ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags !MOD BOX WARNING!

Reply
Old 23rd February 2018, 06:40 PM   #201
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 7,745
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
If you torture the data, it'll admit to anything. You have to be an honest person and assess all of the evidence instead of rearranging the content of the HSCA earshot experiment to make it seem like you have a chance.
You? Asking others to be honest?

Hilarious

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The table you didn't show:

https://i.imgur.com/Hz6MzjI.png
It takes a very special type of dishonesty to reply to a quote showing a table, and claiming that the quote didn't show the table.

As usual, you are entirely missing the point... lets review your claim (well as near as I can gather because to date, you have been unwilling to actually tell us what your claim is. This is presumably so that you can leave the door open for a goalpost move when we debunk it; this is in itself very dishonest)

You appear to claim that
1. JFK was shot from the front right, and not from behind

2. The shots came from the Grassy Knoll

3. Echoes cannot be responsible for different witnesses hearing shots coming from different directions, so witnesses should be taken at their word.

Have I got that right? If so, then the acoustic evidence alone torpedoes your claim. For your claim #3 to be true, the acoustic test would have to result in 100% accuracy....

EVERY TEST SHOT FIRED FROM THE GRASSY KNOLL SHOULD BE REPORTED BY ALL OBSERVERS AS COMING FROM THE GRASSY KNOLL

EVERY TEST SHOT FIRED FROM THE THE TSBD SHOULD BE REPORTED BY ALL OBSERVERS AS COMING FROM THE TSBD

The fact that they did not report this, but in fact, were only able to pick the right source for the shots an average of 82% (sometime as low as 73%) of the time, indicates that something was misleading them. Echoes is the ONLY reasonable answer.

Furthermore, these two test observers were ready for the shots, carefully listening and most important, THEY KNEW WHERE THE SHOTS WOULD BE COMING FROM AND ONLY HAD TO CHOOSE BETWEEN THE TWO SOURCES. The real ear-witesses had no idea they were going to be in that situation, and were running for their lives because they were, from their perspective, under fire from a sniper.

Now, if you extrapolate the observer's figures out to the number of real ear-witnesses on the day of the assassination, this means that, on average 1 in 5 (20%) could have been mistaken about the direction, perhaps as many as 1 in 4 (25%). This equates fairly well with the HSCA analysis which shows that 20% of ear-witnesses said they thought the shots came from the Grassy Knoll.

Now, if you try to move the goalposts on Claim #1 and Claim #2, and try to claim that he was shot from BOTH the Grassy Knoll and the TSBD, then you have an even bigger hurdle to overcome. You have to explain why only %4 of the ear-witnesses reported shots coming from two directions; in other words, at least 99% of the ear-witnesses who reported hearing them come from the TSBD, stated that the shots ALL came from the TSBD, and 99% of the ear-witnesses who reported hearing them coming from the Grassy Knoll, stated that the shots ALL came from the Grassy Knoll.
__________________
► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.

Last edited by smartcooky; 23rd February 2018 at 06:44 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 06:43 PM   #202
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 11,089
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
You really would benefit reading Speer's chapters on the X-rays.The whole history behind the formulation of the cowlick entry theory is documented. There's actual documented history in there, although that book recommendation may be as pointless as Spongebob explaining to Patrick that the food is in the can rather than the can itself.
Lets go to Pat Speer.

How about you explain why you cite Pat Speer as a source but don't want to acknowledge the fact that he believes a single 6.5 x 52R round caused JFK's headwound?
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 06:47 PM   #203
MicahJava
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,632
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You? Asking others to be honest?

Hilarious



It takes a very special type of dishonesty to reply to a quote showing a table, and claiming that the quote didn't show the table.

As usual, you are entirely missing the point... lets review your claim (well as near as I can gather because to date, you have been unwilling to actually tell us what your claim is. This is presumably so that you can leave the door open for a goalpost move when we debunk it; this is in itself very dishonest)

You appear to claim that
1. JFK was shot from the front right, and not from behind

2. The shots came from the Grassy Knoll

3. Echoes cannot be responsible for different witnesses hearing shots coming from different directions, so witnesses should be taken at their word.

Have I got that right? If so, then the acoustic evidence alone torpedoes your claim. For your claim #3 to be true, the acoustic test would have to result in 100% accuracy....

EVERY TEST SHOT FIRED FROM THE GRASSY KNOLL SHOULD BE REPORTED BY ALL OBSERVERS AS COMING FROM THE GRASSY KNOLL

EVERY TEST SHOT FIRED FROM THE THE TSBD SHOULD BE REPORTED BY ALL OBSERVERS AS COMING FROM THE TSBD

The fact that they did not report this, but in fact, were only able to pick the right source for the shots an average of 82% (sometime as low as 73%) of the time, indicates that something was misleading them. Echoes is the ONLY reasonable answer.

