IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 16th January 2018, 01:07 PM   #41
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,936
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
What's your thesis here, WP? What's the big deal with whether or not they looked emaciated?
My thesis? I think the parents are weirdos who kept their big family mostly sequestered in the house. Sometimes they would all go on trips to Disneyland and Law Vegas and other places and have family group photos taken. Somewhat recently some of the kids got shackled for unknown reasons and some may not have been fed properly or wouldn't eat properly.

A cop said a girl that called them looked slightly emaciated. We don't have doctors reports or new photos. They all look healthy in older photos including last year.

It seems like crazy religion is part of the mix. They've probably got too many children for their mental and financial capacities. It's a bad way to be and to treat your kids. The shackling of some is beyond understanding. Maybe we'll get more details as time goes on.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2018, 01:12 PM   #42
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,804
OK, so you are pretty much in agreement with the police and press line on this. Why the constant questioning of the appearance-of-being-emaciated thing?
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2018, 01:18 PM   #43
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 27,243
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
A cop said a girl that called them looked slightly emaciated. We don't have doctors reports or new photos. They all look healthy in older photos including last year.
Two years ago - although it seems clear they look abnormal when you consider that seven of them are supposed to be fully grown adults.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2018, 01:22 PM   #44
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 51,745
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Two years ago - although it seems clear they look abnormal when you consider that seven of them are supposed to be fully grown adults.
Yes, you have to look and say, who looks like a college graduate instead of high school freshman, and it becomes pretty damn obvious that something is wrong.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2018, 01:23 PM   #45
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 27,243
Originally Posted by bonzombiekitty View Post
I don't think I would think any of the people other than the married couple were over the age of 15.
That's actually somewhat disturbing knowing what we know now. According to the police, the 17-year-old girl who called them looked to be around 10 when they saw her.

This photograph was, I believe, taken two years ago? Meaning that one of the three shortest girls on the left in that photograph is 15 years old. That is not normal.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2018, 01:27 PM   #46
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,936
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Why the constant questioning of the appearance-of-being-emaciated thing?
They don't look emaciated in any of the photos. I think it happened recently but I don't know. Maybe in the past year they got a lot less food to eat.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2018, 01:33 PM   #47
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,804
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
They don't look emaciated in any of the photos. I think it happened recently but I don't know. Maybe in the past year they got a lot less food to eat.
And? Even if you're right (and the police assessment that the adults had the physique of children is wrong), does this make it any better? I still don't understand your focus on this small aspect of the case.
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2018, 01:37 PM   #48
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,936
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
And? Even if you're right (and the police assessment that the adults had the physique of children is wrong), does this make it any better? I still don't understand your focus on this small aspect of the case.
What would make you feel better right now? What should I say or do to make your day a better one?
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2018, 01:42 PM   #49
MikeG
Now. Do it now.
 
MikeG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 24,804
My day is fine, and my confusion as to your focus in this thread doesn't affect that at all.

I don't understand why you posted a number of times questioning the appearance of the family members, that's all. I see a police report that most of the humans in the photo are adults, and I see a photo which looks like it is all children. My first instinct isn't to question the report, but to question why parents would inflict this on their children. That this isn't your instinct doesn't spoil my day at all. I'm merely curious.
__________________
"The Conservatives want to keep wogs out and march boldly back to the 1950s when Britain still had an Empire and blacks, women, poofs and Irish knew their place." The Don That's what we've sunk to here.
MikeG is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2018, 01:44 PM   #50
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 51,745
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
They don't look emaciated in any of the photos. I think it happened recently but I don't know. Maybe in the past year they got a lot less food to eat.
So what? You do not have to be emaciated to be malnourished, and it certainly seems to have effected their development. You can be obese and malnourished, if you are not getting the right balance of nutrients. So why focus entirely on if they look emaciated in staged photos?
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2018, 01:51 PM   #51
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,936
Maybe it's partly genetics. Maybe this couple cranks out kids that look younger than their actual age. My parents did it with me. Nearly everyone guesses me to be 8-10 years younger than my age. When I tell them my age they say wait what?

