Judy Wood: Towed vs. FDR drive toasted cars..

[Gamolon]

Just came across this, so I did a little investigation. Not sure if this was ever brought up before.

Judy says this about toasted cars on FDR vs. being towed.

Originally Posted by Judy Wood

In the debate over toasted cars ignited by this article, some have argued that the wrecked vehicles on FDR drive were damaged at the WTC and were loaded up and transported and dumped on FDR drive for storage. First, there is no evidence that this was done.

I found this photo yesterday of car 2723 that I had never seen before. The red arrow on the right points to, what I eventually figured out, the words "The Millenium Hilton". Also notice the tree branch circled in red.


Here is a Google Earth photo of the same area. Notice the tree branch on the left and the words "The Millenium Hilton" on the right.


Here are the photos Judy puts on her site for the car 2327 being burned at the FDR location.



Does this constitute the non existing evidence that the car was moved to the FDR location that she claims doesn't exist?

Thoughts?

[TruthersLie]

Have you emailed this to Dr. woods?

It seriously throws doubts on her claim...

[DGM]

Originally Posted by Gamolon

Thoughts?

"They" put it back and staged that photo as "dis-info".

It is really easy to be a "truther".

[Gamolon]

Not as of yet.

I wasn't sure if this was ever discussed before. I just found that top photo of car 2723 yesterday and finally had a chance to try and locate it by figuring out the words "The Millenium Hilton" in the background. Then matching background objects.

[alienentity]

Originally Posted by Gamolon

Not as of yet.

I wasn't sure if this was ever discussed before. I just found that top photo of car 2723 yesterday and finally had a chance to try and locate it by figuring out the words "The Millenium Hilton" in the background. Then matching background objects.

Well done! Most people wouldn't even bother to take her claims one-by-one because they're so utterly worthless. But you did, demonstrating once again how incompetent Dr Wood is.

[Sabretooth]

Good work!

Now, I'm not sure if that's a breeze, the HAARP weapon, or Judy Wood is already handwaving...

[Kent1]

Originally Posted by Sabretooth

Good work!

Now, I'm not sure if that's a breeze, the HAARP weapon, or Judy Wood is already handwaving...

Nice work. Its fun when you can pin down some of these claims.

Even the really stupid ones!

[TraneWreck]

Yeah, but still...

[Horatius]

Originally Posted by DGM

"They" put it back and staged that photo as "dis-info".

It is really easy to be a "truther".

No, your post is "obvious disinfo". It's clear that this isn't the same car! Look at the window frame of the driver's side door - it's bent in the "towed" photo, but not in the "not towed" photo.

There is of course no way on Earth that a door frame could be bent while moving a damaged car about.

[triforcharity]

Excellent job! Did this come from someone's personel collection, or was this part of a FOIA rquest? I haven't seen that photo myself.

[jaydeehess]

Originally Posted by DGM

"They" put it back and staged that photo as "dis-info".

It is really easy to be a "truther".

P'ah its easier than that DGM, just say after me "Photoshop".

[sylvan8798]

Don't be silly - ALL the cars have "2723" on them .

Good find, Gamolon - I bet some searching would turn up more of these. I may even give this game a try later!

[Oystein]

This forum is amazing!

# oysteinbookmark

[Macgyver1968]

Nice bit of detective work there Sherlock! I'll use this the next time I'm talking to a Woodsie.

Edit: I noticed you posted this same info over at DIF. Bet you a 6 pack of good beer that it gets ignored or handwaved.

[leftysergeant]

And, to the chattering drongos who shriek about the paper in the streets not burning, note that the slurry around the car still in situ is composed largely of burnt paper without a lot of dust pile on top of it to prevent ignition.

[TJM]

Greetings Gamalon.