Furthermore, these two test observers were ready for the shots, carefully listening and most important, THEY KNEW WHERE THE SHOTS WOULD BE COMING FROM AND ONLY HAD TO CHOOSE BETWEEN THE TWO SOURCES. The real ear-witesses had no idea they were going to be in that situation, and were running for their lives because they were, from their perspective, under fire from a sniper.

Now, if you extrapolate the observer's figures out to the number of real ear-witnesses on the day of the assassination, this means that, on average 1 in 5 (20%) could have been mistaken about the direction, perhaps as many as 1 in 4 (25%). This equates fairly well with the HSCA analysis which shows that 20% of ear-witnesses said they thought the shots came from the Grassy Knoll.

Now, if you try to move the goalposts on Claim #1 and Claim #2, and try to claim that he was shot from BOTH the Grassy Knoll and the TSBD, then you have an even bigger hurdle to overcome. You have to explain why only %4 of the ear-witnesses reported shots coming from two directions; in other words, at least 99% of the ear-witnesses who reported hearing them come from the TSBD, stated that the shots ALL came from the TSBD, and 99% of the ear-witnesses who reported hearing them coming from the Grassy Knoll, stated that the shots ALL came from the Grassy Knoll.
The 'every witness was hallucination" routine. Been there. May as well argue that for what evidence you have in the face of the HSCA earshot experiment.
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 06:51 PM   #204
Tomtomkent
Philosopher
 
Tomtomkent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,411
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Because many of these testimonies and statements aren't available with OCR text, and I cannot copy and paste them directly here? There's nothing stopping you from going to history-matters or maryferrel.
None of which explains why your argument relies on the chapter of a conspiracy book, and not the primary evidence itself.

Shall I explain why I don’t think you can argue from primary sources?

If you looked at the primary evidence, the autopsy documents and photographs, there would be no need ask the ‘origin’ of what you call the “cowlick wound”, because it is THE entry wound visible not only on the X-rays, but photographed in focus with a rule for scale, as subject of the photo, and (your interpretation aside) described adequately in the autopsy report.

You substitute secondary, or tirtiary evidence, because your argument can not be sustained by the primary evidence.
__________________
@tomhodden

Never look up an E-book because this signature line told you. Especially not Dead Lament (ASIN: B00JEN1MWY). Or A Little Trouble (ASIN: B00GQFZZQW).
Tomtomkent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 06:53 PM   #205
Tomtomkent
Philosopher
 
Tomtomkent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,411
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The 'every witness was hallucination" routine. Been there. May as well argue that for what evidence you have in the face of the HSCA earshot experiment.
No hallucinations were mentioned or discussed.
Please explain why you believe the post described hallucinations?
__________________
@tomhodden

Never look up an E-book because this signature line told you. Especially not Dead Lament (ASIN: B00JEN1MWY). Or A Little Trouble (ASIN: B00GQFZZQW).
Tomtomkent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 06:54 PM   #206
MicahJava
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,632
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Lets go to Pat Speer.

How about you explain why you cite Pat Speer as a source but don't want to acknowledge the fact that he believes a single 6.5 x 52R round caused JFK's headwound?
Speer actually makes the case that Kennedy's head wounds were caused by two missiles, the large wound being created by a Carcano round tangentially striking the top-right side of the head.

There is physical evidence for this in the form of human skin embedded directly on CE567, and for trace amounts of lead being apparent on the x-rays and photographs of the harper fragment. X-ray evidence for a tangential wound is discussed, along with many HSCA forensic pathologists themselves describing the x-rays similarly to a tangential wound.

Last edited by MicahJava; 23rd February 2018 at 06:55 PM.
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:06 PM   #207
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Perfection, NV
Posts: 28,698
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Speer actually makes the case that Kennedy's head wounds were caused by two missiles, the large wound being created by a Carcano round tangentially striking the top-right side of the head.
That can't be right. The autopsy you've been citing said there was one entrance and one exit wound.

Can you clear up your confusion?
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:12 PM   #208
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 11,089
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Axxman300, how many times do i have to tell you. There does not need to be a gunman on the knoll to explain the perceived loud report(s) originating from the knoll. A rear shooter may have been able to replicate this acoustical anomaly by using a noise-suppressor in conjunction with supersonic ammunition. The evidence gathered by the HSCA earshot experiment indicates that a high-powered rifle fired from the snipers nest cannot explain the knoll witnesses.
MJ recycles another argument from ignorance - from March 2017:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=2639

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
BStrong is BS-strong. Just google "silencer", "noise", "opposite direction" and you'll find people on gun forums discussing this well-known phenomenon, to the point of some suggesting it's benefit in hunting. Why do you have to lie instead of honestly debate?

Insecure table pounding noted.

The "phenomenon" you reference is nothing more than the perception of the earwitness and is not related to the use of a suppressor.

Let's review what you posted about suppressors:

Noise suppressors can distort the sound of a gunshot to seem like it came from the opposite direction. But of course, noise suppressors don't make the muzzle blast completely silent.

