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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 14th April 2018, 04:25 PM   #2841
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
And she refuses to be educated. Perhaps this from the American Civil Liberties Union will help her understand a very simple fact that has eluded her so far (but I rather doubt it):


https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speec...aws-dont-exist

Washington State has no criminal defamation law. It is considered a civil matter. If history is any indication, Vixen will ignore this and continue to claim that Knox is a felon in the US.
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. You claim to be a 'west coast liberal' yet you seem unaware Trump himself might be staring at 'Obstruction of Justice' charges if he fires Mueller.

Admit it it, such a felony DOES exist.
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Old 14th April 2018, 04:34 PM   #2842
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. You claim to be a 'west coast liberal' yet you seem unaware Trump himself might be staring at 'Obstruction of Justice' charges if he fires Mueller.

Admit it it, such a felony DOES exist.
LOL. I never said obstruction of justice doesn't exist. What doesn't exist are federal defamation laws as the links I've provided prove. Try harder. Your desperation is showing.

scrape...scrape...scrape....
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Old 14th April 2018, 04:39 PM   #2843
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Quote:
But the other main barrier is the inconvenient fact that there is no federal libel law for President Trump to bully Congress to change. Libel cases are based on state laws, which neither the president nor Congress has control over because of our nation’s federalist system.
Now Vixen thinks she knows more about US libel/defamation laws than the ACLU. Why am I not surprised?
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Old 14th April 2018, 05:03 PM   #2844
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Now Vixen thinks she knows more about US libel/defamation laws than the ACLU. Why am I not surprised?
Just like the nutters believe they know more about forensic-DNA than every third party expert in the world.
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Old 14th April 2018, 05:14 PM   #2845
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I'm surprised TJMK and the few remaining guilter fanatics are not now claiming that Sollecito and Gumbel have actually apologized to Mignini and admitted their book lied. As proof, they'll present the "you've been told umpteen times" and "It's well known/common knowledge" evidence as proof.
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Old 14th April 2018, 05:26 PM   #2846
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. You claim to be a 'west coast liberal' yet you seem unaware Trump himself might be staring at 'Obstruction of Justice' charges if he fires Mueller.

Admit it it, such a felony DOES exist.
And Amanda's conviction for callunia ISN'T Obstruction of Justice no matter how many times you say it is.

Amanda isn't considered a felon ANYWHERE. NOT EVEN IN ITALY.

Give it up Vixen.
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Old 14th April 2018, 05:27 PM   #2847
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We do know the ECHR will NEVER overturn the Calunnia felony.

The application was made prematurely in 2013. It is now 2018 and the ECHR are still awaiting evidence from Dalla Vedova he complained at the time through the correct channels.

It hasn't even been admitted yet.

I expect it will soon time out.
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Old 14th April 2018, 05:28 PM   #2848
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
And Amanda's conviction for callunia ISN'T Obstruction of Justice no matter how many times you say it is.

Amanda isn't considered a felon ANYWHERE. NOT EVEN IN ITALY.

Give it up Vixen.
Then why was she given THREE years for it?
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Old 14th April 2018, 05:59 PM   #2849
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Then why was she given THREE years for it?
Any word on that French libel case where the Beckham's got a pay out yet?
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Old 14th April 2018, 06:07 PM   #2850
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
We do know the ECHR will NEVER overturn the Calunnia felony.

The application was made prematurely in 2013. It is now 2018 and the ECHR are still awaiting evidence from Dalla Vedova he complained at the time through the correct channels.

It hasn't even been admitted yet.

I expect it will soon time out.
Wow. Denial runs deep. May, 2016:

Quote:
The European Court of Human Rights has accepted a case submitted by Amanda Knox's lawyers over rights violations she allegedly suffered at the hands of Italian authorities during the 2007 investigation into the murder of British student Meredith Kercher.
https://www.thelocal.it/20160518/ama...f-human-rights

Quote:
The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) has accepted an appeal against Italy by Amanda Knox, the American woman acquitted last year by Italy's highest court, the Cassation Court, of being involved in the murder of British exchange student Meredith Kercher in Perugia in 2007, according to a report by Italian news agency ANSA.
https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/eu...knox-case.html


I know this is a complete waste of time but I still have to do it: please provide evidence that "the ECHR are still awaiting evidence from Dalla Vedova he complained at the time through the correct channels". And "evidence" from the same source that declared 6 months ago that RS and Gumbel's apology to Mignini is coming any day is not acceptable.
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Old 14th April 2018, 06:10 PM   #2851
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
We do know the ECHR will NEVER overturn the Calunnia felony.
No, "we" don't know that.
Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The application was made prematurely in 2013. It is now 2018 and the ECHR are still awaiting evidence from Dalla Vedova he complained at the time through the correct channels.

