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Old 22nd September 2021, 05:25 AM   #161
TofuFighter
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
It appears not everyone remembers some facts correctly:
As for domestic violence, the body cam video recorded on August 12, when they were pulled over in Utah, near the entrance to the Arches National Park, revealed that SHE had been violent to HIM - he was the victim, and was actually lightly injured as a result. The cops there deliberated whether they should arrest HER, but decided to be nice.
I've noticed several reports describing this somewhat misleadingly, only quoting the person who made the 911 call (that guy did claim that it was Laundrie who had slapped Petito), whereas the police witness and Laundrie/Petito themselves apparently admitted it to have been the other way around. 911 call transcript and witness statement are in this link.

Domestic violence seems like a fairly strong description to me. All the same, a sign of some irritation between the two, though that is probably hardly unusual for a couple on a long trip together.

Laundrie's behaviour after the 27 August does seem quite bizarre, particularly returning home and then making no effort to assist in finding Petito. It defies logic and automatically raises suspicion. Then again (and I definitely don't want to re-direct the conversation here so please let's not do that), Casey Anthony also behaved bizarrely after the disappearance of her daughter and she was eventually acquitted.

At this stage it's still a mistake to make the assumption that Laundrie killed Petito even if everything points to that being the most likely scenario and does turn out to have been the case.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 06:49 AM   #162
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Homicide means intentional death.
No.
Homicide means death brought about by another person (as opposed to self, or a non-person such as bear, rattlesnake, virus or falling rock). Intention of death is not necessary for a homicide to be a homicide

Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Can we rule out suicide?
Yes, to the extent that "homicide" implies "not suicide".
The coroner could be mistaken, of course, as a logical possibility.

Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Self defense is a strong possibility.
A possibility, sure, as could be a push or slap that was meant to be harmless, even playful, and resulted in some freak injury or something. I am not sure about "strong". Not every "fighting back" can justifiably be called (allowed or at least mitigating) "self-defense" - she was not overpoweringly strong, and does not seem to have been in possession of a deadly weapon, so self-defense, when it results in death, is a far-fetched excuse absent the kind of freak escalation of terrible luck I alluded to.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 06:51 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
It appears not everyone remembers some facts correctly:

As for domestic violence, the body cam video recorded on August 12, when they were pulled over in Utah, near the entrance to the Arches National Park, revealed that SHE had been violent to HIM - he was the victim, and was actually lightly injured as a result. The cops there deliberated whether they should arrest HER, but decided to be nice.
Yeah, I have read a few articles and it's gotten a bit confusing for me. While you're right in that the video showed she had been violent to him:

Quote:
A month before Petito went missing, she and Laundrie were involved in a domestic disturbance in Moab, Utah. Police just released a 911 call from that day that indicated Laundrie as the one who was causing harm, but the body camera paints Petito as the aggressor, and that's how police treated it.
I don't think it's as clear cut as it appears to be on camera. The one who has the marks is the victim, so that's the way this went, but I think there's a lot going on. I think Laundrie was abusive to Gabby for a fairly significant period of time.

People act like that encounter went incorrectly, and it could have saved someone if the cops arrested one of them or so on. I don't personally think so. I don't think abusive relationships work like that.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 07:50 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Got split up from the fam at one of the random basins. Tried to text to meet up, but there was no service at all for either of us. Didn't realize there was no signal when we split up. Didn't even think about it.

Fortunately I was able to find them, but that was where we first found the problem. It was verizon.
Verizon is not great in the park. It is just the only system with towers in the park. IIRC they have three or four towers for the whole park and there is resistance to their efforts to improve service to those towers.

Anything else and you are far worse off except on the edges.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 07:58 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Theft in the UK requires the intent to permanently deprive the owner, this was his girl friend’s van doubt a prosecution case could be made that would stand up.
I assume there are sound historical reasons for the UK law to hinge on the intent rather than the act itself, and to allow for a counterclaim of "I was just borrowing it without permission, an intended to give it back at some (unspecified) point in the future".
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Old 22nd September 2021, 08:04 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
It isn't that he wasn't talking to cop, but that he wasn't talking at all. He went off with a girl in her van and came back alone with no explanation. That is obviously suspicious.

