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Old 11th September 2021, 05:02 AM   #41
Warp12
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Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
I think what Warp 12 actually intended was that the Repugnicans and (in his mind) "right thinking" centrist democrats will see this as "some sort of government overreach" and will unite to scuttle it.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
If so, then he's wrong. The majority of Americans are in favor of the vaccine mandates.
Originally Posted by Susheel View Post
Of course he is...

You've got it all wrong. We all know this won't bring unity. And I'm ok with that. I'm saying, let this partisan system burn itself to the ground...and then rise from it's ashes.

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Old 11th September 2021, 05:25 AM   #42
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If your opinion is the same tired trolling "I support vaccines... but I also support people right to make their own choicy choice choicing along" then you're either being a deliberate troll or so stupid and ignorant of what vaccines actually are and how they work that you are being rude by trying to speak with that level of dumbness.

Again I care not about the opinion of trolls that only care about their right to hurt other people.
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:29 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
If your opinion is the same tired trolling "I support vaccines... but I also support people right to make their own choicy choice choicing along" then you're either being a deliberate troll or so stupid and ignorant of what vaccines actually are and how they work that you are being rude by trying to speak with that level of dumbness.

Again I care not about the opinion of trolls that only care about their right to hurt other people.
So, how do you feel about the vaccine mandates?
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Old 11th September 2021, 06:13 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So, how do you feel about the vaccine mandates?

I think anyone who professes any ideology that supported the continuation of the draft during the 1960s and early 70s (they used to call them "conservatives" but who knows how the labels have shifted since then?) but now opposes vaccine mandates because of the claim that it involves the government forcing a (small but uncertain amount of) personal risk upon individuals is a lying self-serving hypocrite.
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Old 11th September 2021, 07:07 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Did you hear about them? What do you think?
I wish it hadn't come to this, but I think it's necessary.
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Old 11th September 2021, 07:16 AM   #46
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It's unfortunate that the airlines don't require a vax or a test.
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Old 11th September 2021, 07:29 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
It's unfortunate that the airlines don't require a vax or a test.
After this week, I expect that's coming.
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Old 11th September 2021, 07:55 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
After this week, I expect that's coming.
The airlines will probably drag their feet. Anything that costs them a penny is the end of their business, according to them.

Most businesses seem concerned about how to manage and monitor who's vaccinated.

Anecdote: Mayo Clinic, which I haven't visited in about 4 years, sent me an email saying "we see you've had two doses of the vaccine, and we recommend you get a third".

This implies to me that they can tie into the state's vaccine database without my permission. I actually appreciate the fact they did this.

Until whoever is monitoring vaccine status can do this, it will be difficult to manage ANY mandate.

ETA: Unless of course we add that chip to the vaccine everyone's been talking about.
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Old 11th September 2021, 08:00 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You've got it all wrong. We all know this won't bring unity. And I'm ok with that. I'm saying, let this partisan system burn itself to the ground...and then rise from it's ashes.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...c9ab0a059c.jpg
What is it you hope will ‘rise from the ashes’? A one party conservative state?
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Old 11th September 2021, 08:11 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I think anyone who doesn't get a vaccine is a complete idiot and society shouldn't have to put up with their idiocy.

And I don't want to hear one word from conservative trolls that only care about "mah rights" when the right in question lets them hurt other people.
Pro choice is relative, I guess. If the injection were to your genitals they'd have to accept it.
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Old 11th September 2021, 08:35 AM   #51
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What shall ARISE?

Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
What is it you hope will ‘rise from the ashes’? A one party conservative state?
Why, the fiery Phoenix of Unity! Behold, foolish questioner!

One nation, under a GOD who DAMNS!
(And keeps on damning, so ya better
Watch it, bud.)
One folk, White faces gleaming in the firefight, I mean firelight!
One bird to rule them all,
And in the factories bind them!
Workers of the world, pipe down!




Or something. I need nother cuppa cofeve.
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Old 11th September 2021, 08:41 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by kevbo View Post
Seconded.
Me too.