I wasn't malnourished but I was always slim. Maybe these kids were malnourished through life but maybe not. Their hair looks fantastic and most seem happy and smiling.

Some articles say that all of them were shackled and some say some of them were. Maybe the real facts require a police and doctors report.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2018, 01:51 PM   #52
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 20,434
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I don't understand why you posted a number of times questioning the appearance of the family members, that's all. I see a police report that most of the humans in the photo are adults, and I see a photo which looks like it is all children. .
I would also say that I see a picture that was not taken at the time when the family was discovered, so what they looked like last year is completely irrelevant to the story. How long do they have to be without food to become emaciated?

They all claimed they were hungry when they were found. Are we going to quibble over whether you can tell that in the picture, too?
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2018, 02:00 PM   #53
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,936
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I would also say that I see a picture that was not taken at the time when the family was discovered, so what they looked like last year is completely irrelevant to the story. How long do they have to be without food to become emaciated?

They all claimed they were hungry when they were found. Are we going to quibble over whether you can tell that in the picture, too?
My theory is that they ran into serious food problems in the past year or so.

My theory is not that these are good parents or that these kids are in good shape. It's an abusive lifestyle that these nutso parents chose. Maybe they were raised by wackos as well.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2018, 08:22 PM   #54
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 26,326
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Two years ago - although it seems clear they look abnormal when you consider that seven of them are supposed to be fully grown adults.
It's not totally clear when the photos were taken. The story says they visited the Elvis impersonator in Las Vegas last in 2015. A photo taken in 2015 might have been posted to Facebook in 2016.

I'm sure that more information will come out within the next few days.

I doubt they had been keeping their kids shackled for decades. Maybe something changed fairly recently.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2018, 08:40 PM   #55
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NZ
Posts: 21,036
Heard on the news that the cops are saying the abuse/torture started four years ago
__________________
"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.

2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th January 2018, 10:05 PM   #56
mgidm86
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,969
I'm not sure what else there is to talk about. These people are nuts, it happens. Sure is a shocker.

I think it could be the clothes and hair styles in the photos that make them look younger. Especially the girls, they're dressed like dorks. Poor kids.

People who have that many kids gross me out, it makes me ill thinking about it. Like eww don't touch me you demented freaks! Lock these idiots up or shoot them, get the kids some help. Next!

__________________
I'm taking a leave of absence in case anyone notices.



Stop feeding the trolls PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!
mgidm86 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 03:27 AM   #57
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 37,572
My Grandmother was the youngest of fourteen children.
I have cousins and relations all over Teesside. I don't know and have never met most of them.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 03:45 AM   #58
fagin
Philosopher
 
fagin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: As far away from casebro as possible.
Posts: 7,070
I have the same on Wearside. I probably couldn't understand them anyway, they all talk Mackem.
__________________
There is no secret ingredient - Kung Fu Panda
fagin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 05:19 AM   #59
P.J. Denyer
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,514
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
My Grandmother was the youngest of fourteen children.
I have cousins and relations all over Teesside. I don't know and have never met most of them.
My mother was one of thirteen children (South Coast, Hampshire/West Sussex), she had three (and adopted a forth), there were big changes in society and women's ability to control their own biology during the last century that can't be ignored.
__________________
"I know my brain cannot tell me what to think." - Scorpion

"Nebulous means Nebulous" - Adam Hills
P.J. Denyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 05:38 AM   #60
Cl1mh4224rd
Philosopher
 
Cl1mh4224rd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,778
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
What's your thesis here, WP? What's the big deal with whether or not they looked emaciated?
Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
OK, so you are pretty much in agreement with the police and press line on this. Why the constant questioning of the appearance-of-being-emaciated thing?

William Parcher tends to "obsess" about certain details of a story in a way that makes it look like he's trying to crack open some conspiracy.

