IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags dylan farrow , mia farrow , sexual misconduct charges , woody allen

Reply
Old 5th February 2014, 12:46 PM   #281
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 20,898
Originally Posted by colander View Post
Except that I've seen about 8 billion articles about how Mia Farrow is a crazy drama-bitch who sucks and is probably lying, so I'm not sure why you'd come to that conclusion.
Because, until the accusations of child abuse appeared I had heard nothing at all about Mia Farrow for decades.

Accusations of being an evil, manipulative witch while being a faded hollywood star don't sell as many papers as accusations of child abuse while being a successful but slightly odd A list hollywood writer, actor and director.
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 12:49 PM   #282
Dissolution
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,306
Originally Posted by colander View Post
Explain to me how the fact that Mia Farrow tries to convince Moses that Woody Allen molested her kid is somehow evidence that she doesn't believe he molested her kid?

Now if Moses alleged that Mia Farrow tried to brainwash him into thinking that he himself was molested, that would be a different thing.
That's not what Moses has accused his mother of though, is it? Nice strawman.
Dissolution is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 12:49 PM   #283
colander
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,780
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Accusations of being an evil, manipulative witch while being a faded hollywood star don't sell as many papers as accusations of child abuse while being a successful but slightly odd A list hollywood writer, actor and director.
Apparently news writers don't share this opinion of yours. You should write them a letter.
colander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 12:51 PM   #284
colander
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,780
Originally Posted by Dissolution View Post
That's not what Moses has accused his mother of though, is it? Nice strawman.
Then what is it?

Edit: Looked it up myself.

Quote:
My mother drummed it into me to hate my father for tearing apart the family and sexually molesting my sister," Moses told the magazine.
I said:
Quote:
Explain to me how the fact that Mia Farrow tries to convince Moses that Woody Allen molested her kid is somehow evidence that she doesn't believe he molested her kid?
Gosh, what an awful strawman I made!! Bad me!

Last edited by colander; 5th February 2014 at 12:58 PM.
colander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 12:54 PM   #285
TeapotCavalry
Master Poster
 
TeapotCavalry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Estonia
Posts: 2,116
Originally Posted by colander View Post
That this "assumption of innocence" apparently does not obtain for so many posters in the case of deciding whether Mia Farrow is some kind of malevolent hypnotic brainwash witch is, to me, quite instructive.
I think you might have the flow of the debate backwards.

accusers: Allen is a child molester. Look at the testimony of Dylan! It's heartbreaking an believable. Look at how he married his young step-daughter. Disgusting! There's your pattern of sick behavior. All the anecdotes and character assassination and, most of all, accusations - what more do you want?
the not-so-fast crowd: Well if that's your threshold of evidence, let's explore the possibility of Mia brainwashing and coaching family members, including Dylan, shall we? We got plenty of anecdotes and even expert opinions to go by.
accusers: nuh-uh! That's just irrelevant slander. We have to presume innocence.
the not-so-fast crowd:Exactly!
__________________
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” – Christopher Hitchens.
TeapotCavalry is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 12:54 PM   #286
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 20,898
Originally Posted by colander View Post
Apparently news writers don't share this opinion of yours.


Okay, let's play with this.


Worst case senario for both of them due to unfounded accusations?

For her?

For him?

Which do you think would be worse? Or do you think there'd be an equivalency?

Do you think that being accused of being a manipulative bitch is as bad as being accused as a child molestor? Which, if you had to be labelled (falsely) as one, would you pick?
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 12:56 PM   #287
Tsukasa Buddha
Other (please write in)
 
Tsukasa Buddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,302
Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Perhaps the important difference is that being a malevolent hypnotic brainwash witch is not against the law, and doesn't really have anything to do with a presumption of innocence.
The statute of limitations have passed, and we are not the government in the first place, so that and all the legal rules that follow have no use.
__________________
As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn
Tsukasa Buddha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 12:59 PM   #288
Dissolution
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,306
Originally Posted by colander View Post
Then what is it?
It's a strawman. I thought I already pointed that out?