Hell's afire, it's simple enough. Nobody has the right to endanger public health.
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Old 11th September 2021, 09:07 AM   #53
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Old 11th September 2021, 09:45 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
I think anyone who professes any ideology that supported the continuation of the draft during the 1960s and early 70s (they used to call them "conservatives" but who knows how the labels have shifted since then?) but now opposes vaccine mandates because of the claim that it involves the government forcing a (small but uncertain amount of) personal risk upon individuals is a lying self-serving hypocrite.
Do what they did for smallpox, hold people down and inoculate them.
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Old 11th September 2021, 10:03 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Not true. Not one bit. I detest Trump with every fiber of my being but if he had been re-elected and then ordered a vaccine mandate, I would have said "The moron FINALLY did something right!" Why? Because I trust the science and believe vaccines are one of the greatest inventions of mankind regardless of the politics at the time.

On at least two occasions I defended Trump in some way and got blasted by some on here but I stood my ground. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
So I know you are dead wrong on this.
Exactly! I can't think of one decent reason not to take the vaccine. Why do I care who's President when it comes to public health? How this became a political issue is beyond me.
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Old 11th September 2021, 10:10 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Exactly! I can't think of one decent reason not to take the vaccine. Why do I care who's President when it comes to public health? How this became a political issue is beyond me.
if you are an accelerationist, anything that doesn't lead to mass deaths is a negative.
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Old 11th September 2021, 10:30 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Exactly! I can't think of one decent reason not to take the vaccine. Why do I care who's President when it comes to public health? How this became a political issue is beyond me.
Joe, meet Donnie Dolittle:


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Old 11th September 2021, 10:47 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
To a certain extent I don't blame Trump for the vaccine hesitancy. He hasn't said anything negative about the vaccine. He likes to pretend he invented it though.

I blame FOX, OAN, NEWSMAX, QANON, right wing radio and politicians like Desantis, Abbott, MTG, Boebert etc as well as a a lot of stupid morons on the Internet.
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Old 11th September 2021, 11:02 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
To a certain extent I don't blame Trump for the vaccine hesitancy. He hasn't said anything negative about the vaccine. He likes to pretend he invented it though.

I blame FOX, OAN, NEWSMAX, QANON, right wing radio and politicians like Desantis, Abbott, MTG, Boebert etc as well as a a lot of stupid morons on the Internet.
Although Trump supports vaccination, his early and deliberate downplaying of the seriousness of the virus and his mocking of those wearing masks set the stage for the political divide when it comes to those who do and do not get vaccinated. I do agree with you on your second paragraph; they took their cue from Trump and ran with it like Usain Bolt.
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Old 11th September 2021, 11:04 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
To a certain extent I don't blame Trump for the vaccine hesitancy. He hasn't said anything negative about the vaccine. He likes to pretend he invented it though.

I blame FOX, OAN, NEWSMAX, QANON, right wing radio and politicians like Desantis, Abbott, MTG, Boebert etc as well as a a lot of stupid morons on the Internet.
I blame Trump for initiating vaccine hesitancy. Seems that if he couldn't get full credit before the election he lost interest. The rightwing media fanned the flames. Although, he backed off he has never given more than a lukewarm support of getting vaccinated. At a recent rally he was booed for supporting vaccination. Probably an indication that vaccination hesitancy has taken on a life of its own with the deplorables. He know longer controls the message.

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Old 11th September 2021, 11:41 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
To a certain extent I don't blame Trump for the vaccine hesitancy. He hasn't said anything negative about the vaccine. He likes to pretend he invented it though.

I blame FOX, OAN, NEWSMAX, QANON, right wing radio and politicians like Desantis, Abbott, MTG, Boebert etc as well as a a lot of stupid morons on the Internet.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Although Trump supports vaccination, his early and deliberate downplaying of the seriousness of the virus and his mocking of those wearing masks set the stage for the political divide when it comes to those who do and do not get vaccinated. I do agree with you on your second paragraph; they took their cue from Trump and ran with it like Usain Bolt.
Originally Posted by kevbo View Post
I blame Trump for initiating vaccine hesitancy. Seems that if he couldn't get full credit before the election he lost interest. The rightwing media fanned the flames. Although, he backed off he has never given more than a lukewarm support of getting vaccinated. At a recent rally he was booed for supporting vaccination. Probably an indication that vaccination hesitancy has taken on a life of its own with the deplorables. He know longer controls the message.
I'd like to point out I prefaced my remark with "to a certain extent."

No question, Trump set the tone. He could have and should have taken a strong stance that people should get immunized. Instead he was the petulant child we all knew him to be.

