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Old 11th September 2021, 05:08 PM   #81
kevbo
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post

A damn standing ovation for that one, Kevbo!
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:11 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So, how do you feel about the vaccine mandates?
I know you directed that at smartcooky but I'll throw my POV in here anyway.

It's a friggin pandemic! It's not normal times. Yes there should be vaccine mandates. This is a worldwide crisis.

It's like asking should we reinstate the draft if World War III breaks out and the US is involved, like it or not.
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:13 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I know you directed that at smartcooky but I'll throw my POV in here anyway.

It's a friggin pandemic! It's not normal times. Yes there should be vaccine mandates. This is a worldwide crisis.

It's like asking should we reinstate the draft if World War III breaks out and the US is involved, like it or not.
Oh, so now you say you support the draft! Warmonger!
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:14 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
It's unfortunate that the airlines don't require a vax or a test.
Depending on one's destination tests are required. My next door neighbor flew to Spain with some other stopovers a month ago and she had to jump through a gazillion COVID test hoops to get there.
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:20 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
The airlines will probably drag their feet. Anything that costs them a penny is the end of their business, according to them.

Most businesses seem concerned about how to manage and monitor who's vaccinated.

Anecdote: Mayo Clinic, which I haven't visited in about 4 years, sent me an email saying "we see you've had two doses of the vaccine, and we recommend you get a third".

This implies to me that they can tie into the state's vaccine database without my permission. I actually appreciate the fact they did this.

Until whoever is monitoring vaccine status can do this, it will be difficult to manage ANY mandate.

ETA: Unless of course we add that chip to the vaccine everyone's been talking about.
Why wouldn't they have access to the vaccine database? In this state it is mandatory we upload our vaccine data for anyone under 18 and if you upload the data you also have access to the data that is in there. The idea was to be more consistent when parents bring kids in and said parent can't remember what shots the kids have had.

I believe when COVID vaccinations started they introduced a registry just for that.



About that chip in the vaccine thing, one of the comedy shows last night (I think maybe it was Jimmy Kimmel) it was pointed out that most of those people afraid of a chip in the vaccine have cell phones with GPS in their pockets.
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:26 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Nonsense. There will always be partisanship. And there should be. One party rule sucks.

But oartisanship should never be based on some of things it is today. It shouldn't be based on racist nonsense or cult personalities.
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Agreed. Each side has different ideas on how government should work which is why there are different sides. But they should all work for the good of the country as a whole which means compromise and a willingness to do so. But the extreme partisanship that we've seen arise, mostly the GOP under McConnell, is beyond nuts. It's just pure greed for power.
My father was a lifelong republican, but we could still have a civilized discussion about political issues. We didn't agree very often, but that was what our individual vote counted for. Stating your final position through the ballot box.

Sometime during the late '90s he confided to me that he didn't recognize what was happening to his party. He was late to the recognition and the accepting of the changes, but once the century turned over he found himself voting more democrat than republican. Never changed his registration, he was ever hopeful for a return to sanity by the republican party he had spent his life in. He was a perfect example of "I didn't leave my party, the party left me." He truly couldn't wrap his head around the partisan hate. He and my mom used to cancel out each others' vote, but they voted. In the last few election cycles, my father voted more in line with my mother. They both passed away in 2019, and while I miss them greatly I am so glad they did not have to see Trump at his worst and deal with COVID.

We all have some level of desire and use for power in our lives. But the republican example has gone beyond the pale.
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:26 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Oh, so now you say you support the draft! Warmonger!
Well actually it was an analogy most people could relate to.
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:27 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
About that chip in the vaccine thing, one of the comedy shows last night (I think maybe it was Jimmy Kimmel) it was pointed out that most of those people afraid of a chip in the vaccine have cell phones with GPS in their pockets.
Yeah, but the decision to carry a cell phone is a choice made by the individual. And of course, you can shut the GPS off, supposedly. The joke makes little sense when you consider the mindset of of the people targeted.
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:28 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
It's unfortunate that the airlines don't require a vax or a test.
QANTAS requires all international passengers to be vaccinated.

