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Old 26th August 2021, 12:54 PM   #161
cullennz
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The other tiny thing as I think is a bit rare, is what happens to those who for medical reasons can't have the vaccine.

Are they just not allowed to work again?
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Old 26th August 2021, 12:59 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I have to disagree. No employer or Government should be able to demand that you undergo a medical procedure that you don't want to, and nor should you be able to be fired for not doing so. The potential for abuse is too much. What happens when Employers decide to demand women abort their pregnancies or lose their jobs? Now yes, that is an extreme case and reductio ad absurdum, but without the legal protections, it could also be plausible.

Having said that I am for vaccines, I got mine pretty much as soon as Group 2 was eligible to get them. I'm one of those "young" people that were "jumping the queue". I also recommend that everyone that can get one does so because it's the best way to get rid of the SAR-CoV-2 virus permanently.

However, hard cases make for bad laws and changing our laws to remove people's protection against employers and Governments forcing medical procedures onto people, that's a bad law regardless of the good intentions. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Unlike pregnancy, an unvaccinated idiot infecting the office with Covid 19 can take out the entire office.
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Old 26th August 2021, 01:25 PM   #163
crescent
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The other tiny thing as I think is a bit rare, is what happens to those who for medical reasons can't have the vaccine.

Are they just not allowed to work again?
What happens to those people already?

The wheel is not being reinvented. The covid vaccine will be added to the list of other required vaccines, like measles.

My impression is that such people still have jobs and work and such, although some may be required to take extra precautions, like wearing masks, when other coworkers may not be required to adhere to such requirements. Why would covid be any different?

The other issue is that people are now making up excuses to have medical issues preventing vaccination. A Doctor in Florida is being prosecuted for selling medical vaccine(fixed) mask exemptions to anyone willing to pay him $50. I expect other people will try to do similar things for vaccine requirements, there is already a thriving black market in counterfeit vaccine record cards

Last edited by crescent; 26th August 2021 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 26th August 2021, 01:54 PM   #164
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So far, 4 of my extended family have contracted Covid in congregate care settings - the medical staff in those places seem to be prone to anti-vax propaganda.

It's interesting to see who's refusing vaccination wholesale though - police seem to be a large number, and also refuse to wear masks, and it looks like fire dept members are following suit. In our state, the governor has mandated vaccination for those groups, and today there was an article in the Seattle Times about the Vashon Fire chief, who publicly announced he wouldn't be vaccinated even if it cost him his job. This is a position that requires EMT training and constant contact with the public.

Interestingly, after all the years Vashon has been held up as the national poster child for antivaxxers, they have an 84% fully vaxxed rate, and another 7% have had one shot. That leaves the fire chief in pretty thin company.

Seems to me that the only people panicking are the refusers.
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Old 26th August 2021, 02:42 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Nosi View Post
Unlike pregnancy, an unvaccinated idiot infecting the office with Covid 19 can take out the entire office.
Well, they do say never get between a pregnant lady and a toilet, but the point wasn't that it was dangerous, it was that it's not in a business's interests to have pregnant employees, especially with 12 months of parental leave of while 6-months is paid. It would be financially beneficial to force employees to terminate if the employer could dictate health decisions.

On the other side of this coin, we see US Employers having control over employees' ability to have birth control through the Health Insurance that they provide. This is just as outrageous. Employers should not be able to demand employees undertake medical procedures, or prevent them from doing so, period, regardless of what those are.

Now, as I noted elsewhere, when it comes to vaccinations, these can be a health and safety issue, and employees can be moved out of high-risk positions, and even terminated if there are no places to put them into that are not high risk. They can be forced to undertake the use of PPE and other precautions that vaccinated colleagues don't. Employers can also not renew contracts and only hire those that are vaccinated. All these things certainly give incentives to get vaccinated, but an Employer should bever be able to force an employee to get a vaccine if they don't want it.
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Old 26th August 2021, 03:17 PM   #166
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So crickets to this post, cullennz?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...7#post13581357
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Old 26th August 2021, 03:19 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
0, and I don't see panicked responses.
Go to a supermarket.