Thank you for your post as this will add to the quality of the thread. Let me double check for accuracy of understanding: You claim that this particular police vehicle was destroyed in the vicinity of the Millenium Hilton on 9/11. I do not disagree but rather I urge you to check the evidence . We know DEW was used on 9/11 and that is not refutable. If you look closely at Dr. Wood's writings, You will note that it is proven that DEW has strong electromagnetic properties, the scope of which are unknown. It is far more likely that these vehicles became magnetically charged and became attracted to the large iron columns in the photo you provided in your opening post. Furthermore, I think you'll be hard pressed to find any record of vehicles being towed anywhere that day; I know I cannot find a single picture of a burned out vehicle being towed and if that isn't enough, consider this: Tow truck operators make part of their living by retrieving junk cars and taking them in to be sold for scrap, they wouldn't just drag them under a bridge and leave them there. There should have dozens of operators happily dragging away cars and yet not a single image to be found anywhere.

Lastly, you've possibly stumbled onto another unknown property of DEW: In addition to unimaginable destructive power and stealth, it's seems that it also has the ability to tidy up after itself and dissipate, as the neatly arranged rows of burned out vehicles seems to indicate. Is it possible at last people are beginning to wake up and see this event for what it really was? Here's a hint:

It was DEW.



All the best.

[Macgyver1968]

Originally Posted by AJM8125

Greetings Gamalon.

Thank you for your post as this will add to the quality of the thread. Let me double check for accuracy of understanding: You claim that this particular police vehicle was destroyed in the vicinity of the Millenium Hilton on 9/11. I do not disagree but rather I urge you to check the evidence . We know DEW was used on 9/11 and that is not refutable. If you look closely at Dr. Wood's writings, You will note that it is proven that DEW has strong electromagnetic properties, the scope of which are unknown. It is far more likely that these vehicles became magnetically charged and became attracted to the large iron columns in the photo you provided in your opening post. Furthermore, I think you'll be hard pressed to find any record of vehicles being towed anywhere that day; I know I cannot find a single picture of a burned out vehicle being towed and if that isn't enough, consider this: Tow truck operators make part of their living by retrieving junk cars and taking them in to be sold for scrap, they wouldn't just drag them under a bridge and leave them there. There should have dozens of operators happily dragging away cars and yet not a single image to be found anywhere.

Lastly, you've possibly stumbled onto another unknown property of DEW: In addition to unimaginable destructive power and stealth, it's seems that it also has the ability to tidy up after itself and dissipate, as the neatly arranged rows of burned out vehicles seems to indicate. Is it possible at last people are beginning to wake up and see this event for what it really was? Here's a hint:

It was DEW.



All the best.

LOL...let me guess..you're drinking tonight...right?

[TJM]

Originally Posted by Macgyver1968

LOL...let me guess..you're drinking tonight...right?

Of course. Why should tonight be any different?

[EventHorizon]

Originally Posted by AJM8125

Greetings Gamalon.

Thank you for your post as this will add to the quality of the thread. Let me double check for accuracy of understanding: You claim that this particular police vehicle was destroyed in the vicinity of the Millenium Hilton on 9/11. I do not disagree but rather I urge you to check the evidence . We know DEW was used on 9/11 and that is not refutable. If you look closely at Dr. Wood's writings, You will note that it is proven that DEW has strong electromagnetic properties, the scope of which are unknown. It is far more likely that these vehicles became magnetically charged and became attracted to the large iron columns in the photo you provided in your opening post. Furthermore, I think you'll be hard pressed to find any record of vehicles being towed anywhere that day; I know I cannot find a single picture of a burned out vehicle being towed and if that isn't enough, consider this: Tow truck operators make part of their living by retrieving junk cars and taking them in to be sold for scrap, they wouldn't just drag them under a bridge and leave them there. There should have dozens of operators happily dragging away cars and yet not a single image to be found anywhere.

Lastly, you've possibly stumbled onto another unknown property of DEW: In addition to unimaginable destructive power and stealth, it's seems that it also has the ability to tidy up after itself and dissipate, as the neatly arranged rows of burned out vehicles seems to indicate. Is it possible at last people are beginning to wake up and see this event for what it really was? Here's a hint:

It was DEW.



All the best.

Good but not perfect. It would have achieved perfection if some of the lines were bigger than others for no apparent reason.

[Oz1976]

Originally Posted by AJM8125

Greetings Gamalon.