Last edited by Cl1mh4224rd; 17th January 2018 at 05:39 AM.
Cl1mh4224rd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 04:57 PM   #61
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,936
When the police arrived three of them were in chains (ages of these not reported). The 17 year old girl who called the police may or may not have escaped chains to do it - it's not yet confirmed either way.

There are 13 children with 7 of them being adults (18 yo or older). Of the adults, 5 are female.

Various neighbors observed the children behaving unusually but nothing to warrant calling the police.

A previous landlord at a previous house once went inside. The children slept in bunk beds, he said, but nothing about their behavior or the condition of the house seemed out of the ordinary. The children, he said, "were quiet, shy, well-behaved."

County adult and child protective service workers and medical professionals are assessing the siblings, Sheriff's Captain Fellows said. The parents, he said, showed "no indication of mental illness at this time" that could explain what they did to their children.

"It's hard to think of them as adults when you first see them because they're small and their malnutrition," medical center executive Uffer said. "They're very friendly. They're very cooperative, and I believe very hopeful that life will get better for them after this event."

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...117-story.html
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 05:17 PM   #62
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NZ
Posts: 21,036
I still have a nagging suspicion in my head with zero evidence that the younger kids won't all be the mothers kids, and the reason a lot of them all "look" around a similar range of years old is that the mothers might be the older daughters.

Probably made a complete hash of that paragraph

In short I suspect that the dad (Or older sons) might have been getting the older daughters pregnant as well as the mother
__________________
"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.

2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 05:21 PM   #63
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,466
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
My theory is that they ran into serious food problems in the past year or so.
For so many of them to have seemingly stunted growth, the malnutrition would have to have started earlier, unless you're right about them cranking out 5-foot-tall adults due to genetics. Which is probably possible; an entire family in Turkey walks on all fours! (I saw it on YouTube).

I don't know the actual heights, just that the adult children appear unusually short. A 17-year-old isn't going to look like a 10-year-old if the food problems were only in the past year or so.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 05:21 PM   #64
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,936
If the malnutrition is extreme it might cause infertility.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 05:27 PM   #65
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,466
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I still have a nagging suspicion in my head with zero evidence that the younger kids won't all be the mothers kids, and the reason a lot of them all "look" around a similar range of years old is that the mothers might be the older daughters.

Probably made a complete hash of that paragraph

In short I suspect that the dad (Or older sons) might have been getting the older daughters pregnant as well as the mother
A lot of times, though, pubescent girls will not start menstruating if they are seriously underweight. The offspring are spaced out enough in age for me to totally believe that this was all one couple's doing. Thirteen isn't really even all that many, compared to what was fairly common until about 100 years ago. I've known kids from families of 15+ children.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 05:32 PM   #66
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NZ
Posts: 21,036
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
A lot of times, though, pubescent girls will not start menstruating if they are seriously underweight. The offspring are spaced out enough in age for me to totally believe that this was all one couple's doing. Thirteen isn't really even all that many, compared to what was fairly common until about 100 years ago. I've known kids from families of 15+ children.
Good point

And tbh there seems to be not much questioning of the actual ages published, so they must have some sort of reliable source, so it is probably just me turning conspiracy nutter
__________________
"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.

2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 05:40 PM   #67
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,936
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
For so many of them to have seemingly stunted growth, the malnutrition would have to have started earlier,
If they are all growth-stunted due to malnutrition then it started at the very beginning with their first child which was 29 years ago. There was at least a period when the father earned $140,000 a year. That buys a hell of a lot of good food for a smaller family. But at some point he lost the job and they have declared bankruptcy twice. Some articles say that they are currently about $100,000 in debt. The financials are not confirmed.

Quote:
A 17-year-old isn't going to look like a 10-year-old if the food problems were only in the past year or so.
I'm not sure that a 17 yo would ever look like a 10 yo. What I mean is that the faces of those two ages are really different. Malnutrition will stunt growth - but will it stunt aging? When we guess or estimate people's ages we don't simply look at their size or height. We also look at their facial features and facial proportions. We may also look at their body "figure" irrespective of overall size.

