52.38 Wisconsin

50.24 Iowa
50.21 Nebraska
49.92 Florida

49.38 Michigan
49.36 Illinois

47.66 South Dakota
47.09 Ohio
46.44 Kentucky
46.09 Kansas
46.02 Alaska

46.01 Arizona
45.84 Utah
45.46 Nevada
44.86 Indiana
44.83 Montana
44.83 Texas
44.46 North Carolina
42.58 Missouri
41.36 South Carolina
41.15 Oklahoma
40.54 North Dakota
39.81 Tennessee

39.40 Georgia
39.25 West Virginia
38.02 Arkansas
37.90 Louisiana
37.88 Idaho
37.26 Wyoming
35.47 Mississippi
35.09 Alabama



Average vaccination rate of Democrat States ~ 56.7%
Average vaccination rate of Republican States ~ 42.9%

22 of the top 25 states for vaccination rates are Democrat + DC
22 of the bottom 25 states for vaccination rates are Republican

Source: https://www.beckershospitalreview.co...-march-15.html

Care to revise your bull-**** statement?
While I agree that there is almost certainly a larger conservative resistance to the COVID vaccine, I don't think this data proves it. I note the higher vaccination rates at the top are also wealthier New England States, and down at the bottom, poorer states like Louisiana and Alabsma. Also, more urban states with better distribution systems are at the top, and of course more rural states down low.

Also, check in with acbytesla. He chewed me a new one over your old Jenny McCarthy era antivaxxers stats, which showed that antivaxxers were 60% left leaning.
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Old 16th August 2021, 07:15 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
While I agree that there is almost certainly a larger conservative resistance to the COVID vaccine, I don't think this data proves it. I note the higher vaccination rates at the top are also wealthier New England States, and down at the bottom, poorer states like Louisiana and Alabsma. Also, more urban states with better distribution systems are at the top, and of course more rural states down low.

Oh, I'm sure there are millions of people in small towns all over Louisiana who have been waiting eagerly, month after month, for their chance to get vaccinated, once the mule train arrives in their town.
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Old 16th August 2021, 07:24 AM   #91
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I think a problem with trying to estimate a Left-Right distribution in America is the rather fluid nature of Left-Right dichotomy in the USA. Right now, any one who is not a Republican is considered Leftist. The entire range subsumed by the Left label even in more sensible times covered a much greater range of political and cultural adherents than the right wing.
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Old 16th August 2021, 07:27 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
Oh, I'm sure there are millions of people in small towns all over Louisiana who have been waiting eagerly, month after month, for their chance to get vaccinated, once the mule train arrives in their town.
Come on, man. A lot of the lower vaccinated states were rural, and the top of the charts is high density New England and Mid Atlantic. If smartcooky can draw a correlation without showing causation, so can anyone. Plus I know what year it is, FLA poll notwithstanding.

Eta: per the link, the CDC is reporting 50.7% of the country try fully vaccinated. Smartcooky's data assumes the correlation is strictly political. Given the earlier data of 60% of antivaxxers being left leaning, is it reasonable to assume that many of the unvaccinated in the red states are actually that state's liberals? We are talking about analysis, not assumption.
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Old 16th August 2021, 08:22 AM   #93
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After some thought, I think the current surge can easily be traced back to the late Spring of this year when the mask mandate was lifted and we went with the "Honor System" on mask/vax, as I said back in May, in another thread.

Originally Posted by Mike!
I agree. This will now give cover for all those who refused to get vaccinated or wear a mask to go marching around unmasked. And when they start to get together with all their unvaxed, unmasked pals, it won't be long before the case numbers are on the rise, and we're right back to lock downs again.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2&postcount=98
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Old 16th August 2021, 08:40 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
After some thought, I think the current surge can easily be traced back to the late Spring of this year when the mask mandate was lifted and we went with the "Honor System" on mask/vax, as I said back in May, in another thread.



http://www.internationalskeptics.com...2&postcount=98
Nonsense, we are just going to pretend it isn't happening.
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Old 16th August 2021, 11:03 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And it’s not demonstrably true. It’s demonstrably false. I just demonstrated it.