Moses accused his mother of brainwashing, creating a hostile atmosphere towards Allen as an act of revenge and creating a false story in the mind of his sister.
In what world is that equivalent to an attempt to convince someone of something?
Dissolution is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 01:02 PM   #289
The Central Scrutinizer
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Central Scrutinizer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 53,060
Originally Posted by colander View Post
Except that I've seen about 8 billion articles about how Mia Farrow is a crazy drama-bitch who sucks...
The preponderance of the evidence does point in that direction. Still doesn't mean her kid wasn't molested. Doesn't mean they were, either.
__________________
If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer
The Central Scrutinizer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 01:03 PM   #290
colander
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,780
Nothing is going to happen to Woody Allen's career because of this. Dylan's statement is new, but the accusations themselves have been public for years; they're old news. They sure didn't stop him from being awarded these two lifetime film achievement awards or whatever he's in the news for now.
colander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 01:05 PM   #291
TheL8Elvis
Philosopher
 
TheL8Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,276
Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
The statute of limitations have passed, and we are not the government in the first place, so that and all the legal rules that follow have no use.
Yes, clearly things like innocent until proven guilty and evidence should stay in the legal arena, and have no place at all in a skeptics forum.
TheL8Elvis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 01:05 PM   #292
colander
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,780
Originally Posted by Dissolution View Post
It's a strawman. I thought I already pointed that out?

Moses accused his mother of brainwashing, creating a hostile atmosphere towards Allen as an act of revenge and creating a false story in the mind of his sister.
In what world is that equivalent to an attempt to convince someone of something?
Oh, please. The words "brainwash" and "convince" have the same denotative meaning. "Brainwash" has a negative connotation and "convince" does not.
colander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 01:06 PM   #293
Dissolution
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,306
Originally Posted by colander View Post
Oh, please. The words "brainwash" and "convince" have the same denotative meaning. "Brainwash" has a negative connotation and "convince" does not.
This is just plain wrong.
Dissolution is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 01:09 PM   #294
Tsukasa Buddha
Other (please write in)
 
Tsukasa Buddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,302
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
I disagree. Just because somebody says "you are either with me or against me", doesn't make it true. There isn't enough evidence to know who is telling the truth.
That's actually my point .

Quote:
Claiming that witholding judgment on everybody involved is the same as siding with Woody Allen is emotionally manipulative ********.
It is an emotionally manipulative situation.

Quote:
I'd also like to add that I don't think the 10% of claims being false statistic is well supported.
More than anything in this thread .

Quote:
Even if it's true, surely when the facts of what are claimed are denied by other people who were there, that number would go up? When one of the siblings doesn't believe it and says the mother was brainwashing them, the percentage goes up. When the investigators come to the conclusion that the childs story is unreliable, the percentage goes up. etc, etc, etc.....
If you want to go own the Bayesian rabbit hole, you need to independently quantify more than just the positive or negative value and define what your thresholds are.

And then I can disagree with them, because that is how Bayesian statistics work.
__________________
As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn
Tsukasa Buddha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 01:13 PM   #295
Tsukasa Buddha
Other (please write in)
 
Tsukasa Buddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,302
Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Yes, clearly things like innocent until proven guilty and evidence should stay in the legal arena, and have no place at all in a skeptics forum.
Do you want to write an actual response?
__________________
As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn
Tsukasa Buddha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 01:15 PM   #296
The Central Scrutinizer
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Central Scrutinizer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 53,060
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Because, until the accusations of child abuse appeared I had heard nothing at all about Mia Farrow for decades.