You are asserting that a suppressor as a device causes an earwitness to believe that the shooter is in the opposite direction from the actual position of the shooter.

This isn't a phenomenon that is caused by the can. As I've pointed out repeatedly, earwitness testimony can be unreliable for a number of reasons.

I posted my most embarrassing moment with my "it's gotta be a shotgun" 911 call and in the example of one of my friends that witnessed the murder, he didn't hear the pistol being fired within ten feet of him and the piece wasn't suppressed. He target fixated on the gun and the victim, saw the thing cycle and eject the empty case but didn't hear the shot.

For the purposes of your fantasy, a ventriloquist suppressor might be a very cool thing, but there is no such thing. People who hear loud noises react to and interpret to those noises in different ways. If a person is untrained they might not even notice the sound of a projectile passing close by, or someone hearing the same projectile at a different point in the projectile's trajectory nearby static objects might interpret that single projectile as being multiple projectiles due to the "crack" as passes them.

Smart well-trained guy might be completely wrong about a sound they heard.

No suppressor needed.

What I'd like to see from you is some evidence of one of these cool ventriloquist suppressors. It would go great with my Hush-a-Bomb.

As far as lying goes. I can't even turn it around on you.

You don't know enough about the subject matter to lie about it. You do confuse fact, fantasy and wish fulfillment, but that's par for the course. And that's why when you're going to stick your baby toe into the ocean of facts concerning firearms in general and this case in particular you're not going to like the bath that you'll end up taking.

A debate requires two or more well informed individuals to participate.

In this arena you do not qualify as being well informed.

XXXXX

And since MJ is so into recycling, here's another post from March 2017 that I'm sure he won't mind seeing again:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=2581

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Silliest discussion ever. The situation in Dealey Plaza, as reported by dozens of witnesses who were there compared to the findings of the two observers in the HSCA earshot experiment, was nothing like what you would expect from three shots fired from a Carcano. The only thing that could discredit the HSCA earshot experiment would be a similar, but more exhaustive experiment with more observers. But what happens when that just further confirms the same thing as the HSCA? Do you say half the witnesses to the assassination simultaneously had the same auditory hallucination?

The HSCA earshot experiments and the assassination witness statements are enough to almost certainly know that the situation in Dealey Plaza wasn't just three shots from a Carcano.


I've gone multiple rounds with multiple posters in this thread that want to hang their hat on "earwitness" reports. Rather than repost all the earlier material, I'll hit the high points:

In response to a ctist that believed the muzzle blast was caused by the velocity of the projectile, not the expanding gases that propel the projectile:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=348

Same poster, same jive, no evidence and like many folks on that side of the street, -0- knowledge of the actual subject matter:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=372

More from the world's most poorly informed JFK fantasist:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...&postcount=403

Early appearance of Micahjava working the wrong side of the street:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1250

This one is just me describing some earwitness reports that were interesting and germane to the discussion, including one of my own most embarrassing moments:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1266

And here's that moment:

"#3

Me.

At home.

Loud hollow boom, not bang.

First report gets my attention, second boom maybe two minutes later.

Hollow, boom not bang, not handgun, not rifle, has to be a 12 gauge shotgun.

I get on the horn, while on phone, more reports.

I report to 911 dispatcher what I heard.

Maybe three minutes later I get a call from the responding officer informing me that the "flat hollow boom" I reported as a shotgun being fired was in reality a truck driver having difficulty with his tractor. The flat hollow boom was un-burned diesel combusting in the tractors' exhaust stack...and yes, my balls were broken for a long time behind the 911 call once the word got out, and it took all of 48 hrs to circulate through local LE and into my agency


Ear witness testimony is subjective at best, and all manner of factors can color the report of an ear witness, or an eye witness for that matter."

Here's one of MJ's all time greatest misses and my response:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1152

"Lol. Some of the best snipers in the world have said that they could not replicate those shots, and they were alledgedly made with a dollar store with the most defective scope ever. I'm not aware anybody replicating the shots. I know of one experiment in which an olympic sniper accomplished something similar... from a height of the third floor of the school book depository."

To this day those "Worlds best snipers" have yet to make their opinions known through MJ and it's only been what? almost a year? The factual mistakes are hilarious. Great 'investigator" that doesn't even know which floor of the TSBD building the shots were fired from.

This one addresses MJ's "Worlds best" jive, and in looking this post up I realized that it's substantially the sane post I made in the last couple of days, referencing the same facts and using the same pictures. That might give some idea about how certain CTist posters react after their fantasies are refuted- they simply wait for an opportune moment to hit the reset button and try the same old jive that went TU the last time they tried pushing it:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1230

[One of my all-time favorite local bands, Tower of Power. has a song titled "Diggin' on James Brown" and there's this lyric:

Ya know the more things change
The more they stay the same


That's what pops into my thoughts every time MJ brings up the same nonsense that didn't get him anywhere the first, second, third and infinitum times they posted it.
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:21 PM   #209
MicahJava
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,632
BStrong, thank you for admitting in a long-winded fashion that you are only concerned about dumb word games. I know that a suppressor itself is not literally the cause of the acoustical phenomenon caused by firing them. You're just playing word games to maybe try to trick some fool into thinking you're saying something important. Pretty pathetic.

