TAM 9 Speaker Lawrence Krauss in contrversy of his own making - Page 2

saganite · 8th April 2011, 12:35 PM

One reason I find this so disturbing is because it seems so obvious to the rest of us that Krauss is relying on nothing more than gut feelings right now, yet he's 100% sure that this is enough to support his personal opinion. In other words, a well-known and well-respected skeptic is acting like a complete woomeister, it's been pointed out to him repeatedly, yet he's refusing to acknowledge it. Does this mean that any one of us could be subject to the same embarrassing lapse in judgement?

Fitter · 8th April 2011, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by saganite

<snip> Does this mean that any one of us could be subject to the same embarrassing lapse in judgement?

I know I could. I can only hope that I recognise it when it is pointed out to me.

SkepticScott · 8th April 2011, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by TsarBomba

Maybe the National Center For Missing And Exploited Children would be the most appropriate group. It is more focused on children than Equality Now.

I think you're right. I know EN does work against such things as child marriages, but the people might miss the message. The NCFMAEC would be a clear statement.

Originally Posted by Fitter

I know I could. I can only hope that I recognise it when it is pointed out to me.

Me too, and I hope I graciously thank the person who points it out to me.

Eos of the Eons · 8th April 2011, 01:20 PM

On the cruise, we agreed to yell "moo" if one of us started to display a lapse, like one in judgement or revealing our token woo woo. It's easy to recognize it in others, but very difficult to recognize it in our own selves.

Now, "moo" may not be appropriapte at TAM, maybe yelling "Krauss" would be now?

Disraeli Ears · 8th April 2011, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by SkepticScott

I think you're right. I know EN does work against such things as child marriages, but the people might miss the message. The NCFMAEC would be a clear statement.

I agree on NCFMAEC...and I would be willing to help with the organization of such a fundraiser.

And count me as another who would appreciate being called out by my skeptical friends if I were to pull a "Krauss."

I still can't believe he had the nerve to play the "you skeptics should really be more skeptical" card!

Dicon · 8th April 2011, 02:02 PM

I am hereby volunteering to be the Sunday afternoon MDC test subject, by publically predicting in this public forum that Krauss will withdraw from TAM between now and July. It shall still be considered a hit if the JREF is the one who withdraws him.

Finally, it shall still be considered a hit if he makes his scheduled appearance, as I will assert that at some point he thought about withdrawing.

TsarBomba · 8th April 2011, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Dicon

I am hereby volunteering to be the Sunday afternoon MDC test subject, by publically predicting in this public forum that Krauss will withdraw from TAM between now and July. It shall still be considered a hit if the JREF is the one who withdraws him.

Finally, it shall still be considered a hit if he makes his scheduled appearance, as I will assert that at some point he thought about withdrawing.

I still think you will loose. Dr. Krauss is too big a fish for the JREF to flush him, and with an ego as large as Dr. Krauss has, I doubt he will even think about withdrawing, much less doing it.

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos · 8th April 2011, 02:25 PM

Could someone summarize what Krauss has said about this mess, with sources?

~~ Paul

Dunstan · 8th April 2011, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Could someone summarize what Krauss has said about this mess, with sources?

~~ Paul

The original post does that just fine, I think.

kittynh · 8th April 2011, 02:55 PM

the Skepchick article is pretty good. At least the sources, we don't seem to know if Krauss has read or knew about the secret diary.

TsarBomba · 8th April 2011, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by kittynh

the Skepchick article is pretty good. At least the sources, we don't seem to know if Krauss has read or knew about the secret diary.

And, who knows if Dr. Krauss knew that Mr. Epstein apparently brought young ladies to his spacious estate on a daily basis to give him "massages" when few, if any, of these young ladies were actual massage therapists.

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos · 8th April 2011, 04:10 PM

Okay, thanks. I thought there might be additional information elsewhere.

~~ Paul

saganite · 8th April 2011, 04:13 PM

The comments on the article are as interesting as the article itself, if not more. Each time Krauss responds, he digs his hole deeper.

Verde · 8th April 2011, 04:26 PM

I'll admit to not having heard of Krauss before reading this thread.

