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Old 20th September 2021, 12:23 AM   #41
Travis
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So, do we think he is still alive or chilling in a non extradition nation?
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Old 20th September 2021, 12:37 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
So, do we think he is still alive or chilling in a non extradition nation?
Difficult to say. He could have fled to another country. But there are unverified reports that he did not have a passport. I think it is unlikely.

The stories from his family about his disappearance are fishy. They wouldn't let law enforcement see him. They say he went hiking in a park. After a few days they went to that park and got his car and drove it back to their house. The next day they reported him missing.

Considering their refusal to cooperate, he could be in hiding somewhere. It may be possible he staged the disappearance without his families knowledge. Or he may have actually wandered off into the wilderness. If he did that, at this point I think he killed himself or at least he is probably not alive.
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Old 20th September 2021, 12:46 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
I think he didn't want to kill her. When he did, he thought about how he could get away with it by deception. Despite all the options, he didn't come up with a good plan. He got confused about his plans. He did different things. That is why they don't really make sense.

He eventually decided that he didn't want to go down the deception path. Too difficult. He panicked and just decided to flee. Get back home. Don't talk. Try to make it all go away.

When that didn't happen...flee. Just run away. Keep running away.
This sounds plausible. I don't assume he meant to do anything bad, but something bad happened, and he fled. He needs to come forward and seek resolution, but we'll see what happens. What a tragedy, though.
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Old 20th September 2021, 05:49 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
So, do we think he is still alive or chilling in a non extradition nation?
Rather difficult unless he crossed a land border into Mexico or Canada first, I assume his passport would be tagged.
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Old 20th September 2021, 07:42 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
So, do we think he is still alive or chilling in a non extradition nation?
Best guess?

His family is hiding him.

Second best guess?

He's already dead.

Third best guess?

The misc "random" category of various possible but highly not likely scenarios ranging from a third party to other out there narratives.
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Old 20th September 2021, 07:59 AM   #46
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Kid shoulda lawyered up. Let the lawyer tell the cops whatever lawyers tell the cops in this situation. Let the lawyer tell the press he's cooperating fully with the investigation. Then just hunker down and ride out the media frenzy while due process runs its course.

(Obviously what he should have done is lawyer up and then go to the police and give a complete account of his actions and movements for the entire period in question. Up to and including a full confession, if applicable.)

Going into hiding without first talking to the police, even through a lawyer, makes him complicit in whatever happened to her, in my book. I wonder who the voice of reason is in his family, and how they feel about being shouted down by the others.
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Old 20th September 2021, 10:00 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Rather difficult unless he crossed a land border into Mexico or Canada first, I assume his passport would be tagged.
You can't assume that. He was never charged with anything, and before her body was discovered there was no proof any crime had been committed. The state has nothing to do with federal passport control. He could easily have hopped on a plane.

And you need a passport or passport card or an "enhanced" DL to cross the land borders anyway.
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Old 20th September 2021, 06:34 PM   #48
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I can confirm that there is very limited cell service in Yellowstone.

Only at the big vistors centers - Mammoth Springs, Old Faithful, etc.

But it is all spectular!
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Old 20th September 2021, 08:00 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Kid shoulda lawyered up. Let the lawyer tell the cops whatever lawyers tell the cops in this situation. Let the lawyer tell the press he's cooperating fully with the investigation. Then just hunker down and ride out the media frenzy while due process runs its course.

(Obviously what he should have done is lawyer up and then go to the police and give a complete account of his actions and movements for the entire period in question. Up to and including a full confession, if applicable.)

Going into hiding without first talking to the police, even through a lawyer, makes him complicit in whatever happened to her, in my book. I wonder who the voice of reason is in his family, and how they feel about being shouted down by the others.

He "should have" videoed the murder for his Youtube channel. Talk about a missed opprtunity for money making content

This guy did everything he could have possibly done to look guilty. He ignored every "should have" imaginable. It started with "Hey hon, remember our domestic dispute the cops broke up recently? Well let's live in a tiny van together!"

That is one stupid dude.
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Old 20th September 2021, 08:08 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Kid shoulda lawyered up. Let the lawyer tell the cops whatever lawyers tell the cops in this situation. Let the lawyer tell the press he's cooperating fully with the investigation. Then just hunker down and ride out the media frenzy while due process runs its course.

(Obviously what he should have done is lawyer up and then go to the police and give a complete account of his actions and movements for the entire period in question. Up to and including a full confession, if applicable.)