It is not proof of guilt. It is a refutation proof of guilt.

I would certainly recommend not talking to the police without a lawyer. But when you get a lawyer...it gets complicated.

The suspicion here is not about talking to police, but that he went out into the woods with her and came home alone in her van with no explanation and that nobody could contact her. He didn't even tell her family or friends that he had come back alone.

A person has a right to remain silent. There are legitimate reasons to do so. But that does not apply to every case.

The rule to not talk to cops is not a hard fast rule. And especially not for lawyers representing someone. There are times to say things and not say other things or only say certain things. The "internet" concept of never talking to police is only vaguely true.

In this case, not talking at the very minimum rightfully pushed suspicion to him killing her.
This is what I was thinking.

A less guilty looking behavior would have been to show up the next day at the *local* PD near where she disappeared, expressing concern and agitating for a search party or something. If he's unusually self-possessed and or cop-skeptical, maybe also engage a lawyer around the same time, probably after making his initial missing person report to the local police.

Or maybe something like: Talk to cops. Call parents. Parents tell him he needs to get a lawyer before he talks to the cops again. But at least he's already gotten the ball rolling on the search and rescue front.

The most suspicious part of this isn't the lawyering up. It's the fact that he delayed the start of the search by several days.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 08:39 AM   #167
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Yeah, it's hard to imagine a scenario where he's not somehow involved in her death. He said nothing at all when they were searching for her. If he didn't already know she was dead, that was callous and bizarre.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 08:47 AM   #168
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It's almost as if....nah, it just couldn't be...perhaps in real life, murderers and criminals aren't the brightest, most rational, good-in-a-crisis, forward-planning people! But on TV they're all brilliant geniuses, plotting whole seasons ahead, weaving fiendishly intricate webs of clever deception that takes an equally genius detective (and super smart viewing audience!) to figure it out!

Congrats to all those who "figured out" the huge mystery here! You're so smart you could be criminal geniuses also!
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Old 22nd September 2021, 09:00 AM   #169
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It's almost as if....nah, it just couldn't be...perhaps in real life, murderers and criminals aren't the brightest, most rational, good-in-a-crisis, forward-planning people! But on TV they're all brilliant geniuses, plotting whole seasons ahead, weaving fiendishly intricate webs of clever deception that takes an equally genius detective (and super smart viewing audience!) to figure it out!

Congrats to all those who "figured out" the huge mystery here! You're so smart you could be criminal geniuses also!
Dude relax. We all know he did it. We're just noodling around with the scenario because we're bored and/or addicted.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 09:02 AM   #170
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It's almost as if....nah, it just couldn't be...perhaps in real life, murderers and criminals aren't the brightest, most rational, good-in-a-crisis, forward-planning people! But on TV they're all brilliant geniuses, plotting whole seasons ahead, weaving fiendishly intricate webs of clever deception that takes an equally genius detective (and super smart viewing audience!) to figure it out!

Congrats to all those who "figured out" the huge mystery here! You're so smart you could be criminal geniuses also!
To be fair, he's smarter than a lot of criminals because he didn't try to go sell the cops some flimsy story and get tricked into confessing. Clamming up and getting a lawyer shows a level of clear-thinking that is uncommon.

Not that I think it'll matter in the long run.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 09:06 AM   #171
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
To be fair, he's smarter than a lot of criminals because he didn't try to go sell the cops some flimsy story and get tricked into confessing. Clamming up and getting a lawyer shows a level of clear-thinking that is uncommon.

Not that I think it'll matter in the long run.
You REALLY seem to be giving him a ton of props for getting an attorney lol.

This guy is an absolute ******* moron. There isn't anything at all he could have done to make himself look more guilty than what he's done so far.

You're impressed because he hired an attorney? That's it? He could have had a perfect crime here, and instead he left a trail thousands of miles long leading directly to his front door. In fact, hiring an attorney is about the only intelligent thing this moron has done. I have no idea why you think that shows clear-thinking. He made 20 mistakes before that lol.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 09:09 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Dude relax. We all know he did it. We're just noodling around with the scenario because we're bored and/or addicted.
Grinds my gears because there's a way more interesting thing going on in SC right now. That one is definitely going to wind up as a miniseries, it's nuts.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 09:10 AM   #173
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
You REALLY seem to be giving him a ton of props for getting an attorney lol.