As far as I can tell from reading the posts and following a couple of the links he has not been charged with anything other than having a poor choice of friends.

If he genuinely believed that his buddy was cavorting with ladies of age, then I would tag him as naive, but would let it go at that.

If he knew that Epstein was raping children, and continued to support him, then a walkout at TAM would be far too mild.

Which was it? I don't know, I can't read his mind.

V.

Dicon · 8th April 2011, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by TsarBomba

I still think you will loose. Dr. Krauss is too big a fish for the JREF to flush him, and with an ego as large as Dr. Krauss has, I doubt he will even think about withdrawing, much less doing it.

Well then, I think it's only reasonable that I consider that scenario to be a hit as well.

TsarBomba · 8th April 2011, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by Dicon

Well then, I think it's only reasonable that I consider that scenario to be a hit as well.

That would seem to be the reasonable approach.

kittynh · 8th April 2011, 05:52 PM

Just a side note, with "Krauss" becoming a new word for uncritical thinking... in the UFO community a "McGaha" is a "THIS is what THAT was" by a skeptic "expert" that is really just a guess and turns out to be so totally wrong it hurts the skeptic movement. Too often skeptic "experts" like to proclaim "oh I know what THAT is!" way before they have enough information and evidence.

Simon39759 · 9th April 2011, 12:47 AM

The obvious solution would be to combine the two and organize a money-raising activity, maybe an auction, during the talk.

For example, maybe people could donate trinkets (or books and such), then people could get on the scene and the first person to guess their age would win the trinkets.
Each guess would then require a small donation...

kittynh · 9th April 2011, 01:04 PM

http://indieskeptics.com/2011/04/09/rights-and-wrongs/

remember since this is a billionare we are talking about...just like Scientologists...this is SO NOT The Kitty that lives in New Hampshire! This Kitty lives in Peoria.

MattusMaximus · 9th April 2011, 10:11 PM

Originally Posted by saganite

One reason I find this so disturbing is because it seems so obvious to the rest of us that Krauss is relying on nothing more than gut feelings right now, yet he's 100% sure that this is enough to support his personal opinion. In other words, a well-known and well-respected skeptic is acting like a complete woomeister, it's been pointed out to him repeatedly, yet he's refusing to acknowledge it. Does this mean that any one of us could be subject to the same embarrassing lapse in judgement?

In a word: yes.

We are all subject to cognitive dissonance, in one form or another. Thankfully, though, I'm guessing that most of us don't take it to the extreme or do so as publicly as Dr. Krauss has done in this case.

So we're on for ice cream. Nice. Others are welcome to join us.

saganite · 10th April 2011, 11:51 AM

Interesting link, kittynh.

Mattus -- it's so on. Will you indulge in a Controversy Crunch Cone with me?

Jono · 10th April 2011, 12:16 PM

Lawrence (yes you, Krauss), sometimes the people whose character you think you know to be upstanding turn out to be scumbags. Unfortunately, foolish denial about it only moves your own character one more step toward the 'scumbagian' corner. The man's got a bad case of repulsive horny-toad syndrome.

This isn't some figment of the media's imagination, it is not a witch hunt. It's the established record of a man's habitual and unlawful tendencies. Shame on you.

bumlet5 · 10th April 2011, 01:25 PM

I will say that we need someone back in the room to tweet about it, and to tell someone directly (via text, perhaps?) when he's done so we can go back to see the rest of the speakers.

kittynh · 10th April 2011, 01:29 PM

Ice cream rocks.

Wowbagger · 10th April 2011, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by bumlet5

I will say that we need someone back in the room to tweet about it, and to tell someone directly (via text, perhaps?) when he's done so we can go back to see the rest of the speakers.

I might be willing to volunteer to do that, since I was willing to sit in the room, and put up with his putrid nonsense, anyway.

But, I might have to think about it, more, depending on the nature of the alternative activity.

Originally Posted by kittynh

Ice cream rocks.

I prefer Ice cream cones. Rocks are often tough to chew on.

MattusMaximus · 10th April 2011, 05:31 PM

Originally Posted by saganite

Interesting link, kittynh.

Mattus -- it's so on. Will you indulge in a Controversy Crunch Cone with me?