Thank you for your post as this will add to the quality of the thread. Let me double check for accuracy of understanding: You claim that this particular police vehicle was destroyed in the vicinity of the Millenium Hilton on 9/11. I do not disagree but rather I urge you to check the evidence . We know DEW was used on 9/11 and that is not refutable. If you look closely at Dr. Wood's writings, You will note that it is proven that DEW has strong electromagnetic properties, the scope of which are unknown. It is far more likely that these vehicles became magnetically charged and became attracted to the large iron columns in the photo you provided in your opening post. Furthermore, I think you'll be hard pressed to find any record of vehicles being towed anywhere that day; I know I cannot find a single picture of a burned out vehicle being towed and if that isn't enough, consider this: Tow truck operators make part of their living by retrieving junk cars and taking them in to be sold for scrap, they wouldn't just drag them under a bridge and leave them there. There should have dozens of operators happily dragging away cars and yet not a single image to be found anywhere.

Lastly, you've possibly stumbled onto another unknown property of DEW: In addition to unimaginable destructive power and stealth, it's seems that it also has the ability to tidy up after itself and dissipate, as the neatly arranged rows of burned out vehicles seems to indicate. Is it possible at last people are beginning to wake up and see this event for what it really was? Here's a hint:

It was DEW.



All the best.

EDIT: my sarcasm detector was on the fritz

[Oystein]

Originally Posted by EventHorizon

Good but not perfect. It would have achieved perfection if some of the lines were bigger than others for no apparent reason.

I missed the stills from youtube videos that, for example, show people walking on the sidewalk - well, that do not actually show people walking as they are stills after all - and thus proving holograms in the sky.

[jammonius]

Originally Posted by Gamolon

Just came across this, so I did a little investigation. Not sure if this was ever brought up before.

Judy says this about toasted cars on FDR vs. being towed.


I found this photo yesterday of car 2723 that I had never seen before. The red arrow on the right points to, what I eventually figured out, the words "The Millenium Hilton". Also notice the tree branch circled in red.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...car2723wtc.jpg

Here is a Google Earth photo of the same area. Notice the tree branch on the left and the words "The Millenium Hilton" on the right.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...eniumhotel.png

Here are the photos Judy puts on her site for the car 2327 being burned at the FDR location.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...ar2723fdrb.jpg
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/f...car2723fdr.jpg

Does this constitute the non existing evidence that the car was moved to the FDR location that she claims doesn't exist?

Thoughts?

Gamelon,

In my opinion, "yes" the photo you have posted constitutes evidence that the car was moved to the FDR location and therefore contradicts the claim made by Dr. Wood that "no evidence..." for that proposition had been presented.

It appears from the phrasing of your query that you are more interested in proving Dr. Wood "wrong" than you are in providing some useful evidence about what happened on 9/11.

I would say that the real point of emphasis is simply that there is no validly conducted, governmentally funded determination of what happened on 9/11 and that the evidence you found should have been found and discussed in a proper investigation of 9/11, but was not.

To repeat, you might be right about that toasted car having been moved and you are to be commended for finding evidence in support of that claim.

However, your quotation from Dr. Wood's book Where Did the Towers Go? is misleading and incomplete. Dr. Wood specifically acknowledged the existence of debate, that is to say, uncertainty about whether the cars were moved or not; noting that no evidence of moving had been presented. This means the photo you are relying on had not previously been available. You, yourself, say "I found this photo yesterday of car 2723 that I had never seen before...".

Where did you find it? Link? Source?

The purpose of evidence is to confirm or contradict a claim. New evidence is always welcomed.

Here, then, is what Dr. Wood had to say about the matter that is acknowledging of the existence of controversy about whether the cars were moved or not and her reasons for supporting the proposition they had not been moved:

Quote:

"When the debate over toasted cars arose, some argued that the wrecked vehicles under the FDR Drive had been damaged at the WTC and were then loaded up and transpofted to the FDR Drive for storage. But there are problems with this theory. First, there is no evidence that the moving of vehicles was done. Second, it makes no sense to laod up wrecks and transport them only to dump them by a busy thoroughfare for "storage." These wrecks would then have had to be picked up yet again and transported once more. If vehicles were truly moved from the WTC to the FDR Drive, we wonder why WTC steel beams were not stacked up under the FDR Drive as well, if it was such a good storage area. Third, governments may be stupid, but we doubt they coulkd be this inefficient. Further, if reported, such tampering with evidence would have been declared felonious. Marks on the roadway suggest that some of thes vehicles were pushed to the side of the roadway until they could later be removed [four photos then follow]" Where Did the Towers Go?pgs 217-18

Thank you for posting evidence concerning patrol car 2723. Doing so adds useful evidence and information.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by sylvan8798

Don't be silly - ALL the cars have "2723" on them .