Accusations of being an evil, manipulative witch while being a faded hollywood star don't sell as many papers as accusations of child abuse while being a successful but slightly odd A list hollywood writer, actor and director.
It's odd that this all came back up just weeks before her son starts his new TV show. Why not 8 months ago? 3 years? Why not wait until next year? Again, odd.
__________________
If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer

Last edited by The Central Scrutinizer; 5th February 2014 at 01:17 PM.
The Central Scrutinizer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 01:18 PM   #297
Cleon
King of the Pod People
 
Cleon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 25,565
Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
It's off that this all came back up just weeks before her son starts his new TV show. Why not 8 months ago? 3 years? Why not wait until next year? Odd.
It came up during the Golden Globes, when Allen was receiving a lifetime achievement award.

So to answer your question: Because Woody Allen got his lifetime achievement award recently, not 8 months ago, not 3 years, and not next year.

Unless Allen's award was all part of Mia Farrow's cunning plan...
__________________
"People like me are what stand between us and Auschwitz." - Newt Gingrich
Cleon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 01:21 PM   #298
colander
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,780
Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
It came up during the Golden Globes, when Allen was receiving a lifetime achievement award.

So to answer your question: Because Woody Allen got his lifetime achievement award recently, not 8 months ago, not 3 years, and not next year.

Unless Allen's award was all part of Mia Farrow's cunning plan...
Gasp! Guys, this goes so much deeper than we thought!
colander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 01:29 PM   #299
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,317
Originally Posted by colander View Post
Do you mean the investigation team that didn't even interview Dylan? Yes, very convincing, that.
Are we really so sure of the details of the case? Who are we getting this from? Perhaps they behaved reasonably and did a decent investigation, perhaps they didn't? Are we relying on Mia Farrow's sides view on all this, or someone with no axe to grind?

If the Amanda Knox thread taught me nothing else, even these basic details can be contentious, wrong, have nuances to them that take a lot of digging to get to.
shuttlt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 01:34 PM   #300
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,317
Originally Posted by colander View Post
That this "assumption of innocence" apparently does not obtain for so many posters in the case of deciding whether Mia Farrow is some kind of malevolent hypnotic brainwash witch is, to me, quite instructive.
Could we have a show of hands? Anybody here believes Mia Farrow is a hateful witch? For the record I certainly won't be raising my hand since I don't know her, and really am not in any position of knowledge to pass any judgement on her except on some superficial second hand basis.
shuttlt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 01:43 PM   #301
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,317
Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
If you want to go own the Bayesian rabbit hole, you need to independently quantify more than just the positive or negative value and define what your thresholds are.

And then I can disagree with them, because that is how Bayesian statistics work.
On the Internet how Bayes works is that people who have already made up their minds pluck numbers out of their arses, plug them into a perfectly good formula, and pluck out a false sense of certainty.

Even if that 10% figure could be defended, which I dispute, using it for a case that clearly doesn't look like the average gives a false sense of support. The quantifiable aspects of the statistics here are unimportant and trivial compared to the aspects that no good statistics exist for and we are forced to rely on our intuition for. Why is a statistic that we have no reason to believe applies better than using no statistic at all?

:-)

Last edited by shuttlt; 5th February 2014 at 01:48 PM.
shuttlt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 01:47 PM   #302
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,317
Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
It's odd that this all came back up just weeks before her son starts his new TV show. Why not 8 months ago?.
It couldn't be 8 months ago... then it would overshadow the revelation that her son, who is about to start a new TV show, might be Frank Sinatras son. That only came out 5 months ago. :-)
shuttlt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 01:52 PM   #303
qayak
Penultimate Amazing
 
qayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,773
Originally Posted by colander View Post
Oh, please. The words "brainwash" and "convince" have the same denotative meaning. "Brainwash" has a negative connotation and "convince" does not.
One has to wonder why Moses Farrow, a trained family and marriage therapist, 15 years old and present at the time of the claimed abuse, catagorically denies that Woody and Dylan were even out of view, or that Woody ever abused Dylan.

