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Tags alec baldwin , gun incidents , shooting incidents

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Old 22nd October 2021, 09:11 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
//Again pending details, early reporting of a fluid story, right retained to adjust opinion later, all that dutifully acknowledged//

You're an actor. If the gun safety guy says the gun is safe... you kind of have to go on his word, if that was the scenario.
You must go on the armorer's word, and follow his instructions carefully. You don't fiddle with the prop. You don't "check" it. The actor's job is to do exactly what the combat director, armorer, and other safety-oriented people tell you to do, and not second-guess them. It's their responsibility to hand you a prop they know is safe if operated correctly, and it's your responsibility to operate it the way they tell you.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 09:18 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I am a bit lost on how two people could have been so grievously wounded. The reporting implies it was a single shot.

Perhaps a barrel obstruction of some sort caused a catastrophic failure? Maybe the pistol caused something close by to burst and send fragments flying?

Two people injured so badly makes me think that something sent fragments of material flying.
Gun gets dropped (maybe even intentionally as part of the scene). A bit of dirt and a pebble or two get into the barrel without anyone noticing. Out brave character picks up the gun and fires, aiming at or near the camera.

I could see that being the sort of mistake an armorer with less experience in movie making could do. Might be a great armorer on the range, but dealing with the less controlled environment of a movie set could cause a situationally inexperienced person to miss a thing or two - even of they are overall very well experienced and skilled.


(ETA: Okay, that theory was disproved within one minute of posting it. It was a real bullet, not just debris in the barrel or injury from being too close to the gas discharge from a blank.)

Last edited by crescent; 22nd October 2021 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 09:19 AM   #83
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Several news outlets are reporting this from showbiz411

Quote:
An eyewitness on set tells this column that the bullet went straight through the body of DP Halyna Hutchins and into the clavicle of the film’s director Joel Souza.

Very quickly the set was locked down. Ambulance and helicopters arrived. Hutchins and Souza were sent straight to the hospital. Hutchins died en route in a helicopter.

On the ground, Baldwin was in shock but composed. He kept asking why he was handed a “hot gun.” Our eyewitness said Baldwin kept saying “In all my years, I’ve never been handed a hot gun.”
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Old 22nd October 2021, 09:22 AM   #84
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From Twitter, "Shannon Watts" (whatever it's worth):

Quote:
IATSE Local 44, which covers prop masters, says the prop gun fired on the set of “Rust” contained a live round, and that the prop master was non-union. Prop masters or licensed armorers are responsible for handling weapons on set, including loading blanks.
ETA:

https://www.indiewire.com/2021/10/al...mpression=true

Quote:
In the email that IATSE Local 44 sent to its membership, Secretary-Treasurer Anthony Pawluc described the event as an “an accidental weapons discharge” in which “A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member Halnya Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza … Local 44 has confirmed that the Props, Set Decoration, Special Effects and Construction Departments were staffed by New Mexico crew members. There were no Local 44 members on the call sheet.”
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Old 22nd October 2021, 09:25 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The words "sorry I shot and killed her" are conspicuously absent
Is that a joke or do you seriously think that would be appropriate? Those words aren't even remotely appropriate IMO.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 09:26 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
From Twitter, "Shannon Watts" (whatever it's worth):



ETA:

https://www.indiewire.com/2021/10/al...mpression=true
Big if true
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Old 22nd October 2021, 09:32 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
It's a western show, and my best guess is he was doing literally what the shot in that show was calling for and what he was being directed to do. How many movies, shows, etc. have a gun pointed at the camera?
Oh, sure. The "looking up/down the gun barrel" framing is part of the vocabulary, and one of the things you can do in film that you can't do in live theater. It wouldn't surprise me if it was a dramatic shot just like you suggest.

Quote:
The line, "You never point a gun at something you don't want to kill" isn't always the way the real world works.
But it is, in the sense that inadvertent shootings happen enough that the rule should stand. Want to have an up-the-barrel shot? Use a non-functional firearm. Want to have the gun fire? Add it in post. Absolutely need to have real smoke? Triple-check for blanks, put a Perspex barrier in front of the camera, have the actor aim just off-axis, remove all unnecessary people, and film from a distance with a long lens. If you insist on having an operating firearm on the set and you insist on firing it at a manned camera, you are engaging in behavior that the rule was meant to cover. In my experience that's deliberately reckless.