And you're also forgetting that the "world's best snipers and Olympic snipers" in fact couldn't replicate the single-assassin scinareo and that is not a flub by me whatsoever.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisb...Item%2001A.pdf

Volume III pge. 441 starts the testimony of Ronald Simmons, whose -e is: Chief of the Infantry Weapons Evaluation Branch of the Ballistics Research Laboratory of the Department of the Army, in a nutshell he used three NRA MASTERS Staley, Miller and Hendrix (capable of Olympic competition) in an attempt to duplicate the accuracy and timing attributed to Oswald. Their reenactments were under better conditions than Oswald contended with.

1. All the time they wanted to aim first shot.

2. No oak tree obscuring their vision.

3. Thirty feet up instead of the sixth floor

4. Targets two feet square.

5. Stationary targets as opposed to a moving target.

6. Had advantage of shimmed scope for accuracy.

7. Targets. No pressure of killing a President of the U.S.

NEEDLESS TO SAY, THREE NRA "MASTERS" COULD NOT DUPLICATE SHOOTING SKILLS OF ONE LONE NUT NAMED LEE HARVEY OSWALD.

Last edited by MicahJava; 23rd February 2018 at 07:30 PM.
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:21 PM   #210
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 11,089
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Speer actually makes the case that Kennedy's head wounds were caused by two missiles, the large wound being created by a Carcano round tangentially striking the top-right side of the head.

There is physical evidence for this in the form of human skin embedded directly on CE567, and for trace amounts of lead being apparent on the x-rays and photographs of the harper fragment. X-ray evidence for a tangential wound is discussed, along with many HSCA forensic pathologists themselves describing the x-rays similarly to a tangential wound.
Then you'd better address this:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5&postcount=82

The edited portion is NSFW.
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:23 PM   #211
MicahJava
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,632
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Then you'd better address this:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...5&postcount=82

The edited portion is NSFW.
Try reading the whole page instead of skimming over the pictures, BStrong.
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:28 PM   #212
MicahJava
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,632
Originally Posted by Tomtomkent View Post
No hallucinations were mentioned or discussed.
Please explain why you believe the post described hallucinations?
The HSCA earshot experiment replicated the situation in Dealey Plaza on 11/22 accurately with motorcycles backfiring on the roads and rear rounds fired into sandbags. The major difference was the lack of a large crowd and some more mental acuity. You don't make the same mistake 50 times over unless it's a pattern so why bother pretending that some acoustical anomaly happened which created the sound of a loud report from the grassy knoll area?
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:34 PM   #213
Tomtomkent
Philosopher
 
Tomtomkent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,411
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The HSCA earshot experiment replicated the situation in Dealey Plaza on 11/22 accurately with motorcycles backfiring on the roads and rear rounds fired into sandbags. The major difference was the lack of a large crowd and some more mental acuity. You don't make the same mistake 50 times over unless it's a pattern so why bother pretending that some acoustical anomaly happened which created the sound of a loud report from the grassy knoll area?
This does not address the question asked.
Where in the post you quoted is it posited that those who misidentified the location were hallucinating?

Are you suggesting that YOUR theory about a suppressor causes a hallucination?

What is the difference in mechanism?
__________________
@tomhodden

Never look up an E-book because this signature line told you. Especially not Dead Lament (ASIN: B00JEN1MWY). Or A Little Trouble (ASIN: B00GQFZZQW).
Tomtomkent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:36 PM   #214
MicahJava
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,632
A short list of the gun enthusiasts I found online discussing the "opposite direction" phenomenon just by using google:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=2882
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:42 PM   #215
MicahJava
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,632
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
A short list of the gun enthusiasts I found online discussing the "opposite direction" phenomenon just by using google:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=2882
Ooh found another one.

VjjR on snipershide.com says:

Quote:
"A brake or a flash hider will disperse the report of a rifle in an opposite direction of bullet travel. (A brake more so than a hider) And you wouldn't hear the sonic crack either. In order to notice this dispersion of sound you would probably have to be at least 100 yds downrange."
https://forum.snipershide.com/thread...xcr-308.70666/

Last edited by MicahJava; 23rd February 2018 at 07:46 PM.
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:44 PM   #216
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 7,745
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The 'every witness was hallucination" routine. Been there. May as well argue that for what evidence you have in the face of the HSCA earshot experiment.
I call BS on your reply. Its not "every witness". You are just plain lying now.

More than half the witnesses; the ones closes to the TSBD and therefore in the best position to hear those shots, were 100% certain that they heard them coming from there.