How can I possibly refuse such a... tasty & desirable offer such as that?

MattusMaximus · 10th April 2011, 06:10 PM

My two cents on the matter, if anyone cares:
http://skepticalteacher.wordpress.co...krauss-fiasco/

Cheers - MM

plumjam · 10th April 2011, 06:33 PM

About an hour after Krauss's TAM appearance there'll be some Asian-looking dwarf dancing about on Epstein Island, shouting "Boss, the plane! The plane, boss!"

skeptic555 · 10th April 2011, 07:59 PM

@Verde demonstrates the point I was going to make - which is that it would be a mistake to assume a plurality in that room will know whats going on if a protest is planned.

*I* now do, having seen this thread, but of the 1300 or so at TAM, how many will have seen this story discussed here (or even elsewhere with a TAM-centric spin)?

Its easy to assume things we know about are in the common knowledge category for everyone, especially at a place like TAM. But it just ain't so.

Without context, even a hundred people walking out at the start of a speaker is pretty much a bathroom break.

I'm not weighing in on if its a good or a bad idea - everything I know about this issue I read here, which is dangerous enough in and of itself. I'm just saying if something *is* planned - make sure people know the WHY. Perhaps that big ol whiteboard could be put to use?

TsarBomba · 11th April 2011, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by skeptic555

@Verde demonstrates the point I was going to make - which is that it would be a mistake to assume a plurality in that room will know whats going on if a protest is planned.

*I* now do, having seen this thread, but of the 1300 or so at TAM, how many will have seen this story discussed here (or even elsewhere with a TAM-centric spin)?

Its easy to assume things we know about are in the common knowledge category for everyone, especially at a place like TAM. But it just ain't so.

Without context, even a hundred people walking out at the start of a speaker is pretty much a bathroom break.

I'm not weighing in on if its a good or a bad idea - everything I know about this issue I read here, which is dangerous enough in and of itself. I'm just saying if something *is* planned - make sure people know the WHY. Perhaps that big ol whiteboard could be put to use?

Agreed, this little thread would not be enough to inform more than a minuscule fraction. I would think that anything organized and well publicized would come through the Skepchicks, and they could probably get PZ Myers involved. If Rececca were leading something, she could mention it on the SGU, which would inform a substantial percentage of the people attending. Since Rebecca essentially broke this story in the skeptical blogosphere, she may already be planning something.

xinit · 11th April 2011, 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Wowbagger

But, I might have to think about it, more, depending on the nature of the alternative activity.

I don't think that any walkout should be misinterpreted as people just not being interested. If you intend to show that you're not supporting the speaker, I think you need to make it more obvious. It's not unusual for the audience size to go up and down significantly depending on how boring the next speaker is going to be.

Stay in the room, and make everyone else in the room aware of what's going on. Stand up and turn away from the stage and stand there. Be a bit obstructive.

SkepticScott · 11th April 2011, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by xinit

Stay in the room, and make everyone else in the room aware of what's going on. Stand up and turn away from the stage and stand there. Be a bit obstructive.

Please don't do this. If you obstruct someone's view -- someone who paid to see this person -- you're not harming the speaker, you're harming your fellow audience member.

xinit · 11th April 2011, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by SkepticScott

Please don't do this. If you obstruct someone's view -- someone who paid to see this person -- you're not harming the speaker, you're harming your fellow audience member.

Fair enough... though there's a pretty decent amount of space right up front, and the stage is pretty high.

If people were to go up to the front, where the speaker could see, and turn around... wouldn't be obstructive, but would be pretty visible.

bumlet5 · 11th April 2011, 01:23 PM

Step to the sides of the room, perhaps? Not blocking the attendees, but well seen by the speaker.

Kochanski · 11th April 2011, 01:40 PM

We could always use that time to take a forum pic

All go down and stand by the horse's ass and take a group pic.

monoman · 11th April 2011, 02:03 PM

Has he got any kids? We could send them notes that say their daddy hangs round with a sex criminal that looks like Herman Munster (or that guy from the Adam's family - can't remember which).

SkepticScott · 11th April 2011, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Kochanski

All go down and stand by the horse's ass and take a group pic.