Quote:
No one wanted this to happen, ******* NO ONE wanted this to happen.
Well, of course not. I've been present for near-fatal accidents at our theater. A guy got his head caught in moving stage parts and it nearly tore his face off. Blood everywhere. No one desires these things to happen. It's all about complacency and pressure to produce. You think that you can get away with being reckless "just this one time." The victim, a friend of mine, fully acknowledges that he thought he could get away with violating safety rules "just that one time."

Quote:
That a director and a DoP were standing behind a camera, directing the scene and the gun went off\was fired, injuring both, is not that far out of the realm of thought.
We don't know the details, but I agree it's not out of the realm of thought. But as the lawyers would want to say, this is strict liability, or rather, res ipse loquitur. If someone gets shot on a film set with a "prop" gun, that's all the proof you need that someone wasn't being appropriately careful.

Quote:
Chastise as you like, and I'm open to being wrong, but I'd be shocked if this is anyone's fault but the armorer\prop master.
It's the armorer's fault whether it's his fault or not. You get what I mean by that? He has one job and one job only: to make sure the weapons used in the production do not actually harm anyone, no matter who's actually handling them. The way I'm speculating the scenario unfolded in my mind is probably little different than what you're thinking of. We haven't seen any evidence that Baldwin did anything other than what he was directed to do. I'm hoping the investigation gets to the bottom of it and we get more accurate details soon.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 09:37 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Dumb All Over View Post
Or it could be premeditated MURDER!

You have to say that in a fake Belgian accent to be convincing.

"Or eet could be plee-med-ee-tay-tahd male-dale!"

Try it out loud, while holding a snifter of cognac with one hand and tapping your forehead with the other. See how much more authoritative it sounds that way?
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Old 22nd October 2021, 09:52 AM   #89
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Why do they even use guns with powerful blank charges anymore? Half the time they redo the sound track anyway. Just a little flash should be sufficient, then add in a booming bang at your heart's content.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 09:53 AM   #90
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Were there any butlers on the set?
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Old 22nd October 2021, 09:56 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Why do they even use guns with powerful blank charges anymore? Half the time they redo the sound track anyway. Just a little flash should be sufficient, then add in a booming bang at your heart's content.
Honestly I never know what, from an onset filmmaking angle, a blank could do that a children's cap gun couldn't do.

Even in the old pre-CGI days all you needed was some kind of smoke and some kind of noise. If you don't like the onset noise it would be the easiest Foley job to put a stock gunshot sound effect over it.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 09:58 AM   #92
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One thing about revolvers in movies is that you can see the bullets if you're looking from the front. If the goal is realistic firearms, that means having realistic looking revolver ammo (as opposed to just blanks that look strange).

Here's a pic of what I mean. You can see the heads of all but the bullet actually in the firing position from the front.

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-ha...-49713821.html

Using a revolver for a prop might mean using non-firing cartridges that appear to be live rounds in non-firing scenes. It must make it hard to ensure safety to have dummies that look like live rounds in the same set, though one could conceive of safety measures and and other modifications that would make loading real live ammo impossible.

How exactly a live round got on set is a good question, if indeed this is what happened. I can't think of any good reason live ammo should be anywhere on set.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:03 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This is horrible. I mean, aside from the dead woman, I can't even imagine the emotional toll this will have on Baldwin. Forget about career implications.

The hate and clowning he is going to get over this will be legendary. Just the memes alone will be devastating.
Well, that didn't take long...




https://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...y-kill-someone
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:07 AM   #94
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Yeah because that's the same thing
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:08 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah because that's the same thing
you start to see why the crazies are starting to prefer Epoch Times or whatever over Fox News. This is pretty weak, I know they can do better if they try.

Tie the DP to the Clintons somehow, say it was a hit. Where's Q when you need him?
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:09 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yeah because that's the same thing
I saw the articles and posts, and rolled my eyes. Alec, as has come out now, holds no responsibility for this incident. Although, look at the source. It's Fox News. They're still mad Alec made fun of Trump. Imagine being so heartless that you try to score a "gotcha" after an accident that killed a 42 year old woman? I'd be ashamed.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:09 AM   #97
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I find it hard to believe that a live round would be anywhere near a movie set, especially with the principal actors on scene. I'm sure we'll find out soon what really happened.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:10 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
The words "sorry I shot and killed her" are conspicuously absent
Because confessing to a (possible) crime is never a good thing to do until you get legal advice.