2723.....is the Illuminati code for "sucka!!!!".





nice job OP. very very nice job.

[triforcharity]

Originally Posted by Thunder

2723.....is the Illuminati code for "sucka!!!!".





nice job OP. very very nice job.

[fitzgibbon]

And speaking of poster #2723......

[Oystein]

Originally Posted by jammonius

Gamelon,

...
It appears from the phrasing of your query that you are more interested in proving Dr. Wood "wrong" than you are in providing some useful evidence about what happened on 9/11.

Indeed, proving Dr. Wood wrong is not a fruitful endeavour, as she has already been proven wrong to death by about everybody who ever tackled her whacky claims, including the US Supreme Court and many regulars of this subforum.

Originally Posted by jammonius

I would say that the real point of emphasis is simply that there is no validly conducted, governmentally funded determination of what happened on 9/11 and that the evidence you found should have been found and discussed in a proper investigation of 9/11, but was not.

You keep claiming that, even though you have been made aware of many validly conducted, governmentally funded determination of what happened on 9/11, that had various foci, such as criminal (who dunnit), political/administrative (why wasn't it prevented), engineering (why and how did the buildings collapse, and how can such occurances be prevented in the future, as well as investigations in such fields as air traffic saftey and procedures, stock markets, etc.

Originally Posted by jammonius

To repeat, you might be right about that toasted car having been moved and you are to be commended for finding evidence in support of that claim.

However, your quotation from Dr. Wood's book Where Did the Towers Go? is misleading and incomplete. Dr. Wood specifically acknowledged the existence of debate, that is to say, uncertainty about whether the cars were moved or not; noting that no evidence of moving had been presented. This means the photo you are relying on had not previously been available. You, yourself, say "I found this photo yesterday of car 2723 that I had never seen before...".

Where did you find it? Link? Source?

The purpose of evidence is to confirm or contradict a claim. New evidence is always welcomed.

Here, then, is what Dr. Wood had to say about the matter that is acknowledging of the existence of controversy about whether the cars were moved or not and her reasons for supporting the proposition they had not been moved:

Originally Posted by Judy Wood

When the debate over toasted cars arose, some argued that the wrecked vehicles under the FDR Drive had been damaged at the WTC and were then loaded up and transpofted to the FDR Drive for storage. But there are problems with this theory. First, there is no evidence that the moving of vehicles was done. Second, it makes no sense to laod up wrecks and transport them only to dump them by a busy thoroughfare for "storage." These wrecks would then have had to be picked up yet again and transported once more. If vehicles were truly moved from the WTC to the FDR Drive, we wonder why WTC steel beams were not stacked up under the FDR Drive as well, if it was such a good storage area. Third, governments may be stupid, but we doubt they coulkd be this inefficient. Further, if reported, such tampering with evidence would have been declared felonious. Marks on the roadway suggest that some of thes vehicles were pushed to the side of the roadway until they could later be removed [four photos then follow]" Where Did the Towers Go?pgs 217-18

Thank you for posting evidence concerning patrol car 2723. Doing so adds useful evidence and information.

Thanks for the verbose quote. It illustrates Wood's frame of mind when she is thinking about 9/11. It demonstrates how she started with a conclusion ("DEW toasted cars as far away as FDR drive"), and then invented no less than five reasons why the cars were not moved:
1. Absence of evidence = evidence of absence. A well known fallacy
2. Wood can't imagine why moving cars away from emergency to a nearby temporary location would make sense in the urgency of the day. Argument from personal ignorance is a fallacy.
3. Assuming an arbitrary government efficiency. We all know how fallacious that is.
4. Asserting tampering with evidence, when saving lives and properties were a higher priority (they always are). Woods is painfully unaware of how police and emergency organisations work together.
5. Arguing that if some cars were only pushed to the side, then no car could have been towed away. False dilemma. A fallacy.