Domestically:

Quote:
A senior U.S. lawmaker wants Congress to mandate requiring COVID-19 vaccines or recent negative tests for all domestic air and train travelers.

Representative Don Beyer, a Democrat, introduced legislation to require proof of vaccination or a negative COVID test within 72 hours of travel for domestic airline and Amtrak rail trips. It would also require all airport or Amtrak employees to be vaccinated or be subject to weekly COVID testing.
Prepare to hear screams of "BUT, MAH FREEEEEEEDOMS!" from the right.

Quote:
Canada said in August it would require all air, train and cruise-ship travelers to be vaccinated. Other countries are requiring vaccine passports for travel and other events.
Canadians tend to be far more sensible than a lot of the southern neighbors.
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:30 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
...

About that chip in the vaccine thing, one of the comedy shows last night (I think maybe it was Jimmy Kimmel) it was pointed out that most of those people afraid of a chip in the vaccine have cell phones with GPS in their pockets.
I know! Hilarious, amirite? What a bunch of maroons.
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:39 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
The states could make this happen. Hawaii requires flyers to be vaxed or tested. Other states should follow suit.
The airlines have very angry flight attendants and they can't replace them quickly. It takes a while to grow a fully trained flight attendant. They will have to balance happy customers and happy flight attendants. Customers, they have, flight crews they don't in this labor market.
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:44 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yeah, but the decision to carry a cell phone is a choice made by the individual. And of course, you can shut the GPS off, supposedly. The joke makes little sense when you consider the mindset of of the people targeted.
The joke makes even more sense when you consider the mindset of the people targeted.

How many were busted for their participation in the insurrection because they can't use their cell phone smartly or responsibly? They supplied their own incriminating evidence to the FBI.

You have to hold a toddler's hand to cross the street, perhaps they should have someone hold their hand while they walk down to the vaccination center. Some people just don't seem to be able to make good choices. Fine for them, it's their right, until it impacts the rights and lives of those around them.
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:48 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yeah, but the decision to carry a cell phone is a choice made by the individual. And of course, you can shut the GPS off, supposedly. The joke makes little sense when you consider the mindset of of the people targeted.
Originally Posted by kevbo View Post
The joke makes even more sense when you consider the mindset of the people targeted.

How many were busted for their participation in the insurrection because they can't use their cell phone smartly or responsibly? They supplied their own incriminating evidence to the FBI.
Huh? The mindset is about personal choice, vs government control.
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:55 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yeah, but the decision to carry a cell phone is a choice made by the individual. And of course, you can shut the GPS off, supposedly. The joke makes little sense when you consider the mindset of of the people targeted.
I don't care.

Privacy has been a facade for decades. I look up something online and fairly quickly I'm getting ads for it as well as related items. I get retirement related ads targeted towards older individuals. How do they know my age? Somehow they do.

Add a phone, GPS texting etc into the mix and corporations know one hell of a lot about you. But the government knowing your COVID vaccination is somehow wrong? As if their intentions aren't good? It's not like they're asking whether you missed your last period.

One requires a passport or Driver's license to get on a plane today. After all, we don't want terrorists flying endangering passengers and crew. What's wrong with airlines being able to know you're not infected with a deadly disease before you climb into a metal tube a couple of hundred other people?
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Old 11th September 2021, 05:58 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by kevbo View Post
The joke makes even more sense when you consider the mindset of the people targeted.

How many were busted for their participation in the insurrection because they can't use their cell phone smartly or responsibly? They supplied their own incriminating evidence to the FBI.

You have to hold a toddler's hand to cross the street, perhaps they should have someone hold their hand while they walk down to the vaccination center. Some people just don't seem to be able to make good choices. Fine for them, it's their right, until it impacts the rights and lives of those around them.
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Huh? The mindset is about personal choice, vs government control.
Hmmm. You left out the part where I thought I made it clear that it is a choice between an individual's right to choose, and the public right to societal well-being. I said nothing about government control. But I will concede that the public well-being must be enforced by the government if the individual will not accede to the public good. That still is not a power grab by the government. It is the government doing it's job through the judiciary. There are laws.
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Old 11th September 2021, 06:02 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I don't care.