No photoshopping!

Disraeli Ears · 11th April 2011, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Kochanski

All go down and stand by the horse's ass and take a group pic.

But I thought the point was to get AWAY from Krauss? *rimshot*

I'm sorry...that was a bad joke, but I couldn't help myself.

Kochanski · 11th April 2011, 03:34 PM

I should have said the other horse's ass, however, I knew the jokes would follow soon

Cleon · 11th April 2011, 03:38 PM

Since a massive number of people visibly walking out (or whatever) might be confusing to people who don't know what's going on, maybe someone could make up some flyers or postcards that explains why people are pissed?

8th April 2011, 12:35 PM	#41
saganite Black-and-white Cat-foot Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2,299	One reason I find this so disturbing is because it seems so obvious to the rest of us that Krauss is relying on nothing more than gut feelings right now, yet he's 100% sure that this is enough to support his personal opinion. In other words, a well-known and well-respected skeptic is acting like a complete woomeister, it's been pointed out to him repeatedly, yet he's refusing to acknowledge it. Does this mean that any one of us could be subject to the same embarrassing lapse in judgement?
	__________________ "Live every week like it's Shark Week." -- Tracy Jordan

8th April 2011, 12:49 PM	#42
Fitter Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,114	Originally Posted by saganite <snip> Does this mean that any one of us could be subject to the same embarrassing lapse in judgement? I know I could. I can only hope that I recognise it when it is pointed out to me.
Fitter Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 4,114

8th April 2011, 01:04 PM	#43
SkepticScott TAM Volunteer Guy Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: north of Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 2,997	Originally Posted by TsarBomba Maybe the National Center For Missing And Exploited Children would be the most appropriate group. It is more focused on children than Equality Now. I think you're right. I know EN does work against such things as child marriages, but the people might miss the message. The NCFMAEC would be a clear statement. Originally Posted by Fitter I know I could. I can only hope that I recognise it when it is pointed out to me. Me too, and I hope I graciously thank the person who points it out to me.
	__________________ -- Scott

8th April 2011, 01:20 PM	#44
Eos of the Eons Mad Scientist Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 13,749	On the cruise, we agreed to yell "moo" if one of us started to display a lapse, like one in judgement or revealing our token woo woo. It's easy to recognize it in others, but very difficult to recognize it in our own selves. Now, "moo" may not be appropriapte at TAM, maybe yelling "Krauss" would be now?
	__________________ Motion affecting a measuring device does not affect what is actually being measured, except to inaccurately measure it. the immaterial world doesn't matter, cause it ain't matter-Jeff Corey my karma ran over my dogma-vbloke The Lateral Truth: An Apostate's Bible Stories by Rebecca Bradley, read it!

8th April 2011, 02:02 PM	#46
Dicon is not a radish Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,142	I am hereby volunteering to be the Sunday afternoon MDC test subject, by publically predicting in this public forum that Krauss will withdraw from TAM between now and July. It shall still be considered a hit if the JREF is the one who withdraws him. Finally, it shall still be considered a hit if he makes his scheduled appearance, as I will assert that at some point he thought about withdrawing.
Dicon is not a radish Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,142

8th April 2011, 01:32 PM	#45
Disraeli Ears You may call me Heather Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 322	Originally Posted by SkepticScott I think you're right. I know EN does work against such things as child marriages, but the people might miss the message. The NCFMAEC would be a clear statement. I agree on NCFMAEC...and I would be willing to help with the organization of such a fundraiser. And count me as another who would appreciate being called out by my skeptical friends if I were to pull a "Krauss." I still can't believe he had the nerve to play the "you skeptics should really be more skeptical" card!

8th April 2011, 02:21 PM	#47
TsarBomba One Damn Dirty Ape Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 808	Originally Posted by Dicon I am hereby volunteering to be the Sunday afternoon MDC test subject, by publically predicting in this public forum that Krauss will withdraw from TAM between now and July. It shall still be considered a hit if the JREF is the one who withdraws him. Finally, it shall still be considered a hit if he makes his scheduled appearance, as I will assert that at some point he thought about withdrawing. I still think you will loose. Dr. Krauss is too big a fish for the JREF to flush him, and with an ego as large as Dr. Krauss has, I doubt he will even think about withdrawing, much less doing it.
	__________________ Signature line? I don't need no stinking signature line!