Are you now claiming they they were hallucinating?
__________________
► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:46 PM   #217
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 11,089
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
BStrong, thank you for admitting in a long-winded fashion that you are only concerned about dumb word games.

And you're also forgetting that the "world's best snipers and Olympic snipers" in fact couldn't replicate the single-assassin scinareo and that is a fact not a flub by me whatsoever.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisb...Item%2001A.pdf

Volume III pge. 441 starts the testimony of Ronald Simmons, whose -e is: Chief of the Infantry Weapons Evaluation Branch of the Ballistics Research Laboratory of the Department of the Army, in a nutshell he used three NRA MASTERS Staley, Miller and Hendrix (capable of Olympic competition) in an attempt to duplicate the accuracy and timing attributed to Oswald. Their reenactments were under better conditions than Oswald contended with.

1. All the time they wanted to aim first shot.

2. No oak tree obscuring their vision.

3. Thirty feet up instead of the sixth floor

4. Targets two feet square.

5. Stationary targets as opposed to a moving target.

6. Had advantage of shimmed scope for accuracy.

7. Targets. No pressure of killing a President of the U.S.

NEEDLESS TO SAY, THREE NRA "MASTERS" COULD NOT DUPLICATE SHOOTING SKILLS OF ONE LONE NUT NAMED LEE HARVEY OSWALD.
Pretty good cop out when you have no facts in evidence. What you call word games other observers might consider the contrast between knowledge and belief - belief based on something far removed from knowledge.

The Olympic sniper, impossible marksmanship blah blah? where have I heard this before? March 2017! again? This time, MJ wasn't the guilty party here, but ...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=2493

Originally Posted by No Other View Post
I can respect all of you who have posted your experiences with bolt action rifles, speed competition, et al... I really do but what you all are familiar with is that one rifle is not the same as the another. There has not been one Rifleman who has taken the rifle that is suspected in the killing of JFK and shot it with the accuracy that is given to the person who shot Kennedy. Many have tried but none have been successful until that feat is accomplished, all that is being said is very interesting but it will not advance the case of a Lone Gunman.


You're incorrect:

Howard Donahue:

Donahue first became interested in the story of the assassination of John F. Kennedy after being invited to participate in a re-creation of the shooting as one of eleven invited marksmen and sharpshooters.[2] He demonstrated that it would have been possible for Lee Harvey Oswald to have fired three shots in the time specified by the Warren Commission, and was the only one of the eleven to better the 5.6-second window. However the experience highlighted to Donahue other concerns regarding the Warren report, and in particular the fact that the testimony of ballistics experts seemed to have been completely omitted from the Commission's evidence gathering.[4

And as I note above, Because someone is unable to duplicate what someone else has done does not constitute evidence that the initial activity did not take place.

HD's completion backwards theory based on his own ability to actually duplicate LHO's performance is even worse in my POV than the "nobody can do it" side of the street.

I can't duplicate the shooting feats of Sarver.

Or Mcgivern:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_McGivern

Or Topperwein:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Topperwein

Or Miculek:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Miculek

or Munden:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Munden

Or Satterwhite:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Satterwhite

That in no way establishes that they didn't do what they're famous for.

XXXX

I just knew that MJ worked the same side of the street more than once, this gem from August, 2016:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1230

Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The early reports of a bullet found in the grass were an early assertion of mine. I think that a missed bullet most likely struck the very upper corner of the concrete square around manhole cover where the grass had slightly grown over. There are photographs of Buddy Walthers and an unidentified officially-dressed blond man poking around that area, even putting something in their pocket. Newspaper reports, sworn testimony, how Walthers can't seem to keep his story straight about it, and the fact there there is an actual chip in the concrete there. I don't know the trajectory required, but a fragment of this may have been responsible for the other mark in the concrete near James Tague.



If the people here are half as familiar with the case as they claim to be, they should know that many relevant experts have come out and said that even having such accuracy with a time spacing of 2.3 seconds would be very unlikely, even for them considering everything. So far, nobody has provided anything but experiments designed to cycle and fire a MC as fast as possible. Has anybody actually gotten two accurate shots in 2.3 seconds with an identical Carcano when the exact circumstances are recreated, including moving targets? Has no Television hitpiece successfully done that? I know Jesse Ventura attempted it, but he failed.


I'm very familiar with the case and remember the day vividly, but more than that I've spent a lifetime behind a rifle.

I've posted it before, but I'll do so again here.

Every single "fact" cited by CTists wrt the rifle, the mechanical aspects of the shooting and the terminal ballistics effect of the 6.5 x 52 round are flat out ********.

Your post here is no exception:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1106

"Lol. Some of the best snipers in the world have said that they could not replicate those shots, and they were alledgedly made with a dollar store with the most defective scope ever. I'm not aware anybody replicating the shots. I know of one experiment in which an olympic sniper accomplished something similar... from a height of the third floor of the school book depository.

"Recreations" of various feats of marksmanship mean absolutely -0-.