Where?

I went back though a year of your posts, and I didn't find it.
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Old 16th August 2021, 11:58 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
Where?

I went back though a year of your posts, and I didn't find it.
I picked up on that, too, but just in this thread. Other people provided the links and information, pointed out that Zig wasn't being entirely honest, and Zig not only claimed victory but that he did the work.

A very Trumpian approach.
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Old 16th August 2021, 03:50 PM   #97
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Just got back from my Dad's in Calaveras County, CA. Very conservative area.

Virtually nobody is wearing masks. I picked up a pizza and none of the staff had masks on. That's unusual even for that area.

Saw a Trump/Pence 2020 sign near the grocery store. Big clue! Cashiers had masks, virtually nobody else, excpet me. Younger folk wear them more but I saw very few masks at all.

High covid rate in that county, and the counties surrounding it are even worse. My Dad just found out his housekeeper is anti-vax. I told him he needs to find a new one. She just now told him "Oh by the way I never got vaccinated, see you next week". Not if I can help it.

I come back to San Jose and virtually everyone has masks. My county is looking good by comparison.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...vid-cases.html

I selected maybe 5 options in the poll, but those options all have to do with Republicans and the Right in one way or another (news agencies, people, politicians...).

ETA:
How could I miss Gavin Newsom (Democrat Governor) allowing the threat of a recall election to "force" him to lift mandates too early. He has made some poor decisions.

Of course who forced the BS recall election? Republicans Newsom is not a good governor but right now more political chaos is not a good idea in my opinion.
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Old 16th August 2021, 04:20 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Just got back from my Dad's in Calaveras County, CA. Very conservative area.

Virtually nobody is wearing masks. I picked up a pizza and none of the staff had masks on. That's unusual even for that area.

Saw a Trump/Pence 2020 sign near the grocery store. Big clue! Cashiers had masks, virtually nobody else, excpet me. Younger folk wear them more but I saw very few masks at all.

High covid rate in that county, and the counties surrounding it are even worse. My Dad just found out his housekeeper is anti-vax. I told him he needs to find a new one. She just now told him "Oh by the way I never got vaccinated, see you next week". Not if I can help it.

I come back to San Jose and virtually everyone has masks. My county is looking good by comparison.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...vid-cases.html

I selected maybe 5 options in the poll, but those options all have to do with Republicans and the Right in one way or another (news agencies, people, politicians...).
And in my Beloved Blue Wall Garden State, who went for President Biden, Secretary Clinton, President Obama, President Clinton and more, and who has a Dem Governor, two Dem Senators, and 10 out of 12 Dem Representatives, I see maybe...maybe...1 person in 20 with a mask and not a MAGA hat in sight. I'm often the only one in a public place wearing one.

My parents down in retiree Florida are committed conservatives. They are long vaccinated mask up everywhere because they don't want to ******* die or kill anyone else.

Stupid comes in all political colors, and let's not forget our staggering percentage of eligible voters whose Feild of ***** is barren and don't affiliate with either. Many of them can't be bothered either.

You could argue that Trump supporters have a startling amount of painfully stupid followers in the mix. I won't argue. But don't kid yourself into thinking this is entirely political. Posters here, domestic and foreign alike, are obsessed with everything being political. For the majority of the country, politics are an occasional thought, not an hourly obsession, and every act by every american is not a declaration of political affiliation. IMHO, anyway.
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Old 16th August 2021, 04:47 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
And in my Beloved Blue Wall Garden State, who went for President Biden, Secretary Clinton, President Obama, President Clinton and more, and who has a Dem Governor, two Dem Senators, and 10 out of 12 Dem Representatives, I see maybe...maybe...1 person in 20 with a mask and not a MAGA hat in sight. I'm often the only one in a public place wearing one.

My parents down in retiree Florida are committed conservatives. They are long vaccinated mask up everywhere because they don't want to ******* die or kill anyone else.

Stupid comes in all political colors, and let's not forget our staggering percentage of eligible voters whose Feild of ***** is barren and don't affiliate with either. Many of them can't be bothered either.