8th April 2011, 02:25 PM	#48
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Nap, interrupted. Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 19,133	Could someone summarize what Krauss has said about this mess, with sources? ~~ Paul
	__________________ Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. ---Susan Ertz RIP Mr. Skinny, Tim

8th April 2011, 02:43 PM	#49
Dunstan Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,289	Originally Posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Could someone summarize what Krauss has said about this mess, with sources? ~~ Paul The original post does that just fine, I think.
Dunstan Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,289

8th April 2011, 02:55 PM	#50
kittynh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 22,634	the Skepchick article is pretty good. At least the sources, we don't seem to know if Krauss has read or knew about the secret diary.

8th April 2011, 03:05 PM	#51
TsarBomba One Damn Dirty Ape Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 808	Originally Posted by kittynh the Skepchick article is pretty good. At least the sources, we don't seem to know if Krauss has read or knew about the secret diary. And, who knows if Dr. Krauss knew that Mr. Epstein apparently brought young ladies to his spacious estate on a daily basis to give him "massages" when few, if any, of these young ladies were actual massage therapists.
	__________________ Signature line? I don't need no stinking signature line!

8th April 2011, 04:10 PM	#52
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Nap, interrupted. Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 19,133	Okay, thanks. I thought there might be additional information elsewhere. ~~ Paul
	__________________ Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. ---Susan Ertz RIP Mr. Skinny, Tim

8th April 2011, 04:13 PM	#53
saganite Black-and-white Cat-foot Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2,299	The comments on the article are as interesting as the article itself, if not more. Each time Krauss responds, he digs his hole deeper.
	__________________ "Live every week like it's Shark Week." -- Tracy Jordan

8th April 2011, 04:26 PM	#54
Verde Muse Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Where the jackalopes roam. Posts: 817	I'll admit to not having heard of Krauss before reading this thread. As far as I can tell from reading the posts and following a couple of the links he has not been charged with anything other than having a poor choice of friends. If he genuinely believed that his buddy was cavorting with ladies of age, then I would tag him as naive, but would let it go at that. If he knew that Epstein was raping children, and continued to support him, then a walkout at TAM would be far too mild. Which was it? I don't know, I can't read his mind. V.
	__________________ It makes sense, if you don't think about it. - T-Mobile ad You're innocent when you dream. - Tom Waits Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool. - Samuel Clemens

8th April 2011, 04:32 PM	#55
Dicon is not a radish Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,142	Originally Posted by TsarBomba I still think you will loose. Dr. Krauss is too big a fish for the JREF to flush him, and with an ego as large as Dr. Krauss has, I doubt he will even think about withdrawing, much less doing it. Well then, I think it's only reasonable that I consider that scenario to be a hit as well.
Dicon is not a radish Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 3,142

8th April 2011, 05:31 PM	#56
TsarBomba One Damn Dirty Ape Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 808	Originally Posted by Dicon Well then, I think it's only reasonable that I consider that scenario to be a hit as well. That would seem to be the reasonable approach.
	__________________ Signature line? I don't need no stinking signature line!

8th April 2011, 05:52 PM	#57
kittynh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 22,634	Just a side note, with "Krauss" becoming a new word for uncritical thinking... in the UFO community a "McGaha" is a "THIS is what THAT was" by a skeptic "expert" that is really just a guess and turns out to be so totally wrong it hurts the skeptic movement. Too often skeptic "experts" like to proclaim "oh I know what THAT is!" way before they have enough information and evidence.

9th April 2011, 12:47 AM	#58
Simon39759 Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,285	The obvious solution would be to combine the two and organize a money-raising activity, maybe an auction, during the talk. For example, maybe people could donate trinkets (or books and such), then people could get on the scene and the first person to guess their age would win the trinkets. Each guess would then require a small donation...

9th April 2011, 01:04 PM	#59
kittynh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 22,634	http://indieskeptics.com/2011/04/09/rights-and-wrongs/ remember since this is a billionare we are talking about...just like Scientologists...this is SO NOT The Kitty that lives in New Hampshire! This Kitty lives in Peoria.