I honestly don't know if malnutrition will halt the aging process so that a person will seriously look like a young child for greatly extended years.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 05:46 PM   #68
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,936
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
And tbh there seems to be not much questioning of the actual ages published, so they must have some sort of reliable source, so it is probably just me turning conspiracy nutter
All we really know is that there are 13 kids ranging in age from 2 to 29. Seven of them are 18 years or older and of those seven, five are female.

We don't know if there are any twins or even triplets.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 06:17 PM   #69
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,466
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
If they are all growth-stunted due to malnutrition then it started at the very beginning with their first child which was 29 years ago.
There are cases of parents abusing some siblings and not others.

Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
There was at least a period when the father earned $140,000 a year. That buys a hell of a lot of good food for a smaller family. But at some point he lost the job and they have declared bankruptcy twice. Some articles say that they are currently about $100,000 in debt. The financials are not confirmed.
Fair point but those trips to Vegas and Disneyland weren't free. And perhaps there was underfeeding that was not related to affordability.

Are there news stories out there telling us more yet?

Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I'm not sure that a 17 yo would ever look like a 10 yo. What I mean is that the faces of those two ages are really different. Malnutrition will stunt growth - but will it stunt aging? When we guess or estimate people's ages we don't simply look at their size or height. We also look at their facial features and facial proportions. We may also look at their body "figure" irrespective of overall size.

I honestly don't know if malnutrition will halt the aging process so that a person will seriously look like a young child for greatly extended years.
If puberty were delayed, I'm sure that could affect facial features. I've also noticed that with profound disability (I'm talking major head trauma, kids brain-damaged, diapered and in wheelchairs for life) teenagers sometimes look much younger.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 06:23 PM   #70
John Jones
Penultimate Amazing
 
John Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Iowa USA
Posts: 12,131
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I still have a nagging suspicion in my head with zero evidence that the younger kids won't all be the mothers kids, and the reason a lot of them all "look" around a similar range of years old is that the mothers might be the older daughters.

Probably made a complete hash of that paragraph

In short I suspect that the dad (Or older sons) might have been getting the older daughters pregnant as well as the mother

You suspect incest then? I'm not being deliberately obtuse, just making sure I get the picture, and avoiding the "Rule of So".
__________________
"Sufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable from incompetence. = godless Dave
John Jones is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 06:29 PM   #71
John Jones
Penultimate Amazing
 
John Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Iowa USA
Posts: 12,131
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
A lot of times, though, pubescent girls will not start menstruating if they are seriously underweight. The offspring are spaced out enough in age for me to totally believe that this was all one couple's doing. Thirteen isn't really even all that many, compared to what was fairly common until about 100 years ago. I've known kids from families of 15+ children.

I work with a woman who had 14 siblings that lived to adulthood. They were raised on fertile farmland in the mid-west USA. She's 72 and still working. You just don't see that much in urban or suburban areas.
__________________
"Sufficiently advanced malice is indistinguishable from incompetence. = godless Dave
John Jones is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 06:59 PM   #72
Jodie
Philosopher
 
Jodie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,224
None of the girls show evidence of breast development.Those types of dresses they are wearing wouldn't hide that so something is wrong. I guess we will eventually hear about it when the medical exams are done.
__________________
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse out of the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone, I cannot put my finger on it now. The child is grown, the dream is gone. I have become comfortably numb. " Pink Floyd
Jodie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 08:14 PM   #73
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,936
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
None of the girls show evidence of breast development.Those types of dresses they are wearing wouldn't hide that so something is wrong. I guess we will eventually hear about it when the medical exams are done.
I see boobies on one of them. Bra-filled boobies on her for sure.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 08:26 PM   #74
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 25,936
Originally Posted by Jodie View Post
I guess we will eventually hear about it when the medical exams are done.
Maybe not or maybe no details. These are victims and many are not even adults. The government isn't too keen on publicly releasing the physical details of young and living victims.