All types of meat, flour, all types of pre-packaged food, bread, and even things like muesli, are in very short supply, and the sole reason is panic buying.

I think there were more bare shelves than not at the supermarket, and that was at the start of the day. By late afternoon, there will be nothing worth buying.

Idiotic.

We live in a country where we have a billion sheep and you can't buy lamb.

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The same way we have gotten rid of Smallpox, and are near to ridding the planet of the likes of measles, polio, rubella, and mumps.
You are dreaming, and expert opinion agrees with me on this - we will not eradicate Covid and it will become an endemic disease.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n494

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/fe...comes-endemic/

And if you think measles is nearly eradicated, maybe go talk to parents of the 60 kids who died in Samoa just two years ago.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Totally agree, but it is one of those things I switch to a bit of a lefty over

You signed up for for what you signed up for and unless the govt make the vaccine compulsary then while annoying, you just have to work around weirdo ani=vaxxers.

Tell them their role now includes cleaning the cars in the car park all day etc. Just have to sork with job role and annoy the crap out of them till they do it.
You're forgetting one important point - H&S legislation.

There's the opportunity for employers to insist on vaccines to protect other staff, and H&S trumps the Employment Relations Act.
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Old 26th August 2021, 03:24 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So crickets to this post, cullennz?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...7#post13581357
Well yes, because has been pointed out already they need to try to re-position them out of need for it.
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Old 26th August 2021, 03:27 PM   #169
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Quote:
You're forgetting one important point - H&S legislation.

There's the opportunity for employers to insist on vaccines to protect other staff, and H&S trumps the Employment Relations Act.

Fair point, but they better prove they can't adjust to suit if an employee wants to sue for unlawful dismissal
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"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.

2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
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Old 26th August 2021, 03:29 PM   #170
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Sorry. claim
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"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.

2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
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Old 26th August 2021, 04:54 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
How many kids are in ICUs? If there are 1900 kids in USA with Covid, I'm picking the number is going to be very, very small.
Where are you getting this 1900 figure from?

According to this published just a few days ago: https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-no...l-data-report/

Quote:
As of August 19, over 4.59 million children have tested positive for COVID-19 since the onset of the pandemic. Over 180,000 cases were added the past week, reaching levels of the previous winter surge of 2020-21. After declining in early summer, child cases have increased exponentially, with over a four-fold increase the past month, rising from about 38,000 cases the week ending July 22nd to 180,000 the past week.
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Old 26th August 2021, 04:58 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Well yes, because has been pointed out already they need to try to re-position them out of need for it.
They lost the bloody court case, the law you cited was a fail.

So what is this crap? The employers are trying to compromise ergo what?

The court case about human rights you've been spouting for 3 pages now has been overruled by the NZ courts.

It so happens my knowledge of public health and common sense was correct.
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Old 26th August 2021, 05:02 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The other tiny thing as I think is a bit rare, is what happens to those who for medical reasons can't have the vaccine.

Are they just not allowed to work again?
Oh Jesus!
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Old 26th August 2021, 05:02 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Fair point, but they better prove they can't adjust to suit if an employee wants to sue for unlawful dismissal
THEY JUST LOST IN A NZ COURT. How does a worker have a case for unlawful dismissal?

BTW, read the ruling: not every employee can be accommodated.
Quote:
We note that some people may not be able to work in some positions because they do not wish to be vaccinated. Some people may even have had to leave a job due to this. We appreciate that this could be a difficult experience, and we encourage employers and employees to approach such a situation in an open and reasonable way. However, we are told that there are some situations in which it is accepted that limitations on people’s freedoms are required. We consider that, given the risks to the health and safety of the wider population during the COVID-19 pandemic, such limitations may be appropriate.
Dodging the facts in this case doesn't support your position about worker's rights.
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Old 26th August 2021, 05:06 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
That varies wildly by location.