It hasn't even been admitted yet.

I expect it will soon time out.
How many times have "we" been promised something will come out soon?

We're still waiting for Peter Quennell's prediction which came out when Mignini's defamation case against RS and AG fell apart.

It's all part of the fantasy you advance.
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Old 14th April 2018, 06:28 PM   #2852
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
Any word on that French libel case where the Beckham's got a pay out yet?
I did a google search on that and nothing came up except a couple other suits by the Beckhams. One had to do with a prostitute. The Beckhams lost that one. The other had to do with a soccer stadium in Miami. Beckham lost that one, too. No mention anywhere of a lawsuit over boutiques in France. Of course, these both had to do with lawsuits in the US so there may have been one in France that didn't come up. Still, it's not OUR job to prove Vixen's claims; it's HERS. Something she has difficulty understanding.
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Old 14th April 2018, 06:35 PM   #2853
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I did a google search on that and nothing came up except a couple other suits by the Beckhams. One had to do with a prostitute. The Beckhams lost that one. The other had to do with a soccer stadium in Miami. Beckham lost that one, too. No mention anywhere of a lawsuit over boutiques in France. Of course, these both had to do with lawsuits in the US so there may have been one in France that didn't come up. Still, it's not OUR job to prove Vixen's claims; it's HERS. Something she has difficulty understanding.
I did the same search with the same results. Vixen is probably referring to the case where Victoria Beckham got sued by a chain of sports shops for bad mouthing them.

Nothing Vixen says is ever accurate in my experience across many different threads. The very fact that she believes Amanda to be guilty is almost enough on its own to believe otherwise.
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Old 14th April 2018, 06:56 PM   #2854
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Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
I did the same search with the same results. Vixen is probably referring to the case where Victoria Beckham got sued by a chain of sports shops for bad mouthing them.

Nothing Vixen says is ever accurate in my experience across many different threads. The very fact that she believes Amanda to be guilty is almost enough on its own to believe otherwise.
Well, she did say that Raffaele was left handed..... oh wait.

Ok, she did post a pic of the window below Filomena's second-storey window, saying that the lower window hadn't had any bars over it.... oh wait, the pic showed it did.

Never mind.
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Old 14th April 2018, 07:05 PM   #2855
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Well, she did say that Raffaele was left handed..... oh wait.

Ok, she did post a pic of the window below Filomena's second-storey window, saying that the lower window hadn't had any bars over it.... oh wait, the pic showed it did.

Never mind.
Well, she did say that Raffaele had a Naparijini jacket and a white cap with a red stripe and that the 2011 verdict was put off for 6 weeks while Bongiorno rested due to her pregnancy. Not to mention that federal defamation laws result in state prison sentences. Oh, wait. Never mind.

Last edited by Stacyhs; 14th April 2018 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 15th April 2018, 06:27 AM   #2856
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Well, she did say that Raffaele had a Naparijini jacket and a white cap with a red stripe and that the 2011 verdict was put off for 6 weeks while Bongiorno rested due to her pregnancy. Not to mention that federal defamation laws result in state prison sentences. Oh, wait. Never mind.
The break for Bongiorno was from 19 July 2009 to 14 Sept 2009. Do the math.

See picture of Raff recreating his 'night of the murder' get up.
Attached Images
File Type: jpeg knife.jpeg (27.2 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg Raffaele-Sollecito86-copia.jpg (92.6 KB, 3 views)
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Old 15th April 2018, 07:19 AM   #2857
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The break for Bongiorno was from 19 July 2009 to 14 Sept 2009. Do the math.
You do realize, don't you, that July-Sept 2009 was not part of the Hellmann trial? Just checking....

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
See picture of Raff recreating his 'night of the murder' get up.
In what way, shape or form does this "recreate" how you claimed Rudy Guede said the other intruder was?

In what way shape or form does this challenge the 2015 Supreme Court ruling that all that the prosecution ever "proved" was that (at best) AK and RS had been in the cottage after the murder and in a part of the cottage other than the murder room?