This guy is an absolute ******* moron. There isn't anything at all he could have done to make himself look more guilty than what he's done so far.

You're impressed because he hired an attorney? That's it? He could have had a perfect crime here, and instead he left a trail thousands of miles long leading directly to his front door. In fact, hiring an attorney is about the only intelligent thing this moron has done. I have no idea why you think that shows clear-thinking. He made 20 mistakes before that lol.
Smarter than most criminals is still pretty dumb.

Getting a lawyer and shutting up is undoubtedly the wisest move available at the time, but that says nothing about anything that happened before.

If I had to guess, I would say this was a spur of the moment "hot blood" murder and he's been scrambling ever since to avoid the inevitable consequences. All things considered, he's done pretty well. He didn't willingly walk into an interrogation room where there's a good chance he would have been sweated into giving himself away.

Not that it will matter. Circumstantial evidence puts him with the victim in a remote area, they have a body and surely more physical evidence soon.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 09:14 AM   #174
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It's funny watching you try not to hate cops so much you don't accidently wind up on the killer's side by default. It's like you're mad that the cops haven't already caught the guy and didn't get caught beating him with a baseball bat and a phonebook in an integration room so you can get mad about that. Like you're mad the cops haven't given you anything to get mad about yet.
If you say so. I've made it clear that, like must people, see that it is overwhelmingly likely that this dude murdered the woman.

My gripe is that incessant meme that refusing to talk to the cops is proof he's guilty. Any criminal defense attorney or civil rights lawyer will tell you that nobody, even the innocent, should be agreeing to be interviewed by the cops.

It's so weird because I imagine all these true crime fanatics following this case also breathlessly followed the big cases like Serial or Making a Murderer where the dangers of talking to the cops are explored in depth. I guess everyone just forgot.

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I wonder what you were like doing the OJ Trial?
Eagerly anticipating kindergarten.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 09:18 AM   #175
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Grinds my gears because there's a way more interesting thing going on in SC right now. That one is definitely going to wind up as a miniseries, it's nuts.
Is there a thread about it? What's going on in SC? I read the news a lot and maybe I've missed it.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 09:22 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
If I had to guess, I would say this was a spur of the moment "hot blood" murder and he's been scrambling ever since to avoid the inevitable consequences. All things considered, he's done pretty well. He didn't willingly walk into an interrogation room where there's a good chance he would have been sweated into giving himself away.
Yeah, he's done extremely well for himself for sure. He's just the main person of interest in a murder that's now on the run and more than likely dead.

But yeah, lol, at least he's not in an interrogation room with the attorney that he so brilliantly hired. There's no way he's giving himself away now

Your absolute hatred for the cops puts you in some ridiculous positions. This is one of them.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Not that it will matter. Circumstantial evidence puts him with the victim in a remote area, they have a body and surely more physical evidence soon.
But he does have that lawyer! That lawyer has really paid off for him for sure. I wonder why his genius didn't lead him to, you know, let the lawyer do his job. Instead he bolted, and doesn't really seem to care that he has a lawyer.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 09:26 AM   #177
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All I ever said was that not talking to the cops is a good idea regardless of innocence or guilt.

You can try to tar this as some fringe anti cop attitude, but any expert even vaguely familiar with how the criminal justice system works would give the same advice.

Quote:
A Law Professor Explains Why You Should Never Talk to Police
James Duane says you shouldn't say anything to a cop for any reason, you shouldn't plead the Fifth, and you shouldn't stay silent. So what should you do?

James Duane doesn't think you should ever talk to the police. Not just, "Don't talk to the police if you're accused of a crime," or, "Don't talk to the police in an interrogation setting"—never talk to the cops, period. If you are found doing something suspicious by an officer (say, breaking into your own house because you locked yourself outside), you are legally obligated to tell the cop your name and what you're doing at that very moment.