He does say some interesting things about his childhood under Mia. Ironically, there are witnesses to his claims and Mia's own admission of the abuse the adopted children. I wonder what the Woody haters on the JREF will have to say now.
__________________
"How long you live, how high you fly
The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry
And all you touch, and all you see
Is all your life will ever be."
qayak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 02:00 PM   #304
jiggeryqua
Illuminator
 
jiggeryqua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,107
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
Could we have a show of hands? Anybody here believes Mia Farrow is a hateful witch? For the record I certainly won't be raising my hand since I don't know her, and really am not in any position of knowledge to pass any judgement on her except on some superficial second hand basis.
Having met some hateful witches, but no child molesters, I'm marginally more inclined to suppose that Mia is the former than that Woody is the latter. Hateful witchery is a common condition and there are several indicators or proximate causes in her situation.

Of course, hateful witchery doesn't get you arrested, ostracised or lynched, which may explain why I think I've met more of it. So many of the people I've met in my life might have been paedophiles who were just keeping quiet about it. I really must learn to be more suspicious and distrusting. Anyone could be guilty.

So yeah, I've not got my hand up, exactly - it's about waist height, wobbling back and forth to accompany the rhetorically quizzical eyebrows and the slight shrug.
__________________
"What follows is ever closely linked to what precedes; it is not a procession of isolated events, merely obeying the laws of sequence, but a rational continuity." - Marcus Aurelius Antoninus
jiggeryqua is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 02:04 PM   #305
The Central Scrutinizer
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Central Scrutinizer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 53,060
Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
It came up during the Golden Globes, when Allen was receiving a lifetime achievement award.

So to answer your question: Because Woody Allen got his lifetime achievement award recently, not 8 months ago, not 3 years, and not next year.

Unless Allen's award was all part of Mia Farrow's cunning plan...
He's received numerous awards over his lifetime, but seemingly he never received any of them a few months before Ronan Farrow was about to start a talk show.
__________________
If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer
The Central Scrutinizer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 02:05 PM   #306
The Central Scrutinizer
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Central Scrutinizer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 53,060
Originally Posted by qayak View Post
One has to wonder why Moses Farrow, a trained family and marriage therapist, 15 years old and present at the time of the claimed abuse, catagorically denies that Woody and Dylan were even out of view, or that Woody ever abused Dylan.

He does say some interesting things about his childhood under Mia. Ironically, there are witnesses to his claims and Mia's own admission of the abuse the adopted children. I wonder what the Woody haters on the JREF will have to say now.
Then there's the sad tale of Lark.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz...al-family.html
__________________
If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

Lupus is Lupus tor central scrutineezer
The Central Scrutinizer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 02:09 PM   #307
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,317
Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
Having met some hateful witches, but no child molesters, I'm marginally more inclined to suppose that Mia is the former than that Woody is the latter. Hateful witchery is a common condition and there are several indicators or proximate causes in her situation.
I've known two possibly three people who I think would be capable of lying and manipulating people in this way. I haven't known anybody I thought would sexually abuse children. As you say though, they might not have advertised it.

Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
So yeah, I've not got my hand up, exactly - it's about waist height, wobbling back and forth to accompany the rhetorically quizzical eyebrows and the slight shrug.
Indeed, kinda maybe, she could be, but shrug... who knows....

Last edited by shuttlt; 5th February 2014 at 02:12 PM.
shuttlt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 02:16 PM   #308
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 23,838
Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
Having met some hateful witches, but no child molesters ...
As far as you know.

It made me sad to type that, but just food for thought. The incidence of molestation is high enough that we all have probably met one or more.
carlitos is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 02:30 PM   #309
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,317
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
As far as you know.

