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Old 16th April 2018, 12:16 AM   #321
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Who were the "very powerful patrons" in Rochdale, Rotherham, etc.?

Let's start over. I want to make sure we both agree with the basis, in a specific situation, for even having to have an excuse. Forget for the time being whether or not you agree with me that it is an excuse.


* Assume for sake of argument that there was a top down order to protect (not investigate) a certain illegal trade. (Seriously, just assume it for half a second.)

* Also assume several precincts are caught red handed protecting that illegal trade. (This one should be easy.)

You understand that they cannot use the truth in that situation and say "we did not investigate because of an order from way higher up"?


If your answer is not "Yes, I understand that." then there is no point in even having a discussion about the evidence.



(Also, it should be noted that the second bullet point (being caught not investigating) isn't even when an excuse would be needed. The excuse is needed long before that because the people at the bottom of the pyramid would not be given the truth for obvious reasons; and the people near the bottom, who might have an inkling of the truth, like to have a plausible excuse as well so they sleep better at night. So the "we don't investigate because it would appear racist" becomes ingrained in the police force long before the scandal breaks. Coincidentally making it that much hard to debunk.)
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Old 16th April 2018, 01:16 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
I think that would depend on what you'd view a "patron" as. In the case of Rotherham it'd probably be the Labour party, and by extension the Rotherham Council, who didn't want to make waves among the British Pakistani community because they vote for them.
Which would be a serious use of the word "patron."
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Old 16th April 2018, 01:51 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
Let's start over. I want to make sure we both agree with the basis, in a specific situation, for even having to have an excuse. Forget for the time being whether or not you agree with me that it is an excuse.

* Assume for sake of argument that there was a top down order to protect (not investigate) a certain illegal trade. (Seriously, just assume it for half a second.)

* Also assume several precincts are caught red handed protecting that illegal trade. (This one should be easy.)

You understand that they cannot use the truth in that situation and say "we did not investigate because of an order from way higher up"?

If your answer is not "Yes, I understand that." then there is no point in even having a discussion about the evidence.

(Also, it should be noted that the second bullet point (being caught not investigating) isn't even when an excuse would be needed. The excuse is needed long before that because the people at the bottom of the pyramid would not be given the truth for obvious reasons; and the people near the bottom, who might have an inkling of the truth, like to have a plausible excuse as well so they sleep better at night. So the "we don't investigate because it would appear racist" becomes ingrained in the police force long before the scandal breaks. Coincidentally making it that much hard to debunk.)
I don't accept your first point as anything other than a paranoid conspiracy theory, therefore your second point is moot.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 16th April 2018 at 01:52 AM.
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Old 16th April 2018, 02:43 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
I don't accept your first point as anything other than a paranoid conspiracy theory
Is your unwillingness to consider this a result of your own research, or simply something that doesn't sound right, and which therefore must be wrong?
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Old 16th April 2018, 03:02 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Is your unwillingness to consider this a result of your own research, or simply something that doesn't sound right, and which therefore must be wrong?
I don't buy his claim of some grand historic conspiracy, no. I have no interest in debating some chain of "reasoning" that assumes that to be true.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 16th April 2018 at 03:05 AM.
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Old 16th April 2018, 03:22 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
I don't buy his claim of some grand historic conspiracy, no. I have no interest in debating some chain of "reasoning" that assumes that to be true.
That's what I thought.
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Old 16th April 2018, 07:01 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
That's what I thought.
It seems reasonable to me to very seriously doubt that This Is The End's UK version of pizzagate is real. The claim is not only that there's a secret ring of people in The Establishment abusing kids and ordering the police not to investigate their crimes, but they also prevent the police from investigating all other instances of pedophile rings because, we are asked to imagine, they don't just want to abuse kids themselves, they want others to do the same.

It's basically the child abuse Illuminati. It sounds crazy to me and I can't see why anyone else would buy it without a scrap of evidence.

Even if we accept there are child abusers everywhere and even if there are rings of child abusers everywhere, the notion that there is an all-powerful super-ring which protects them all by ordering every constabulary nationwide not to investigate is a leap far beyond credibility.
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Old 16th April 2018, 07:08 AM   #328
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
It seems reasonable to me to very seriously doubt that This Is The End's UK version of pizzagate is real. The claim is not only that there's a secret ring of people in The Establishment abusing kids and ordering the police not to investigate their crimes, but they also prevent the police from investigating all other instances of pedophile rings because, we are asked to imagine, they don't just want to abuse kids themselves, they want others to do the same.
There are numerous secret 'rings', not just one. That's beyond any question as it has been established. Some, e.g. the Catholic Church, encompassed tens of thousands of abusers (and indeed still do). Many rings have been uncovered and other claims are supported by large amounts of evidence. Other claims, of course, have been shown to be false.

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
It's basically the child abuse Illuminati. It sounds crazy to me and I can't see why anyone else would buy it without a scrap of evidence.
What has Illuminati got to do with anything?

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Even if we accept there are child abusers everywhere and even if there are rings of child abusers everywhere, the notion that there is an all-powerful super-ring which protects them all by ordering every constabulary nationwide not to investigate is a leap far beyond credibility.
I never suggested there was. If This Is The End did then I disagree with him. The point is, such rings involving people in authority / with influence have been proven to exist
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Old 16th April 2018, 07:12 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
...I never suggested there was. If This Is The End did then I disagree with him.
Information Analyst disagrees similarly, which is why I was surprised you were needling him about it.
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Old 16th April 2018, 07:16 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
Information Analyst disagrees similarly, which is why I was surprised you were needling him about it.
I have no idea what This Is The End believes, but his post simply talked about 'orders from the top'. Now unless you know something I don't, it's a crazy leap to go from that, which has been proven factually correct in many cases, to 'It's the Illuminati!'
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Old 16th April 2018, 09:38 AM   #331
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I have no idea what This Is The End believes, but his post simply talked about 'orders from the top'...
This is The End appears to believe this:

Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
... The UK in general has been complicit with massive amounts of readily available sex with young teenagers for at least 100 years. [...] it is barely even recognized as a bad thing.
Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
... These people do not give two ***** about political correctness. They are just using it as an excuse to allow the child sex mills to flourish.

It's a British tradition that should have ended decades ago.
Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
First of all, just go back a couple decades before "PC Culture" even existed. This business of having young teenage kids (12 to 14) available as a sexual commodity was just as huge. And just as protected.

Do you seriously think they are now currently actually worried about this PC crap or that they were just using it as a convenient excuse for orders that were sent from the top down that this was a protected, hands off, racket?

It is clearly an excuse that has nothing at all to do with the actual reasons for the protection of this sex trade industry.
So, these "orders from the top down" are protecting a racket. In this conspiracy theory, these Pakistani immigrant gangs were not acting on their own initiative. They were either the henchmen or perhaps the customers of a "racket" controlled by people at the top of the British establishment.

Quote:
... Now unless you know something I don't, it's a crazy leap to go from that, which has been proven factually correct in many cases, to 'It's the Illuminati!'
My comparison to the Illuminati is that it's an enormous, all-controlling conspiracy which doesn't exist. Can you give us some examples of the many cases of orders from the top down to the police to keep their hands off a protected racket, which have been proven factually correct?

I wish people would take a bit more care about what claims it is that they are actually supporting here. These cases are absolutely awful enough without a whole bunch of entirely unevidenced innuendo about some grand conspiracy where the British establishment runs a nationwide chain of underage slave brothels with the complicity of the police because allegedly it's some kind of national tradition. It's nuts.
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