Other than that, Duane says, you should fall back on four short words: "I want a lawyer."

In 2008, Duane, a professor at Virginia's Regent Law School, gave a lecture about the risks of talking to police that was filmed and posted to YouTube. It's since been viewed millions of times, enjoying a new viral boost after the Netflix documentary Making a Murderer spurred interest in false confessions. His argument, which he's since expanded into a new book called You Have the Right to Remain Innocent, is that even if you haven't committed a crime, it's dangerous to tell the police any information. You might make mistakes when explaining where you were at the time of a crime that the police interpret as lies; the officer talking to you could misremember what you say much later; you may be tricked into saying the wrong things by cops under no obligation to tell you the truth; and your statements to police could, in combination with faulty eyewitness accounts, shoddy "expert" testimony, and sheer bad luck, lead to you being convicted of a serious crime.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/mvkg...ution-survival

"Don't talk to the cops" is the exact advice any civil rights group or attorney would give to just about anyone.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 09:31 AM   #178
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Is there a thread about it? What's going on in SC? I read the news a lot and maybe I've missed it.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/13/us/mu...ine/index.html

My mom's family is from around there, and this family has always been a big deal. Practically like the Kennedys to the locals. And apparently just as law-abiding!
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Old 22nd September 2021, 09:38 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
If I had to guess, I would say this was a spur of the moment "hot blood" murder and he's been scrambling ever since to avoid the inevitable consequences. All things considered, he's done pretty well. He didn't willingly walk into an interrogation room where there's a good chance he would have been sweated into giving himself away.
If he isn't found in the gator park, my bet is his parents have been misleading the search teams, exposing them to potential charges. So there is that.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 09:40 AM   #180
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/13/us/mu...ine/index.html

My mom's family is from around there, and this family has always been a big deal. Practically like the Kennedys to the locals. And apparently just as law-abiding!
Oh yeah, the lawyer that lost his wife and child, then bought a hit that failed to work. He then resigned.

I'm vaguely familiar, but I thought it was all wrapped up.

You should start a thread, that would be worth talking about I think, or at least have an "updates" thread.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 09:44 AM   #181
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
All I ever said was that not talking to the cops is a good idea regardless of innocence or guilt.

You can try to tar this as some fringe anti cop attitude, but any expert even vaguely familiar with how the criminal justice system works would give the same advice.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/mvkg...ution-survival

"Don't talk to the cops" is the exact advice any civil rights group or attorney would give to just about anyone.
Because you're taking it to some ridiculous extreme. Do you think a single ******* one of those attorneys, the one you're quoting or any other, would advise their client to take off and disappear without any contact with anyone anywhere?

No one, not one single person in this thread that I have seen, has said that he should have willingly sat down to talk with the cops without an attorney. No one. Do you have a name of someone that has?

So you can stop linking to all these lawyers and professors that are saying the exact same thing everyone agrees with! As I even said, that's about the only good decision he has made in this entire thing, and I don't even think his stupid ass hired the attorney. I'm about 99.9% positive his parents did, so I'm certainly not giving him props for it. That being said, I bet they'd all advise vehemently against what this man has chosen to do post hiring the attorney. You seem to be lauding his behavior as an awesome alternative to sitting down with the cops with an attorney present. He IS going to sit down with the cops (if he's alive). He IS going to be interrogated. He DOES NOT have to say a damn thing, but his actions up to right now WILL get him arrested.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 09:53 AM   #182
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Because you're taking it to some ridiculous extreme. Do you think a single ******* one of those attorneys, the one you're quoting or any other, would advise their client to take off and disappear without any contact with anyone anywhere?

No one, not one single person in this thread that I have seen, has said that he should have willingly sat down to talk with the cops without an attorney. No one. Do you have a name of someone that has?