Privacy has been a facade for decades. I look up something online and fairly quickly I'm getting ads for it as well as related items. I get retirement related ads targeted towards older individuals. How do they know my age? Somehow they do.

Add a phone, GPS texting etc into the mix and corporations know one hell of a lot about you. But the government knowing your COVID vaccination is somehow wrong? As if their intentions aren't good? It's not like they're asking whether you missed your last period.

One requires a passport or Driver's license to get on a plane today. After all, we don't want terrorists flying endangering passengers and crew. What's wrong with airlines being able to know you're not infected with a deadly disease before you climb into a metal tube a couple of hundred other people?
Exactly. I remember being able to go to an airport and hang out, watch the planes, see people off without a hassle. In some ways, the terrorists won. But I wouldn't go back to non-screening until some day when the terrorists are gone. Not sure when that will ever be.
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Old 11th September 2021, 06:05 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Yeah, but the decision to carry a cell phone is a choice made by the individual. And of course, you can shut the GPS off, supposedly. The joke makes little sense when you consider the mindset of of the people targeted.
Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Huh? The mindset is about personal choice, vs government control.
Originally Posted by kevbo View Post
Hmmm. <other random stuff>
The topic was the relevancy of the joke...not your personal beliefs on government and society.
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Last edited by Warp12; 11th September 2021 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 11th September 2021, 06:28 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by kevbo View Post
Exactly. I remember being able to go to an airport and hang out, watch the planes, see people off without a hassle. In some ways, the terrorists won. But I wouldn't go back to non-screening until some day when the terrorists are gone. Not sure when that will ever be.
Probably never. But it sure would be nice to fly like we use to.

I use to fly a lot for work during the 90s. There was little to no security. No need really to get there early. I knew the flight schedules by heart. I could miss my flight and it was no big deal. I could catch a later flight and the airline never charged me for it either. Not once.
Today they make you buy another ticket.

I can't imagine having that job today.
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Old 11th September 2021, 07:03 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
So, how do you feel about the vaccine mandates?
Same way my parents felt about vaccine programmes for smallpox in the 1940s and 1950s, and for poliomyelitis in the 1960s. 100% for it... get it done!
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If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
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Old 11th September 2021, 07:17 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
The airlines have very angry flight attendants and they can't replace them quickly. It takes a while to grow a fully trained flight attendant. They will have to balance happy customers and happy flight attendants. Customers, they have, flight crews they don't in this labor market.
United has an employee mandate. A couple others require test or vax. I bet no mandate also costs them employees.
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Last edited by varwoche; 11th September 2021 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 11th September 2021, 07:36 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Huh? The mindset is about personal choice, vs government control.
Only for what they want to choose. How many of the agitators for personal choice on vaccines do you think would advocate for personal choice where sex is concerned?
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Old 11th September 2021, 08:29 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
Huh? The mindset is about personal choice, vs government control.
Speaking of personal choice vs government control, how is that Texas Abortion Law coming along?

How about

• compulsory education?
• the requirement to have a licence before being permitted to drive a car?
• the requirement to have a passport before travelling overseas?
• the mandatory requirement for the notification of the following diseases - Cholera, Cryptosporidiosis, Cyclosporiasis, Giardiasis, Hepatitis A, Legionellosis, Malaria, Salmonellosis, Shigellosis, Typhoid fever, Vibriosis and Yellow Fever
• the mandatory wearing of seat belts when driving or riding in a vehicle?
• mandatory examinations for all students wishing to graduate?
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► Evolution is "survival of the fittest" - the fittest being those who are stronger, healthier and better adapted. Covid-19 has changed that. The fittest are now the well informed, logical, science believers who listen to the experts and get vaccinated.
If you don't like my posts, opinions, or directness then put me on your ignore list. This will benefit both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste time talking to you... simples!
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Old 11th September 2021, 09:18 PM   #103
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Fishing license and stamps
Hunting license and stamps
Driver's license and motorcycle endorsements
Various trade licenses
Construction permits
Environmental impact statements
Business licenses
Liquor licenses
Pilot licenses
Etcetera.