You have read the 2015 Supreme Court reason for acquittal, haven't you?
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Old 15th April 2018, 11:22 AM   #2858
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The break for Bongiorno was from 19 July 2009 to 14 Sept 2009. Do the math.

See picture of Raff recreating his 'night of the murder' get up.
ROTFLMAO! This is just pitiful! You claimed the verdict was delayed for 6 weeks due to Bongiorno being pregnant. Bongiorno wasn't even pregnant in 2009! She gave birth to her first child in 2011. The dates you quoted were for the scheduled summer break and had nothing to do with Bongiorno. Do the research.

As for the picture, are you now going to claim that's a Naparijini jacket and his cap has a red band?

Stop digging. That hole is so deep it's caving in on you.
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Old 15th April 2018, 08:39 PM   #2859
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Wow. Denial runs deep. May, 2016:


https://www.thelocal.it/20160518/ama...f-human-rights


https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/eu...knox-case.html


I know this is a complete waste of time but I still have to do it: please provide evidence that "the ECHR are still awaiting evidence from Dalla Vedova he complained at the time through the correct channels". And "evidence" from the same source that declared 6 months ago that RS and Gumbel's apology to Mignini is coming any day is not acceptable.
Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
No, "we" don't know that.


How many times have "we" been promised something will come out soon?

We're still waiting for Peter Quennell's prediction which came out when Mignini's defamation case against RS and AG fell apart.

It's all part of the fantasy you advance.
1. The guilters use inaccurate and misleading language to confuse readers.

The ECHR is not a court of appeal and does not "overturn" convictions.

The ECHR is - as its name asserts - a court that hears allegations of violations of human rights against member states of the Council of Europe. Italy is a member state of the Council of Europe.

According to Italian law and Constitution, a final judgment of the ECHR that a conviction by Italy has violated the European Convention of Human Rights under Article 6 (right to a fair trial) entitles the convicted person to request a revision trial. The revision trial must adhere to the European Convention of Human Rights and ECHR case-law. If the ECHR holds in Knox v. Italy that there was a violation of Article 6, this would lead to the alleged evidence of calunnia by Knox being inadmissible in the revision trial.

2. As the article* cited by Stacyhs notes:

"The European Court of Human Rights will now seek more information from the Italian government before the case is brought to trial, a process which could take several years."

So we must wait for the ECHR to obtain the information it seeks from Italy and for the case to come up for judgment, considering the many other cases before the ECHR.

*https://www.thelocal.it/20160518/ama...f-human-rights
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Old 16th April 2018, 03:39 AM   #2860
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
1. The guilters use inaccurate and misleading language to confuse readers.

The ECHR is not a court of appeal and does not "overturn" convictions.

The ECHR is - as its name asserts - a court that hears allegations of violations of human rights against member states of the Council of Europe. Italy is a member state of the Council of Europe.

According to Italian law and Constitution, a final judgment of the ECHR that a conviction by Italy has violated the European Convention of Human Rights under Article 6 (right to a fair trial) entitles the convicted person to request a revision trial. The revision trial must adhere to the European Convention of Human Rights and ECHR case-law. If the ECHR holds in Knox v. Italy that there was a violation of Article 6, this would lead to the alleged evidence of calunnia by Knox being inadmissible in the revision trial.

2. As the article* cited by Stacyhs notes:

"The European Court of Human Rights will now seek more information from the Italian government before the case is brought to trial, a process which could take several years."

So we must wait for the ECHR to obtain the information it seeks from Italy and for the case to come up for judgment, considering the many other cases before the ECHR.

*https://www.thelocal.it/20160518/ama...f-human-rights
How long have you been waiting, now, Numbers?

You are the guys falsely claiming her FELONY and CRIMINAL CONVICTION will be struck out.
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Old 16th April 2018, 04:01 AM   #2861
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How long have you been waiting, now, Numbers?

You are the guys falsely claiming her FELONY and CRIMINAL CONVICTION will be struck out.
There's no way to predict with 100% accuracy what a court will rule and how Italy will respond.

But not even guilters try to argue that her rights weren't violated during the interrogation, since they undeniably were.

Your greatest victory in this case is clutching a meaningless time-served token conviction that even your side admits you were lucky to get with human-rights violating tactics. Congratulations
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Old 16th April 2018, 05:56 AM   #2862
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Originally Posted by bagels View Post
There's no way to predict with 100% accuracy what a court will rule and how Italy will respond.

