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Old 21st November 2021, 07:55 PM   #1
Meadmaker
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Looting at California Nordstrom's

What the hell?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/californi...looters-insane


For those who hate having to click. (I know I can't stand it when people post links and just expect people to follow them.)

About 80 people in about 25 or so cars simultaneously arrived at Nordstrom's in Walnut Creek, California, rushed into the store, grabbed what they could in about one minute, and fled away.

The mind boggles.


There were a few arrests.
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Old 21st November 2021, 08:05 PM   #2
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Nordstroms is still in business? Huh. I guess some people in their late eighties can still drive themselves places.
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Old 21st November 2021, 08:26 PM   #3
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Same thing happened in Loius Vitton (spelling I know) same day in San Francisco, or maybe the day before. In fact many of these have happened in the past few days.

That is what happens when you lower crimes from felony to misdemeanors for political reasons. To be more clear, this was done for political correctness, as minorities were being arrested too often for these crimes. The solution was to lessen the punishment.

I have linked to this many times here but am too tired to do so today. This is going on all over the country. Punishment is lessened for political reasons and crime rates rise.
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Old 21st November 2021, 08:26 PM   #4
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I remember seeing about a half dozon people grab a rack of dresses and run out of Datons department store back in the 90's. But, Wow that must have been some big gang. You had 80 people running through the store dozens of people with getaway cars and dozens more creating chaos though the city in order to tangle up the police. I hardly see how that many people could have made more than minimum wage for this caper. I can't wait to see the movie when it comes out though.

This is a variation of various woman gangs that used to clean up department stores during the turn of the century filling the stores and tying up clerks so they cant watch the store and picking it clean. I guess it was quite a big then back then too.
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Old 21st November 2021, 08:29 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
What the hell?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/californi...looters-insane


For those who hate having to click. (I know I can't stand it when people post links and just expect people to follow them.)

About 80 people in about 25 or so cars simultaneously arrived at Nordstrom's in Walnut Creek, California, rushed into the store, grabbed what they could in about one minute, and fled away.

The mind boggles.


There were a few arrests.
We're angry about the Rittenhouse verdict. What else are we suppose to do?
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Old 21st November 2021, 08:32 PM   #6
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That is a very coordinated effort for a "looting".
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Old 21st November 2021, 08:50 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
That is what happens when you lower crimes from felony to misdemeanors for political reasons.
Surely this is a felony, for at least some of the people, depending on how much they stole?

Actually, come to think of it, it shouldn't matter. Even if one of the looters stole a misdemeanor amount, they were engaged in a conspiracy to commit some seriously large scale theft, hence a felony.


And yes, I saw the story about the Union Square attacks the night before.

This is some seriously bad stuff going down. I would hope the law enforcement agencies are going to treat this as something a bit more serious than shoplifiting.
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Old 21st November 2021, 09:08 PM   #8
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It seems it wasn't just one other attack at Union Square. I have some catching up to do. Lots of mass thefts in San Francisco this weekend.

https://www.latimes.com/california/s...grab-robberies
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Old 21st November 2021, 09:12 PM   #9
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Just wait until Black Friday. (this week, already?) The stores will be set up perfectly for that kind of thing, and I think now that people are getting more blatant it will be really seriously bad this time around.

Unless the stores get pro-active to prevent this sort of thing. I see some doing it but it's the ones that don't that will have the problems, of course.
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Old 21st November 2021, 09:18 PM   #10
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I'm curious about the shoplifting economy. What happens to the goods stolen? Do they get sold at flea markets? Or only to the shoplifters' own acquaintances? Is there a network of fences? Do they target specific goods, or just grab what they can and hope it sells? Do they get advance orders like "I'm looking to buy fifty pairs of flowered capri pants, get 'em for me"? Does anyone keep track of what's selling, and for what prices, and plan acquisitions accordingly?
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Old 21st November 2021, 10:07 PM   #11
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Defund the police!

We're getting a lot of brazen crimes in SF these days. For example, car break ins in broad daylight right in front of tables of people outside eating brunch. If anyone tries to take video, shots are fired.
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Old 21st November 2021, 10:12 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Defund the police!