Going into hiding without first talking to the police, even through a lawyer, makes him complicit in whatever happened to her, in my book. I wonder who the voice of reason is in his family, and how they feel about being shouted down by the others.
He did lawyer up. The lawyer issued a statement that they hope Gabby is reunited with her family and that the Laundries will remain in the background and have no comment. His parents told police he would not talk to them on the advice of their attorney.

After the body was found the lawyer issued a statement about the heartbreaking news and that they are praying for Gabby and her family. The lawyer issued a timeline in relation to Brian's car that was at the nature reserve where he allegedly disappeared.

The lawyer was supposed to do a press conference but says he called it off after talking with the FBI.
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Old 20th September 2021, 08:23 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
I can confirm that there is very limited cell service in Yellowstone.

Only at the big vistors centers - Mammoth Springs, Old Faithful, etc.

But it is all spectular!
We had decent cell service in Yellowstone but we had to buy a card for a different service than we had. I can't remember which carrier we had and which we bought the card for because we have different carriers now and it was quite a while ago.


This has to be one of the weirdest stories in a long time.

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Old 20th September 2021, 08:27 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
We had decent cell service in Yellowstone but we had to buy a card for a different service than we had. I can't remember which carrier we had and which we bought the card for because we have different carriers now and it was quite a while ago.


This has to be one of the weirdest stories in a long time.
Verizon in the park. Not great service, but ok.

Very weird story. Sorry that it was so predictable.
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Old 20th September 2021, 08:32 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
He did lawyer up. The lawyer issued a statement that they hope Gabby is reunited with her family and that the Laundries will remain in the background and have no comment. His parents told police he would not talk to them on the advice of their attorney.

After the body was found the lawyer issued a statement about the heartbreaking news and that they are praying for Gabby and her family. The lawyer issued a timeline in relation to Brian's car that was at the nature reserve where he allegedly disappeared.

The lawyer was supposed to do a press conference but says he called it off after talking with the FBI.
Thank you for the corrections. I am appeased.
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Old 20th September 2021, 08:50 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Verizon in the park. Not great service, but ok.

Very weird story. Sorry that it was so predictable.
But that's the thing, I don't see how it was predictable. Maybe they drank and got in physical fights, but usually you see people (mostly women) with black eyes and broken bones before a domestic partner advances to murdering the other.

She wrote a cryptic text to her parents and that was the last they heard from her. I picture a jealous boyfriend killing the partner in cases like that. OJ, for example, attacked Nicole in a jealous rage. That seems to be a common theme when the murdered partner knows it's coming and tries to get a message out.

I suppose because we mostly saw those pictures of Gabby smiling. It seemed like a huge leap to me to go from that to murder.
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Old 20th September 2021, 11:17 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This has to be one of the weirdest stories in a long time.
The Murdaugh murders---MUCH weirder!
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Old 21st September 2021, 01:40 AM   #56
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Wouldn't everybody be smart to wait for autopsy results, now that there is a body? So we get perhaps an idea what the most likely cause of death was - accident, suicide, homicide?
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Old 21st September 2021, 07:03 AM   #57
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I don't really get the idea that him lawyering up or hiding from this media frenzy is proof of guilt.

Keeping your mouth shut and lawyering up when the cops come asking you about a potential crime is pretty much always a good idea, even if you're innocent. Hiding from a media, especially when it goes into full frenzy over the unfortunate end of a pretty white lady, is also a good idea regardless of innocence or guilt.

I have no idea whether this dude killed this lady or not, but there's nothing suspicious about not cooperating with a police investigation trying to convict him for murder. More people should have the good sense to know that talking to the cops is not a good idea.
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Old 21st September 2021, 07:24 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
You can't assume that. He was never charged with anything, and before her body was discovered there was no proof any crime had been committed. The state has nothing to do with federal passport control. He could easily have hopped on a plane.

And you need a passport or passport card or an "enhanced" DL to cross the land borders anyway.
He's a Person of Interest and given today's capabilities it's very easy to mark someone for attention. Even if without an arrestable offense committed.
IIRR all the valid forms of ID must be swiped? Very easily monitored.
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Old 21st September 2021, 07:31 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Wouldn't everybody be smart to wait for autopsy results, now that there is a body? So we get perhaps an idea what the most likely cause of death was - accident, suicide, homicide?
Not when the media is subject to "missing white girl syndrome". But yeah, it would be smart.

