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Old 27th August 2021, 04:44 PM   #121
Craig4
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Should they? no idea
But you have some idea. If you didn't, you wouldn't have asked.
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Old 27th August 2021, 04:46 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Because you and I disagree and I don't accept your interpretation. An atheist who mere rejects claims about deities is not making ila claim
You don't just reject a claim. You have an opinion. Why not defend it? I know you say you don't but everyone knows that's a lie. You're not Socrates. You're something much less.

Last edited by Craig4; 27th August 2021 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 27th August 2021, 05:09 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You don't just reject a claim. You have an opinion. Why not defend it? I know you say you don't but everyone knows that's a lie. You're not Socrates. You're something much less.
I reject all claims on the issue.
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Old 27th August 2021, 06:39 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You don't just reject a claim. You have an opinion. Why not defend it? I know you say you don't but everyone knows that's a lie. You're not Socrates. You're something much less.
Pyrrho perhaps. Not name calling but an attempt at understanding.
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Old 28th August 2021, 02:37 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I reject all claims on the issue.
And yet you have positions on issues.
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Old 28th August 2021, 04:24 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
And yet you have positions on issues.
And yet I don't
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Old 28th August 2021, 06:06 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
And yet I don't
What causes you to doubt that we owe something to the Afghans who worked with us?
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Old 28th August 2021, 06:42 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
What causes you to doubt that we owe something to the Afghans who worked with us?
The same thing that causes me to doubt the claim that "we" don't owe something to the Afghans, rejection of claims without evidence.


I reject both claims that something is owed and something is not owed. Therefore I doubt all.
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Old 28th August 2021, 08:36 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The same thing that causes me to doubt the claim that "we" don't owe something to the Afghans, rejection of claims without evidence.


I reject both claims that something is owed and something is not owed. Therefore I doubt all.
That's still a position. It's not well thought out and coherent but a position none the less. Your failure to apply intellectual rigor is immaterial.
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Old 28th August 2021, 08:39 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
That's still a position. It's not well thought out and coherent but a position none the less. Your failure to apply intellectual rigor is immaterial.
The reason for the position is obvious. No one making a claim on the issue has presented sufficient evidence to convince me.

But I'm not even looking for that here. I just want to here arguments for it, even unconvincing ones.
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Old 28th August 2021, 08:42 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The reason for the position is obvious. No one making a claim on the issue has presented sufficient evidence to convince me.