I shoot at 1000 yds fairly regularly, not as much as I used to, but a good day is where I shoot slightly under the magic number of minute-of-angle, which works out to 10" at 1000 yds - meaning I can accurately place a number of shots (3 or 5, depending on the type of rifle/caliber I'm shooting) in that 10 " diameter circle.

This guy is a little better than I am:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...at-1000-yards/

"Tom Sarver has entered the ranks of the Immortals. Shooting at the Thunder Valley (Ohio) Range on July 7th, Tom nailed a truly spectacular 1.403″ 5-shot group at 1000 yards.

This represents a new IBS Light Gun group-size record that edges Rich DeSimone’s 1.564″, previously thought “untouchable.” What is even more amazing is that the group was centered, producing a 50-score with 5 Xs. That will be a new IBS Score record as well.

The fact that I can't replicate Sarver's .14 MOA group has no bearing on his (or anyone else's) ability to do so, and before you get to the huminah huminah he's an expert and LHO wasn't, LHO was shooting at under 100 yds, which doesn't take any type of specialized high-speed low drag experience to pull off.

Facts in evidence:



The love of my life on a Mk12 Mod 0 clone I assembled, on the 100 yd range.

Second time firing an AR platform rifle and had never even seen a Trijicon ACOG optic before.

The target:



Shooting 5 shot groups, her two groups in this pic are at 12:00 and 1:00 high, and the group at 1:00 is just at 1 minute of angle. The optic used is in no way a precision scope. It uses a tritium illumination red circle reticle for quick target acquisition.

She has had no formal training other than basic safety instruction and the hunter's safety course required to obtain a hunting license in California.

My groups consist of the 10 ring and X hits, 5 shot groups under .5 MOA.

MJ's response:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1232

I acknowledge your comment but don't feel the need to respond to it.

XXXX

It's a hard world when you wish to assrt facts to people who live the facts you know nothing about.
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:49 PM   #218
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 11,089
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Ooh found another one.

VjjR on snipershide.com says:



https://forum.snipershide.com/thread...xcr-308.70666/
He's wrong. Especially about muzzle brakes.

"Earwitnesses" don't need any help in being wrong.
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:50 PM   #219
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 7,745
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
A short list of the gun enthusiasts I found online discussing the "opposite direction" phenomenon just by using google:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=2882
Of course the witnesses across the road from the Grassy Knoll would not be hearing the shots coming from the "opposite direction".

From their position, if they are facing the Grassy Knoll, shots fired from the TSBD would be coming almost 90° from their left.

From their position, if they are facing the TSBD, shots fired from the Grassy Knoll would be coming almost 90° from their right.

So your suppressor claim is debunked right there, from your own evidence.

You're floundering... try again!
__________________
► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:51 PM   #220
MicahJava
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,632
Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Of course the witnesses across the road from the Grassy Knoll would not be hearing the shots coming from the "opposite direction".

From their position, if they are facing the Grassy Knoll, shots fired from the TSBD would be coming almost 90° from their left.

From their position, if they are facing the TSBD, shots fired from the Grassy Knoll would be coming almost 90° from their right.

So your suppressor claim is debunked right there, from your own evidence.

You're floundering... try again!
...Like a dancing IT clown of intentionally missing the point. Please stop.
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:51 PM   #221
Tomtomkent
Philosopher
 
Tomtomkent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,411
So just to be clear, despite claims people had to be “hallucinating” to be wrong about the direction of shots when it opposes the conspiracy theory, those same witnesses would be fooled by a known effect, that is not caused by a silencer, when it fits the conspiracy theory?

What happens if we remove the double standard and suggest that in an echo chamber like the plaza, it is entirely possible that the conflicting reports, around which the claims of a second shooter are based, might simply be caused by Oswald’s rifle and the same effect?

What if, for example, we point out that any experimental data gathered by attempts to recreate the acoustic effects, are of limited use when we have no recordings of what people heard, nor could we expect to have such data, to make a meaningful comparison to?
__________________
@tomhodden

Never look up an E-book because this signature line told you. Especially not Dead Lament (ASIN: B00JEN1MWY). Or A Little Trouble (ASIN: B00GQFZZQW).
Tomtomkent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:52 PM   #222
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 11,089
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Try reading the whole page instead of skimming over the pictures, BStrong.
I did. That's why I posted it because Speer acknowledges what you reject - that a single Carcano round can cause extensive damage in a headshot.
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:53 PM   #223
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 11,089
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
...Like a dancing IT clown of intentionally missing the point. Please stop.
But you can't.
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:54 PM   #224
smartcooky
Philosopher
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 7,745
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
...Like a dancing IT clown of intentionally missing the point. Please stop.
You are the one missing the point. Take a hike!
__________________
► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:56 PM   #225
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Perfection, NV
Posts: 28,698
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
NEEDLESS TO SAY, THREE NRA "MASTERS" COULD NOT DUPLICATE SHOOTING SKILLS OF ONE LONE NUT NAMED LEE HARVEY OSWALD.[/color]
So you're saying that nobody shot JFK because it was an impossible shot?