We're getting a lot of brazen crimes in SF these days. For example, car break ins in broad daylight right in front of tables of people outside eating brunch. If anyone tries to take video, shots are fired.
How much of a police State would be necessary to prevent something like this?
It's not like they are going to get away with this, police reform or not.
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Old 21st November 2021, 10:19 PM   #13
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80 people is a lot to coordinate. Do they have like a looter discord or something? I don't even know 80 people, I don't think. Probably most of them are not looters, either. Where do you find 80 looters that can be so organized? I can't find a kid to cut my grass in the summer.
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Old 21st November 2021, 10:23 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
80 people is a lot to coordinate. Do they have like a looter discord or something? I don't even know 80 people, I don't think. Probably most of them are not looters, either. Where do you find 80 looters that can be so organized? I can't find a kid to cut my grass in the summer.
Their HR department is better than mine.
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Old 21st November 2021, 10:33 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
80 people is a lot to coordinate. Do they have like a looter discord or something? I don't even know 80 people, I don't think. Probably most of them are not looters, either. Where do you find 80 looters that can be so organized? I can't find a kid to cut my grass in the summer.
Well that is what strikes me as so serious about this incident, or should I say these incidents, because several happened prior to Saturday night's Nordstrom attack.


A lot of us have discussed various conspiracy theories here, and elsewhere, over the years, and the CT believers always have answers for everything. The evidence is all faked. They are lying. Blah, blah, blah, all the same, The one common thread that runs through the theories is that by they time you enlist everyone involved in faking the evidence, you need a huge number of conspirators.

Most of us follow the law. If asked to join in some criminal enterprise, we would pretty much all say no. In fact, some of us would go farther. Upon being asked to commit a crime, we would not merely say no to participation, some of us would alert authorities to the fact that a crime was imminent. Therefore, when a conspiracy theory crops up that would require 100 conspirators working together, we know it's unrealistic because you can't get 100 people to act together to break the law and not report the impending criminal activity.

And yet, that's exactly what happened. Not 100, but possibly 80. Possibly on review of the videos, that number will be revised downward, but from just the video that has been made public so far, we can tell it is a lot.

This is bad.

It means that someone was able to recruit that many people to commit crime together, and no one tipped off the police that it would happen. That's scary. That should not be possible.

I suppose we shall see how the investigation goes. I hope that they will pour a lot of resources into examining those videos, making every last arrest they can, and throwing the book at the people they can identify.
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Old 21st November 2021, 10:37 PM   #16
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I would argue that the coordination probably led to less risk of violence and property damage.
As far as we know, the damage is limited to the stolen goods - hardly irreplaceable.

And with so many people involved, it won't be hard to find out who they are.
Now, if they all manage to successfully play the "prisoner's dilemma", that would be impressive.
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Old 21st November 2021, 10:40 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
I would argue that the coordination probably led to less risk of violence and property damage.
As far as we know, the damage is limited to the stolen goods - hardly irreplaceable.
Frisco has concealed carry, I think? Bodes yet iller, when someone goes all Rittenhouse because looters are storming the doors.
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Old 21st November 2021, 10:45 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
80 people is a lot to coordinate. Do they have like a looter discord or something? I don't even know 80 people, I don't think. Probably most of them are not looters, either. Where do you find 80 looters that can be so organized? I can't find a kid to cut my grass in the summer.
My guess is that it was organised in 4chan or some other dark pit of the internet.
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Old 21st November 2021, 11:54 PM   #19
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If I saw all these cars lined up and I had my knife on me. Oh, man, I'd probably... wonder why I was carrying a knife, and just go home.
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Old 21st November 2021, 11:56 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
That is what happens when you lower crimes from felony to misdemeanors for political reasons. To be more clear, this was done for political correctness, as minorities were being arrested too often for these crimes. The solution was to lessen the punishment.
Marc Kleinman had a good description of the US criminal justice system: "It's like an abusive and neglectful parent: it punishes too much and not enough." The solution is to reduce the punishment, but punish quickly and consistently.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 12:21 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Marc Kleinman had a good description of the US criminal justice system: "It's like an abusive and neglectful parent: it punishes too much and not enough." The solution is to reduce the punishment, but punish quickly and consistently.
more importantly: the punishment doesn't happens so long after the offense that there is no connect anymore.
and it allows you to get out for less if you just admit you did it.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 12:35 AM   #22
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Meanwhile, two more stores hit on Sunday, a jewelry store in a mall and.....a Lululemon store?