But I'm not even looking for that here. I just want to here arguments for it, even unconvincing ones.
You go first.
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Old 28th August 2021, 08:45 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
You go first.
Argue for what? I'm not sure one can argue for not having a position. That is like asking a person going to here a debate on a topic they don't hold a position why they oppose a side of the debate. It doesn't make sense.
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Old 28th August 2021, 10:44 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Argue for what? I'm not sure one can argue for not having a position. That is like asking a person going to here a debate on a topic they don't hold a position why they oppose a side of the debate. It doesn't make sense.
But you have a take on this. Not being sure is a position. Defend it.
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Old 28th August 2021, 12:08 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
But you have a take on this. Not being sure is a position. Defend it.
There isn't a defense for a lack of position. No position on a novel question is the neutral state....infants don't have to defend their lack of position on issues.
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Old 28th August 2021, 12:20 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
There isn't a defense for a lack of position. No position on a novel question is the neutral state....infants don't have to defend their lack of position on issues.
The logical conclusion, then, is that you are indistinguishable from an infant.
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Old 28th August 2021, 12:26 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The logical conclusion, then, is that you are indistinguishable from an infant.
Yes.
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Old 28th August 2021, 01:11 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The logical conclusion, then, is that you are indistinguishable from an infant.
Yes.
That being the case, is it your desire that you be treated as such?
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Old 28th August 2021, 01:21 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
That being the case, is it your desire that you be treated as such?
I have no opinion on that.
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Old 28th August 2021, 01:35 PM   #139
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Four pages of basically the same thing repeated over and over again.
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Old 28th August 2021, 01:47 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Four pages of basically the same thing repeated over and over again.
well, only one or two were really interested in arguing how one determines what one was owed. I had no follow ups for them.
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Old 28th August 2021, 02:25 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I have no opinion on that.
Defend your position. You silly little claim to a non-position is still a position. Why do you hold it? Explain yourself.
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Old 28th August 2021, 03:28 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Defend your position. You silly little claim to a non-position is still a position. Why do you hold it? Explain yourself.
there is nothing to defend. I lack evidence and data to enter a judgement. You are asking a judge to defend their verdict on the trial before the trial.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 28th August 2021 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 28th August 2021, 04:02 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
A rabbit hole thread if ever there was one. : shocked :
We should definitely keep bumping it.
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Old 28th August 2021, 04:07 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
there is nothing to defend. I lack evidence and data to enter a judgement. You are asking a judge to defend their verdict on the trial before the trial.
That's only your problem. Information about the evacuation of Afghans to Western countries is readily available. It's no one's job but your own to inform yourself about the issue. It's not a hard thing to do. Run along and do some reading and then come back.
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Old 28th August 2021, 04:30 PM   #145
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Bob, tell me, what is the value in never having skin in a game? Why are you so determined to make sure that you never matter?
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Old 28th August 2021, 06:26 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
We should definitely keep bumping it.
It doesn't matter if it gets bumped or not; it's still a rabbit hole because absolutely nothing has progressed from page 1.
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Old 28th August 2021, 06:55 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
It doesn't matter if it gets bumped or not; it's still a rabbit hole because absolutely nothing has progressed from page 1.
I think some made some good points.
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Old 28th August 2021, 07:32 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I think some made some good points.
So what?
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Old 28th August 2021, 11:20 PM   #149
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How do you feel about, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,” Bob?
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Old 29th August 2021, 04:21 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
How do you feel about, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you,” Bob?
Not something I would categorize as "owe" on first thought.
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Old 29th August 2021, 04:26 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Not something I would categorize as "owe" on first thought.
It is not. Just another aesthetic moral stance.

If I bought you a drink in a pub would you feel any inclination to buy me one in return?
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Old 29th August 2021, 05:08 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by Sideroxylon View Post
It is not. Just another aesthetic moral stance.

If I bought you a drink in a pub would you feel any inclination to buy me one in return?
No idea
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Old 29th August 2021, 05:09 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
We're also free to challenge you and call you out.
How is research in Afghanistan supposed to answer a question how each individual evaluates a moral question that is ultimately independent of Afghanistan?
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Old 29th August 2021, 05:51 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
No idea
I will assume someone has provided you with free goods or service or, colloquially, “done you a favour.” How did you feel on those occasions? Did you observe yourself to exhibit reciprocal behaviour?

You are in a desert and encounter a tortoise on its back, baking in the sun, legs flailing, but it cannot turn over without your help. Why are you not helping, Bob?

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Old 29th August 2021, 06:03 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
How is research in Afghanistan supposed to answer a question how each individual evaluates a moral question that is ultimately independent of Afghanistan?
Then why did you say you lacked data to make a judgement?
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Old 29th August 2021, 06:19 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Then why did you say you lacked data to make a judgement?
The data I lack is the details on how each individual evaluates the moral situation.
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Old 29th August 2021, 07:29 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The data I lack is the details on how each individual evaluates the moral situation.
Obviously, you don't that data to make your own determination. Just inform yourself and come to a decision. Why make such a production out of something any reasonably well informed person can do on their own?
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Old 29th August 2021, 07:38 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Obviously, you don't that data to make your own determination. Just inform yourself and come to a decision. Why make such a production out of something any reasonably well informed person can do on their own?
The purpose isn't for me to know how to value things from my own perspective. The purpose is to know how you and others value things for it's own sake.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 29th August 2021 at 07:41 AM.
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Old 29th August 2021, 09:11 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
The purpose isn't for me to know how to value things from my own perspective. The purpose is to know how you and others value things for it's own sake.
Thereby achieving what? What decision point is that information going to drive you to?
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Old 29th August 2021, 09:23 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Thereby achieving what? What decision point is that information going to drive you to?
Absolutely no decision point. This is solely about the entertainment I get from discussion.

Which makes it like almost every other conversation here.
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