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Old 21st September 2021, 07:37 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Wouldn't everybody be smart to wait for autopsy results, now that there is a body? So we get perhaps an idea what the most likely cause of death was - accident, suicide, homicide?
But the media has to know NOW!!! And any way we know autopsies are done within hours of the body being found.... I've seen it on the telly!
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Old 21st September 2021, 07:40 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Verizon in the park. Not great service, but ok.

Very weird story. Sorry that it was so predictable.
Got split up from the fam at one of the random basins. Tried to text to meet up, but there was no service at all for either of us. Didn't realize there was no signal when we split up. Didn't even think about it.

Fortunately I was able to find them, but that was where we first found the problem. It was verizon.
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Old 21st September 2021, 07:51 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Wouldn't everybody be smart to wait for autopsy results, now that there is a body? So we get perhaps an idea what the most likely cause of death was - accident, suicide, homicide?
Makes for pretty terrible discussion on a discussion forum if we don't discuss the way the news is developing, eh? This same comment appears in almost every thread like this, I've done it too, but no one here will be on the jury. None of us are in on the investigation. It's just random speculation to entertain ourselves.

Personally, I don't think lawyering up is odd at all. I wouldn't talk to a cop for anything more than a traffic violation without a lawyer present. The part that has me skeptical is that he took off to go hiking and has disappeared. No matter what that's odd.
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Old 21st September 2021, 08:10 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I don't really get the idea that him lawyering up or hiding from this media frenzy is proof of guilt.
.....
Sure, lawyering up is the right thing to do if you've committed a crime, or are suspected of one. What's suspicious is his refusal to cooperate with the search for his missing girlfriend: leaving her in Wyoming and driving her van home to Florida; never reporting her missing; never telling authorities where he last saw her; the observed history of domestic abuse, one incident even involving the police; etc., etc. And in a sense it doesn't matter a lot whether he actively murdered her, or whether he just abandoned her in the wilderness where she couldn't get help; it's impossible to believe he has clean hands.

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Old 21st September 2021, 09:01 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Sure, lawyering up is the right thing to do if you've committed a crime, or are suspected of one. What's suspicious is his refusal to cooperate with the search for his missing girlfriend: leaving her in Wyoming and driving her van home to Florida; never reporting her missing; never telling authorities where he last saw her; the observed history of domestic abuse, one incident even involving the police; etc., etc. And in a sense it doesn't matter a lot whether he actively murdered her, or whether he just abandoned her in the wilderness where she couldn't get help; it's impossible to believe he has clean hands.
Sure. The whole incident stinks to high heaven. My point is that not talking to the cops/media is undoubtedly the right response. If he's guilty, he shouldn't talk to the cops. If, somehow, he's actually innocent, he still shouldn't talk to the cops. There's plenty of suspicious behavior here that we don't have to pretend the one obviously correct response (not talking to the cops) is worthy of scrutiny.

But yeah, I agree that the circumstances of this disappearance heavily imply some sort of foul play. If not outright murder, something awry obviously happened.
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Old 21st September 2021, 09:15 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Sure. The whole incident stinks to high heaven. My point is that not talking to the cops/media is undoubtedly the right response. If he's guilty, he shouldn't talk to the cops. If, somehow, he's actually innocent, he still shouldn't talk to the cops. There's plenty of suspicious behavior here that we don't have to pretend the one obviously correct response (not talking to the cops) is worthy of scrutiny.

But yeah, I agree that the circumstances of this disappearance heavily imply some sort of foul play. If not outright murder, something awry obviously happened.
He's going to have to speak with the cops at this point no matter what. As pointed out by Bob001, he's going to have to rationalize some of his decisions. I can't imagine you would condone the actions the fiance is doing now, are you? Fine, get a lawyer, never talk to the police without one, hold off as long as you can, and be as standoffish as you feel necessary, but I'm pretty sure obstruction is going to pop up here soon.

The theory of hiring a lawyer isn't to then go on and do a bunch of illegal **** in hopes it'll get you off. I think it's time for this guy to sit down with the cops and the FBI to give his side of what happened. Either that or he's going to do it after being arrested.
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Old 21st September 2021, 09:18 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
He's going to have to speak with the cops at this point no matter what. As pointed out by Bob001, he's going to have to rationalize some of his decisions. I can't imagine you would condone the actions the fiance is doing now, are you? Fine, get a lawyer, never talk to the police without one, hold off as long as you can, and be as standoffish as you feel necessary, but I'm pretty sure obstruction is going to pop up here soon.

