ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags Australia elections , Australia politics , Julie Bishop , Malcolm Turnbull , Tony Abbott

Reply
Old 11th April 2018, 02:38 PM   #1521
Thor 2
Illuminator
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,864
Well Abbott is at it again:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-1...denial/9640784

Quote:
Former prime minister Tony Abbott has laid into Malcolm Turnbull and some senior members of the Government, accusing them of being "clever with words" and getting their "knickers in a twist" over a news report about Australia's migration policy.
Aren't we glad Abbott so gracefully exited the job as prime minister with those words:

'There will be no wrecking, no undermining, and no sniping'
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2018, 01:41 PM   #1522
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 58,454
Who remembers that, anyway?
__________________
Wake up, you cardboard.
- Pixie of Key
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 20th April 2018, 02:23 PM   #1523
Thor 2
Illuminator
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,864
So we have a storm brewing now about Christian faith healers, "Praying the Gay Away" with, as reported, very harmful effects on the gay folk targeted.

The Heath Minister has been petitioned to intervene but refuses to. Now the new Deputy Prime Minister, Michael McCormack, has endorsed this action - or lack thereof.

Given his publicised remark regarding gays back in the 1990's this is hardly surprising:

Quote:
“Unfortunately gays are here and, if the disease their unnatural acts helped spread doesn’t wipe out humanity, they’re here to stay.”
To be fair he did apologise for this remark some years ago, but I wonder how much political expediency had to play in that action. Given his lack of apparent interest in the problem at hand we can be forgiven for our cynicism.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st April 2018, 04:54 PM   #1524
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 58,454
No-one who was paying attention thought that this would go away when equal marriage passed.

Meanwhile, the Greens want to legalise marijuana.
__________________
Wake up, you cardboard.
- Pixie of Key
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th April 2018, 05:07 PM   #1525
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 42,254
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No-one who was paying attention thought that this would go away when equal marriage passed.

Meanwhile, the Greens want to legalise marijuana.
Which is why the Greens will remain irrelevant outside a few inner suburbs. It’s effectively decriminalised now, and is an issue which is utterly trivial.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th April 2018, 09:31 PM   #1526
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
 
rjh01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 23,907
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
No-one who was paying attention thought that this would go away when equal marriage passed.

Meanwhile, the Greens want to legalise marijuana.
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Which is why the Greens will remain irrelevant outside a few inner suburbs. It’s effectively decriminalised now, and is an issue which is utterly trivial.
Actually Australia has a long way to go before it is sold in shops for the use of adults.

Here are a couple of news articles on that issue
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-2...tralia/9681628
Quote:
Asked if he had a view about legalising recreational cannabis use, federal Health Minister Greg Hunt told Four Corners: "It's not something that the Commonwealth is proposing, but it is a matter for individual states, under the constitution."
Senator Di Natale has proposed regulating the sale and use of marijuana by adults in Australia, which he said would raise hundreds of millions of tax dollars.
Mr Hunt slammed the policy as "open slather for a highly addictive and dangerous drug"
http://www.news.com.au/technology/sc...3315da3fce7474

Quote:
Earlier this year, the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine completed the world’s most comprehensive study into marijuana to try and find an answer.
After examining more than 10,000 scientific abstracts dating back to 1999, the extensive 395-page report unearthed more than 100 conclusions about the health effects of recreational and therapeutic cannabis use — many of which support arguments it should be legal.
“The evidence suggests that smoking cannabis does not increase the risk for certain cancers (i.e., lung, head, and neck) in adults,” one of the findings read.
The report also confirmed the many therapeutic effects of weed.
__________________
This signature is for rent.
rjh01 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th April 2018, 02:07 PM   #1527
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 58,454
Yeah, Hunt is wrong about dope being a highly addictive and dangerous drug. It just isn't. Alcohol causes way more real damage, ruins more peoples' lives, and puts more people in hospital than dope does.

Go down to any police station on a Saturday night and see how many people are in the lockup because they were drunk, vs how many people are in the lockup because they were stoned.

Marijuana should be completely legalised, and enforcement on other harder and more damaging drugs like heroin and crystal meth should focus on harm reduction rather than punishing end users.
__________________
Wake up, you cardboard.
- Pixie of Key
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th April 2018, 12:05 AM   #1528
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
 
rjh01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 23,907
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Yeah, Hunt is wrong about dope being a highly addictive and dangerous drug. It just isn't. Alcohol causes way more real damage, ruins more peoples' lives, and puts more people in hospital than dope does.

Go down to any police station on a Saturday night and see how many people are in the lockup because they were drunk, vs how many people are in the lockup because they were stoned.

