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Tags dylan farrow , mia farrow , sexual misconduct charges , woody allen

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Old 4th February 2014, 08:17 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Well, my wife's friend was 50 years old and was dating two men, a 65 year old and a 25 year old. Her advice to my wife . . . "If you have a choice between a 65 year old and a 25 year old, take the 25 year old. They're more fun to hang out with and they can **** all night!"

When I was 34, I dated a 20 year old. When I was 15 I had sex with a 35 year old. Both were awesome. Age is just a number.
Oh you poor,poor victim!!! Taken advantage of by an old woman in your innocent teen years!!!!!
You have my sympathy!!
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Old 4th February 2014, 08:26 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by colander View Post
A rapist reunion party at Dave and Busters?
Not exactly. I'm supporting something more educationally oriented - something that would fully alert the gentleman involved and help them acknowledge the error of their ways. I like to call it Terminal Education as it is currently the only educational philosophy that, when properly followed' guarantees that the persons so educated will be certain to a)learn the required lessons with their full attention engaged AND b) will be certain to never repeat errors.
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Old 4th February 2014, 08:51 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Not exactly. I'm supporting something more educationally oriented - something that would fully alert the gentleman involved and help them acknowledge the error of their ways. I like to call it Terminal Education as it is currently the only educational philosophy that, when properly followed' guarantees that the persons so educated will be certain to a)learn the required lessons with their full attention engaged AND b) will be certain to never repeat errors.
In all seriousness, although it might be fun to think about, I don't think that vigilante justice is a very good answer to the rapist question. If there isn't enough evidence to convict a rapist, how can you justify killing them? What if you're wrong about the rape? Heck, even if you're right, you'd still be a murderer.

Honestly though I don't think I see a huge ethical problem with the idea of not paying to see a possible rapist's movies.

Last edited by colander; 4th February 2014 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 4th February 2014, 09:02 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
No, the letter attempted to shame actors and movie goers into shunning a man who quite probably did nothing wrong.
The only probability that can be reasonably claimed is that false accusations of child molestation are under 10%.

But wait, we aren't supposed to be dealing in fuzzy things like probabilities. We are supposed to be deciding between sentencing a man to death or not .
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Old 4th February 2014, 09:21 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
The only probability that can be reasonably claimed is that false accusations of child molestation are under 10%.

But wait, we aren't supposed to be dealing in fuzzy things like probabilities. We are supposed to be deciding between sentencing a man to death or not .
No, we're supposed to look at the evidence and see which side is supported.

Oh, right . . . there was no evidence that supported child abuse.

I think I'll watch another Woody Allen movie. He makes some great movies doesn't he?
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Old 4th February 2014, 10:46 PM   #246
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The guy's name is Woody. Case closed.
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Old 4th February 2014, 11:30 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
No, we're supposed to look at the evidence and see which side is supported.

Oh, right . . . there was no evidence that supported child abuse.
Then what the hell do you call this?

Quote:
One summer day in Connecticut, when Dylan was four and Woody was applying suntan lotion to her nude body, he alarmed Mia’s mother, actress Maureen O’Sullivan, and sister Tisa Farrow when he began rubbing his finger in the crack between her buttocks. Mia grabbed the lotion out of his hand, and O’Sullivan asked, “How do you want to be remembered by your children?” “As a good father,” Woody answered. “Well, that’s interesting,” O’Sullivan replied. “It only lasted a few seconds, but it was definitely weird,” says Tisa Farrow.
Seems to me like there were indeed substantial indications that something was not quite right with this relationship.

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I think I'll watch another Woody Allen movie. He makes some great movies doesn't he?
His movies are precious, pretentious and utterly dull.

Last edited by colander; 4th February 2014 at 11:32 PM.
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Old 4th February 2014, 11:55 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Age is just a number.

I would agree, but recent personal experience has shown me that this is far from a universal attitude, and there are people who do still get hung up on age.
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:06 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by colander View Post
Then what the hell do you call this?