But Trump's bully pulpit is in reality small. Tiny like his hands. He isn't a media outlet. He doesn't even have Twitter. In contrast every day on FOX etc they sowed the seeds of doubt. Although interestingly enough requiring there own workers to get vaccinated.

Trump certainly could be a stronger advocate for vaccines but the real damage is being done by the media outlets who do not care about the deaths of their own viewers.
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Old 11th September 2021, 11:59 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So, how do you feel about the vaccine mandates?
They have worked many times.

Why do you want to propagate disease?
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Old 11th September 2021, 12:03 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
After this week, I expect that's coming.
The states could make this happen. Hawaii requires flyers to be vaxed or tested. Other states should follow suit.
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Old 11th September 2021, 12:05 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Most businesses seem concerned about how to manage and monitor who's vaccinated.

The business world seems to agree with the detour Biden takes when making vaccinations virtually mandatory for a considerable portion of the population.
Anyway, employers will probably prefer having to check and register proof of vaccinations only once for every employee to having to check testing certificates twice a week. And employees will soon tire of having to stand in line to get tested twice a week.

Quote:
Even in deep red Texas, some employers embrace the president’s vaccine strategy.
(...)
Instead of directly mandating Americans take the vaccine, Biden effectively outsourced the job to the business community. But unlike previous White House interventions in the market — notably including President Barack Obama’s 2010 health insurance mandate — Biden’s action was welcomed by many bosses.
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) called Biden’s move “an assault on private businesses,” but businesses in his state’s largest city did not see it that way.
“The context in which this is occurring really matters,” said Harvey, a former energy industry executive. “We’ve been hit hard by this fourth wave [of the virus] … and employers simply must play a role in addressing this problem. We’ve tried it every other way.”
Biden’s vaccine push wins cautious business support as political opponents fume (Washington Post, Sep 11, 2021)
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Old 11th September 2021, 12:08 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'd like to point out I prefaced my remark with "to a certain extent."

No question, Trump set the tone. He could have and should have taken a strong stance that people should get immunized. Instead he was the petulant child we all knew him to be.

But Trump's bully pulpit is in reality small. Tiny like his hands. He isn't a media outlet. He doesn't even have Twitter. In contrast every day on FOX etc they sowed the seeds of doubt. Although interestingly enough requiring there own workers to get vaccinated.

Trump certainly could be a stronger advocate for vaccines but the real damage is being done by the media outlets who do not care about the deaths of their own viewers.
We are in agreement. Trump set the tone. The media, and his deplorables that lap it up, feed the anti-vaccination movement. For him and his media kind it is only the bottom line that matters, in my opinion. Deaths be damned, as long as the profits roll in. There are very few things I truly hate in the world, but Trump, the rightwing media, and the deplorables top my list.

Not that it matters, but I am a veteran (as patriotic as any) and I hate what the republican party, Trump, and rightwing media has done to our country. Beating COVID should have been a rallying moment in America. Sadly, it has not been for many.
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Old 11th September 2021, 12:18 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by kevbo View Post
We are in agreement. Trump set the tone. The media, and his deplorables that lap it up, feed the anti-vaccination movement. For him and his media kind it is only the bottom line that matters, in my opinion. Deaths be damned, as long as the profits roll in. There are very few things I truly hate in the world, but Trump, the rightwing media, and the deplorables top my list.

Not that it matters, but I am a veteran (as patriotic as any) and I hate what the republican party, Trump, and rightwing media has done to our country. Beating COVID should have been a rallying moment in America. Sadly, it has not been for many.
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Old 11th September 2021, 12:19 PM   #67
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I retired last year. Before I did, I spent many years picking my political conversations very carefully at work. This last summer, after a year of COVID and vaccinations freely available, I ran into some of my fellow workers. Not a shift in their attitudes. Evil liberals all of us, trying to destroy their America. Highly religious folks who would see hell freeze over before they submitted to the vaccination nazi. I worked at a university. (sigh) Granted, these folks did not represent the majority, but very possibly as much as 15 to 20 percent of the staff.