But not even guilters try to argue that her rights weren't violated during the interrogation, since they undeniably were.

Your greatest victory in this case is clutching a meaningless time-served token conviction that even your side admits you were lucky to get with human-rights violating tactics. Congratulations
The Italian courts, notably the Gemelli CSC panel, stated that Knox's rights under Italian law were violated during the Nov. 5/6 interrogation. The Hellmann appeal court and Boninsegna court decisions also indicated violations of her rights during the interrogation. Thus, the ECHR would rely on that CSC decision, as well as the other court decisions and the facts of the case, in reaching its judgment.

At some point, the ECHR will render its judgment. Cases do not "time out" in the ECHR system - there is no statute of limitations for human rights violations under the European Convention of Human Rights or ECHR case-law.

Cases routinely require years to reach judgment before the ECHR. The current back-log of pending applications, as of 31 March 2018, is 55,800, according to ECHR statistics.*

*https://www.echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=reports&c=
See: PDF "Pending cases"

The guilters rely on falsehoods because they have no valid arguments.

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Old 16th April 2018, 07:11 AM   #2863
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Originally Posted by bagels
There's no way to predict with 100% accuracy what a court will rule and how Italy will respond.

But not even guilters try to argue that her rights weren't violated during the interrogation, since they undeniably were.

Your greatest victory in this case is clutching a meaningless time-served token conviction that even your side admits you were lucky to get with human-rights violating tactics. Congratulations
Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
The Italian courts, notably the Gemelli CSC panel, stated that Knox's rights under Italian law were violated during the Nov. 5/6 interrogation. The Hellmann appeal court and Boninsegna court decisions also indicated violations of her rights during the interrogation. Thus, the ECHR would rely on that CSC decision, as well as the other court decisions and the facts of the case, in reaching its judgment.

At some point, the ECHR will render its judgment. Cases do not "time out" in the ECHR system - there is no statute of limitations for human rights violations under the European Convention of Human Rights or ECHR case-law.

Cases routinely require years to reach judgment before the ECHR. The current back-log of pending applications, as of 31 March 2018, is 55,800, according to ECHR statistics.*

*https://www.echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=reports&c=
See: PDF "Pending cases"

The guilters rely on falsehoods because they have no valid arguments.
Anyone remember the ten-day period recently when no one posted to this thread? Chief reason for that hiatus was that Vixen took some time off posting her tripe.

The most recent falsehood from Vixen is that she now attributes the July-Sept 2009 gap in sittings for the first trial to be because of Bongiorno's pregnancy. Don't let it stop the discussion that it was simply the normal summer recess of Perugian courts. Oh yes, Bongiorno was not pregnant!

Has Vixen ever even acknowledged and of her recent gaffs? (I can think of twice when she actually did..... but this last slew of falsehoods has not attracted one admission or one apology from her. Vixen just keeps going. We're going to reach the 50th Continuation at this rate.)
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Old 16th April 2018, 07:13 AM   #2864
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How long have you been waiting, now, Numbers?

You are the guys falsely claiming her FELONY and CRIMINAL CONVICTION will be struck out.
1. It's not a felony.

2. No one but you claims that ECHR can "strike out" a false conviction from a member state.

Do you not bother to read the posts?
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Old 16th April 2018, 07:21 AM   #2865
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How long have you been waiting, now, Numbers?

You are the guys falsely claiming her FELONY and CRIMINAL CONVICTION will be struck out.
How long have YOU been waiting for the apology that Peter Quennell said was coming? You know, he one that Pete said would prove that Giuliano Mignini's defamation lawsuit against Sollecito and Gumbel hadn't gone down in flames? The one that the judge on the criminal side of the issue simply threw out of court?

While you're at it, please produce the bleach receipts that one of the nutter guilt-sites promised years ago.
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Old 16th April 2018, 08:07 AM   #2866
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
1. It's not a felony.

2. No one but you claims that ECHR can "strike out" a false conviction from a member state.

Do you not bother to read the posts?
I trust this was a rhetorical question since immediately after Numbers wrote "The ECHR is not a court of appeal and does not "overturn" convictions." and "...entitles the convicted person to request a revision trial.", Vixen writes "You are the guys falsely claiming her FELONY and CRIMINAL CONVICTION will be struck out."