But vaccine mandate to help stifle a pandemic? **** no.

What's with these snowflakes? Do they need a safe space? A binkey?
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Old 11th September 2021, 10:43 PM   #104
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BUT MAH FREEEEEEDOMS!!!
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Old 11th September 2021, 11:48 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
BUT MAH FREEEEEEDOMS!!!
BUT... AH WANT TO OWN THE LIBS!!!


LOL LOOK AT HOW DUMB WE ARE! IT’S ALL BIDEN’S FAULT.
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Old 12th September 2021, 03:27 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Why wouldn't they have access to the vaccine database? In this state it is mandatory we upload our vaccine data for anyone under 18 and if you upload the data you also have access to the data that is in there. The idea was to be more consistent when parents bring kids in and said parent can't remember what shots the kids have had.

I believe when COVID vaccinations started they introduced a registry just for that.



About that chip in the vaccine thing, one of the comedy shows last night (I think maybe it was Jimmy Kimmel) it was pointed out that most of those people afraid of a chip in the vaccine have cell phones with GPS in their pockets.
Having access wasn't what surprised me. What surprised me was that Mayo actually went back through their records from years ago to look through the database.

About GPS in your pocket - I know, right? Sometimes I think most people's reaction to anything is just a knee jerk.
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Old 12th September 2021, 03:53 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by bruto View Post
Only for what they want to choose. How many of the agitators for personal choice on vaccines do you think would advocate for personal choice where sex is concerned?
Or abortion. The "libertarians" and "conservatives" are fine with government intervention that suits their beliefs.
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Old 12th September 2021, 04:41 AM   #108
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Get the ******* jab, yah friggin snowflakes*!

*Cue: Ooh, but my special body...

Get the ******* jab!
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Old 12th September 2021, 05:10 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
About GPS in your pocket - I know, right? Sometimes I think most people's reaction to anything is just a knee jerk.
First, I think we can all agree there are no tracking chips in the vaccine.

But, the idea that it would be ok if there were, because, "people carry cell phones anyway", is ludicrous.

Keep in mind, these folks really believe in these " tracking chips". I know they are stupid to think this, but it must be scary to them. It isn't surprising that some are willing to lose their jobs rather than get the vaccine.
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Old 12th September 2021, 05:46 AM   #110
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The underlying issue, rather than the vaccine, seems to be that Trump America has a visceral reaction to being told to do anything for their own good, and will go to extreme lengths not to, using even more extreme confabulation as to why not.
I don't know what has to happen to make this pouting stop.
Red America has already a far outsized level of political influence, as a comparison of the popular vote with the actual representation shows. It's dominating the Judiciary on all levels. And its churches get a free pass to do more or less whatever.

And still they claim to be powerless victims of the coastal Elites.
How much more power will they need before they stop blaming everyone but themselves?
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Old 12th September 2021, 06:35 AM   #111
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Because "Freedom" has been perverted into a toxic, hateful "You can't tell me what to do" contrarianism. "I'm right and I know I'm right because other people are disagreeing with me so I must be an iconoclast going against the grain."

People's stupid, anti-intellectual obsession with "nobody gets to tell me what to what" has crossed the line that we now have a sizeable demographic that is, ironically, so incapable of independent thought that all they can know what to do is to reflexively do what anyone else suggests they shouldn't do.

Not only does this make them the saddest and most easily controlled group in recent history, as in they are all total sheep who you can make do anything simply by telling them to do the opposite, but it also makes the easily foils for people who need stupid, unintelligent followers.
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Old 12th September 2021, 07:14 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Because "Freedom" has been perverted into a toxic, hateful "You can't tell me what to do" contrarianism. "I'm right and I know I'm right because other people are disagreeing with me so I must be an iconoclast going against the grain."

People's stupid, anti-intellectual obsession with "nobody gets to tell me what to what" has crossed the line that we now have a sizeable demographic that is, ironically, so incapable of independent thought that all they can know what to do is to reflexively do what anyone else suggests they shouldn't do.