Or impossible just for Oswald?
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:57 PM   #226
MicahJava
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,632
An actual grown-up discussion: Neurologist Michael Chesser has presented evidence that Kennedy's skull X-rays depict a small hole in the forehead above the right eye, with bone fallen somewhat inward. If a hole in the forehead above the right eye did exist, then this wound was not discussed by the autopsy pathologists.

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-k...in-photographs

https://statick2k-5f2f.kxcdn.com/ima...uston-2017.pdf



This is the same defect on the lateral skull X-ray that neurologist Joseph Riley argued was a small hole in the skull.

http://jfkhistory.com/riehl/What_Struck_John.html
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 07:59 PM   #227
MicahJava
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,632
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
I did. That's why I posted it because Speer acknowledges what you reject - that a single Carcano round can cause extensive damage in a headshot.
So what? A single high-powered round entering next to the EOP almost certainly can't replicate Kennedy's wounds as shown on the official evidence.
MicahJava is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 08:01 PM   #228
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 11,089
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The HSCA earshot experiment replicated the situation in Dealey Plaza on 11/22 accurately with motorcycles backfiring on the roads and rear rounds fired into sandbags. The major difference was the lack of a large crowd and some more mental acuity. You don't make the same mistake 50 times over unless it's a pattern so why bother pretending that some acoustical anomaly happened which created the sound of a loud report from the grassy knoll area?
Someone's posting history supports your assertion.
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 08:02 PM   #229
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 11,089
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
So what? A single high-powered round entering next to the EOP almost certainly can't replicate Kennedy's wounds as shown on the official evidence.
There's no need to, as has been pointed out regularly.
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 08:04 PM   #230
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 11,089
Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
So you're saying that nobody shot JFK because it was an impossible shot?

Or impossible just for Oswald?
The Germans could have done it at Pearl Harbor, but the air in Texas didn't allow any old Italian bullet to kill our beloved President.
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 08:16 PM   #231
Tomtomkent
Philosopher
 
Tomtomkent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 8,411
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
So what? A single high-powered round entering next to the EOP almost certainly can't replicate Kennedy's wounds as shown on the official evidence.
No... having a bullet enter lower than the official evidence states would not replicate the damage said evidence described.

Have the bullet enter slightly higher, where the entry wound is described and shown, in said evidence, and it is more than possible.
__________________
@tomhodden

Never look up an E-book because this signature line told you. Especially not Dead Lament (ASIN: B00JEN1MWY). Or A Little Trouble (ASIN: B00GQFZZQW).
Tomtomkent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 08:27 PM   #232
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Perfection, NV
Posts: 28,698
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
So what? A single high-powered round entering next to the EOP almost certainly can't replicate Kennedy's wounds as shown on the official evidence.
Guess what that tells the grown-ups? We know it tells CTists to say foolish things.
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 08:33 PM   #233
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 11,089
Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
Guess what that tells the grown-ups? We know it tells CTists to say foolish things.
There's a hell of a gulf between writing about GSW's to the head and what they are or aren't based on what somebody read and knowing about GSW's to the head first hand.
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 09:57 PM   #234
Axxman300
Master Poster
 
Axxman300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 2,590
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Then why do you always act like you aren't already familiar with the most important evidence? I know you claim to have become a lone nutter on a journey of rediscovering the evidence, but you clearly don't know a lot of the material by memory.
All I need to know is this:

JFK was killed by two 6.5x52mm rounds fired from a Carcano rifle owned by Lee Oswald from his place of employment, and his duty station on the 6th floor of the TSBD. The spent shells and the rifle were recovered in the building after Oswald had fled. The two rounds were recovered from the limo, and Connally's stretcher at Parkland. No other bullets were found and only one other Carcano round was fired, and is to date unaccounted for.

The forensics show that the JFK was struck in the upper back and that round exited the throat and continued into Connally. This is supported by the total x-ray evidence and fiber evidence from JFK's jacket, shirt, and necktie. The wounds to both men are almost exclusive to the Carcano round.

Oswald fled the scene after he shot JFK, and killed Officer Tippet while trying to evade capture, and almost killed a second DPD officer in the theater during his apprehension.

That is all I need to know because these fact are unassailable and have been since day one.

The only stuff I've forgotten is the CT crap, much in the same way survivors of molestation block out painful memories of being taken advantage off. Lifton, Mars, Lane, Stone, and all of the others lied to me, and I let them because I liked the idea of being in on a secret no matter how flimsy and contradictory the narrative was at the time. Fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice, I might as well by into the 9-11 BS and Bigfoot because...reasons...