You could argue that Trump supporters have a startling amount of painfully stupid followers in the mix. I won't argue. But don't kid yourself into thinking this is entirely political. Posters here, domestic and foreign alike, are obsessed with everything being political. For the majority of the country, politics are an occasional thought, not an hourly obsession, and every act by every american is not a declaration of political affiliation. IMHO, anyway.
Of course it isn't entirely political, but by far the best predictor of if a person will follow any specific supported mitigation policy is political affiliation. One could argue that this is just a proxy for education, intelligence, and craven selfishness, but these political groupings are self-selecting after all, so that's basically the same thing.

Don't pretend we can't assign a lot of blame based on political identity non-compliance with the fake news media hyped, elitists scientists academics driven, dem hoax ChIIna virus policies.
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Old 16th August 2021, 05:04 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Of course it isn't entirely political, but by far the best predictor of if a person will follow any specific supported mitigation policy is political affiliation. One could argue that this is just a proxy for education, intelligence, and craven selfishness, but these political groupings are self-selecting after all, so that's basically the same thing.

Don't pretend we can't assign a lot of blame based on political identity non-compliance with the fake news media hyped, elitists scientists academics driven, dem hoax ChIIna virus policies.
This. Some people are intelligent enough to see past the anti-science crap being spewed by mostly the right media like FOX even if they are conservatives. Being a conservative does not mean they're stupid, believing lying Trump and his anti-fact and anti-science sycophants is stupid.
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Old 16th August 2021, 07:11 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Of course it isn't entirely political, but by far the best predictor of if a person will follow any specific supported mitigation policy is political affiliation. One could argue that this is just a proxy for education, intelligence, and craven selfishness, but these political groupings are self-selecting after all, so that's basically the same thing.

Don't pretend we can't assign a lot of blame based on political identity non-compliance with the fake news media hyped, elitists scientists academics driven, dem hoax ChIIna virus policies.
This!

I do not buy the claim that Blue states are the most vaccinated only because they are richer. That is just complete and utter bull-****.

The Federal government is providing vaccines free of charge to all people living in the United States, regardless of their immigration or health insurance status.. The relative wealth of states has absolutely ZERO to do with vaccination levels, its simply a matter of political affiliation of state populations. Any average American who blindly follows Trump, Taylor-Greene, Boebert, Cruz and the the rest of the anti-vax MAGA nutjobs are FAR LESS likely to get vaccinated than any average Democrat. That is an observable, verifiable fact.
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Last edited by smartcooky; 16th August 2021 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 17th August 2021, 12:37 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
OK, lets address this utter BS post with some facts.

These are the Covid 19 vaccination rates in all the US States and DC as of Friday 13 August, 2021, in descending order of percentage of population vaccinated
I suspect that there is a bit more to it than just the Presidential vote too...

PlaceVaccinatedStatePresidentGovernorLegislature
166.78VermontBidenRepublicanDemocrat
264.59MassachusettsBidenRepublicanDemocrat
364.42MaineBidenDemocratDemocrat
464.13ConnecticutBidenDemocratDemocrat
562.44Rhode IslandBidenDemocratDemocrat
659.73MarylandBidenRepublicanDemocrat
759.34New JerseyBidenDemocratDemocrat
858.68New HampshireBidenRepublicanRepublican
958.50WashingtonBidenDemocratDemocrat
1058.06New YorkBidenDemocratDemocrat
1158.05New MexicoBidenDemocratDemocrat
1256.62OregonBidenDemocratDemocrat
1355.91District of ColumbiaBidenNoneNone
1455.40VirginiaBidenDemocratDemocrat
1555.22ColoradoBidenDemocratDemocrat
1654.42MinnesotaBidenDemocratMixed
1754.08HawaiiBidenDemocratDemocrat
1853.89CaliforniaBidenDemocratDemocrat
1953.51DelawareBidenDemocratDemocrat
2053.32PennsylvaniaBidenDemocratRepublican
2152.38WisconsinBidenDemocratRepublican
2250.24IowaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
2350.21NebraskaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
2449.92FloridaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
2549.38MichiganBidenDemocratRepublican
2649.36IllinoisBidenDemocratDemocrat
2747.66South DakotaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
2847.09OhioTrumpRepublicanRepublican
2946.44KentuckyTrumpDemocratRepublican
3046.09KansasTrumpDemocratRepublican
3146.02AlaskaTrumpRepublicanMixed
3246.01ArizonaBidenRepublicanRepublican
3345.84UtahTrumpRepublicanRepublican
3445.46NevadaBidenDemocratDemocrat
3544.86IndianaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
3644.83MontanaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
3744.83TexasTrumpRepublicanRepublican
3844.46North CarolinaTrumpDemocratRepublican
3942.58MissouriTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4041.36South CarolinaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4141.15OklahomaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4240.54North DakotaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4339.81TennesseeTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4439.40GeorgiaBidenRepublicanRepublican
4539.25West VirginiaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4638.02ArkansasTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4737.90LouisianaTrumpDemocratRepublican
4837.88IdahoTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4937.26WyomingTrumpRepublicanRepublican
5035.47MississippiTrumpRepublicanRepublican
5135.09AlabamaTrumpRepublicanRepublican