Seems to me like there were indeed substantial indications that something was not quite right with this relationship.
I call it evidence that was debunked when the investigation team came to the conclusion that no abuse had taken place and that the most likely source of the claims was Mia Farrow herself.

ETA: Do you have an actual source for this because all I find is a blog where someone who knows little about the case wrote down a bunch of already debunked statements and claimed they were true. Like the claim that the investigation team was paid by Allen to find him not guilty.

Quote:
His movies are precious, pretentious and utterly dull.
It's a formula that wins him, and others, a lot of awards.
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Last edited by qayak; 5th February 2014 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:09 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
You have my sympathy!!
Thanks but you ain't getting any of the fun I had!
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:16 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by A'isha View Post
How can an article published in October have motivated the president of MSNBC to start looking at his television appearances and written pieces and be impressed enough to call him for a job the summer before?

Was time travel involved?
Er, no. The article says "the Vanity Fair piece effectively launched Ronan", it doesn't say "the Vanity Fair piece caused MSNBC to call him for a job".
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:18 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by Corsair 115 View Post
I would agree, but recent personal experience has shown me that this is far from a universal attitude, and there are people who do still get hung up on age.
Yes, there are. In my experience they are the people who tend to see everything as either black or white.
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:32 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
The letter asking us as movie fans/critics/etc. to not support a child molester. We have to reach a judgement when it comes to interacting with him and his work. It certainly isn't limited between two extremes, but this philosophic denial just doesn't hold water.
I disagree. Just because somebody says "you are either with me or against me", doesn't make it true. There isn't enough evidence to know who is telling the truth. Claiming that witholding judgment on everybody involved is the same as siding with Woody Allen is emotionally manipulative ********.

I'd also like to add that I don't think the 10% of claims being false statistic is well supported. Even if it's true, surely when the facts of what are claimed are denied by other people who were there, that number would go up? When one of the siblings doesn't believe it and says the mother was brainwashing them, the percentage goes up. When the investigators come to the conclusion that the childs story is unreliable, the percentage goes up. etc, etc, etc.....
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:41 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by colander View Post
Then what the hell do you call this?
[...]
An unattributed statement, for one thing. I'm not going fishing up-thread for the source, in case you were going to suggest such nonsense.


Originally Posted by colander View Post
His movies are precious, pretentious and utterly dull.
A lot of people disagree. I'll give you the same advice I give to Roman Catholics who complain about their church: Stop going.
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Old 5th February 2014, 02:37 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by colander View Post
Yes, fawning documentarians are truly the best, most impartial judges of a celebrity's character and internal motivations. It's just who they are!


Have you read the article? Because it is far from "fawning", and is presented with a measured and realistic appraisal of all the known facts, and presents the conclusions of the criminal investigation at the time. Mia Farrow could not have proceeded with a court case, as there was no evidence, and the investigation was wrapped up after four months with nothing to pursue.

Her son Moses has accused her of brain washing!

Could it be that everyone in this case is a victim, including Woody Allen? Or are you now going to insist that I'm a rapist because I don't see this article as "fawning"?

To me, they all may as well be unknown people, I don't care about his movies or her career. When I read Dylan's letter, I was ready to condemn Woody Allen. Now I know more of the facts and circumstances, I am confronted with my mob self, the beast on a righteous high calling for blood. It's an ugly thing to see in myself, and I want to step back and allow the possibility that emotion and complications of mind and family history may make this a case where all of us should shut up and allow that it's not as simple as heroes and villains, guilt and innocence, black and white.

As I said, maybe they are all victims, and nobody is a villain.
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Old 5th February 2014, 03:10 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by asydhouse View Post
Have you read the article? Because it is far from "fawning", and is presented with a measured and realistic appraisal of all the known facts, and presents the conclusions of the criminal investigation at the time. [snipped for brevity]

You're wasting your time with that one person. YMMV
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Old 5th February 2014, 03:47 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
Nope, I read the thread and didn't find anyone sentencing him to punishment for a crime. There is no lynch mob here, just people trying to come to conclusions based on the little information we have. I don't think it is unskeptical, wrong, or irrational when a person is told, "Hey, don't support this guy he molested me," that they try reach a conclusion and not maintain an "I can't know" agnosticism.

