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Old 15th March 2019, 01:14 AM   #4241
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Jeremy Corbyn, the ostensible Labour leader?

Or "purported", or "alleged"...
"Alledged" sounds about right.

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Old 15th March 2019, 01:54 AM   #4242
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Interestingly enough, we were both wrong on this count.
Well my track record as a political pundit is pretty poor

Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
One more vote on the deal and if it fails through the government will decide whether or not to cancel Brexit altogether, or so I've heard.

McHrozni
Heard from whom ?

I'd have thought the alternatives were Theresa May's deal or no deal.

Always supposing that the EU grants the request for an extension.
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Old 15th March 2019, 02:01 AM   #4243
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Jeremy Corbyn, the ostensible Labour leader?

Or "purported", or "alleged"...
I hear the latest nickname for Theresa May is "Lino". Further justified by the way the party seems to be walking all over her.

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Old 15th March 2019, 02:12 AM   #4244
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Jeremy Corbyn, the ostensible Labour leader?

Or "purported", or "alleged"...
I disagree. Jeremy Corbyn is the Labour leader and he has led the party into the cul-de-sac which is his personal political manifesto

I really do wish that the Labour Party had listened to its members and supporters and had strongly supported Remain but instead they chose to listen to a dotty old man whose political views are 45 years out of date because he got a big cheer at Glastonbury
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Old 15th March 2019, 02:28 AM   #4245
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Has Bercow ruled on whether May's agreement can be presented for a third time?
Twice was bad enough...
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Old 15th March 2019, 02:39 AM   #4246
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Has Bercow ruled on whether May's agreement can be presented for a third time?
Twice was bad enough...
She's sounding like Mrs Doyle from Father Ted "of course you do - go on, go on, go on"
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Old 15th March 2019, 02:44 AM   #4247
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Heard from whom ?
To be perfectly honest it was in an answer on Quora, from a guy who has been knowledgable on the matter thus far. I asked for a link, to see if it's anything more than a rumor.

Quote:
I'd have thought the alternatives were Theresa May's deal or no deal.
Maybe, but Theresa May could also be capable of learning. The Parliament expressly rejected a no deal scenario under any circumstance. She's been threatning "my deal or no deal" for months now, to no avail. Maybe she's changing tack, maybe she hopes to win the support for the deal if she threatnes "my deal or no Brexit".

Given her situation it's one of the smarter things she could do.

Quote:
Always supposing that the EU grants the request for an extension.
I'm sure EU would grant an extension to implement the deal, if it were already accepted. Undue chaos over a technical issue isn't in EU's best interest.

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Old 15th March 2019, 02:48 AM   #4248
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
Maybe, but Theresa May could also be capable of learning.
Evidence?

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Old 15th March 2019, 02:51 AM   #4249
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Evidence?

Dave
It's speculation, not an assertion

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Old 15th March 2019, 03:08 AM   #4250
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I have a theory that a lot of the best and brightest don't want anything to do with politics and that is why we are getting such bad leadership.
The educational achievements of politicians I am sure is higher than average, so they are bright.

I think the present situation shows that politics attracts competitive "me" people who are not very good at cooperation. Too many egos, too many chiefs.
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Old 15th March 2019, 03:12 AM   #4251
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I'm counting on you Estonia
That would be amazing, forced out of the EU in revenge for drunken stag parties from the UK ruining weekends in the capital.

In Riga Latvia it was horrible how UK stag parties suddenly appeared and their behaviour was awful. The bus tour even mentioned how some had been caught urinating on their national monument.
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Old 15th March 2019, 03:28 AM   #4252
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
The educational achievements of politicians I am sure is higher than average, so they are bright.

I think the present situation shows that politics attracts competitive "me" people who are not very good at cooperation. Too many egos, too many chiefs.
Over the last few years, I've been disabused of a couple of misconceptions.

I thought that news media outlets were interested in presenting the truth. I now understand that their sole objective is to attract customers. Once I understood that, so many other things made sense.

I thought that politicians were in the business of attempting to run the country. I now think that the majority are just in the business of attempting to get reelected. Since I have understood this, politicians' actions make so much more sense.
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Old 15th March 2019, 03:45 AM   #4253
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Over the last few years, I've been disabused of a couple of misconceptions.

I thought that news media outlets were interested in presenting the truth. I now understand that their sole objective is to attract customers. Once I understood that, so many other things made sense.

I thought that politicians were in the business of attempting to run the country. I now think that the majority are just in the business of attempting to get reelected. Since I have understood this, politicians' actions make so much more sense.
That's exactly right. It explains politics to the fullest.

That's why you should stick with media that seeks to attract customers who wish to be informed, not just filled with what they want to hear and politicians whose base is made of people who wish to see their country ran well, not helpless ideologues. Both exist.

For now anyway.

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Old 15th March 2019, 03:53 AM   #4254
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Originally Posted by McHrozni View Post
That's exactly right. It explains politics to the fullest.

That's why you should stick with media that seeks to attract customers who wish to be informed, not just filled with what they want to hear and politicians whose base is made of people who wish to see their country ran well, not helpless ideologues. Both exist.

For now anyway.