I'd suggest that the strongest correlation is with the State's Legislature/General Assembly.
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Old 17th August 2021, 01:08 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
This!

I do not buy the claim that Blue states are the most vaccinated only because they are richer. That is just complete and utter bull-****.

The Federal government is providing vaccines free of charge to all people living in the United States, regardless of their immigration or health insurance status.. The relative wealth of states has absolutely ZERO to do with vaccination levels, its simply a matter of political affiliation of state populations. Any average American who blindly follows Trump, Taylor-Greene, Boebert, Cruz and the the rest of the anti-vax MAGA nutjobs are FAR LESS likely to get vaccinated than any average Democrat. That is an observable, verifiable fact.
Poorer states also tend to have worse education and less effective public health services. It's true that access to the vaccine is free, but whether people choose to do so is dependent on things which may have been chronically underfunded in those states for decades.
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Old 17th August 2021, 01:19 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I suspect that there is a bit more to it than just the Presidential vote too...

PlaceVaccinatedStatePresidentGovernorLegislature
166.78VermontBidenRepublicanDemocrat
264.59MassachusettsBidenRepublicanDemocrat
364.42MaineBidenDemocratDemocrat
464.13ConnecticutBidenDemocratDemocrat
562.44Rhode IslandBidenDemocratDemocrat
659.73MarylandBidenRepublicanDemocrat
759.34New JerseyBidenDemocratDemocrat
858.68New HampshireBidenRepublicanRepublican
958.50WashingtonBidenDemocratDemocrat
1058.06New YorkBidenDemocratDemocrat
1158.05New MexicoBidenDemocratDemocrat
1256.62OregonBidenDemocratDemocrat
1355.91District of ColumbiaBidenNoneNone
1455.40VirginiaBidenDemocratDemocrat
1555.22ColoradoBidenDemocratDemocrat
1654.42MinnesotaBidenDemocratMixed
1754.08HawaiiBidenDemocratDemocrat
1853.89CaliforniaBidenDemocratDemocrat
1953.51DelawareBidenDemocratDemocrat
2053.32PennsylvaniaBidenDemocratRepublican
2152.38WisconsinBidenDemocratRepublican
2250.24IowaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
2350.21NebraskaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
2449.92FloridaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
2549.38MichiganBidenDemocratRepublican
2649.36IllinoisBidenDemocratDemocrat
2747.66South DakotaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
2847.09OhioTrumpRepublicanRepublican
2946.44KentuckyTrumpDemocratRepublican
3046.09KansasTrumpDemocratRepublican
3146.02AlaskaTrumpRepublicanMixed
3246.01ArizonaBidenRepublicanRepublican
3345.84UtahTrumpRepublicanRepublican
3445.46NevadaBidenDemocratDemocrat
3544.86IndianaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
3644.83MontanaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
3744.83TexasTrumpRepublicanRepublican
3844.46North CarolinaTrumpDemocratRepublican
3942.58MissouriTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4041.36South CarolinaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4141.15OklahomaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4240.54North DakotaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4339.81TennesseeTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4439.40GeorgiaBidenRepublicanRepublican
4539.25West VirginiaTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4638.02ArkansasTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4737.90LouisianaTrumpDemocratRepublican
4837.88IdahoTrumpRepublicanRepublican
4937.26WyomingTrumpRepublicanRepublican
5035.47MississippiTrumpRepublicanRepublican
5135.09AlabamaTrumpRepublicanRepublican