9th April 2011, 10:11 PM	#60
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,948	Originally Posted by saganite One reason I find this so disturbing is because it seems so obvious to the rest of us that Krauss is relying on nothing more than gut feelings right now, yet he's 100% sure that this is enough to support his personal opinion. In other words, a well-known and well-respected skeptic is acting like a complete woomeister, it's been pointed out to him repeatedly, yet he's refusing to acknowledge it. Does this mean that any one of us could be subject to the same embarrassing lapse in judgement? In a word: yes. We are all subject to cognitive dissonance, in one form or another. Thankfully, though, I'm guessing that most of us don't take it to the extreme or do so as publicly as Dr. Krauss has done in this case. So we're on for ice cream. Nice. Others are welcome to join us.
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We *** up the air, the water, we **** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?"* -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness

10th April 2011, 11:51 AM	#61
saganite Black-and-white Cat-foot Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 2,299	Interesting link, kittynh. Mattus -- it's so on. Will you indulge in a Controversy Crunch Cone with me?
	__________________ "Live every week like it's Shark Week." -- Tracy Jordan

10th April 2011, 12:16 PM	#62
Jono Master Poster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,052	Lawrence (yes you, Krauss), sometimes the people whose character you think you know to be upstanding turn out to be scumbags. Unfortunately, foolish denial about it only moves your own character one more step toward the 'scumbagian' corner. The man's got a bad case of repulsive horny-toad syndrome. This isn't some figment of the media's imagination, it is not a witch hunt. It's the established record of a man's habitual and unlawful tendencies. Shame on you.
	__________________ "I don't believe I ever saw an Oklahoman who wouldn't fight at the drop of a hat -- and frequently drop the hat himself." - Robert E. Howard

10th April 2011, 01:25 PM	#63
bumlet5 Indescribable Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,366	I will say that we need someone back in the room to tweet about it, and to tell someone directly (via text, perhaps?) when he's done so we can go back to see the rest of the speakers.
bumlet5 Indescribable Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,366	__________________ "I'm a soundwave tsunami, vocal origami, hijack the mic and it's not like anyone could stop me." -mc chris "I've seen so much death" <("<) (>")> <("<) (>")> <("<) (>")> -Nathan Fillion

10th April 2011, 01:29 PM	#64
kittynh Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 22,634	Ice cream rocks.

10th April 2011, 01:45 PM	#65
Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Westchester County, NY (when not in space) Posts: 15,590	Originally Posted by bumlet5 I will say that we need someone back in the room to tweet about it, and to tell someone directly (via text, perhaps?) when he's done so we can go back to see the rest of the speakers. I might be willing to volunteer to do that, since I was willing to sit in the room, and put up with his putrid nonsense, anyway. But, I might have to think about it, more, depending on the nature of the alternative activity. Originally Posted by kittynh Ice cream rocks. I prefer Ice cream cones. Rocks are often tough to chew on.
	__________________ WARNING: Phrases in this post may sound meaner than they were intended to be. SkeptiCamp NYC: http://www.skepticampnyc.org/ An open conference on science and skepticism, where *you* could be a presenter! By the way, my first name is NOT Bowerick!!!!

10th April 2011, 05:31 PM	#66
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,948	Originally Posted by saganite Interesting link, kittynh. Mattus -- it's so on. Will you indulge in a Controversy Crunch Cone with me? How can I possibly refuse such a... tasty & desirable offer such as that?
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We *** up the air, the water, we **** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?"* -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness

10th April 2011, 06:10 PM	#67
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 15,948	My two cents on the matter, if anyone cares: http://skepticalteacher.wordpress.co...krauss-fiasco/ Cheers - MM
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher "We *** up the air, the water, we **** up each other. Why don't we just finish the job by flushing our brains down the toilet?"* -- John Trent, In the Mouth of Madness

10th April 2011, 06:33 PM	#68
plumjam Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 7,819	About an hour after Krauss's TAM appearance there'll be some Asian-looking dwarf dancing about on Epstein Island, shouting "Boss, the plane! The plane, boss!"
plumjam Banned Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 7,819