McHrozni
Unfortunately in the UK, politicians represent a specific geographic area so I'm not sure how easy it is to identify these. Personally I think it's the luck of the draw and I cannot choose who to vote for, just which party to vote for.
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Old 15th March 2019, 04:20 AM   #4255
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Has Bercow ruled on whether May's agreement can be presented for a third time?
Twice was bad enough...
Yes. No.
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Old 15th March 2019, 05:01 AM   #4256
McHrozni
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Unfortunately in the UK, politicians represent a specific geographic area so I'm not sure how easy it is to identify these. Personally I think it's the luck of the draw and I cannot choose who to vote for, just which party to vote for.
That is a part of the problem, yes.

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Old 15th March 2019, 07:24 AM   #4257
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Hadn't heard of this fellow in my ivory tower for PC gaming. Smart, even if he let out an aside I'd love to contest. Regardless, shiver me timbers.

Peterson Institute for International Economics: Posen Discusses the Damage of Brexit to the British Economy

IMO, the narrative that is guilty for Trump and Brexit is the Utopian Freedom Gospel, a term Posen never uses, but might've.
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Old 15th March 2019, 07:32 AM   #4258
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Originally Posted by Hlafordlaes View Post
Hadn't heard of this fellow in my ivory tower for PC gaming. Smart, even if he let out an aside I'd love to contest. Regardless, shiver me timbers.

Peterson Institute for International Economics: Posen Discusses the Damage of Brexit to the British Economy

IMO, the narrative that is guilty for Trump and Brexit is the Utopian Freedom Gospel, a term Posen never uses, but might've.
Very interesting - but am I only saying that because it aligns with my own views ?
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Old 15th March 2019, 08:12 AM   #4259
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I have a theory that a lot of the best and brightest don't want anything to do with politics and that is why we are getting such bad leadership.
Yes, by way of being in a positive feedback loop with the public's distrust and disdain for competency and expertise.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:00 AM   #4260
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
Yes, by way of being in a positive feedback loop with the public's distrust and disdain for competency and expertise.

I view it as a little like the clergy in medieval Europe.

Second and third sons, those without much prospect of succeeding elsewhere, maybe they're not very bright, shipped off to where they'll have an income and not cause anybody any issues while the first sons and the best and brightest went and did something proper.


It seems to have backfired.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:21 AM   #4261
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In high school and college there is always a certain type of student that considers the deadline for a project as the suggested start date, and always comes up with excuses why (s)he needs an extension even though everyone else is finished on time.

Too bad the UK chose a parliament made of only such people.
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:22 AM   #4262
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I view it as a little like the clergy in medieval Europe.

Second and third sons, those without much prospect of succeeding elsewhere, maybe they're not very bright, shipped off to where they'll have an income and not cause anybody any issues while the first sons and the best and brightest went and did something proper.


It seems to have backfired.
Certainly true of my local MP. The family own a haulage business and the brighter son runs that. The dimmer son helps to run the country....
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Old 15th March 2019, 09:48 AM   #4263
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Certainly true of my local MP. The family own a haulage business and the brighter son runs that. The dimmer son helps to run the country....
Is the dimmer sonís position to make the brighter sonís business go bankrupt through Brexit?
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Old 15th March 2019, 01:51 PM   #4264
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I view it as a little like the clergy in medieval Europe.

Second and third sons, those without much prospect of succeeding elsewhere, maybe they're not very bright, shipped off to where they'll have an income and not cause anybody any issues while the first sons and the best and brightest went and did something proper.


It seems to have backfired.
Hey, just a minute! How it worked was that first born sons inherited the entire entitled estate whereas subsequent males had to figure out what to do independent of anyone's talent or smarts. Clergy, the military, or overseas colonization were among the only options available to second sons, etc. "The trades" (e.g. business ventures) etc. were considered too demeaning as an option for these supernumerary high born. Obviously in many cases it was the first born who were not very bright but couldn't be shipped off.

I'm a second son but luckily a commoner and in the US.
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Old 15th March 2019, 02:12 PM   #4265
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These two commentaries might make Brexit pain bit duller:
Who cares about food and medicine? Brexit is the best nightly entertainment show Britain has ever had

Theresa May has kicked the Brexit can so far down the road it's not even on the same street anymore
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Old 15th March 2019, 03:13 PM   #4266
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Over the last few years, I've been disabused of a couple of misconceptions.

I thought that news media outlets were interested in presenting the truth. I now understand that their sole objective is to attract customers. Once I understood that, so many other things made sense.

I thought that politicians were in the business of attempting to run the country. I now think that the majority are just in the business of attempting to get reelected. Since I have understood this, politicians' actions make so much more sense.
The last paragraph is why I have become such a strong advocate of term limits.
Make it so you can't make a lifetime career out of elective office, and you will maybe get people who are more interested in actually making things better and getting good policy in place then in getting relected. You might be more willing to make a unpopular vote that is the right thing to do if you know you are only going be there for a few years anyway. (Actual day to day running of the country is the job of the permanent government employees anyway).
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Old 15th March 2019, 03:15 PM   #4267
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
The whole Brexit fiasco is a result of wanting to kick the can down the road:ie, avoid making a difficult decision.
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Old 16th March 2019, 12:20 AM   #4268
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The last paragraph is why I have become such a strong advocate of term limits.
Make it so you can't make a lifetime career out of elective office, and you will maybe get people who are more interested in actually making things better and getting good policy in place then in getting relected. You might be more willing to make a unpopular vote that is the right thing to do if you know you are only going be there for a few years anyway. (Actual day to day running of the country is the job of the permanent government employees anyway).
Do you see better governance in California post term limits?

Mod InfoThread closed due to size. Continued here.
Posted By:zooterkin

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