I'd suggest that the strongest correlation is with the State's Legislature/General Assembly.
That is even more convincing!
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Old 17th August 2021, 04:10 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I suspect that there is a bit more to it than just the Presidential vote too...
<>
I'd suggest that the strongest correlation is with the State's Legislature/General Assembly.
Who'd be handling local law making.
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Old 17th August 2021, 04:12 AM   #106
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Well just for fun let's add in Position on the Most Federal Dependency list, what percentage of State Revenue is from the Federal Govt, Poverty ranking, and State average household income.

PlaceVaccinatedStateLegislatureDependancy Rank% Funding RankPoverty RankAverage Income Rank
166.78VermontDemocrat15121523
264.59MassachusettsDemocrat363785
364.42MaineDemocrat11181936
464.13ConnecticutDemocrat2242126
562.44Rhode IslandDemocrat33171818
659.73MarylandDemocrat252332
759.34New JerseyDemocrat424153
858.68New HampshireRepublican263018
958.5WashingtonDemocrat4544910
1058.06New YorkDemocrat31163515
1158.05New MexicoDemocrat134948
1256.62OregonDemocrat27352420
1355.91District of ColumbiaNone1934391
1455.4VirginiaDemocrat24501011
1555.22ColoradoDemocrat3040612
1654.42MinnesotaMixed4745414
1754.08HawaiiDemocrat134874
1853.89CaliforniaDemocrat3233267
1953.51DelawareDemocrat51312217
2053.32PennsylvaniaRepublican40212922
2152.38WisconsinRepublican41511624
2250.24IowaRepublican43432126
2350.21NebraskaRepublican50241127
2449.92FloridaRepublican37293238
2549.38MichiganRepublican23253432
2649.36IllinoisDemocrat44362516
2747.66South DakotaRepublican38262833
2847.09OhioRepublican46383634
2946.44KentuckyRepublican654845
3046.09KansasRepublican49492331
3146.02AlaskaMixed24139
3246.01ArizonaRepublican773728
3345.84UtahRepublican4846213
3445.46NevadaDemocrat17323030
3544.86IndianaRepublican1462735
3644.83MontanaRepublican9153139
3744.83TexasRepublican29284125
3844.46North CarolinaRepublican28194041
3942.58MissouriRepublican21133340
4041.36South CarolinaRepublican10204243
4141.15OklahomaRepublican18274444
4240.54North DakotaRepublican4471719
4339.81TennesseeRepublican2084342
4439.4GeorgiaRepublican35223829
4539.25West VirginiaRepublican5104651
4638.02ArkansasRepublican39114749
4737.9LouisianaRepublican1615047
4837.88IdahoRepublican34392037
4937.26WyomingRepublican1291421
5035.47MississippiRepublican325150
5135.09AlabamaRepublican8144546

As you can see from the graphs below, there is no correlation between the vaccination rates and the economic data.

However, there is a clear correlation between Political leanings and vaccination rates
Attached Images
File Type: jpg VaccinatedRate01.jpg (19.7 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg VaccinatedRate02.jpg (13.1 KB, 5 views)
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Old 17th August 2021, 04:20 AM   #107
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That seems pretty damned conclusive to me.... the economic ranking points appear quite evenly distributed top to bottom of the vaccination % ranks

Looks like when you confront BS artists with facts, the BS artists evaporate...
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Old 17th August 2021, 04:34 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
That seems pretty damned conclusive to me.... the economic ranking points appear quite evenly distributed top to bottom of the vaccination % ranks

Looks like when you confront BS artists with facts, the BS artists evaporate...
Well, I started it actually expecting there to be some correlation and realised pretty quick as I was seeing the numbers that there probably wasn't. However, I may have made a mistake or used the wrong data and perhaps something like GDP per Capita or something still might show a clear correlation.