What's wrong with not knowing, if you can't know! Why must you force an answer… especially, why must you force a black or white answer?
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Old 5th February 2014, 04:00 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Morrigan View Post
My jab at the "good skepticism" isn't about those who want to examine the evidence, it's about those who start talking about irrelevant, barely tangential things such as Mia Farrow's unusual number of children or her past marriages or relationships.

Funny how you kept quiet about all the false allegations about Allen and his current wife (you know, that she was his adopted daughter etc) which are actually less relevant to Dylan's story than the influence of Mia Farrow on her children's thoughts about Woody Allen etc.
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Old 5th February 2014, 04:19 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
The letter asking us as movie fans/critics/etc. to not support a child molester. We have to reach a judgement when it comes to interacting with him and his work. It certainly isn't limited between two extremes, but this philosophic denial just doesn't hold water.
What child molseter?
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Old 5th February 2014, 05:08 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
What child molseter?
Roman Polanski, I assume. He's the only one mentioned on this thread who's been found guilty of it and indeed confessed to it.
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Old 5th February 2014, 05:39 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Dissolution View Post
Roman Polanski, I assume. He's the only one mentioned on this thread who's been found guilty of it and indeed confessed to it.
Could be Mia Farrow's brother as well.... He's doing 10 years for abusing little boys. He says he didn't do it, but I'm not about to start believing the word of a child molester.
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Old 5th February 2014, 08:54 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
That's the A+ SJW party line. All accusations of rape/molestation against white men are to automatically be believed. Even more so if they are wealthy.
Poor beleaguered rich white men.
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Old 5th February 2014, 09:38 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Poor beleaguered rich white men.
Let's all fight bigotry with more bigotry. That'll work.
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Old 5th February 2014, 09:45 AM   #264
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[Redundant comment]

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Old 5th February 2014, 09:50 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Poor beleaguered rich white men.
Do you really think that comment has value?

Are you trying to say that rich white men are never subject to injustice?

If not, what are you trying to say?
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Old 5th February 2014, 11:37 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
I call it evidence that was debunked when the investigation team came to the conclusion that no abuse had taken place and that the most likely source of the claims was Mia Farrow herself.
Do you mean the investigation team that didn't even interview Dylan? Yes, very convincing, that.

Quote:
ETA: Do you have an actual source for this because all I find is a blog where someone who knows little about the case wrote down a bunch of already debunked statements and claimed they were true. Like the claim that the investigation team was paid by Allen to find him not guilty.
It's from the 1994 Vanity Fair article that has already been linked to multiple times and that, unsurprisingly, most Woody Allen defenders in this thread apparently haven't bothered to read.

Last edited by colander; 5th February 2014 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 5th February 2014, 11:44 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by colander View Post
Do you mean the investigation team that didn't even interview Dylan? Yes, very convincing, that.



It's from the 1994 Vanity Fair article that has already been linked to multiple times and that, unsurprisingly, most Woody Allen defenders in this thread apparently haven't bothered to read.
By "Woody Allen defenders in this thread", I assume you mean those of us who haven't chosen a side because we don't have enough evidence?
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Old 5th February 2014, 11:53 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by colander View Post
most Woody Allen defenders in this thread
Is that really how you see it? I suppose if we're doing away with assumption of innocence then we have little use for the idea of the accused being entitled to a defence. After all, what kind of sick pervert defends a sick pervert?