Marijuana should be completely legalised, and enforcement on other harder and more damaging drugs like heroin and crystal meth should focus on harm reduction rather than punishing end users.
One more reason to make such drugs legal. When politicians say something stupid like that at least most people will know it is stupid if it is legal.
__________________
This signature is for rent.
rjh01 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th April 2018, 01:13 AM   #1529
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 42,254
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Yeah, Hunt is wrong about dope being a highly addictive and dangerous drug. It just isn't. Alcohol causes way more real damage, ruins more peoples' lives, and puts more people in hospital than dope does.

Go down to any police station on a Saturday night and see how many people are in the lockup because they were drunk, vs how many people are in the lockup because they were stoned.

Marijuana should be completely legalised, and enforcement on other harder and more damaging drugs like heroin and crystal meth should focus on harm reduction rather than punishing end users.
With legalisation comes licensing, taxes, advertising, sponsorships, big business....do you want me to go on? Decriminalise it, don't legalise it. Allow people to grow their own without penalties. Crack down on industrial cultivation.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th April 2018, 02:52 AM   #1530
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
 
rjh01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 23,907
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
With legalisation comes licensing, taxes, advertising, sponsorships, big business....do you want me to go on? Decriminalise it, don't legalise it. Allow people to grow their own without penalties. Crack down on industrial cultivation.
In other words legalise it and it becomes the same as any other product.
__________________
This signature is for rent.
rjh01 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2018, 07:31 PM   #1531
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 58,454
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
With legalisation comes licensing, taxes, advertising, sponsorships, big business....do you want me to go on?
You say those as though they are bad things.
__________________
Wake up, you cardboard.
- Pixie of Key
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th April 2018, 05:52 AM   #1532
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 42,254
There have been a lot of comments in this thread about NBN, fraudband and so on. I’ve just been connected to the NBN. Beforehand I had download speeds of around 2mps (I’m about 4km from the exchange) now I have around 50mps. At the same price of my ADSL2+ plan.

Not as good as FTTP, but pretty damn good. I’m happy.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th April 2018, 08:26 AM   #1533
Dabop
Muse
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oz
Posts: 738
Yet a lot of people are experiencing the opposite where they previously had fiber to the premises, their speed usually drops due to the way the older existing network was patched into the NBN
We have fiber to the house (exoptus) and since being hooked to the nbn, speeds have dropped seriously, so much so at peak times the tv cant be watched except on fta, and you struggle to get even 1mbs downloads speeds on a 25mbs connection
__________________
It's a kind of a strawman thing in that it's exactly a strawman thing. Loss Leader

'When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.' George Carlin
Dabop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th April 2018, 09:09 AM   #1534
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 13,075
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
There have been a lot of comments in this thread about NBN, fraudband and so on. I’ve just been connected to the NBN. Beforehand I had download speeds of around 2mps (I’m about 4km from the exchange) now I have around 50mps. At the same price of my ADSL2+ plan.

Not as good as FTTP, but pretty damn good. I’m happy.
I'm glad your gamble paid off. I wouldn't dare take the risk even though I am only a few houses away from a node.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th April 2018, 02:32 PM   #1535
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 42,254
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I'm glad your gamble paid off. I wouldn't dare take the risk even though I am only a few houses away from a node.
I can see Dabop's point, but not this. If you are replacing a few kilometres of copper from the exchange with a couple of hundred meters from the node you simply must get better speed.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th April 2018, 07:09 PM   #1536
Dabop
Muse
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Oz
Posts: 738
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I'm glad your gamble paid off. I wouldn't dare take the risk even though I am only a few houses away from a node.
Unfortunately you dont get the choice, once a suburb is slated for NBN changeover, you have to select a NBN supplier, or lose your connection

We had that issue, we were simply told NBN is coming, do you wish to stay with your existing supplier if they have an NBN account, or choose a new supplier
Worst thing was that by selecting to stay with our existing supplier, we have now found that we have a new contract and are now locked in for another 24 months, the time accrued from the previous contract (6 months left of 24 month contract) doesnt apply to the new NBN contract
__________________
It's a kind of a strawman thing in that it's exactly a strawman thing. Loss Leader

'When you're born into this world, you're given a ticket to the freak show. If you're born in America you get a front row seat.' George Carlin
Dabop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th April 2018, 07:46 PM   #1537
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 13,075
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
If you are replacing a few kilometres of copper from the exchange with a couple of hundred meters from the node you simply must get better speed.
It's not just about the transmission lines, it's also about the equipment that connects them together.