However I am done crunching numbers for the night, so if anyone wants to make that argument, they can show their data correlates better to the State Vaccination Rankings, and if they can, yay.
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Old 17th August 2021, 04:49 AM   #109
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I voted right wing media.

As a thought experiment, it would be interesting to wonder how Trump would be confronting the problem of anti-vax sentiments had he won a second term.

This seems very much like an issue where Trump was simply jumping on the broader right wing bandwagon, not leading it. I could easily see this being a problem where Trump urging people to take the vaccine could cause a nasty bit of strife within the broader right wing.

Given Trump's inability to publicly speak ill of any of his supporters, no matter how extreme, I would guess he would be unwilling to confront anti-vax nutters directly.
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Old 17th August 2021, 05:57 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Well, I started it actually expecting there to be some correlation and realised pretty quick as I was seeing the numbers that there probably wasn't. However, I may have made a mistake or used the wrong data and perhaps something like GDP per Capita or something still might show a clear correlation.

However I am done crunching numbers for the night, so if anyone wants to make that argument, they can show their data correlates better to the State Vaccination Rankings, and if they can, yay.
How about we use the data that you provided instead?

Look carefully at the income correlation. Its the column on the far right. Notice anything?

Notice how the single digit and teen rankings are all at the top (barring a couple normal outliers)? Notice how the thirties and forties are at the bottom?

Vaccination rates are a near perfect correlation to income, as predicted. Still don't understand? Take the income and paint the upper half of income ranks blue, and the lower half red, since you guys only seem to understand things when presented in two colors. What do you see compared to the vaccination rates?

That's right. Blue at the top and red at the bottom. But you can't see the correlation, huh? I don't believe you. I believe another poster from your neck of the woods doesn't understand it. I don't believe you. This is child level understanding of ranking.
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Old 17th August 2021, 06:14 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Of course it isn't entirely political, but by far the best predictor of if a person will follow any specific supported mitigation policy is political affiliation. One could argue that this is just a proxy for education, intelligence, and craven selfishness, but these political groupings are self-selecting after all, so that's basically the same thing.

Don't pretend we can't assign a lot of blame based on political identity non-compliance with the fake news media hyped, elitists scientists academics driven, dem hoax ChIIna virus policies.
I get what you are saying, and agreed earlier that I thought it virtually certain that more conservatives would be COVID antivaxx. What I'm saying is that the data presented doesn't reflect that, unless you assume everyone has strong political affiliations. IME, most people don't. They don't think about or care about politics at all, much like many don't care who won the Super Bowl or what the Kardashians are doing. At election time, they vote for who they like better, but they don't live and breathe Trump or Biden.

What I think correlates strongly to vaccination rates is intelligence, education, and income, far more than political affiliation. As you noted, you can pull some correlations there too. Just don't overgeneralize.

But heres the hitch: by calling a state red or blue, you guys are forgetting how tight some of those races were. You treat a red state as if everyone in it must be a Republican, when really many were nearly evenly split. That means what the dumbasses here call a red state is 55% republican and 45% Democrat, not even getting into non-voters. Yet you treat the state as 100% R. And it should be obvious: that's pretty stupid and skews data interpretation.
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Old 17th August 2021, 06:18 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I voted right wing media.

As a thought experiment, it would be interesting to wonder how Trump would be confronting the problem of anti-vax sentiments had he won a second term.

This seems very much like an issue where Trump was simply jumping on the broader right wing bandwagon, not leading it. I could easily see this being a problem where Trump urging people to take the vaccine could cause a nasty bit of strife within the broader right wing.