It turns out that all five reasons were fallacious, and that the foregone conclusion was false, yet both Mrs. Wood and you, jammomnius, believed in the 5 fallacious arguments and the false conclusion - evidently not based on evidence but based on prejudice.

It is this frame of mind that prevents both of you from realizing that ALL claims made by Mrs Wood are false and fallaciously reasoned in this way to confirm a deluded conclusion.

In short: You have no evidence. All the evidence eventually goes against you.

[alienentity]

Judy Wood is plain dishonest at times. In a March 16, 2010 interview on http://nofda.com/ with the 'Aroostook Watchmen' she misrepresented the forced retirement of Steven Jones. She was lamenting how anyone who starts investigating alternative theories on 9/11 loses their job - 'your reputation is destroyed if you stand up for the truth'..
when the interviewer asked her about her own situation, she refused to discuss 'the details'.
She attempts to trash-talk Dr. Jones by accusing him of deliberate disinfo, and she declares it is a 'crime to defraud the government', and 'treason if you're a government agent doing so - doing psyops on the government'
Then, prompted by her suggestion, the interviewer asked her about Dr Steven Jones, 'We're told that he lost his job at BYU'.
Dr Wood replied 'No! He has income, he bought a retirement home a couple of months before retiring.'
The interviewer is skeptical, so she clarifies 'he didn't lose his job, he retired'
Interviewer: 'he retired, on his own volition?'
Judy Wood: 'Yes'

Note: Dr Jones was more or less forced out from BYU. They stopped short of firing him, that is true. This is a matter of public record, and Dr Judy Wood is obviously attempting to smear him and obfuscate about the career-ending events.

I'm no fan of Dr. Jones, in fact I think he's crossed the line into the realm of the con artist himself, but the fact is that he lost his job at BYU after he published his paper "Why Indeed did the WTC Buildings Collapse" in his own publication, the Journal of 9/11 Studies.
Jones removed his paper from BYU's website at the request of administrators and was placed on paid leave 2 weeks after publishing the paper.
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=476951
A statement from A. Woodruff Miller, Department Chair, BYU department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, said 'I think without exception, the structural engineering professors in our department are not in agreement with the claims made by Jones in his paper, and they don't think there is accuracy and validity to these claims'.... 'Professor Jones' department and college administrators are not convinced that his analyses and hypotheses have been submitted to relevant scientific venues that would ensure rigorous technical peer review'

He was to have been placed under a review by BYU administration, the College of Physical and Mathematical Sciences, and the Physics Department. But a few weeks after he was placed on leave, he reached an agreement with BYU to retire and the review was cancelled.
' The university abandoned its review of his 9/11-related work Friday after the agreement was reached, university spokeswoman Carri Jenkins said.'
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/6...ll-retire.html

Dr Wood's behavior is consistent with her general characteristic of evasion, misrepresentation and false claims. The fact that she has been caught again and again making false claims should provide not only a direct rebuttal of her theories but insight into her generally dishonest nature.

[NoahFence]

Originally Posted by Thunder

2723.....is the Illuminati code for "sucka!!!!".





nice job OP. very very nice job.

Not sure if it's been said yet, but 2723.......

2+7 is 9
9+2 is 11
3 Towers Collapsed.



Where's my million bucks??!

[leftysergeant]

Originally Posted by jammonius

I would say that the real point of emphasis is simply that there is no validly conducted, governmentally funded determination of what happened on 9/11 and that the evidence you found should have been found and discussed in a proper investigation of 9/11, but was not.

To repeat, you might be right about that toasted car having been moved and you are to be commended for finding evidence in support of that claim.

However, your quotation from Dr. Wood's book "Where Did the Towers Go?" is misleading and incomplete. Dr. Wood specifically acknowledged the existence of debate, that is to say, uncertainty about whether the cars were moved or not; noting that no evidence of moving had been presented. This means the photo you are relying on had not previously been available. You, yourself, say "I found this photo yesterday of car 2723 that I had never seen before..."