The hospital profiled by the NYTimes in their interviews in the Ozarks, Arkansas had a hospital with only about 50% vax rate among staff. There is no shortage of anti-vax and other conspiracy cranks in the US medical system.
Indeed. Some of them get invited to talks at the Senate.

Hell, some of them are even elected members of the Senate.
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Old 26th August 2021, 05:07 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
Where are you getting this 1900 figure from?

According to this published just a few days ago: https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-no...l-data-report/
Somewhere upthread it was in a cite about the number of kids hospitalized with COVID.

CNBC: The number of children hospitalized with Covid-19 in the United States hit a record high of just over 1,900 on Saturday.

That was 2 weeks ago and the number is no doubt higher now.
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Old 26th August 2021, 05:53 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Well, they do say never get between a pregnant lady and a toilet, but the point wasn't that it was dangerous, it was that it's not in a business's interests to have pregnant employees, especially with 12 months of parental leave of while 6-months is paid. It would be financially beneficial to force employees to terminate if the employer could dictate health decisions.

On the other side of this coin, we see US Employers having control over employees' ability to have birth control through the Health Insurance that they provide. This is just as outrageous. Employers should not be able to demand employees undertake medical procedures, or prevent them from doing so, period, regardless of what those are.

Now, as I noted elsewhere, when it comes to vaccinations, these can be a health and safety issue, and employees can be moved out of high-risk positions, and even terminated if there are no places to put them into that are not high risk. They can be forced to undertake the use of PPE and other precautions that vaccinated colleagues don't. Employers can also not renew contracts and only hire those that are vaccinated. All these things certainly give incentives to get vaccinated, but an Employer should bever be able to force an employee to get a vaccine if they don't want it.
This

While forcing a person to reveal their vaccination status is a violation of that person's right to medical confidentiality, the employer can get around that by asking an applicant it they are vaccinated or not (asking is not a violation). The applicant has the right to decline to answer, and if they do decline, the employer has the right to draw a line through their name. Unlike being black or brown, or LGBTQ+, being "unvaccinated" is not a protected group.
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Old 26th August 2021, 05:58 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Go to a supermarket.

All types of meat, flour, all types of pre-packaged food, bread, and even things like muesli, are in very short supply, and the sole reason is panic buying.

I think there were more bare shelves than not at the supermarket, and that was at the start of the day. By late afternoon, there will be nothing worth buying.

Idiotic.

We live in a country where we have a billion sheep and you can't buy lamb.
First off, it depends where you are, the only thing I couldn't get when I went shopping yesterday was the exact frozen pizza and specific bread I wanted, and that happens even outside of level 4 lockdown. I ended up getting a different pizza and while I could have gotten a very similar bread or any of the other types, I decided that I need to cut down on my bread consumption anyway.

My issue with buying lamb is the price, not the availability.

Now yes, some idiots are going stupid and bulk buying, just as they did last time, and the time before that. Idiots are going to Idiot, but that's not a sign that everyone is panicking, it's just a sign that we have idiots here too, which we have known for a long time.

Quote:
You are dreaming, and expert opinion agrees with me on this - we will not eradicate Covid and it will become an endemic disease.
You are mixing up whether something can be done with will it be done.

It is entirely possible to eradicate the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but to do it would take political will and population acceptance of the measures that simply don't exist at this point in time, entirely for political reasons.

That's the thing. Covid will become endemic, not because we can't do anything to stop it, but because our politicians won't do what is required to prevent it and because their actions have convinced a massive portion of the population not only to not do it, but to be extremely hostile towards any measure and vocally anti-doing taking those measures.