As with so many other posters, I don't know what actually happened and I doubt anyone ever will. I don't see any need to 'defend' Allen and I haven't seen any 'Allen defenders'. I have seen a lot of attack - mostly on principles that I would defend with my life...or a strong letter to the Times of London, at least.
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Old 5th February 2014, 11:59 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
assumption of innocence
Just thought I'd pick this bit out. I think it's quite important and that each and every one of us would cherish this if we are ever falsely accused of a crime.
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:10 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
By "Woody Allen defenders in this thread", I assume you mean those of us who haven't chosen a side because we don't have enough evidence?
Well, who else?
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:31 PM   #271
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That this "assumption of innocence" apparently does not obtain for so many posters in the case of deciding whether Mia Farrow is some kind of malevolent hypnotic brainwash witch is, to me, quite instructive.
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:35 PM   #272
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Originally Posted by colander View Post
That this "assumption of innocence" apparently does not obtain for so many posters in the case of deciding whether Mia Farrow is some kind of malevolent hypnotic brainwash witch is, to me, quite instructive.
I'm undecided on either accusation, but I assume that you believe both, as both were made by their child and there's little or no evidence to support either.
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:37 PM   #273
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Originally Posted by Dissolution View Post
I'm undecided on either accusation, but I assume that you believe both, as both were made by their child and there's little or no evidence to support either.
You have fun with that.
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:38 PM   #274
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Thumbs up

Originally Posted by colander View Post
You have fun with that.
And you dodge the obvious conclusion to your dubious way of thinking.
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:39 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by colander View Post
That this "assumption of innocence" apparently does not obtain for so many posters in the case of deciding whether Mia Farrow is some kind of malevolent hypnotic brainwash witch is, to me, quite instructive.
Perhaps the important difference is that being a malevolent hypnotic brainwash witch is not against the law, and doesn't really have anything to do with a presumption of innocence.
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:39 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by colander View Post
That this "assumption of innocence" apparently does not obtain for so many posters in the case of deciding whether Mia Farrow is some kind of malevolent hypnotic brainwash witch is, to me, quite instructive.
You don't need to let them mess with your thinking, just be aware that neither Woody or Mia have been tried and convicted and therefore both are presumed to be innocent.

If any actual evidence turns up, then we can all start to have a grown up conversation about it. Until then we can just bicker about who our favourite is...
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:41 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Perhaps the important difference is that being a malevolent hypnotic brainwash witch is not against the law, and doesn't really have anything to do with a presumption of innocence.
In addition, it's less the sort of thing one gets pilloried in the press for and isn't, I don't think, as likely to ruin a career or a life as much as false accusations of child abuse. YMMV.
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:42 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by Dissolution View Post
And you dodge the obvious conclusion to your dubious way of thinking.
Explain to me how the fact that Mia Farrow tries to convince Moses that Woody Allen is a bad dude who molested her kid is somehow evidence that she doesn't believe he molested her kid?

Now if Moses alleged that Mia Farrow tried to brainwash him into thinking that he himself was molested, that would be a different thing.

Last edited by colander; 5th February 2014 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:44 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
In addition, it's less the sort of thing one gets pilloried in the press for and isn't, I don't think, as likely to ruin a career or a life as much as false accusations of child abuse. YMMV.
Except that I've seen about 8 billion articles about how Mia Farrow is a crazy drama-bitch who sucks and is probably lying, so I'm not sure why you'd come to that conclusion. And I sincerely doubt that there is any danger of Woody Allen having his career ended because of any of this.

Last edited by colander; 5th February 2014 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 5th February 2014, 12:45 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
By "Woody Allen defenders in this thread", I assume you mean those of us who haven't chosen a side because we don't have enough evidence?
,
Good reply. I've researched this fairly well, but it comes down to the fact that more information - facts - are needed to make a decision.

I trained for several months to work on a Crisis hotline for people who had been raped or molested. I spent hours on the phone hearing people tell me about being sexually abused. By their own mother or father, uncle, aunts, neighboors, family friends, strangers. I heard stories that were so horrific I allowed them in my nightmares as well as feeling I had been sucker-punched by another persons pain.

Did I believe every story? No. It opened my eyes learning certain people have a great need to feel - important - and are often needing sympathy though their rage was intact.

I'm not sure now what to think of the letter the now adult "victim" wrote. Many things I found curious, but for now I am assuming his innocense. I may be wrong. But I don't make a call until I have more evidence.
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