It made me sad to type that, but just food for thought. The incidence of molestation is high enough that we all have probably met one or more.
That's essentially what jiggeryqua says in the seconds paragraph
shuttlt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 02:31 PM   #310
colander
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,780
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
Are we really so sure of the details of the case? Who are we getting this from? Perhaps they behaved reasonably and did a decent investigation, perhaps they didn't? Are we relying on Mia Farrow's sides view on all this, or someone with no axe to grind?
It was according to a court official who was charged with evaluating the quality of the investigation. That "Mia dun it" is apparently the first possibility that leaps to your mind is very interesting, though.

Quote:
If the Amanda Knox thread taught me nothing else, even these basic details can be contentious, wrong, have nuances to them that take a lot of digging to get to.
The thing is, it seems like most of you guys are going out of your way to dig and question only people on one side, and are actively ignoring information that you don't want to hear, like the fact that there are multiple witnesses that attest to Allen's behaving improperly towards Dylan, and that documentation of this improper behavior dates back to well before Mia's discovery of Allen's Soon Yi affair. I don't see how such an imbalanced examination of this issue can in any way count as neutral. But hey, presumption of innocence (men only tho).

Last edited by colander; 5th February 2014 at 02:38 PM.
colander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 02:34 PM   #311
jiggeryqua
Illuminator
 
jiggeryqua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,107
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
As far as you know.

It made me sad to type that, but just food for thought. The incidence of molestation is high enough that we all have probably met one or more.
That's essentially what I say in the second paragraph.

Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
That's essentially what jiggeryqua says in the second paragraph
See.
__________________
"What follows is ever closely linked to what precedes; it is not a procession of isolated events, merely obeying the laws of sequence, but a rational continuity." - Marcus Aurelius Antoninus
jiggeryqua is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 02:41 PM   #312
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,317
Originally Posted by colander View Post
It was according to a court official who was charged with evaluating the quality of the investigation. That "Mia dun it" is apparently the first possibility that leaps to your mind is very interesting, though.
It is by no means the the only possibility. I wouldn't have said it was the first possibility. That would probably be that things are as simple as described. Again, from the Knox thread, it's amazing the number of posts that could be dedicated to an issue as apparantly simple as this. Personally I haven't read any documents from the court, only the Vanity Fair article and one or two other second or third hand documents.

Originally Posted by colander View Post
The thing is, it seems like most of you guys are going out of your way to dig and question only people on one side, and are actively ignoring information that you don't want to hear. That's a far cry from taking a neutral stance.
What can we question about Woody? Is there some evidence you are holding out on that we could look at? Please share it! Right now I don't see there is enough to form an opinion based on.

I really don't get you. Do you think I am trying to build a case against Mia? I have no interest in Mia. I am not trying to build a case against anyone. You are the one who says I should think badly of someone and that I should do X, Y and Z because of it. It's for you to justify that. It's not for me to try to justify it for you. I'm not trying to convince you that Mia is a terrible person.
shuttlt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 02:45 PM   #313
colander
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,780
Originally Posted by shuttlt View Post
It is by no means the the only possibility. I wouldn't have said it was the first possibility. That would probably be that things are as simple as described. Again, from the Knox thread, it's amazing the number of posts that could be dedicated to an issue as apparantly simple as this. Personally I haven't read any documents from the court, only the Vanity Fair article and one or two other second or third hand documents.


What can we question about Woody? Is there some evidence you are holding out on that we could look at? Please share it! Right now I don't see there is enough to form an opinion based on.

I really don't get you. Do you think I am trying to build a case against Mia? I have no interest in Mia. I am not trying to build a case against anyone. You are the one who says I should think badly of someone and that I should do X, Y and Z because of it. It's for you to justify that. It's not for me to try to justify it for you. I'm not trying to convince you that Mia is a terrible person.
Then why do you keep posting lots of stuff about "hey, guys, I don't know, but what if Mia is a terrible person?" and zero stuff about terrible Allen antics? You don't do a very good job of pretending you're on the fence.

... Which is fine, because we're all biased and we all have axes to grind. But it looks kind of silly when you try to pretend that you don't.