So you can stop linking to all these lawyers and professors that are saying the exact same thing everyone agrees with! As I even said, that's about the only good decision he has made in this entire thing, and I don't even think his stupid ass hired the attorney. I'm about 99.9% positive his parents did, so I'm certainly not giving him props for it. That being said, I bet they'd all advise vehemently against what this man has chosen to do post hiring the attorney. You seem to be lauding his behavior as an awesome alternative to sitting down with the cops with an attorney present. He IS going to sit down with the cops (if he's alive). He IS going to be interrogated. He DOES NOT have to say a damn thing, but his actions up to right now WILL get him arrested.
I'm not sure what exactly you think we are in disagreement. Committing murder is, legally and morally speaking, not a great idea.

You seem to think I'm defending this guy, I'm not.

Like most people commenting on this case, I'm taking it for-granted that this seemingly obviously guilty guy is in fact guilty, so we're all just commenting on the meta discussion.

The part of the meta discussion I find strange is the seeming wide-spread insistence that him refusing to talk to the cops is bad, which is patently ridiculous. I am simply pushing back against the mob that is insisting only "bad guys" invoke their rights to remain silent or their rights to an attorney.

On the very, very remote chances he's actually innocent, refusing to talk to the cops (and the media) is probably a wise move. Given the extreme media scrutiny, laying low where the media can't find you seems reasonable too.

Go on a thought experiment with me. Let's say a minor miracle has occurred, and this guy is actually 100% innocent. What should he do? Not talking to the cops and making yourself scarce seems like a great first step.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 10:15 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The part of the meta discussion I find strange is the seeming wide-spread insistence that him refusing to talk to the cops is bad, which is patently ridiculous. I am simply pushing back against the mob that is insisting only "bad guys" invoke their rights to remain silent or their rights to an attorney.
And as I pointed out, I'm not really seeing anyone make that argument. At least not for the last few pages anywhere. You're right, we're all in agreement.

However, I can say that if he's still alive, and he's continuing this behavior just to avoid talking to the cops, then I think that's stupid. Remaining silent is great. What he's doing now is stupid and reckless.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
On the very, very remote chances he's actually innocent, refusing to talk to the cops (and the media) is probably a wise move. Given the extreme media scrutiny, laying low where the media can't find you seems reasonable too.
I would be hard-pressed to think any attorney would advise their client to do what Brian is doing now. They've impounded his car, raided his house, and are looking for him fairly intensely.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Go on a thought experiment with me. Let's say a minor miracle has occurred, and this guy is actually 100% innocent. What should he do? Not talking to the cops and making yourself scarce seems like a great first step.
LoL what? No. I mean, maybe to you, but it's definitely not what I'd do, and not what I've done in the past. I'd hire an attorney, sit down with the police, and explain to them my side of the story after discussing it completely with my attorney. How is this helping him at all, other than delaying the inevitable?

Maybe I am dumb. Maybe completely disappearing from all forms of communication and hiding out is the correct answer for some here. I don't think it is, but you do. I guess we're different.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 10:21 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
And as I pointed out, I'm not really seeing anyone make that argument. At least not for the last few pages anywhere. You're right, we're all in agreement.

However, I can say that if he's still alive, and he's continuing this behavior just to avoid talking to the cops, then I think that's stupid. Remaining silent is great. What he's doing now is stupid and reckless.



I would be hard-pressed to think any attorney would advise their client to do what Brian is doing now. They've impounded his car, raided his house, and are looking for him fairly intensely.



LoL what? No. I mean, maybe to you, but it's definitely not what I'd do, and not what I've done in the past. I'd hire an attorney, sit down with the police, and explain to them my side of the story after discussing it completely with my attorney. How is this helping him at all, other than delaying the inevitable?

Maybe I am dumb. Maybe completely disappearing from all forms of communication and hiding out is the correct answer for some here. I don't think it is, but you do. I guess we're different.
I very much doubt you're attorney would be happy for you to sit down and "explain your side", and if they were you should get a new attorney.

I tend to agree with what others have said, the decent explanation for his total lack of communication is that he killed himself.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 10:28 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I very much doubt you're attorney would be happy for you to sit down and "explain your side", and if they were you should get a new attorney.
Yeah, they'd probably be like, "Run, plague311. Do not talk with anyone else, just run. Stay hidden, stay out of sight. That's the only reasonable thing to do here." All of my attorneys have acted like Dally from The Outsiders.