Because they see it as politically expedient, and bad for their opponents, those that could have led us out of the pandemic have thrown their hands in the air and surrendered to the virus. Again I am going to point out, you live in a country that had proven this, and next to another country that has proven it. In fact, there are numerous countries in the world that successfully vanquished the virus only to get reinfected because other countries refused to follow suit and respread not just the original, but new variants that their inactions allowed to mutate.

Quote:
And if you think measles is nearly eradicated, maybe go talk to parents of the 60 kids who died in Samoa just two years ago.
The fact that you need to pull out a few dozen deaths in a 3rd world pacific island nation should tell you something.

in 2019 there were 140,000 deaths from measles. In 1980 that number was 2.6 million.

Today the majority of cases left are in poor Asian and African nations where vaccination rates are low. Outbreaks in western countries are rare and when they do occur, they do so primarily in Anti-Vaxxer communities.

A number of countries including the UK, US, and Brazil were declared measles-free in 2016. However Anti-Vaxxer activity has seen a number of them lose it again because of outbreaks among unvaccinated kids.

Yes we still need to do more work to eliminate, but if people would do the right thing and get their kids vaccinated, we could win it, and we could defeat and eliminate Covid as well, especially if those in charge stopped leading the idiot anti-vaccine charge.

If you really want me to I can explain to you in small words exactly how to rid the planet of SAR-CoV-2 over the course of 6 months, but I also know that because of politics and idiot politicians and "my rights" morons, it's never going to happen.
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Old 26th August 2021, 06:03 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
THEY JUST LOST IN A NZ COURT. How does a worker have a case for unlawful dismissal?

BTW, read the ruling: not every employee can be accommodated.


Dodging the facts in this case doesn't support your position about worker's rights.
Has any one ever mentioned you come across as an angry dude bro'

Tone it down mate, easier on the heart and that.
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Old 26th August 2021, 06:09 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Has any one ever mentioned you come across as an angry dude bro'

Tone it down mate, easier on the heart and that.
You do realize that Ginger is neither a Dude nor a Bro? right?
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Old 26th August 2021, 06:13 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You do realize that Ginger is neither a Dude nor a Bro? right?
Lol

Apologies for that. Well the bro'

It would help if they read their own links
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"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.

2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
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Old 26th August 2021, 06:25 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You do realize that Ginger is neither a Dude nor a Bro? right?
Indeed, and some people can't tell the difference between someone who is "angry" and someone who is "pissed off at having to repeatedly explain grade-school concepts to adults that wilfully refuse to understand"
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Old 26th August 2021, 06:27 PM   #183
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Think it was basically Atheist who actually hit on a real thing.

Health and safety for others due to you not being vaccinated, beats employment contract.

Still thing a few could be paid cash over it though.
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"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.

2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
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Old 26th August 2021, 06:29 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Indeed, and some people can't tell the difference between someone who is "angry" and someone who is "pissed off at having to repeatedly explain grade-school concepts to adults that wilfully refuse to understand"
I understand fine.

I read the links
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"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.

2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
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Old 26th August 2021, 06:34 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Think it was basically Atheist who actually hit on a real thing.

Health and safety for others due to you not being vaccinated, beats employment contract.

Still thing a few could be paid cash over it though.
Who am I? Chopped liver?

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Now that he has clarified himself, CullenNZ is correct that in New Zealand such a mandate is a kettle of fish due to the Contracts Laws and NZ Bill of Rights, however, I also think that an Employer could get around those using Health and Safety Laws should a worker be in a position where they could potentially infect others if not vaccinated. They certainly could make them have to wear PPE such as a gown, mask, and face shield everywhere on-site and generally make their lives a little bit miserable until they decide that it's better to go and get the shots.
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Now, as I noted elsewhere, when it comes to vaccinations, these can be a health and safety issue, and employees can be moved out of high-risk positions, and even terminated if there are no places to put them into that are not high risk. They can be forced to undertake the use of PPE and other precautions that vaccinated colleagues don't. Employers can also not renew contracts and only hire those that are vaccinated. All these things certainly give incentives to get vaccinated, but an Employer should bever be able to force an employee to get a vaccine if they don't want it.
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Old 26th August 2021, 06:37 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by deadrose View Post
People are also dying of non-Covid causes because the hospitals are jammed full of Covid patients. Very bad time to get in an accident, or have a stroke or heart attack.
A family member (89) is likely going to die this week or next, but not of covid. She will die because the healthcare system is overstressed and she didn't get the care she needed as quickly as she normally would. She will be one of those nebulous "excess deaths" that are so easy to shrug off.