I suppose Vixen could be excused for misunderstanding what people here have been 'predicting' (not claiming) would happen. A favorable ECHR ruling would lead to a request for a revision trial, something Italy might decide against since all of it's evidence against Amanda would be inadmissible. This might lead to the calunnia conviction being thrown out. I think this is the basic expectation many of us hold, but it would be incorrect to suggest we are therefore assuming the ECHR will throw out the conviction. It could do no such thing as that's beyond it's charter. Only Italy can do that.
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Old 16th April 2018, 09:09 AM   #2867
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Anyone remember the ten-day period recently when no one posted to this thread? Chief reason for that hiatus was that Vixen took some time off posting her tripe.

The most recent falsehood from Vixen is that she now attributes the July-Sept 2009 gap in sittings for the first trial to be because of Bongiorno's pregnancy. Don't let it stop the discussion that it was simply the normal summer recess of Perugian courts. Oh yes, Bongiorno was not pregnant!

Has Vixen ever even acknowledged and of her recent gaffs? (I can think of twice when she actually did..... but this last slew of falsehoods has not attracted one admission or one apology from her. Vixen just keeps going. We're going to reach the 50th Continuation at this rate.)
More unethical than the refusal to admit error is the continuation of claiming falsehoods that are either totally unsupported by any evidence or actually disproven by evidence. This is the action of someone who is so deeply and hopelessly mired in their own bias bog that they have lost all objectivity.
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Old 16th April 2018, 09:17 AM   #2868
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Locard's principle applied to transfer of cocaine residue

The specifics of this link are probably not related to the present case. However, the general principle of how easy it is to transfer something that is sufficiently small is well illustrated, and that does relate to the case in question, in which the transfer of DNA is significant. The authors studied residues from cocaine using an immunologically base system, which they said was presumptive. "Shown in Table 1, tests resulted in 78% positives for cocaine substances on the external surfaces examined in this study; of 45 surfaces tested, 35 were positive for cocaine. Fuel pump buttons (for credit card authorization) caused 100% positive results (n = 10). Ten different service stations were tested. Similarly, ATM machines for cash withdrawal resulted in a 100% positive rate (n = 10 individual locations). From shopping carts, there were seven out of 10 positives (70%). Academic building entrance doors showed the lowest positive frequency at 30% (n = 10). Shopping mall entrance/exit doors tested positive in every instance (100%, n = 5)." More recent work suggests that if people who use a fuel pump, for example, transfer residue onto their hands, it may be detectable.
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Old 16th April 2018, 09:42 AM   #2869
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
How long have you been waiting, now, Numbers?

You are the guys falsely claiming her FELONY and CRIMINAL CONVICTION will be struck out.
When, and if, the ECHR rules in Knox's favor and Italy either reverses her calunnia conviction or a revision trial results in an acquittal, will you claim the ECHR judges are "bent" and/or "shills"? Will you claim the judges who reverse the conviction or acquit Knox are "bent" and/or "shills? Will you claim it was all orchestrated by the Mafia?

And will Quennell announce that the judges all illegally overstepped their authority?
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Old 16th April 2018, 10:13 AM   #2870
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
When, and if, the ECHR rules in Knox's favor and Italy either reverses her calunnia conviction or a revision trial results in an acquittal, will you claim the ECHR judges are "bent" and/or "shills"? Will you claim the judges who reverse the conviction or acquit Knox are "bent" and/or "shills? Will you claim it was all orchestrated by the Mafia?

And will Quennell announce that the judges all illegally overstepped their authority?
The Masons and Mafia made simultaneous tweets saying, "We got this."
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Old 16th April 2018, 10:17 AM   #2871
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Vixen, how's that search for evidence that the ECHR are still awaiting evidence from Dalla Vedova that he complained at the time through the correct channels?

I'll give you a hint: you'll find it in the same place you'll find proof that RS owned a Naparijini jacket, a cap with a red stripe, and that the summer recess of the Massei court was due to Bongiorno's pregnancy.
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Old 16th April 2018, 10:30 AM   #2872
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
I trust this was a rhetorical question since immediately after Numbers wrote "The ECHR is not a court of appeal and does not "overturn" convictions." and "...entitles the convicted person to request a revision trial.", Vixen writes "You are the guys falsely claiming her FELONY and CRIMINAL CONVICTION will be struck out."

I suppose Vixen could be excused for misunderstanding what people here have been 'predicting' (not claiming) would happen.