People would go to the effort of a flash mob theft for a Lululemon store?
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Old 22nd November 2021, 01:10 AM   #23
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The shops should use this as advertisment.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 01:16 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
What the hell?

https://www.foxnews.com/us/californi...looters-insane


For those who hate having to click. (I know I can't stand it when people post links and just expect people to follow them.)

About 80 people in about 25 or so cars simultaneously arrived at Nordstrom's in Walnut Creek, California, rushed into the store, grabbed what they could in about one minute, and fled away.

The mind boggles.


There were a few arrests.
There will be more. A secret is something only one person knows. Someone will talk. Someone always talks. Friendship and loyalty have a tendency to cease at the jailhouse door.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 01:25 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Same thing happened in Loius Vitton (spelling I know) same day in San Francisco, or maybe the day before. In fact many of these have happened in the past few days.

That is what happens when you lower crimes from felony to misdemeanors for political reasons.
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but stealing a shirt from Nordstrom's was never a felony.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 02:00 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm curious about the shoplifting economy. What happens to the goods stolen? Do they get sold at flea markets?
I dunno about America, but an enormous amount of stolen good in NZ are sold on Facebook Marketplace.

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
My guess is that it was organised in 4chan or some other dark pit of the internet.
I'd bet on Discord.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 02:08 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
That is what happens when you lower crimes from felony to misdemeanors for political reasons. To be more clear, this was done for political correctness, as minorities were being arrested too often for these crimes. The solution was to lessen the punishment.
I assume you'll be supporting this assertion with actual evidence?

Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
We're angry about the Rittenhouse verdict. What else are we suppose to do?
I assume you'll be supporting this assertion with actual evidence?
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Old 22nd November 2021, 02:17 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm curious about the shoplifting economy. What happens to the goods stolen? Do they get sold at flea markets? Or only to the shoplifters' own acquaintances? Is there a network of fences? Do they target specific goods, or just grab what they can and hope it sells? Do they get advance orders like "I'm looking to buy fifty pairs of flowered capri pants, get 'em for me"? Does anyone keep track of what's selling, and for what prices, and plan acquisitions accordingly?
eBay, America's fence.
Though shoplifting and theft to order is a thing.
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As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 02:39 AM   #29
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Excerpt from visionary gang leader Cyrus's speech to 100s of gang delegates from all over New York City:

Can you count suckers?
I say the future is ours
If you can count.


You’re standing right now
with nine delegates from 100 gangs.
And there’s over 100 more.
That’s 20,000 hard-core members.
Forty thousand, counting affiliates,
and 20,000 more,
not organized but ready to fight.
Sixty thousand soldiers.
Now, there ain’t but 20,000 police
in the whole town. Can you dig it?
Can you dig it?
– Can you dig it?
– Yeah!


The Warriors, 1979 movie.

Great video of the whole speech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH1v...AjaxtheWarrior
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Old 22nd November 2021, 03:41 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
My guess is that it was organised in 4chan or some other dark pit of the internet.
Yeah, I don't think this really would've taken that much organization or coordination in the traditional sense to pull off. "Whoever wants in, we're rushing Nordstrom's at 530PM." Everybody enters the store together at once to overwhelm loss-prevention measures but that's where the cooperation begins and ends - once you're in the store, it's every man for himself. Grab whatever you can within a few seconds or so, and escape on your own to wherever you choose. Nobody knows anyone, so nobody is responsible for anyone else's safety or success; if you show up late and miss out, sucks to be you. If you get too greedy and take too long and get nabbed, sucks to be you. If the cops arrive quickly and pick you out of the crowd leaving the store to run after, sucks to be you. A moment of transient risk/reward social cooperation.