That's exactly what my attorney had me do. I sat down with him, gave a detailed explanation of the event that happened, we went to the police station, the cops asked me questions. Some he had me answer, some he didn't. After that the cops charged me, I went to trial, and got off.

So, I guess your take is different than my anecdotal experience. I'll be sure to let him know how dumb you think he is though. He certainly screwed me over. If only I were in the position that Laundrie is I would be much happier.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I tend to agree with what others have said, the decent explanation for his total lack of communication is that he killed himself.
Me too. How does this relate to having an attorney?
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Old 22nd September 2021, 10:35 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Yeah, they'd probably be like, "Run, plague311. Do not talk with anyone else, just run. Stay hidden, stay out of sight. That's the only reasonable thing to do here." All of my attorneys have acted like Dally from The Outsiders.

That's exactly what my attorney had me do. I sat down with him, gave a detailed explanation of the event that happened, we went to the police station, the cops asked me questions. Some he had me answer, some he didn't. After that the cops charged me, I went to trial, and got off.

So, I guess your take is different than my anecdotal experience. I'll be sure to let him know how dumb you think he is though. He certainly screwed me over. If only I were in the position that Laundrie is I would be much happier.



Me too. How does this relate to having an attorney?
There is a very obvious non-nefarious reason why he might not want people to know where he is. I imagine there would be a full media circus set up in the lawn of any place he was known to be staying.

Realistically, laying low while remaining in contact with the attorney would probably be the best course of action. The lawyer could reassure cops you hadn't taken off for Mexico and were around whenever the arrest warrant inevitably comes down, but out of sight of the general public, the media, and cops that really, really want him to make their case easy through confession.

This is all moot if he's dead, which is why I mentioned suicide.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 10:38 AM   #187
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Some cowards are averse to suicide.

Worst case scenario: He's already taken another life, to avoid detection, only hidden this other body much better.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 10:46 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
The part of the meta discussion I find strange is the seeming wide-spread insistence that him refusing to talk to the cops is bad, which is patently ridiculous. I am simply pushing back against the mob that is insisting only "bad guys" invoke their rights to remain silent or their rights to an attorney.

On the very, very remote chances he's actually innocent, refusing to talk to the cops (and the media) is probably a wise move.
No good attorney is going to tell you stay silent FOREVER which seems to be what you are saying. You get an attorney and then talk to the cops. I'm not a lawyer, but I'd bet most lawyers would have advised to help find the missing woman no matter what the circumstance.

Everything he has done for several weeks is very wrong. Even the most generous of interpretations has him responsible for not helping find her.

Not talking to the cops was only a good thing for a couple days many weeks ago.

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Old 22nd September 2021, 10:48 AM   #189
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
There is a very obvious non-nefarious reason why he might not want people to know where he is. I imagine there would be a full media circus set up in the lawn of any place he was known to be staying.

Realistically, laying low while remaining in contact with the attorney would probably be the best course of action. The lawyer could reassure cops you hadn't taken off for Mexico and were around whenever the arrest warrant inevitably comes down, but out of sight of the general public, the media, and cops that really, really want him to make their case easy through confession.

This is all moot if he's dead, which is why I mentioned suicide.
Look, we're never going to see eye-to-eye so I'll just drop it. I can't imagine thinking that just hiding out somewhere and not talking to the cops when there is an active manhunt for you, is the correct decision, or that any lawyer worth his weight in dog **** would advise you to make that play. It's just...mind boggling.

ETA: The reason being the cops will find him. Dead or alive. Then, if alive, he will have to sit down with the cops. He'll have no choice. If he doesn't want to say anything, he doesn't have to but he will be arrested, and he will be put in jail, without bond for absolutely sure. None of that is in doubt for me at all. This stunt, if he's alive, isn't helping him at all. It's not changing the outcome as being arrested and going to jail are an inevitability. It's unavoidable.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 10:52 AM   #190
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
No.
Homicide means death brought about by another person (as opposed to self, or a non-person such as bear, rattlesnake, virus or falling rock). Intention of death is not necessary for a homicide to be a homicide


Yes, to the extent that "homicide" implies "not suicide".
The coroner could be mistaken, of course, as a logical possibility.