1. A favorable ECHR ruling would lead to a request for a revision trial,
2. something Italy might decide against since
3. all of it's evidence against Amanda would be inadmissible.
4. This might lead to the calunnia conviction being thrown out.

I think this is the basic expectation many of us hold, but it would be incorrect to suggest we are therefore assuming the ECHR will throw out the conviction. It could do no such thing as that's beyond it's charter. Only Italy can do that.
I have taken the liberty of parsing some of the text of your post because I think that text needs some clarification. I have taken the further liberty of writing the following suggested revision for clarity:

1. An ECHR judgment favorable to Knox would allow her, under Italian law, to request a revision trial.

The revision trial is the only "ordinary" way to reverse a final conviction under Italian law. (A pardon may or may not provide an "extraordinary" way to reverse a final conviction.)

2. The Italian judicial system, according to Italian procedural law, would, based on the ECHR judgment, grant Knox the revision trial.

Italy is obligated under international law, its constitution, and an Italian Constitutional Court ruling to consider granting the revision trial. A final decision by Italy not to grant the revision trial, which would be based upon an arbitrary judicial reasoning, would be subject to another application by Knox to the ECHR as a violation of Convention Article 6.

3. Under ECHR case-law, and a strict and lawful interpretation of Italian procedural law, the alleged evidence against Knox for calunnia is inadmissible.

The Italian law against calunnia requires that the false accusation statements be made knowing that the statements are false. Statements derived under coercion or other violation of the will clearly do not meet the elements of the crime of calunnia. As the Gemelli CSC panel and other Italian courts have stated, Knox's interrogation statements could not be used against her based on Italian law.

4. Therefore, the revision trial would lead to a final acquittal or other final dismissal of the calunnia charges against Knox.

Last edited by Numbers; 16th April 2018 at 10:40 AM.
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Old 16th April 2018, 11:17 AM   #2873
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
I have taken the liberty of parsing some of the text of your post because I think that text needs some clarification. I have taken the further liberty of writing the following suggested revision for clarity:

1. An ECHR judgment favorable to Knox would allow her, under Italian law, to request a revision trial.

The revision trial is the only "ordinary" way to reverse a final conviction under Italian law. (A pardon may or may not provide an "extraordinary" way to reverse a final conviction.)

2. The Italian judicial system, according to Italian procedural law, would, based on the ECHR judgment, grant Knox the revision trial.

Italy is obligated under international law, its constitution, and an Italian Constitutional Court ruling to consider granting the revision trial. A final decision by Italy not to grant the revision trial, which would be based upon an arbitrary judicial reasoning, would be subject to another application by Knox to the ECHR as a violation of Convention Article 6.

3. Under ECHR case-law, and a strict and lawful interpretation of Italian procedural law, the alleged evidence against Knox for calunnia is inadmissible.

The Italian law against calunnia requires that the false accusation statements be made knowing that the statements are false. Statements derived under coercion or other violation of the will clearly do not meet the elements of the crime of calunnia. As the Gemelli CSC panel and other Italian courts have stated, Knox's interrogation statements could not be used against her based on Italian law.

4. Therefore, the revision trial would lead to a final acquittal or other final dismissal of the calunnia charges against Knox.
Thanks Numbers. Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to provide a comprehensive analysis of how Amanda's calunnia conviction might eventually be overturned. I was just trying to address Vixen's misleading comments suggesting PIP believe the ECHR can overturn Amanda's calunnia conviction. The ECHR is merely a step in the process, and ultimately it is Italy that needs to overturn the conviction - something I think it will have to do if it abides to a treaty it is signatory to.
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Old 16th April 2018, 02:25 PM   #2874
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Anyone remember the ten-day period recently when no one posted to this thread? Chief reason for that hiatus was that Vixen took some time off posting her tripe.

The most recent falsehood from Vixen is that she now attributes the July-Sept 2009 gap in sittings for the first trial to be because of Bongiorno's pregnancy. Don't let it stop the discussion that it was simply the normal summer recess of Perugian courts. Oh yes, Bongiorno was not pregnant!

Has Vixen ever even acknowledged and of her recent gaffs? (I can think of twice when she actually did..... but this last slew of falsehoods has not attracted one admission or one apology from her. Vixen just keeps going. We're going to reach the 50th Continuation at this rate.)
OK, maybe it was the wrong date, but I know I am right that Bongiorno took time out for her maternity which meant the entire court had to wait weeks for her return. And then the PIP claim it was 'a rush to judgment'.
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Old 16th April 2018, 02:26 PM   #2875
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
1. It's not a felony.