There's no way to tell of course, but it's even possible that some shoppers already in the store who were completely ignorant of the flash-theft plan saw what was happening and decided in the moment to take advantage for themselves.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 04:12 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
eBay, America's fence.
Though shoplifting and theft to order is a thing.
In the mid-80s because of two places I lived I was "embedded" with the new underclass Thatcher was creating, certainly back then people did "place an order" with people shoplifting. And it was completely blatant and not a secret.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 06:09 AM   #32
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Oh noes property damage, one of the things that make trolls suddenly remember society has rules. Better have the police murder some more black people in the streets to even it out.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 06:34 AM   #33
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CNN reporting that heavily armed children from Illinois are en route.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 07:02 AM   #34
zooterkin
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
Excerpt from visionary gang leader Cyrus's speech to 100s of gang delegates from all over New York City:

Can you count suckers?
I say the future is ours
If you can count.


You’re standing right now
with nine delegates from 100 gangs.
And there’s over 100 more.
That’s 20,000 hard-core members.
Forty thousand, counting affiliates,
and 20,000 more,
not organized but ready to fight.
Sixty thousand soldiers.
Now, there ain’t but 20,000 police
in the whole town. Can you dig it?
Can you dig it?
– Can you dig it?
– Yeah!


The Warriors, 1979 movie.

Great video of the whole speech:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH1v...AjaxtheWarrior
How did that work out?
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Old 22nd November 2021, 07:48 AM   #35
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I think this must be what mgidm86 was referring to:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/repeated-...curity-experts

Quote:
Some security experts are pointing to California’s laws that are intended to reduce costs of incarceration as to why there is an increase in such crimes, ABC 10 reported. Shoplifting charges regarding the theft of $950 or less were lowered from felonies to misdemeanors under Proposition 47 in 2014. Stores also often have no-chase policies of shoplifters.
Honestly, I think that's an ok law, especially for a first offense. Maybe 950 is too high, but petty theft should not be a felony.


However, this wave of thefts over this weekend wasn't petty theft. I just hope prosecutors and police see what a danger this is, and really bring the hammer down as best they can. The individuals caught should be charged with whatever the prosecutors think they can make stick, and a lot of effort should be put into tracking down participants who think that as long as they get off the property without being nabbed they are safe. These incidents spell major trouble, and the authorities really need to make sure they are stopped as soon as possible.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 07:55 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Frisco has concealed carry, I think? Bodes yet iller, when someone goes all Rittenhouse because looters are storming the doors.
San Francisco it the nations leader in being anti-gun. They don't even have a gun shop any more, the cops have to go out of town to get equipped. So, definitely NOT 'shall issue'.
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Last edited by casebro; 22nd November 2021 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 07:56 AM   #37
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Do I need to point out that this was never a thing until organized crime saw this as a bright new profit center with their ability to move the contraband thanks to their existing networks?


This is not the result of progressive prosecutors this is about criminals using modern social media tech to coordinate new crimes.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 08:03 AM   #38
casebro
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
I think this must be what mgidm86 was referring to:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/repeated-...curity-experts



Honestly, I think that's an ok law, especially for a first offense. Maybe 950 is too high, but petty theft should not be a felony.


However, this wave of thefts over this weekend wasn't petty theft. I just hope prosecutors and police see what a danger this is, and really bring the hammer down as best they can. The individuals caught should be charged with whatever the prosecutors think they can make stick, and a lot of effort should be put into tracking down participants who think that as long as they get off the property without being nabbed they are safe. These incidents spell major trouble, and the authorities really need to make sure they are stopped as soon as possible.
In California, showing intent to shoplift is considered a felony, "commercial burglary". Like hooks sewn inside your coat. But having a driver waiting in a get away car? I bet the thieves were wearing Covid masks, but cars have license plates.

I wish the authorities would dig into the BLM "conspiracy to commit" as they did for the "Capital Insurrection". Conspiring to block traffic is a felony too. Lots of evidence in emails I bet.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 08:10 AM   #39
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Clothes? Ugh. Call me when someone organises a raid on a place that stocks the new Playstation.
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Old 22nd November 2021, 08:54 AM   #40
Thermal
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
San Francisco it the nations leader in being anti-gun. They don't even have a gun shop any more, the cops have to go out of town to get equipped. So, definitely NOT 'shall issue'.
Hey, I live in a 'No ******* Way Will We Issue' State. No gun shops for 20 miles of me, and that's only because there happens to be a Dick's and Bass Pro in the shopping centers. San Fran can actually carry, if not particularly easily.
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