10th April 2011, 07:59 PM	#69
skeptic555 Student Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 27	@Verde demonstrates the point I was going to make - which is that it would be a mistake to assume a plurality in that room will know whats going on if a protest is planned. I now do, having seen this thread, but of the 1300 or so at TAM, how many will have seen this story discussed here (or even elsewhere with a TAM-centric spin)? Its easy to assume things we know about are in the common knowledge category for everyone, especially at a place like TAM. But it just ain't so. Without context, even a hundred people walking out at the start of a speaker is pretty much a bathroom break. I'm not weighing in on if its a good or a bad idea - everything I know about this issue I read here, which is dangerous enough in and of itself. I'm just saying if something is planned - make sure people know the WHY. Perhaps that big ol whiteboard could be put to use?
skeptic555 Student Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 27

11th April 2011, 07:42 AM	#70
TsarBomba One Damn Dirty Ape Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 808	Originally Posted by skeptic555 @Verde demonstrates the point I was going to make - which is that it would be a mistake to assume a plurality in that room will know whats going on if a protest is planned. I now do, having seen this thread, but of the 1300 or so at TAM, how many will have seen this story discussed here (or even elsewhere with a TAM-centric spin)? Its easy to assume things we know about are in the common knowledge category for everyone, especially at a place like TAM. But it just ain't so. Without context, even a hundred people walking out at the start of a speaker is pretty much a bathroom break. I'm not weighing in on if its a good or a bad idea - everything I know about this issue I read here, which is dangerous enough in and of itself. I'm just saying if something is planned - make sure people know the WHY. Perhaps that big ol whiteboard could be put to use? Agreed, this little thread would not be enough to inform more than a minuscule fraction. I would think that anything organized and well publicized would come through the Skepchicks, and they could probably get PZ Myers involved. If Rececca were leading something, she could mention it on the SGU, which would inform a substantial percentage of the people attending. Since Rebecca essentially broke this story in the skeptical blogosphere, she may already be planning something.
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11th April 2011, 12:47 PM	#71
xinit Muse Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 581	Originally Posted by Wowbagger But, I might have to think about it, more, depending on the nature of the alternative activity. I don't think that any walkout should be misinterpreted as people just not being interested. If you intend to show that you're not supporting the speaker, I think you need to make it more obvious. It's not unusual for the audience size to go up and down significantly depending on how boring the next speaker is going to be. Stay in the room, and make everyone else in the room aware of what's going on. Stand up and turn away from the stage and stand there. Be a bit obstructive.
xinit Muse Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 581

11th April 2011, 01:06 PM	#72
SkepticScott TAM Volunteer Guy Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: north of Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 2,997	Originally Posted by xinit Stay in the room, and make everyone else in the room aware of what's going on. Stand up and turn away from the stage and stand there. Be a bit obstructive. Please don't do this. If you obstruct someone's view -- someone who paid to see this person -- you're not harming the speaker, you're harming your fellow audience member.
	__________________ -- Scott

11th April 2011, 01:11 PM	#73
xinit Muse Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 581	Originally Posted by SkepticScott Please don't do this. If you obstruct someone's view -- someone who paid to see this person -- you're not harming the speaker, you're harming your fellow audience member. Fair enough... though there's a pretty decent amount of space right up front, and the stage is pretty high. If people were to go up to the front, where the speaker could see, and turn around... wouldn't be obstructive, but would be pretty visible.
xinit Muse Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 581

11th April 2011, 01:23 PM	#74
bumlet5 Indescribable Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,366	Step to the sides of the room, perhaps? Not blocking the attendees, but well seen by the speaker.
bumlet5 Indescribable Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 5,366	__________________ "I'm a soundwave tsunami, vocal origami, hijack the mic and it's not like anyone could stop me." -mc chris "I've seen so much death" <("<) (>")> <("<) (>")> <("<) (>")> -Nathan Fillion

11th April 2011, 01:40 PM	#75
Kochanski Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Anonymous Unimportant Place (not a secret Scorpion training facility for Shosuro ninjas) Posts: 3,187	We could always use that time to take a forum pic All go down and stand by the horse's ass and take a group pic.
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