Not only does this make them the saddest and most easily controlled group in recent history, as in they are all total sheep who you can make do anything simply by telling them to do the opposite, but it also makes the easily foils for people who need stupid, unintelligent followers.
I'm constantly reminded of the Kids In The Hall sketch centered around the advice "Never put salt in your eyes".
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Old 12th September 2021, 07:20 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
First, I think we can all agree there are no tracking chips in the vaccine.

It is obvious that we can't all agree, but good that you do.

Quote:
But, the idea that it would be ok if there were, because, "people carry cell phones anyway", is ludicrous.

Nobody says so! You have misunderstood the argument. It goes like this: 'You carry cell phones with microchips that keep track of you, and yet you worry about imaginary microchips in the vaccines!'

Quote:
Keep in mind, these folks really believe in these " tracking chips". I know they are stupid to think this, but it must be scary to them. It isn't surprising that some are willing to lose their jobs rather than get the vaccine.

Some of them do seem to believe in these "tracking chips" unlike the guys who came up with and spread the lie. And yes, it is surprising that some of them are willing to lose their jobs rather than get the vaccine, but I doubt that very many of them actually are. People are usually good at giving up stupid fantasies when those stupid fantasies turn out to have really bad real-life consequences for themselves.
It is different when the death penalty for stupid fantasies are still only a lottery, the way it has been so far. When the consequence is swift and immediate, it is a different story.

I wouldn't be surprised if many of the covidiots end up turning against the people who spread the lies while being vaccinated themselves. Like all the guys at Fox. They will need an excuse for having fallen prey to the idiocy, and that excuse could end up picking the purveyors of the lies as the scapegoats.

There would be some justice in that.
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"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 12th September 2021, 07:37 AM   #114
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Idiots never turn against the people who lie to them.

The real world isn't fiction, it has no sense of dramatic irony.

The Covidiots will not face some cosmic comeuppance because it fits in with some thematic character arc.

They will only face the consequence WE oppose on them.
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Old 12th September 2021, 07:40 AM   #115
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Old 12th September 2021, 08:31 AM   #116
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A trip to my local DMV is one hell of a lot more time consuming and painful than my two shots.
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Old 12th September 2021, 08:34 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Idiots never turn against the people who lie to them...
This does seem to be the way it works. School officials who suggest reinstating mask mandates get shouted down at board meetings and then receive death threats. Imagine if they responded by:
Quote:
Urging all Americans to get the coronavirus vaccine, touting its efficacy as both "a safe vaccine" and "something that works."
They'd probably require 24-hour-a-day police protection, but the above is actually a quote from donald trump. His supporters aren't turning against him. Why?

There's a whole pathology at work here. It's political. Mitch McConnell put it very well in a 2009 Republican strategy session, when Obama was taking office. "If he's for it we're against it. I want a record of 100% opposition to Obama."
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Old 12th September 2021, 11:45 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by slyjoe View Post
Having access wasn't what surprised me. What surprised me was that Mayo actually went back through their records from years ago to look through the database.

About GPS in your pocket - I know, right? Sometimes I think most people's reaction to anything is just a knee jerk.
It's a searchable database.

I was mistaken. I thought it was a national program but it might only be a WA State program.

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Old 12th September 2021, 12:46 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
First, I think we can all agree there are no tracking chips in the vaccine.

But, the idea that it would be ok if there were, because, "people carry cell phones anyway", is ludicrous.
I don't think anyone is saying that.

Quote:
Keep in mind, these folks really believe in these " tracking chips". I know they are stupid to think this, but it must be scary to them. It isn't surprising that some are willing to lose their jobs rather than get the vaccine.
Some are willing to lose their jobs because they are either too stupid or just unwilling to ask their/a doctor or to look somewhere for information other than an echo chamber. Frankly, if they are that stupid then anyplace that employs them is well rid of them.
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Old 12th September 2021, 12:53 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Some are willing to lose their jobs because they are either too stupid or just unwilling to ask their/a doctor or to look somewhere for information other than an echo chamber. Frankly, if they are that stupid then anyplace that employs them is well rid of them.
Would you say the same thing about anyone who refuses to get a vaccine? Or just the people who believe in the microchip theory?
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