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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:11 AM   #99
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It might not have been "round" in the traditional sense. There were no full, complete, live bullets involved in the incident that killed Brandon Lee for instance but essentially part of one blank bullet was left over in the barrel and the next blank bullet fired basically shot it out turning two blanks into one defacto bullet.

So this incident MIGHT have not involved what we think of as a full, complete, live bullet at all.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:13 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by JayUtah View Post
The relevant unions are on strike right now, so there's a good chance it was a non-union armorer.
....

The unions voted to strike, but reached an agreement before they actually walked out.
Quote:
(CNN) A threatened strike on major TV and film production was averted Saturday night, just hours before a midnight deadline.

The association representing producers made a tentative deal with the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employee (IATSE), a union representing roughly 60,000 film and television workers, including technicians and craftspeople, IATSE announced Saturday.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/16/enter...tse/index.html
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:20 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
It might not have been "round" in the traditional sense. There were no full, complete, live bullets involved in the incident that killed Brandon Lee for instance but essentially part of one blank bullet was left over in the barrel and the next blank bullet fired basically shot it out turning two blanks into one defacto bullet.

So this incident MIGHT have not involved what we think of as a full, complete, live bullet at all.
"Round" just means cartridge. It could be applied to a blank cartridge. I don't think the use of the word "round" means much.

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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:21 AM   #102
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The International Cinematographer's Guild (of which Hutchins was a member) is asking for a full investigation, which to be fair certainly is/was going to happen anyway.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:22 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
The International Cinematographer's Guild (of which Hutchins was a member) is asking for a full investigation, which to fair certainly is/was going to happen anyway.
I would be shocked if anyone wanted anything different. The only exception is probably the individual in charge of making sure this doesn't happen...
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:22 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
"Round" just mean cartridge. It could be applied to a blank cartridge. I don't think the use of the word "round" means much.
I hate gun terminology. I just mean that a live, meant for firing complete bullet being introduced to the scene is not necessary for the incident to have occurred.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:25 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I hate gun terminology. I just mean that a live, meant for firing complete bullet being introduced to the scene is not necessary for the incident to have occurred.
Ackchyually...

In all seriousness though, me too. I'm not familiar with guns or anything, so learning the terminology would be useless for me. I get corrected all the time.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:28 AM   #106
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Oh know it, I just hate it. 20 years military and a gun owner. But everything is "champagne not sparkling wine except on Tuesdays when the moon is full then it's technically an arachnid" when you're talking guns.

All I'm saying is just because there was no shooty-shooty on top of the bang-bangy in the boom-boomy that doesn't mean can't still hurt or kill someone.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:31 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Dumb All Over View Post
I'm now thinking this is a rare case of assisted suicide by the conspiratorial actions of a Director of Photography and an Assistant Props Manager.
That's enough out of you, go crawl back in your hole!
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:35 AM   #108
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Baldwin tweets:
Quote:
“Rust” star and producer Alec Baldwin, who discharged the prop gun that killed the film’s director of photography and injured its director, says he’s “fully cooperating with the police investigation” into the incident.
https://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...dwin-statement

No new details about what happened.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:36 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I saw the articles and posts, and rolled my eyes. Alec, as has come out now, holds no responsibility for this incident. Although, look at the source. It's Fox News. They're still mad Alec made fun of Trump. Imagine being so heartless that you try to score a "gotcha" after an accident that killed a 42 year old woman? I'd be ashamed.
I don't expect a lot of people to give Baldwin a pass in this case (the officer he was referring to was later exonerated). So, people are just going to say it's fair play to judge him just as quickly. Just like he apparently judged Cheney for his hunting accident.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. In the age of Twitter, anyway.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:36 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't expect a lot of people to give Baldwin a pass in this case (the officer he was referring to was later exonerated). So, people are just going to say it's fair play to judge him just as quickly. Just like he apparently judged Cheney for his hunting accident.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. In the age of Twitter, anyway.
Yeah as long as you everything is a sword to you, that makes sense.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:37 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
All I'm saying is just because there was no shooty-shooty on top of the bang-bangy in the boom-boomy you can still hurt or kill someone.
Originally Posted by Rallo Tubbs
Bang-Bang, Boom-Boom, that thing's fully operational!
Good to know that even people with experience with guns don't all speak the same language at times.