Reporter: Tell us all about the mammaries and menses of the young ladies.
Health Official: Shove it up your ass.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 09:57 PM   #75
Minoosh
Penultimate Amazing
 
Minoosh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 12,466
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Maybe not or maybe no details. These are victims and many are not even adults. The government isn't too keen on publicly releasing the physical details of young and living victims.

Reporter: Tell us all about the mammaries and menses of the young ladies.
Health Official: Shove it up your ass.
However in building a criminal case those questions will be asked and any indictment would reveal some details. Still more would come out in open court.

Reporters aren't all vultures. Many newspapers will self-censor to some extent as well. Even if it becomes public information that puberty was delayed, media outlets won't necessarily print all the details.

Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I see boobies on one of them. Bra-filled boobies on her for sure.
Boobies are mostly fat. Very malnourished girls/young women generally aren't going to have large breasts. Maybe the parents wanted to delay development. But that would be counter to the quiver full argument. All those kids and no grandkids? Counter to the mandate to be fruitful & multiply.

Last edited by Minoosh; 17th January 2018 at 10:03 PM.
Minoosh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 10:07 PM   #76
cullennz
Embarrasingly illiterate
 
cullennz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NZ
Posts: 21,036
Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
You suspect incest then? I'm not being deliberately obtuse, just making sure I get the picture, and avoiding the "Rule of So".
Yeah

But as I say.

Just a feeling. No evidence yet

Edit: Suspicion. Not feeling
__________________
"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.

2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044

Last edited by cullennz; 17th January 2018 at 10:10 PM.
cullennz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th January 2018, 11:20 PM   #77
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 27,243
Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Maybe the parents wanted to delay development. But that would be counter to the quiver full argument. All those kids and no grandkids? Counter to the mandate to be fruitful & multiply.
I don't see why it would necessarily have to be. The father is the master of the house; marrying off daughters to persons of his choice or keeping them around to raise the younger children, either way, it's his prerogative.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th January 2018, 05:28 AM   #78
Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 10,099
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
You could show these photos to many people who are unfamiliar with the story. Ask "this is a family, do you see anything unusual here?"
Yeah, the kids are all wearing identical clothes, with variance only for gender. That's *********** creepy when it's twins, let alone a brood this size.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 18th January 2018 at 05:36 AM.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th January 2018, 05:38 AM   #79
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 51,745
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I don't see why it would necessarily have to be. The father is the master of the house; marrying off daughters to persons of his choice or keeping them around to raise the younger children, either way, it's his prerogative.
Also helps to have cart blanch with regards to schooling and no need for inspection or seeing doctors. Really helps you keep the kids locked in the basement.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/17/us/cal...ing/index.html

"Riverside County Sheriff's Capt. Greg Fellows, who likened the siblings' treatment to torture, said their mother was "perplexed as to why" authorities came to her home.
The California Department of Education does not have the authority to monitor or inspect private schools, according to a statement from spokesman Scott Roark."
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th January 2018, 06:24 AM   #80
Craig4
Penultimate Amazing
 
Craig4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: I live in a swamp
Posts: 24,408
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
My thesis? I think the parents are weirdos who kept their big family mostly sequestered in the house. Sometimes they would all go on trips to Disneyland and Law Vegas and other places and have family group photos taken. Somewhat recently some of the kids got shackled for unknown reasons and some may not have been fed properly or wouldn't eat properly.

A cop said a girl that called them looked slightly emaciated. We don't have doctors reports or new photos. They all look healthy in older photos including last year.

It seems like crazy religion is part of the mix. They've probably got too many children for their mental and financial capacities. It's a bad way to be and to treat your kids. The shackling of some is beyond understanding. Maybe we'll get more details as time goes on.
Would not a "slightly emaciated" 10 year old be a really emaciated 17 year old?
Craig4 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:34 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.