There is nothing, in my view, that will get these people on board short of a mandate from their employer, the government, or both. Some will still refuse, or will seek a cheat somehow. **** 'em. I'm done with them and their kind.
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Old 11th September 2021, 12:44 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by kevbo View Post
We are in agreement. Trump set the tone. The media, and his deplorables that lap it up, feed the anti-vaccination movement. For him and his media kind it is only the bottom line that matters, in my opinion. Deaths be damned, as long as the profits roll in. There are very few things I truly hate in the world, but Trump, the rightwing media, and the deplorables top my list.

Not that it matters, but I am a veteran (as patriotic as any) and I hate what the republican party, Trump, and rightwing media has done to our country. Beating COVID should have been a rallying moment in America. Sadly, it has not been for many.
I was a kid of the 60s. JFK and "ask not what the country can do for you but what you can do for your country." Partisanship always had its limits. Republicans and Democrats didn't hate each other. They just had different opinions on how to solve problems.

I was a member of the Young Democrats but I had friends...good friends who belonged to the Young Republicans. The King County Republicans have for a long time held a big annual barbecue . And I use to go with my GOP friends.

We were Americans, not enemies. Something happened in the 80s that changed that and it has only gotten worse.
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Old 11th September 2021, 01:18 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I was a kid of the 60s. JFK and "ask not what the country can do for you but what you can do for your country." Partisanship always had its limits. Republicans and Democrats didn't hate each other. They just had different opinions on how to solve problems.

I was a member of the Young Democrats but I had friends...good friends who belonged to the Young Republicans. The King County Republicans have for a long time held a big annual barbecue . And I use to go with my GOP friends.

We were Americans, not enemies. Something happened in the 80s that changed that and it has only gotten worse.
Reagan and his embracing of the religious right comes to mind.
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Old 11th September 2021, 01:29 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
What is it you hope will ‘rise from the ashes’? A one party conservative state?
If you mean something similar to that which arose from the ashes of, say, the Weimar Republic, you've probably guessed correctly.
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Old 11th September 2021, 01:43 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Reagan and his embracing of the religious right comes to mind.
This I agree with. I believe it to be the beginning of the long slide to where we are today.
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Old 11th September 2021, 02:26 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by kevbo View Post
....**** 'em. I'm done with them and their kind.
Christ, I wish we were.

Not that we can expect their numbers to grow, for the good reason that the worst of them are pruning themselves. But I'm not sure that the worst of them are the most dangerous. These once and future fascists have spat out the law, and I fear that what remains in their throats is to their taste.

They gained a bit of power when they submitted to Tromph and his ilk -- not the illusion of power, but the real thing. They may try for more, another bite at the carrot he dangled in front of them back in January.

Can some demagogue more daring and just a little smarter than Donnie the Degenerate make use of them?
Of course; who could resist among the rightie whitie amoralists of today?

I'm retired too -- and from a university! But I was for 23 years immersed in.engineering professors, an innocent lot who've never heard of 80% of the issues that concern us. I miss them sometimes.

Dunno how to wrap this up, except to say, yes, by god, don't inflict Know Nothings on yourself. **** 'em.
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Old 11th September 2021, 03:01 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by sackett View Post
Christ, I wish we were.

Not that we can expect their numbers to grow, for the good reason that the worst of them are pruning themselves. But I'm not sure that the worst of them are the most dangerous. These once and future fascists have spat out the law, and I fear that what remains in their throats is to their taste.

They gained a bit of power when they submitted to Tromph and his ilk -- not the illusion of power, but the real thing. They may try for more, another bite at the carrot he dangled in front of them back in January.

Can some demagogue more daring and just a little smarter than Donnie the Degenerate make use of them?
Of course; who could resist among the rightie whitie amoralists of today?

I'm retired too -- and from a university! But I was for 23 years immersed in.engineering professors, an innocent lot who've never heard of 80% of the issues that concern us. I miss them sometimes.

Dunno how to wrap this up, except to say, yes, by god, don't inflict Know Nothings on yourself. **** 'em.
I spent a number of years teaching before leaving the field. At the time I believed everyone could grow, be more than they currently were. Saving the world one classroom at a time so to speak.

Once I had left teaching I spent a number of years working around a number of mentally handicapped individuals hired by my employer, and I came to understand that a very small percentage of people will never grow or become more educated, they are physiologically prevented from doing so. But they were incredible people in their own right, willing to try.