A possibility, sure, as could be a push or slap that was meant to be harmless, even playful, and resulted in some freak injury or something. I am not sure about "strong". Not every "fighting back" can justifiably be called (allowed or at least mitigating) "self-defense" - she was not overpoweringly strong, and does not seem to have been in possession of a deadly weapon, so self-defense, when it results in death, is a far-fetched excuse absent the kind of freak escalation of terrible luck I alluded to.
IF First responder finds a body with a bullet to the head, it's homicide. Later evidence.

Do we have a cause of death? Overdose? (under suspicious circumstance, POSSIBLE HOMICIDE)
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Old 22nd September 2021, 10:52 AM   #191
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post

ETA: The reason being the cops will find him. Dead or alive. Then, if alive, he will have to sit down with the cops. He'll have no choice. If he doesn't want to say anything, he doesn't have to but he will be arrested, and he will be put in jail, without bond for absolutely sure. None of that is in doubt for me at all. This stunt, if he's alive, isn't helping him at all. It's not changing the outcome as being arrested and going to jail are an inevitability. It's unavoidable.
Seems to me that cart is before the horse.

There's a manhunt, but no warrant. hell, he's not even doing anything illegal by going on an unannounced nature romp. He's not a fugitive.

Let's say they find him today, sitting by a campfire roasting a hot dog out in the wilderness. Are they gonna arrest him? What for?

I'm surprised there hasn't been a warrant now that a body has been recovered. Seems like more than enough to get a judge to sign. Perhaps this initial autopsy wasn't as conclusive as it was originally reported.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 11:01 AM   #192
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Seems to me that cart is before the horse.

There's a manhunt, but no warrant. hell, he's not even doing anything illegal by going on an unannounced nature romp. He's not a fugitive.
LoL ok.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Let's say they find him today, sitting by a campfire roasting a hot dog out in the wilderness. Are they gonna arrest him? What for?
Do I think they'll arrest him? Abso ******* lutely I think they will. To be safe though, they'd probably just "take him into custody for questioning". Then, since he's lawyered up and won't say anything, they'll place him under arrest, process him, and throw him in a cell.

Have you never been arrested before?

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I'm surprised there hasn't been a warrant now that a body has been recovered. Seems like more than enough to get a judge to sign. Perhaps this initial autopsy wasn't as conclusive as it was originally reported.
You seem to think that the police don't have an arrest warrant because they can't get one. What difference would an arrest warrant make at this point? They're looking for him with the same intensity as if there were one.

Here's an article that has a bit of an explanation.

All things said and done, an arrest warrant doesn't get them any closer to finding Brian. They don't need one to arrest him, at all, for any reason. It's not a requirement to put cuffs on him and haul his ass into jail. It's an unneeded commitment at this point.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 11:15 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
LoL ok.


Do I think they'll arrest him? Abso ******* lutely I think they will. To be safe though, they'd probably just "take him into custody for questioning". Then, since he's lawyered up and won't say anything, they'll place him under arrest, process him, and throw him in a cell.
Seems strange to me that the cops would chose not to get a warrant, but then hunt someone down and make a probable cause arrest.


Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
You seem to think that the police don't have an arrest warrant because they can't get one. What difference would an arrest warrant make at this point? They're looking for him with the same intensity as if there were one.
No, in fact the opposite. Seems like any judge would be happy to issue one at this point. I'm quite confused as to why they wouldn't get one at this point. I understand before it was a bit hairy as a "missing person", but there's a body now. A warrant completely clears up any legal problems about trying to find this guy, and it makes it illegal for anyone to help him evade the police.

Right now, there would be nothing illegal about letting this guy sleep on your couch, or even giving him a ride across the country. He's not a fugitive until there's a warrant.

Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Here's an article that has a bit of an explanation.

All things said and done, an arrest warrant doesn't get them any closer to finding Brian. They don't need one to arrest him, at all, for any reason. It's not a requirement to put cuffs on him and haul his ass into jail. It's an unneeded commitment at this point.
I saw that article too. I wish that the interview went into more detail in this exchange, it's entirely unhelpful:

Quote:
"They want to find him. Period. They are now devoting all of their resources as if there was an arrest warrant out for him. But there's still not officially an arrest warrant," Abrams said.