The theory of hiring a lawyer isn't to then go on and do a bunch of illegal **** in hopes it'll get you off. I think it's time for this guy to sit down with the cops and the FBI to give his side of what happened. Either that or he's going to do it after being arrested.
Why would he start talking after being arrested? Even for blabber mouths, getting the cuffs slapped on is often a strong alert to stop talking.

He doesn't have to talk to the cops now, and he definitely doesn't if he's arrested. hell, arrest would come with a Miranda warning explicitly advising him of his rights to shut up and get a lawyer, so he's already ahead of the game. He's the subject of a criminal investigation, he has a right to remain silent pretty much indefinitely on the matter.

If his lawyer is worth a damn, he's not going to be making any substantial statements to the police, and probably will work very hard to not say much should it go to trial.

Refusing to talk to the cops is not obstruction.

While I don't think it's necessarily likely, there are conceivable scenarios where this guy did not commit murder, but has no way to prove he didn't. Keeping his mouth shut would probably be the best way to avoid aiding a wrongful prosecution against him.
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Old 21st September 2021, 10:10 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
He's going to have to speak with the cops at this point no matter what. As pointed out by Bob001, he's going to have to rationalize some of his decisions. I can't imagine you would condone the actions the fiance is doing now, are you? Fine, get a lawyer, never talk to the police without one, hold off as long as you can, and be as standoffish as you feel necessary, but I'm pretty sure obstruction is going to pop up here soon.

The theory of hiring a lawyer isn't to then go on and do a bunch of illegal **** in hopes it'll get you off. I think it's time for this guy to sit down with the cops and the FBI to give his side of what happened. Either that or he's going to do it after being arrested.
No, he doesn't ever have to talk to the cops, not even -- and maybe especially -- if he's arrested. The cops have to find sufficient evidence to prosecute him and get a conviction. He doesn't have to help them. He can be the only suspect for the rest of his life without being charged.

And refusal to talk to the cops is not obstruction of justice, at least not in this country. But lying to the cops could be.

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Old 21st September 2021, 10:12 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
No, he doesn't ever have to talk to the cops, not even -- and maybe especially -- if he's arrested. The cops have to find sufficient evidence to prosecute him and get a conviction. He can be the only suspect for the rest of his life without being charged.

And refusal to talk to the cops is not obstruction of justice, at least not in this country.
It's really weird that there's this manhunt to find him, but no arrest warrant. What exactly do they plan to do if they find him?

Assuming he continues to refuse to talk, and they don't have an arrest warrant, they're going to have little option but to leave him where he is and let him roam wherever he pleases.
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Old 21st September 2021, 10:18 AM   #69
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Yes, I apologize. Let me clarify, he will have to sit down with the cops at this point, no matter what. Whether he chooses to say anything, or chooses not to, is completely up to him. I'm very, very sorry for phrasing myself incorrectly, but as a person of interest they can certainly hold him.

My point was that staying on the run certainly isn't going to help him, other than not being in jail or sitting with the cops.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's really weird that there's this manhunt to find him, but no arrest warrant. What exactly do they plan to do if they find him?
I'd assume the same thing that happens every time a person of interest gets arrested? Bring him in, hold him for however long they can (24-48 hours if I remember correctly), explain their case to him and let him either talk or don't.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Assuming he continues to refuse to talk, and they don't have an arrest warrant, they're going to have little option but to leave him where he is and let him roam wherever he pleases.
They can absolutely bring him in. They can gather evidence from what he has on him at the time of bringing him in. They can even bring him in on a very minor charge to book him and get more evidence.

ETA: Obstruction of a police investigation can come if you're told not to leave the area (common for people of interest in murders) and then you decide to leave the area. I'm admittedly terrible at explaining myself, but it's not that far off base for the police to charge with something like that, depending on the circumstances.

ETA2: Apparently they towed away his car, and a bunch of boxes from the house. I'd say they've gotten warrants for something at least.
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Old 21st September 2021, 10:18 AM   #70
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He's off looking for the man with one arm who killed his fiancée.
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Old 21st September 2021, 10:23 AM   #71
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//I am not a lawyer, this is layperson speaking//

I think "Person of Interest" is a legal phrase (in some jurisdictions) that at least gives the police the ability to at least question someone.

"Under arrest" is not the only possible legal interaction police can compel people to have with them.
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Old 21st September 2021, 10:23 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
It's really weird that there's this manhunt to find him, but no arrest warrant. What exactly do they plan to do if they find him?