The willfully ignorant I have no patience for anymore. Reagan gathered them in to the fold, Bush made it okay to be partisan - loudly and proudly, McConnell honed partisanship to a knife edge, and Trump made it okay to step out of the shadows. It bothers me not a wit if they prune themselves. Darwin Award and all that goes with it.

I do worry about a smarter version of Trump stepping forward. But at this point, COVID is shining a light on the likes of DeSantis, Abbott, and Cruz, et al, and helping keep them from gaining too much ground. But America in general does have a short memory.
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Old 11th September 2021, 04:00 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by kevbo View Post
I spent a number of years teaching before leaving the field. At the time I believed everyone could grow, be more than they currently were. Saving the world one classroom at a time so to speak.

Once I had left teaching I spent a number of years working around a number of mentally handicapped individuals hired by my employer, and I came to understand that a very small percentage of people will never grow or become more educated, they are physiologically prevented from doing so. But they were incredible people in their own right, willing to try.

The willfully ignorant I have no patience for anymore. Reagan gathered them in to the fold, Bush made it okay to be partisan - loudly and proudly, McConnell honed partisanship to a knife edge, and Trump made it okay to step out of the shadows. It bothers me not a wit if they prune themselves. Darwin Award and all that goes with it.

I do worry about a smarter version of Trump stepping forward. But at this point, COVID is shining a light on the likes of DeSantis, Abbott, and Cruz, et al, and helping keep them from gaining too much ground. But America in general does have a short memory.
Josh Hawley!

He is smart, well educated and a fascist who has yet to fully come out of the shadows and into the light of close scrutiny.

He has a number of the necessary attributes though...

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If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
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Old 11th September 2021, 04:17 PM   #75
Elagabalus
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You've got it all wrong. We all know this won't bring unity. And I'm ok with that. I'm saying, let this partisan system burn itself to the ground...and then rise from it's ashes.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...c9ab0a059c.jpg
https://www.thedailybeast.com/el-pas...sh-cops-allege
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Old 11th September 2021, 04:34 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You've got it all wrong. We all know this won't bring unity. And I'm ok with that. I'm saying, let this partisan system burn itself to the ground...and then rise from it's ashes.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...c9ab0a059c.jpg
Nonsense. There will always be partisanship. And there should be. One party rule sucks.

But oartisanship should never be based on some of things it is today. It shouldn't be based on racist nonsense or cult personalities.
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Old 11th September 2021, 04:34 PM   #77
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by kevbo View Post
I spent a number of years teaching before leaving the field. At the time I believed everyone could grow, be more than they currently were. Saving the world one classroom at a time so to speak.

Once I had left teaching I spent a number of years working around a number of mentally handicapped individuals hired by my employer, and I came to understand that a very small percentage of people will never grow or become more educated, they are physiologically prevented from doing so. But they were incredible people in their own right, willing to try.

The willfully ignorant I have no patience for anymore. Reagan gathered them in to the fold, Bush made it okay to be partisan - loudly and proudly, McConnell honed partisanship to a knife edge, and Trump made it okay to step out of the shadows. It bothers me not a wit if they prune themselves. Darwin Award and all that goes with it.

I do worry about a smarter version of Trump stepping forward. But at this point, COVID is shining a light on the likes of DeSantis, Abbott, and Cruz, et al, and helping keep them from gaining too much ground. But America in general does have a short memory.


A damn standing ovation for that one, Kevbo!
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Old 11th September 2021, 04:40 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Crazy and fueled by other crazies. They always seem to find each other. Mostly on the internet and at Trump rallies.
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Old 11th September 2021, 04:44 PM   #79
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Nonsense. There will always be partisanship. And there should be. One party rule sucks.

But oartisanship should never be based on some of things it is today. It shouldn't be based on racist nonsense or cult personalities.
Agreed. Each side has different ideas on how government should work which is why there are different sides. But they should all work for the good of the country as a whole which means compromise and a willingness to do so. But the extreme partisanship that we've seen arise, mostly the GOP under McConnell, is beyond nuts. It's just pure greed for power.
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:03 PM   #80
kevbo
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Josh Hawley!

He is smart, well educated and a fascist who has yet to fully come out of the shadows and into the light of close scrutiny.

He has a number of the necessary attributes though...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/zkbi5vuhay...ley1.jpg?raw=1
We must be ever vigilant. Fortunately, we do not all live in the same time zone, so we can divide up the watch.
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