Even after all of that, if someone can successfully link Oswald to a Cuban militia group in Dallas/NO I'm all ears, but anyone believing there was a second shooter in Dealey Plaza is a pathetic fool.
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha
Axxman300 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 10:09 PM   #235
Axxman300
Master Poster
 
Axxman300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 2,590
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
An actual grown-up discussion: Neurologist Michael Chesser has presented evidence that Kennedy's skull X-rays depict a small hole in the forehead above the right eye, with bone fallen somewhat inward. If a hole in the forehead above the right eye did exist, then this wound was not discussed by the autopsy pathologists.


This is the same defect on the lateral skull X-ray that neurologist Joseph Riley argued was a small hole in the skull.
Here's the problem, he's a CTist, not an objective professional. More to the point, he uses the same old low quality copies of x-rays that have been out in the public for decades. He didn't review the autopsy photographs, and even repeats the lie that the brain photographs are missing.

Once again you've rolled snake-eyes.
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha
Axxman300 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 10:10 PM   #236
Axxman300
Master Poster
 
Axxman300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 2,590
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
So what? A single high-powered round entering next to the EOP almost certainly can't replicate Kennedy's wounds as shown on the official evidence.
Wrong.

The damage is mostly exclusive to the 6.5x52mm Carcano round.
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha
Axxman300 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 10:33 PM   #237
Axxman300
Master Poster
 
Axxman300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 2,590
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
BStrong, thank you for admitting in a long-winded fashion that you are only concerned about dumb word games. I know that a suppressor itself is not literally the cause of the acoustical phenomenon caused by firing them. You're just playing word games to maybe try to trick some fool into thinking you're saying something important. Pretty pathetic.
If by word games you mean facts then I can see why you're put out.

That recent test by the History Channel was done with the latest technology, and you're bummed because it means you have to throw out 75% or earwitness testimony.


Quote:
And you're also forgetting that the "world's best snipers and Olympic snipers" in fact couldn't replicate the single-assassin scinareo and that is not a flub by me whatsoever.
This should be fun.

Also, what is a"Scinareo"? Do they ride horseys there?

Quote:
Volume III pge. 441 starts the testimony of Ronald Simmons, whose -e is: Chief of the Infantry Weapons Evaluation Branch of the Ballistics Research Laboratory of the Department of the Army, in a nutshell he used three NRA MASTERS Staley, Miller and Hendrix (capable of Olympic competition) in an attempt to duplicate the accuracy and timing attributed to Oswald. Their reenactments were under better conditions than Oswald contended with.


Better than a sunny day, no wind, from essentially his office window? Okay.

Quote:
1. All the time they wanted to aim first shot.

2. No oak tree obscuring their vision.

3. Thirty feet up instead of the sixth floor

4. Targets two feet square.

5. Stationary targets as opposed to a moving target.

6. Had advantage of shimmed scope for accuracy.

7. Targets. No pressure of killing a President of the U.S.

NEEDLESS TO SAY, THREE NRA "MASTERS" COULD NOT DUPLICATE SHOOTING SKILLS OF ONE LONE NUT NAMED LEE HARVEY OSWALD.
And yet dozens have recreated the shots over the years, some on film.

Did either of the three have the rifle for a month ahead of time to spend time on the range? I doubt it. Was the test done with the same visual kill-funnel that Oswald had thanks to Elm Street helping him line up his shots?

What is an NRA "Master" anyway?

The problem with marksmen is that they usually train with a single rifle model, and while you'd think a rifle is a rifle, the fact is that each type has its quirks. Certainly the Carcano is an acquired taste.

Another problem is motivation. Oswald had motivation to kill JFK, it was his big chance. These shooters had no horse in the race whatsoever. I point to our experience in Iraq and Afghanistan where our highly trained, well armed troops have had very bad days facing off against a force of young men with no training at all - just the will to kill Americans.

But what do I know, I live in the real world and not CT Land these days.
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha
Axxman300 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 23rd February 2018, 10:34 PM   #238
Axxman300
Master Poster
 
Axxman300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 2,590
Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
So you're saying that nobody shot JFK because it was an impossible shot?

Or impossible just for Oswald?
He's not saying it, someone else said it, and he thinks it's true.
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha
Axxman300 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th February 2018, 06:17 AM   #239
RoboTimbo
Hostile Nanobacon
 
RoboTimbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Perfection, NV
Posts: 28,698
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
So what? A single high-powered round entering next to the EOP almost certainly can't replicate Kennedy's wounds as shown on the official evidence.
How many rounds does the official evidence which you continue to cite say entered JFK's skull?

Why do you cite official evidence and then substitute your own CTist conclusions for that of the experts? Don't you find that to be intellectually untenable?
RoboTimbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 24th February 2018, 07:51 AM   #240
HSienzant
Illuminator
 
HSienzant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,830
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Because many of these testimonies and statements aren't available with OCR text, and I cannot copy and paste them directly here? There's nothing stopping you from going to history-matters or maryferrel.
You could always post a link and summarize the point. Then we could discuss if the point and the link has any merit.

Hank
__________________
"Looks like we're really in nut country now, Toto."
HSienzant is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:49 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.