Originally Posted by Dabop View Post
Unfortunately you dont get the choice, once a suburb is slated for NBN changeover, you have to select a NBN supplier, or lose your connection
So far my supplier is only offering NBN as an option. If they decided to switch off the "Naked DSL" and go NBN only then I will roll with the punches.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th April 2018, 11:56 PM   #1538
novaphile
Quester of Doglets
Moderator
 
novaphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 959
I was forced off ADSL2+ onto HFC nbn.

Can't say I'm impressed. Can't use VOIP anymore (ISPs aren't allowed to offer it over HFC) so I have nbn phone instead.

nbn phone has less services than the ISP's VOIP (no auto answer, no message forwarded attached to an email) and it costs more.

Fortunately, my VOIP phone setup had an analogue out, or I'd have been up for a new phone system.

The new speed is OK, slightly better than what I had before, but it costs more.

Unfortunately with HFC, speed declines over time, as more people are added to the service.

So yeah, fraudband. Costs more for less service.
__________________
We would be better, and braver, to engage in enquiry, rather than indulge in the idle fancy, that we already know -- Plato.
novaphile is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st May 2018, 03:31 AM   #1539
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 13,075
Pell to face Judge and Jury

Although about half of the charges against Archbishop Pell have been dismissed, Magistrate Belinda Wallington has ruled there is enough evidence for Pell to face the remaining charges in front of a Judge an jury. A directions hearing will be held tomorrow.
Quote:
Cardinal Pell has pleaded not guilty and strenuously denies the allegations.

A number of onlookers applauded as the magistrate left the court room after delivering her 70-minute ruling.

Defence barrister Robert Richter QC said the most "vile" of the charges had been dismissed.

Cardinal Pell will stand trial on charges relating to alleged sexual offending at a pool in Ballarat in the 1970s and at Melbourne's St Patrick's Cathedral in the 1990s when he was Archbishop of Melbourne.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-0...cision/9713630
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st May 2018, 05:47 AM   #1540
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 42,254
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Although about half of the charges against Archbishop Pell have been dismissed, Magistrate Belinda Wallington has ruled there is enough evidence for Pell to face the remaining charges in front of a Judge an jury. A directions hearing will be held tomorrow.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-05-0...cision/9713630
Yes, this was inevitable. The brother of a work colleague was (allegedly I supposed) abused by Pell. I don’t know who I hate more, Pell or his scum lawyer.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd May 2018, 02:20 AM   #1541
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 13,075
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yes, this was inevitable. The brother of a work colleague was (allegedly I supposed) abused by Pell. I don’t know who I hate more, Pell or his scum lawyer.
That makes it personal. An internet poster who's handle I have seen on ISF said that the brother of a work colleague was abused by Pell.

BTW why the venom against the lawyer? Is it your position that anybody accused of a serious crime should be denied legal representation?
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd May 2018, 03:25 AM   #1542
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 42,254
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That makes it personal. An internet poster who's handle I have seen on ISF said that the brother of a work colleague was abused by Pell.

BTW why the venom against the lawyer? Is it your position that anybody accused of a serious crime should be denied legal representation?
Richter has been the lawyer of choice for some of the most vile criminals in Australia. He has the eloquence and connections to get criminals off on technicalities. Good for him and his scum clients. I hate him.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd May 2018, 05:35 PM   #1543
Thor 2
Illuminator
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 3,864
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Richter has been the lawyer of choice for some of the most vile criminals in Australia. He has the eloquence and connections to get criminals off on technicalities. Good for him and his scum clients. I hate him.

Don't hold back now lionking you tell it how it is.

I think you are right about this Richter creep however:

Quote:
Richter has defended some of Australia's most despised figures, including Julian Knight, the Australian Army officer cadet who killed seven and injured 19 in a mass shooting in Melbourne in 1987 that became known as the Hoddle Street massacre. He's also defended notorious Melbourne gangland figure Mick Gatto, and advocated for tax cheats and convicted paedophiles.
Richter is arguably Australia's foremost criminal defence counsel, feted for his forensic intellect and courtroom advocacy, and for his ability to smuggle clients through the tiniest windows of plausible deniability.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd May 2018, 10:34 PM   #1544
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 13,075
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Richter has been the lawyer of choice for some of the most vile criminals in Australia. He has the eloquence and connections to get criminals off on technicalities. Good for him and his scum clients. I hate him.
I suspect that you would describe any form of acquittal as "got off on a technicality".

However, that does not answer my question. Do you believe that people like Pell should have lousy attorneys or no attorney at all?
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd May 2018, 02:39 PM   #1545
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 58,454
I think it's pretty telling that Pell has a lawyer like that. There are other very good lawyers who don't have Richter's reputation, but engaging him in this case suggests that Pell will find Richter's ability to "smuggle clients through the tiniest windows of plausible deniability" very useful.