Given Trump's inability to publicly speak ill of any of his supporters, no matter how extreme, I would guess he would be unwilling to confront anti-vax nutters directly.
I think you can be pretty sure that his policy would have been unchanged..."it will just fade away"... because changing that policy would have forced him to do something that narcissists never do... admit he was wrong.
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Old 17th August 2021, 06:22 AM   #113
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For the posters here who only think in two colors: in the 2016 American Presidential Election, it is well known that Secretary Clinton won the popular vote by millions. Yet because of our Electoral College system, President Trump won the office.

By your color coding reasoning, more Americans wanted Trump as president. You guys do get that it really stupid, right? Yet that is precisely what you are doing here.
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Old 17th August 2021, 06:31 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
For the posters here who only think in two colors: in the 2016 American Presidential Election, it is well known that Secretary Clinton won the popular vote by millions. Yet because of our Electoral College system, President Trump won the office.

By your color coding reasoning, more Americans wanted Trump as president. You guys do get that it really stupid, right? Yet that is precisely what you are doing here.
I'm actually having this exact issue at work right now: how you break down a data set is what controls the summaries. If you insist on splitting your data into particular categories then averaging by those categories you will get entirely different numbers than if you had split them into different categories and gotten averages by those. How you look at the data affects the results.

Particularly when the thing being examined isn't actually controlled by the categorization you're doing. The virus doesn't care about the state borders, so breaking down virus data by states is a purely artificial human convenience for summarization--that is abstraction from reality. (Except for Hawaii, obviously.)

This all looks to me like people taking the same data and doing pivot tables on different fields to see what they can prove from it.
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Old 17th August 2021, 06:34 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm actually having this exact issue at work right now: how you break down a data set is what controls the summaries. If you insist on splitting your data into particular categories then averaging by those categories you will get entirely different numbers than if you had split them into different categories and gotten averages by those. How you look at the data affects the results.

Particularly when the thing being examined isn't actually controlled by the categorization you're doing. The virus doesn't care about the state borders, so breaking down virus data by states is a purely artificial human convenience for summarization--that is abstraction from reality. (Except for Hawaii, obviously.)

This all looks to me like people taking the same data and doing pivot tables on different fields to see what they can prove from it.
Gerrymandering springs to mind, too
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Old 17th August 2021, 07:04 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal
For the posters here who only think in two colors: in the 2016 American Presidential Election, it is well known that Secretary Clinton won the popular vote by millions. Yet because of our Electoral College system, President Trump won the office.

By your color coding reasoning, more Americans wanted Trump as president. You guys do get that it really stupid, right? Yet that is precisely what you are doing here.
Nice bit of spin, you should take up politics, but ultimately, everything you have said is irrelevant.

However you try to slice it, spin it or hand wave it away the fact is that the blue states are mostly at the end of the ordered list with the highest vaccination rates, and the red states are mostly at the end with the lowest, so before you go pontificating about the national popular vote from two elections ago, you need to explain the results you have already been presented with, and explain why the data do NOT show that vaccinations rates correlate to the political divide. Make sure you show your working!

There is also this to consider. If you bother watching and reading your own media, you would see that media with a Left/Blue bias have, right from the outset, been recognizing that the pandemic is serious, and real and when vaccines became available, they have been encouraging people to get vaccinated. Conversely, the media with the Right/Red bias have been brown-nosing Der Trumpenführer, calling it non-serious, and overblown (and some are still calling it fake) and have, for at least the last five months, been actively discouraging their readers/viewers from getting vaccinated.

How whether you like it or not, this stuff has IMPACT on readers & viewers, and one of the results of that impact is that they will have either vaccine hesitancy or vaccine acceptance depending on which media they consume for "information". This will result in lower vaccine uptake by readers/viewers of right-wing media and higher vaccine uptake by readers/viewers of left wing media. We observe that partly in the results the PW and I have posted!
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Old 17th August 2021, 07:20 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Nice bit of spin, you should take up politics, but ultimately, everything you have said is irrelevant.

However you try to slice it, spin it or hand wave it away the fact is that the blue states are mostly at the end of the ordered list with the highest vaccination rates, and the red states are mostly at the end with the lowest, so before you go pontificating about the national popular vote from two elections ago, you need to explain the results you have already been presented with, and explain why the data do NOT show that vaccinations rates correlate to the political divide. Make sure you show your working!
Already done, using PhantomWolfs income data. We see the same antivax correllation, based on income. Yet you insist on treating a red state as 100% red, rather than damn near an even split.