There never was any debate among rational people regarding whether Judy had two fully-functioning synapses firing. She has no proof of her DEW theory. This is just the best example of her stupidity.

And you need to take a look at the picture of the car in situ. It is clearly a NORMAL burned out car.

The less the whacky old bat says about "toasted cars" the less harm she does her own credibility (As though she ever had any.)

[jammonius]

2nd Request



Original source and link, please.

[triforcharity]

Just out of curiosity, does it matter? Maybe it was his original photo? Which would mean, it's his own, and he is the source for it.

But, that's just me.

[NoahFence]

Originally Posted by jammonius

2nd Request



Original source and link, please.

It looks like the original source was a digital camera. However, without the metadata I can't be sure which one.

CONSPIRACY!

[TJM]

Originally Posted by jammonius

2nd Request


Original source and link, please.

How 'bout a second image instead.

[Sam.I.Am]

###enter basic jammymode loop

10 if picture = contradictory evidence then ask for sourcex
20 if sourcex is provided goto 40
30 goto 10
40 if sourcex = private citizen goto 70
50 if sourcex = government agency then goto 90
60 if sourcex is unknown then goto 80
70 private citizen is a lizard person who cannot be reached on the far side of the moon. goto 100
80 unknown agency is Mossad paid by the MIC goto 100
90 government agency is involved in COINTELPRO goto 100
100 take lithium pills laced with LSD
110 for x = 1 to 10000
120 next x
130 if x=10000 then goto 140 else goto 120
140 conclusion = blob thingie in sky
150 sleepmode
160 goto 40

[Thunder]

took 10 years to find the original photo?

sounds suspicious....to me.

[Justin39640]

Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am

###enter basic jammymode loop

10 if picture = contradictory evidence then ask for sourcex
20 if sourcex is provided goto 40
30 goto 10
40 if sourcex = private citizen goto 70
50 if sourcex = government agency then goto 90
60 if sourcex is unknown then goto 80
70 private citizen is a lizard person who cannot be reached on the far side of the moon. goto 100
80 unknown agency is Mossad paid by the MIC goto 100
90 government agency is involved in COINTELPRO goto 100
100 take lithium pills laced with LSD
110 for x = 1 to 10000
120 next x
130 if x=10000 then goto 140 else goto 120
140 conclusion = blob thingie in sky
150 sleepmode
160 goto 40

ha! Nice one.

[alienentity]

Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am

###enter basic jammymode loop

10 if picture = contradictory evidence then ask for sourcex
20 if sourcex is provided goto 40
30 goto 10
40 if sourcex = private citizen goto 70
50 if sourcex = government agency then goto 90
60 if sourcex is unknown then goto 80
70 private citizen is a lizard person who cannot be reached on the far side of the moon. goto 100
80 unknown agency is Mossad paid by the MIC goto 100
90 government agency is involved in COINTELPRO goto 100
100 take lithium pills laced with LSD
110 for x = 1 to 10000
120 next x
130 if x=10000 then goto 140 else goto 120
140 conclusion = blob thingie in sky
150 sleepmode
160 goto 40

Brilliant!

[A W Smith]

Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am

###enter basic jammymode loop

10 if picture = contradictory evidence then ask for sourcex
20 if sourcex is provided goto 40
30 goto 10
40 if sourcex = private citizen goto 70
50 if sourcex = government agency then goto 90
60 if sourcex is unknown then goto 80
70 private citizen is a lizard person who cannot be reached on the far side of the moon. goto 100
80 unknown agency is Mossad paid by the MIC goto 100
90 government agency is involved in COINTELPRO goto 100
100 take lithium pills laced with LSD
110 for x = 1 to 10000
120 next x
130 if x=10000 then goto 140 else goto 120
140 conclusion = blob thingie in sky
150 sleepmode
160 goto 40

Nice! You have succeeded in reverse engineering Jammonius!

[LashL]

Nicely done, Gamolon. Kudos to you.

ETA: and nicely done to you, too, Sam.I.Am. Hilarosity ensues.

[Travis]

I like this kind of debunking.


Good work.