Not that my hunch is in any way legally binding, mind you. I await the results of the trials.
__________________
Wake up, you cardboard.
- Pixie of Key

Last edited by arthwollipot; 3rd May 2018 at 02:39 PM. Reason: Plural. There will be two trials.
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2018, 06:56 AM   #1546
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 42,254
Pretty good Budget on face value.

From a position of blatant self interest, support for older Australians looks unexpectedly generous. I am planning to access the Age Pension Loan to purchase a full pension through a low interest reverse mortgage. Many people like me have very large home equity without having $1.5m in superannuation to have a decent retirement. Changes today allow us to purchase 150% of the Age Pension if we want, meaning we would hardly need to touch our superannuation. Wow.

Income tax cuts are underwhelming and won’t have people dancing in the streets, but infrastructure commitments look good.

No increase to Newstart looks simply punitive and further delays in increasing the superannuation guarantee will disadvantage younger people who will face increasing taxes in years to come to support aging Baby Boomers.

Otherwise, it’s clearly an election budget and seemingly a pretty good one. Not that it will sway my vote.....
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2018, 02:43 PM   #1547
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 58,454
How is it for people on low incomes?

I'm asking for... me. I'm asking for me.
__________________
Wake up, you cardboard.
- Pixie of Key
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2018, 02:57 PM   #1548
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 42,254
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
How is it for people on low incomes?

I'm asking for... me. I'm asking for me.
Not great, but the budget does forecast wage rises of around 3.5%, and there will be tax cuts. So possibly a little better off. It’s the unemployed who have been forgotten.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2018, 03:03 PM   #1549
arthwollipot
Observer of Phenomena
 
arthwollipot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 58,454
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Not great, but the budget does forecast wage rises of around 3.5%, and there will be tax cuts. So possibly a little better off. It’s the unemployed who have been forgotten.
That's probably a better and more informative budget summary than I'll get from any other source.
__________________
Wake up, you cardboard.
- Pixie of Key
arthwollipot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2018, 03:10 PM   #1550
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 42,254
The ABC also faces a $84m cut over three years due to stopping indexation of funding. This is not that punitive in my view as the ABC has been and continues to be exempt from productivity dividends (ie cuts) other departments have faced.

With a bureaucracy the size of the ABC targeted redundancies and managerial surgery could achieve this, but expect to hear a heap of “Hands off Peppa Pig” crap.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2018, 05:53 PM   #1551
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 13,075
If there is one demographic that does not need more tax payers' money it is cashed up baby boomers who own their own expensive homes. Yet these are the very target of the government largess. Why? It is a crass attempt by Turnbull to buy votes at the next election. Assistance to unlock boomer equity in their properties (eg loans at the 10 year bond rate) would have been far more equitable but Turnbull is not interested in directing money towards people who might be more likely to vote Labor.

As usual, most of the predictions of a rosy future for government finances rely on the rest of the world becoming a utopia in the near future. This budget is a fail for me.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2018, 06:06 PM   #1552
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 42,254
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
If there is one demographic that does not need more tax payers' money it is cashed up baby boomers who own their own expensive homes. Yet these are the very target of the government largess. Why? It is a crass attempt by Turnbull to buy votes at the next election. Assistance to unlock boomer equity in their properties (eg loans at the 10 year bond rate) would have been far more equitable but Turnbull is not interested in directing money towards people who might be more likely to vote Labor.

As usual, most of the predictions of a rosy future for government finances rely on the rest of the world becoming a utopia in the near future. This budget is a fail for me.
That’s precisely what I’m doing through the Age Pension Loan Scheme. The government will get a proportion of our home equity.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2018, 08:47 PM   #1553
Wildy
Adelaidean
 
Wildy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,940
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
The ABC also faces a $84m cut over three years due to stopping indexation of funding. This is not that punitive in my view as the ABC has been and continues to be exempt from productivity dividends (ie cuts) other departments have faced.