Assuming he continues to refuse to talk, and they don't have an arrest warrant, they're going to have little option but to leave him where he is and let him roam wherever he pleases.
Well, he drove her van home. Unless he has some actual document proving that he had her permission to operate her vehicle -- and how likely is that? -- they could probably charge him with car theft just to hold him, and interstate car theft is a federal crime. And as the last person known to have seen her, they could also probably arrest him on suspicion of doing something to her; the standard for an arrest is probable cause, not beyond reasonable doubt.
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Old 21st September 2021, 10:27 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Well, he drove her van home. Unless he has some actual document proving that he had her permission to operate her vehicle -- and how likely is that? -- they could probably charge him with car theft just to hold him, and interstate car theft is a federal crime. And as the last person known to have seen her, they could also probably arrest him on suspicion of doing something to her; the standard for an arrest is probable cause, not beyond reasonable doubt.
Arrest starts the clock for trial. If they're not careful, a speedy trial motion could force them to make their case when they're not ready or cut this guy loose.

Our court system isn't great, but making a pretextual arrest of a guy that the DA isn't ready to prosecute is the kind of thing judges generally don't like.

If they want this guy to make himself available, they should issue an arrest warrant. While his behavior has and remains suspicious as hell, he's not actually doing anything improper by going wherever he pleases while not under arrest.
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Old 21st September 2021, 10:30 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
//I am not a lawyer, this is layperson speaking//

I think "Person of Interest" is a legal phrase (in some jurisdictions) that at least gives the police the ability to at least question someone.

"Under arrest" is not the only possible legal interaction police can compel people to have with them.

Person of interest has no formal definition or legal weight. The police can hold someone to ask questions under some circumstances, but there are basically no circumstances in which the cops can compel anybody to answer questions.
https://legaldictionary.net/person-of-interest/
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Old 21st September 2021, 10:32 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Person of interest has no formal definition or legal weight. The police can hold someone to ask questions under some circumstances, but there are basically no circumstances in which the cops can compel anybody to answer questions.
https://legaldictionary.net/person-of-interest/
Especially in this case where the guy has already made it clear that he will not make a statement to police and has retained a lawyer. That is the point in which any interview is supposed to stop in accordance with a person's civil rights to not incriminate themselves and have representation in criminal matters.

Trying to strong-arm this guy into making statements at this point would likely be unlawful.
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Old 21st September 2021, 10:34 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Arrest starts the clock for trial. If they're not careful, a speedy trial motion could force them to make their case when they're not ready or cut this guy loose.
Correction, arresting him for her murder starts the clock for trial for her murder.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Our court system isn't great, but making a pretextual arrest of a guy that the DA isn't ready to prosecute is the kind of thing judges generally don't like.
They can arrest him for something else, and add the charge of murder when they get the evidence, or never if they can't find it.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
If they want this guy to make himself available, they should issue an arrest warrant.
Are arrest warrants required to be public information? Could they have one and just not have it released? I'm not sure they need one to apprehend him.
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Old 21st September 2021, 10:36 AM   #77
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As for waiting for the autopsy, there's a gap here that presents a problem. The guy drove to his parent's house hundreds (thousands) of miles away. He could have reported whatever happened shortly after it happened. He didn't.

I don't think we need to wait for an autopsy report to know something is not right with this story.
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Old 21st September 2021, 10:36 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Especially in this case where the guy has already made it clear that he will not make a statement to police and has retained a lawyer. That is the point in which any interview is supposed to stop in accordance with a person's civil rights to not incriminate themselves and have representation in criminal matters.

Trying to strong-arm this guy into making statements at this point would likely be unlawful.
I don't believe any of this is true. Whether he talks or not, I'm positive he can be held for up to 48 hours.

This isn't TV where the lawyer says, "Are you going to charge my client, or are we free to go?" and then they walk out. He's a suspect in a murder investigation, he can be held, I'm positive of it.
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Old 21st September 2021, 10:37 AM   #79
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Old 21st September 2021, 10:41 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Arrest starts the clock for trial. If they're not careful, a speedy trial motion could force them to make their case when they're not ready or cut this guy loose.

Our court system isn't great, but making a pretextual arrest of a guy that the DA isn't ready to prosecute is the kind of thing judges generally don't like.

If they want this guy to make himself available, they should issue an arrest warrant. While his behavior has and remains suspicious as hell, he's not actually doing anything improper by going wherever he pleases while not under arrest.
I dunno. Car theft might be a perfectly legitimate charge. They could follow through on that while investigating murder. If he ever used her credit cards or ATM, that could be a charge, too. I don't think the cops are completely helpless here.
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