ETA: I did not realize how late I was to this thread. **** moves quick.
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Old 26th August 2021, 06:40 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Who am I? Chopped liver?
To be honest mate, kid of stopped looking at your post apart from the links which don't prove your point after you got all angry.

If I was into forums with people uber capitilising sentences and highlighting things I would create a "Letsallyellateachother.com" one
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"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.

2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
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Old 26th August 2021, 06:49 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
To be honest mate, kid of stopped looking at your post apart from the links which don't prove your point after you got all angry.

If I was into forums with people uber capitilising sentences and highlighting things I would create a "Letsallyellateachother.com" one
well for the record, a) I never get angry on these forums, half the time my posts are sarcastic or attempt at humour, getting angry is pointless. If you get one of those posts then either I'm getting frustrated with you or you did something silly and it was fun pointing it out. b) highlighting a quote isn't a form of anger, it's just a way of making sure that people know which part of the quote is important to my response if I am quoting a larger section to keep the particular passage in context, and c) I don't believe I have used all caps on this forum ever, unless my capslock actually was on and I posted without realising. And if that was the case, I'd usually edit it pretty quick. I tend to use italics to emphasize my posts.
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Old 26th August 2021, 06:52 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
well for the record, a) I never get angry on these forums, half the time my posts are sarcastic or attempt at humour, getting angry is pointless. If you get one of those posts then either I'm getting frustrated with you or you did something silly and it was fun pointing it out. b) highlighting a quote isn't a form of anger, it's just a way of making sure that people know which part of the quote is important to my response if I am quoting a larger section to keep the particular passage in context, and c) I don't believe I have used all caps on this forum ever, unless my capslock actually was on and I posted without realising. And if that was the case, I'd usually edit it pretty quick. I tend to use italics to emphasize my posts.
Fair call, and apologise. You did point out H and S first
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"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.

2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
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Old 26th August 2021, 06:56 PM   #190
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It is actually probably the first time our draconian health and safety laws may be more usefull than just a pain in the **** lol
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"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.

2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
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Old 26th August 2021, 06:57 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Fair call, and apologise. You did point out H and S first
Accepted and Exactly.

I'll see If I can remember my smilies in the future, cause some people seem to take me overly serious when I do the short one-sentence posts.
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Old 26th August 2021, 06:59 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
It is actually probably the first time our draconian health and safety laws may be more usefull than just a pain in the **** lol
To be honest, having previously worked for Shell NZ and Dow AgroSciences, I tend to be a bit of a H&S nut, mostly because I have seen the results of what can go wrong when people ignore those "draconian" H&S rules.
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Old 26th August 2021, 07:02 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
To be honest, having previously worked for Shell NZ and Dow AgroSciences, I tend to be a bit of a H&S nut, mostly because I have seen the results of what can go wrong when people ignore those "draconian" H&S rules.
Yeah get them in those sort of dangerous environments, but far out they can be annoying in others.

Any way

That is another topic we could do a very long thread on feturing all countries issues.

Sorry for the side mention
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"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.

2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
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Old 26th August 2021, 07:11 PM   #194
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post

While forcing a person to reveal their vaccination status is a violation of that person's right to medical confidentiality, ....
For the record, in the US anyway, that is not true. I can't speak for NZ of course but once again I say, show me the law and let's look at it. There are a lot of assumptions people make about these things that may not be true.