Last edited by colander; 5th February 2014 at 02:47 PM.
colander is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 02:57 PM   #314
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,317
Originally Posted by colander View Post
Then why do you keep posting lots of stuff about "hey, guys, I don't know, but what if Mia is a terrible person?" and zero stuff about terrible Allen antics? You don't do a very good job of pretending you're on the fence.

... Which is fine, because we're all biased and we all have axes to grind. But it looks kind of silly when you try to pretend that you don't.
Seriously Colander, what you don't know about how to read other people is a lot. Half of what I have posted is a parody of the posts attacking Allen. Do you think I actually believe Mia lives in a shoe? Have you read my posts where I say I don't know anything about her and am not in a position to judge her? As much as anything what I'm trying to show is that, if one wants to and is sufficiently uncritical, one can find all sorts of mud to throw. If I was serious about it, I'd be far more careful and nuanced... but of course I'm not... I'd be a damn fool to believe things I read about a celebrity, that are flat denied by at least some of the people that were actually there, just because of.... what? All I'm doing is throwing mud to show that any idiot can do it.
shuttlt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 03:09 PM   #315
carlitos
"más divertido"
 
carlitos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 23,838
Originally Posted by jiggeryqua View Post
That's essentially what I say in the second paragraph.



See.
Derp. I read it twice and missed it. Must have been that British spelling with the ae that threw me off. Or I'm a moron.
carlitos is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 03:11 PM   #316
shuttlt
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,317
Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
Derp. I read it twice and missed it. Must have been that British spelling with the ae that threw me off. Or I'm a moron.
We are all friends here. :-)
shuttlt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 03:40 PM   #317
Tsukasa Buddha
Other (please write in)
 
Tsukasa Buddha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,302
Originally Posted by qayak View Post
One has to wonder why Moses Farrow, a trained family and marriage therapist, 15 years old and present at the time of the claimed abuse, catagorically denies that Woody and Dylan were even out of view, or that Woody ever abused Dylan.

He does say some interesting things about his childhood under Mia. Ironically, there are witnesses to his claims and Mia's own admission of the abuse the adopted children. I wonder what the Woody haters on the JREF will have to say now.
Frankly, I would rank it lowest in quality of evidence. He adds nothing, and is not even "he said she said" level.
__________________
As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn
Tsukasa Buddha is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 04:34 PM   #318
John Jones
Penultimate Amazing
 
John Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Iowa USA
Posts: 12,131
Originally Posted by colander View Post
Do you mean the investigation team that didn't even interview Dylan? Yes, very convincing, that.



It's from the 1994 Vanity Fair article that has already been linked to multiple times and that, unsurprisingly, most Woody Allen defenders in this thread apparently haven't bothered to read.
Need a little more tar for that brush?
__________________
"Sufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable from incompetence. = godless Dave
John Jones is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 04:39 PM   #319
John Jones
Penultimate Amazing
 
John Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Iowa USA
Posts: 12,131
Originally Posted by colander View Post
That this "assumption of innocence" apparently does not obtain for so many posters in the case of deciding whether Mia Farrow is some kind of malevolent hypnotic brainwash witch is, to me, quite instructive.

Huh? It resembles English, but it makes no objective sense.

How many posters what?
__________________
"Sufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable from incompetence. = godless Dave
John Jones is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th February 2014, 04:44 PM   #320
John Jones
Penultimate Amazing
 
John Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Iowa USA
Posts: 12,131
Originally Posted by colander View Post
Except that I've seen about 8 billion articles about how Mia Farrow is a crazy drama-bitch who sucks and is probably lying, so I'm not sure why you'd come to that conclusion. And I sincerely doubt that there is any danger of Woody Allen having his career ended because of any of this.

How many?

Don't fret about your credibility. It's just like a boomerang. If you throw it away, it will always come right back .
__________________
"Sufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable from incompetence. = godless Dave
John Jones is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:48 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.