With a bureaucracy the size of the ABC targeted redundancies and managerial surgery could achieve this, but expect to hear a heap of “Hands off Peppa Pig” crap.
I guess that's where the $30 million going to Foxtel is coming from.
__________________
Wildy is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2018, 08:56 PM   #1554
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 42,254
Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
I guess that's where the $30 million going to Foxtel is coming from.
Good point.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2018, 09:11 PM   #1555
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
 
rjh01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 23,907
Katy Gallagher found ineligible to serve in Parliament after High Court citizenship ruling
Citizenship drama flares again, with four MPs and one senator on the way out after High Court ruling

How many more MPs must go before this is fixed? Problem with a referendum is that it is likely to get dirty. Should be held at the same time as the next election, if not shortly after. Would not be enough time to have one before then.Then maybe a few new MPs will get thrown out for the same reasons.
__________________
This signature is for rent.
rjh01 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2018, 09:41 PM   #1556
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 42,254
Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Katy Gallagher found ineligible to serve in Parliament after High Court citizenship ruling
Citizenship drama flares again, with four MPs and one senator on the way out after High Court ruling

How many more MPs must go before this is fixed? Problem with a referendum is that it is likely to get dirty. Should be held at the same time as the next election, if not shortly after. Would not be enough time to have one before then.Then maybe a few new MPs will get thrown out for the same reasons.
It’s only the Senate, so pretty automatic replacements.

But I wouldn’t bet on a referendum overturning this part of the Constitution. If a Hawke, Keating or Howard were to be turfed out because they were deemed ineligible, I can see a change (but perhaps not even then) but we have had a bunch of nonentities, time servers and bozos kicked into touch. A lot of people, including possible me, will be tempted to say “these people are supposed to be pros, they should have known the rules. Leave things be”.
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill

Last edited by lionking; 8th May 2018 at 09:42 PM.
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2018, 10:03 PM   #1557
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 13,075
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
That’s precisely what I’m doing through the Age Pension Loan Scheme. The government will get a proportion of our home equity.
That scheme isn't much different to the reverse mortgages offered by banks. (https://www.humanservices.gov.au/ind...n-loans-scheme)

I had something in mind that was a little more radical. Home owners should be required to use part of the equity in their home in order to purchase part of their old age pension of forego that part of their pension. Baby boomers may not like this but it seems only fair to me. Of course, you would have to charge less than 5.25% interest plus costs to sell this scheme.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2018, 10:10 PM   #1558
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 31°57'S 115°57'E
Posts: 13,075
Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
How many more MPs must go before this is fixed? Problem with a referendum is that it is likely to get dirty.
How many people would vote to let "furreners" get elected to parliament? I wouldn't.

The real problem is the hard line that the high court took. MPs should be able to simply declare to the governor general that they renounce all foreign ties and allegiances and only lose eligibility if they take advantage of a dual nationality (eg claim a foreign pension or take advantage of a restricted travel visa or vote in a foreign election). I might vote for a change along those lines.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th May 2018, 10:12 PM   #1559
lionking
In the Peanut Gallery
 
lionking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 42,254
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
That scheme isn't much different to the reverse mortgages offered by banks. (https://www.humanservices.gov.au/ind...n-loans-scheme)

I had something in mind that was a little more radical. Home owners should be required to use part of the equity in their home in order to purchase part of their old age pension of forego that part of their pension. Baby boomers may not like this but it seems only fair to me. Of course, you would have to charge less than 5.25% interest plus costs to sell this scheme.
Fair enough. This idea has some merit. I’ll have to retire before a change like this comes in though....
__________________
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Sir Winston Churchill
lionking is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th May 2018, 12:00 AM   #1560
rjh01
Gentleman of leisure
Tagger
 
rjh01's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Flying around in the sky
Posts: 23,907
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
It’s only the Senate, so pretty automatic replacements.

But I wouldn’t bet on a referendum overturning this part of the Constitution. If a Hawke, Keating or Howard were to be turfed out because they were deemed ineligible, I can see a change (but perhaps not even then) but we have had a bunch of nonentities, time servers and bozos kicked into touch. A lot of people, including possible me, will be tempted to say “these people are supposed to be pros, they should have known the rules. Leave things be”.
Barnaby Joyce (and others?) was not the Senate. No reason for others to be disqualified who are also in the lower house.


Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
How many people would vote to let "furreners" get elected to parliament? I wouldn't.

The real problem is the hard line that the high court took. MPs should be able to simply declare to the governor general that they renounce all foreign ties and allegiances and only lose eligibility if they take advantage of a dual nationality (eg claim a foreign pension or take advantage of a restricted travel visa or vote in a foreign election). I might vote for a change along those lines.
That would still need a referendum. The wording is not important. It just needs to be made simple to be declared eligible. If it is not fixed then, even if procedures in the major parties are implemented, then eventually the reasons for them would be forgotten. And independants may also be caught. Plus those procedures may stop good people from standing. For example Lionking mentions Bob Hawke. Suppose the day after he was persuaded to stand for parliament he mentioned that his parents were born in the UK and it was too late to fix? Australian history would be a lot different.
__________________
This signature is for rent.
rjh01 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Non-USA & General Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:02 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.