"Why not?" George Stephanopoulos asked on "Good Morning America" Thursday.

"I think that they want to gather all of the evidence so that they don't get accused in a trial later of making mistakes," Abrams said.

Extremely vague on why getting a warrant right now would be a "mistake".

ETA:
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Have you never been arrested before?
No, I'm a good boy.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 11:48 AM   #194
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
... but I think there's a lot going on. I think Laundrie was abusive to Gabby for a fairly significant period of time.
...
So you are quite the psychic talent, eh?
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Old 22nd September 2021, 11:50 AM   #195
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
So you are quite the psychic talent, eh?
Nope. Just the way it works in most cases like this.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 11:53 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
So you are quite the psychic talent, eh?
LoL did I say "I'm positive he was abusive to her" or did I say "I think"? It was just an observation.

As Dudalb mentioned, it's pretty common in cases like these for there to be a history of abuse that led up to this catastrophic event.

If you think I'm wrong, good for you. I never claimed any psychic powers or any absolute knowledge.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 11:55 AM   #197
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Seems strange to me that the cops would chose not to get a warrant, but then hunt someone down and make a probable cause arrest.

No, in fact the opposite. Seems like any judge would be happy to issue one at this point. I'm quite confused as to why they wouldn't get one at this point. I understand before it was a bit hairy as a "missing person", but there's a body now. A warrant completely clears up any legal problems about trying to find this guy, and it makes it illegal for anyone to help him evade the police.
Simple, in order to get an arrest warrant you have to submit evidence. Which is what the article was saying. If they submit the wrong evidence, or if they make a mistake, if something isn't right, then it can cause problems down the road with the arrest. There is absolutely zero legal problems with the way they're doing it now. None. Nada. Zilch. His rights aren't being infringed at all.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Right now, there would be nothing illegal about letting this guy sleep on your couch, or even giving him a ride across the country. He's not a fugitive until there's a warrant.
You're absolutely right, which might take some of the fear out of going home, or calling your parents for a ride, or calling known associates who could report it to the authorities.

Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
No, I'm a good boy.
I'm not. I've been through the process a time or two.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 03:31 PM   #198
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Chances are good the parents got the lawyer for him.

It's not clear if he has contacted or is in contact with 'his' lawyer.

Walsh (America's Most Wanted) suggests he may never have gone to his parent's house at all.

I am surprised the van has not turned up somewhere. It's all over the news so someone is going to have spotted it. Apparently the car with the note in it is his car, a Mustang or something. If the parents drove that car to the place he supposedly is hiking in, that's bad. I have no opinion on Walsh's hypothesis.

As for he killed her, I have no qualms about saying he did, no 'allegedly' about it. The news media can refrain from saying so. People in the thread can be all judgy about not being a purest over the thing.

She's dead. It was homicide of some kind. There was one news report that he was a very jealous guy. They had a domestic altercation where the police were called. And he didn't report her death or her missing. I don't need it spelled out more clearly than that.

And as for her slapping him, it sounds like that was what she said to the cops (typical of a domestic abuse victim) but the call to the police was that he was seen 'slapping her', not the other way around. [Cue the gazillionth rehash about poor poor physically abused men, how dare anyone suggest men can't be raped or be abuse victims despite no one arguing that.]

He could have killed himself by now. But that suggests he feels bad that he killed her. I wonder if he does? I give that one 50:50 odds give or take because I have no idea what the stats are and/or much about him.

As for the warrant, they don't need it and it requires they present a case that may not have until they find him.

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Old 22nd September 2021, 03:38 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
Homicide means intentional death. Can we rule out suicide? Self defense is a strong possibility.

If he was defending himself he should have told the police that from the start. So I'd say no possibility of self defense.
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Old 22nd September 2021, 03:58 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I am surprised the van has not turned up somewhere. It's all over the news so someone is going to have spotted it.
Was it ever lost? Police searched it a week ago and found a hard drive they now have permission to examine.
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