2. No one but you claims that ECHR can "strike out" a false conviction from a member state.

Do you not bother to read the posts?
No it is the PIP who keep claiming that the calunnia felony (a felony, not a civil offence) will be overturned.

There is no hope of that happening.
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Old 16th April 2018, 02:32 PM   #2876
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
The specifics of this link are probably not related to the present case. However, the general principle of how easy it is to transfer something that is sufficiently small is well illustrated, and that does relate to the case in question, in which the transfer of DNA is significant. The authors studied residues from cocaine using an immunologically base system, which they said was presumptive. "Shown in Table 1, tests resulted in 78% positives for cocaine substances on the external surfaces examined in this study; of 45 surfaces tested, 35 were positive for cocaine. Fuel pump buttons (for credit card authorization) caused 100% positive results (n = 10). Ten different service stations were tested. Similarly, ATM machines for cash withdrawal resulted in a 100% positive rate (n = 10 individual locations). From shopping carts, there were seven out of 10 positives (70%). Academic building entrance doors showed the lowest positive frequency at 30% (n = 10). Shopping mall entrance/exit doors tested positive in every instance (100%, n = 5)." More recent work suggests that if people who use a fuel pump, for example, transfer residue onto their hands, it may be detectable.

It's long been known that innocent people who go to parties can set off the cocaine detection machines at airports, because the stuff gets everywhere. IIRC one bank note in 20 at one point was found to have cocaine traces.

Cocaine is a fine powder. DNA from the skin has to be pressed down and include sweat glands for it to stick on a surface. Skin that sheds naturally is dry and rarely has much DNA that is of extractable quality.

Saying cocaine can be transferred easily doesn't ipso facto mean quality human DNA does the same.
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Old 16th April 2018, 02:36 PM   #2877
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
When, and if, the ECHR rules in Knox's favor and Italy either reverses her calunnia conviction or a revision trial results in an acquittal, will you claim the ECHR judges are "bent" and/or "shills"? Will you claim the judges who reverse the conviction or acquit Knox are "bent" and/or "shills? Will you claim it was all orchestrated by the Mafia?

And will Quennell announce that the judges all illegally overstepped their authority?
Read Marasca & Bruno again (if you ever have done) and you will see they openly scoff at the idea the ECHR will find the calunnia conviction unfair.

The best case scenario Knox can hope for is a 'settlement' from Italy for some technical point (rather like when Mignini's admin staff forgot to give Raff his rights in writing [rights he had enjoyed despite the oversight], the court merely issued a mild censure).

Average pay out in awards is just €3,500.

She'll have to con a few more Innocence conferences to try to raise more.
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Old 16th April 2018, 02:39 PM   #2878
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
Vixen, how's that search for evidence that the ECHR are still awaiting evidence from Dalla Vedova that he complained at the time through the correct channels?

I'll give you a hint: you'll find it in the same place you'll find proof that RS owned a Naparijini jacket, a cap with a red stripe, and that the summer recess of the Massei court was due to Bongiorno's pregnancy.
The application to the ECHR has been accepted - insofar the form has been correctly filled in and signed by the right persons - but it has yet to be admitted as a case to be answered and listed for a hearing.
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Old 16th April 2018, 03:10 PM   #2879
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Locard's double edged sword

From my earlier link: "The potential for contamination can affect the reliability of forensic analyses for drugs. In addition, the laboratory which claimed to find explosive residues implicating those convicted in Northern Ireland bombings were found to be compromised by contaminated laboratory instrumentation."

With respect to currency, the percentage of contaminated bills has been reported to be high as 80%, although one chemist has claimed that it is unlikely for the cocaine to transfer from bills onto one's hand. My general point is a that transfers are possible for a variety of substances. Obviously every substance is different with respect to its propensity toward being transferred.
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Old 16th April 2018, 03:20 PM   #2880
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I'm with anglolawyer on this one. Steph did not get "lucky" twice in a row with the two most crucial items of evidence collected (weapon - victim's undies) that just happened to be unfortunately contaminated with the key suspect's DNA at just the exact moment the police desperately needed evidence against them. Not a chance sorry
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