I can't imagine having to get on the set again after something like this happens. I wonder what they'll do.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:39 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I don't expect a lot of people to give Baldwin a pass in this case (the officer he was referring to was later exonerated). So, people are just going to say it's fair play to judge him just as quickly. Just like he apparently judged Cheney for his hunting accident.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. In the age of Twitter, anyway.
Cheney knew he was walking around with a loaded gun, that's a bit different don't you think?
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:41 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Cheney knew he was walking around with a loaded gun, that's a bit different don't you think?
Yes but there's dishonest comparisons to made... oh wait I'm sorry "that people are saying *wink wink*"
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:43 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Good to know that even people with experience with guns don't all speak the same language at times.

I can't imagine having to get on the set again after something like this happens. I wonder what they'll do.
My dad and I used to refer to shotgun shells as bullets at sporting clays matches. It was just an inside joke, and to see how many anally retentive shooters were present. The answer was many.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:44 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Cheney knew he was walking around with a loaded gun, that's a bit different don't you think?
You have to admit that the tweets are pretty ironic when looking at the current situation. People are just as justified as he was in rushing to condemnation, imo.

We need to see a full investigation to know what really happened. Right now a whole lot is just speculation.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:48 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You have to admit that the tweets are pretty ironic when looking at the current situation. People are just as justified as he was in rushing to condemnation, imo.

We need to see a full investigation to know what really happened. Right now a whole lot is just speculation.
If you view the tragic death of this woman due to incompetence on a movie scene as a situation you're happy to exploit for little more than political purposes, then keep going.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:50 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
If you view the tragic death of this woman due to incompetence on a movie scene as a situation you're happy to exploit for little more than political purposes, then keep going.
I didn't write the article, bro. Complain to FOX.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:54 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
I didn't write the article, bro. Complain to FOX.
You found it, posted it, linked to it, and have supported it in multiple posts.

I'm also not complaining. I'm mocking the thought process that concluded now is a good time to make false comparisons in a vain attempt at a "gotcha!"

None of us can imagine what this feels like and what he's going through. Republicans, Fox, and the entirety of the GOP tell us after every mother ******* mass shooting that "now isn't the time to talk about it. It's time for healing", but they're the first ones to **** on someone who is going through what is arguably the hardest thing anyone would have to deal with for no better reason than political differences.

It's distasteful, it's hypocritical, and it's pathetic, what Fox is doing. Why you would support that is beyond me.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 10:56 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
You found it, posted it, linked to it, and have supported it in multiple posts.

I'm also not complaining. I'm mocking the thought process that concluded now is a good time to make false comparisons in a vain attempt at a "gotcha!"

None of us can imagine what this feels like and what he's going through. Republicans, Fox, and the entirety of the GOP tell us after every mother ******* mass shooting that "now isn't the time to talk about it. It's time for healing", but they're the first ones to **** on someone who is going through what is arguably the hardest thing anyone would have to deal with for no better reason than political differences.

It's distasteful, it's hypocritical, and it's pathetic, what Fox is doing. Why you would support that is beyond me.
You must have missed my first post in the thread, from page 1:

Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
This is horrible. I mean, aside from the dead woman, I can't even imagine the emotional toll this will have on Baldwin. Forget about career implications.

The hate and clowning he is going to get over this will be legendary. Just the memes alone will be devastating.
So, you can clearly see where my reference to the FOX article makes sense.
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Old 22nd October 2021, 11:27 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Warp12 View Post
You must have missed my first post in the thread, from page 1:

So, you can clearly see where my reference to the FOX article makes sense.
It would have made sense if you referenced that post when sharing the article, but whatever.

I don't think there's an appropriate time to clown in this situation. No one died in Cheney's scenario, and I'm not familiar with the other incident that you posted Alec's tweet about. I'm more than happy to discuss how something like this happened, or what they'll do after, but taking a **** on Alec right now just to score some political points is tasteless. Sharing it is also tasteless, but that's just if you ask me.
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