Re the US: First, HIPAA and all that related medical confidentiality only applies in the healthcare fields. Second, there are some laws about special confidentiality when it comes to drug addiction, mental illness, and certain STDs but even those aren't directly employer related.

Employers are not allowed to ask you about disabilities if you are applying for a job, but once they offer you a job they can ask things to ascertain if you can actually do the job they just hired you for. A lot of those specifics are in the ADA.

I don't think there are any laws against asking students or employees about their vaccine status. Heck, it's part of the college admission forms and in health care in the hospital at least, one of the first days of orientation is a visit to the employee health to assess and give you vaccines you lack or order blood tests.

Last edited by Skeptic Ginger; 26th August 2021 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 26th August 2021, 07:18 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Has any one ever mentioned you come across as an angry dude bro'

Tone it down mate, easier on the heart and that.
Come on, I come across as challenging your assertions and it makes you unhappy to have to deal with it.

You made all these ******* assertions, insisted I didn't know anything about human rights or whatever, and now you don't want to admit you were wrong.

It happens, easier on your heart and all that to just admit it and get over it.
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Old 26th August 2021, 07:20 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Lol

Apologies for that. Well the bro'

It would help if they read their own links
Me? I didn't read my own links?

Well why don't you point out which of my sources I didn't read. Curious minds want to know.
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Old 26th August 2021, 07:35 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by ZiprHead View Post
Where are you getting this 1900 figure from?
Bad proof read - it should have been "1900 kids in hospital in USA".

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
First off, it depends where you are...
Auckland, and it's not just me saying it, it's well known and has been extensively reported. I have no idea where you live - maybe a cave?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/126...ain-disruption

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/...meat-shortages

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
You are mixing up whether something can be done with will it be done.
Hmmm, let me see...

Shall I take the word of internationally respected scientists or some bloke on the internet?

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
It is entirely possible to eradicate the SARS-CoV-2 virus...


Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Today the majority of cases left are in poor Asian and African nations where vaccination rates are low. Outbreaks in western countries are rare and when they do occur, they do so primarily in Anti-Vaxxer communities.
Now I know you live in a cave, because NZ had a measles epidemic only two years ago.

Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
... if people would do the right thing...
And if wishes were pigs, bacon would be free.

You're confusing your little fantasy world with reality, and I'm only interested in reality, not some Utopian bollocks that's never going to happen.
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Old 26th August 2021, 07:36 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Me? I didn't read my own links?

Well why don't you point out which of my sources I didn't read. Curious minds want to know.
I am still trying to work out what point you were trying to make from them.
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"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.

2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
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Old 26th August 2021, 07:39 PM   #199
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Dude had petition denied because govt isn't planning making it mandatory?

I mean how the f is that relevant
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"I mean, you've got the first sort of mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that's a story-book, man," Biden said.

2007 https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna16911044
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Old 26th August 2021, 07:47 PM   #200
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At this point SARS-Cov-2 is going to be endemic. The only state able to control the original breakout that had large land borders was China and they did so with measures not doable in most any other country. And in doing so they had over a year where things were pretty normal with minimal lockdowns and other measures that ebbed and flowed in most of the West. But that was with the original variant. Had the rest of the World acted in the same manner as China it's within the realm of the possible that Covid-19 could have been eliminated.

But that was then and now is now. The high growth in infections elsewhere spawned new variants that are more contagious and spread faster. And vaccine escape, at least in terms of infection, is a real issue. But at least vaccines are greatly effective at preventing death/serious disease.

So with vaccines making the disease far less serious there just isn't any way the majority of countries will and likely could ever do what's required to eliminate Covid-19.

It will become endemic and we will learn to live with it.

Here's a paper that describes possible transitions from epidemic to endemic.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/7/33/eabf9040

Quote:
With respect to COVID-19, we identify a plausible transition in the age structure of risks once the disease reaches seasonal endemism across a range of immunity durations and relative severity of primary versus subsequent reinfections.
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