And before you bitch about data from Trump's election, your earlier posting about antivaxx profiles was from the ******* Obama Administration. Thoughts on vaccination have changed with COVID, ducky.

Quote:
There is also this to consider. If you bother watching and reading your own media, you would see that media with a Left/Blue bias have, right from the outset, been recognizing that the pandemic is serious, and real and when vaccines became available, they have been encouraging people to get vaccinated. Conversely, the media with the Right/Red bias have been brown-nosing Der Trumpenführer, calling it non-serious, and overblown (and some are still calling it fake) and have, for at least the last five months, been actively discouraging their readers/viewers from getting vaccinated.
Had you bothered to pay attention, my first words in this exchange were to agree that conservatives were more likely antivaxx. My issue is the wrongheaded data to demonstrate it. Many races were so tight they needed recounts. The votes were close to evenly split, not "all red or blue", as you oversimplify. Income demonstrates the correlation without your artificial split.

Quote:
How whether you like it or not, this stuff has IMPACT on readers & viewers, and one of the results of that impact is that they will have either vaccine hesitancy or vaccine acceptance depending on which media they consume for "information". This will result in lower vaccine uptake by readers/viewers of right-wing media and higher vaccine uptake by readers/viewers of left wing media. We observe that partly in the results the PW and I have posted!
Uh huh. And how did that correlate with your earlier data, that showed antivaxxers were 60% liberal, poor, and overwhelmingly think their vote doesn't matter?

Hint: it correlates perfectly with my interpretation, in both sets of data.
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Old 17th August 2021, 10:54 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Already done, using PhantomWolfs income data. We see the same antivax correllation, based on income. Yet you insist on treating a red state as 100% red, rather than damn near an even split.

And before you bitch about data from Trump's election, your earlier posting about antivaxx profiles was from the ******* Obama Administration. Thoughts on vaccination have changed with COVID, ducky.



Had you bothered to pay attention, my first words in this exchange were to agree that conservatives were more likely antivaxx. My issue is the wrongheaded data to demonstrate it. Many races were so tight they needed recounts. The votes were close to evenly split, not "all red or blue", as you oversimplify. Income demonstrates the correlation without your artificial split.



Uh huh. And how did that correlate with your earlier data, that showed antivaxxers were 60% liberal, poor, and overwhelmingly think their vote doesn't matter?


Hint: it correlates perfectly with my interpretation, in both sets of data.
That article was from March, 2015: pre-Covid, pre-Trump. There has never been a vaccine that was politicized the way these vaccines have been. There has never been an epidemic in the US whose severity was downplayed and even denied by the POTUS, a political party, or a partisan media that spread misinformation the way this one has. In 2015, those stats were true; in 2020-2021 they no longer apply, perhaps with the exception of the "think their vote doesn't matter" stat.
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Old 17th August 2021, 11:04 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
That article was from March, 2015: pre-Covid, pre-Trump. There has never been a vaccine that was politicized the way these vaccines have been. There has never been an epidemic in the US whose severity was downplayed and even denied by the POTUS, a political party, or a partisan media that spread misinformation the way this one has. In 2015, those stats were true; in 2020-2021 they no longer apply, perhaps with the exception of the "think their vote doesn't matter" stat.
Yes, I know, and already said the same. Smartcooky brought them up in the context of this thread, though. I have asked him about it and he remains silent. I kind of think he was unaware of the irrelevance.
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Old 17th August 2021, 02:30 PM   #120
dudalb
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Well that just shows you are never too old to learn something new.

I know I was vaccinated against tuberculosis in the early 1960s (its on my vaccine record card) and I had assumed that childhood memory was me getting that vaccine.
I got vaccinated against a whole lots of things my first day in the US army.....
They gave you a list of what you were being vaccinated against but you were too busy to give it any attention before and afterwards did not care....
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