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Old 24th February 2018, 07:56 AM   #241
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The 'every witness was hallucination" routine. Been there. May as well argue that for what evidence you have in the face of the HSCA earshot experiment.
He said 20% of the earwitnesses were mistaken. Not all of them. And he said nothing about hallucinations. When you have to misstate the claims to rebut them that should be a big clue to anyone reading this thread you don't have a rebuttal.

Summary:
You misstate the premise (claiming he omitted the table, but he didn't).
You misstate the conclusion (claiming he said every was hallucinating, but he didn't)

This is a FAIL by you.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 24th February 2018 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 24th February 2018, 08:05 AM   #242
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
And you're also forgetting that the "world's best snipers and Olympic snipers" in fact couldn't replicate the single-assassin scinareo and that is not a flub by me whatsoever.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisb...Item%2001A.pdf

That's simply CT Tom Rossley repeating an old conspiracy myth. If you think it has veracity, cite for it.



Volume III pge. 441 starts the testimony of Ronald Simmons, whose -e is: Chief of the Infantry Weapons Evaluation Branch of the Ballistics Research Laboratory of the Department of the Army, in a nutshell he used three NRA MASTERS Staley, Miller and Hendrix (capable of Olympic competition) in an attempt to duplicate the accuracy and timing attributed to Oswald. Their reenactments were under better conditions than Oswald contended with.

1. All the time they wanted to aim first shot.

2. No oak tree obscuring their vision.

3. Thirty feet up instead of the sixth floor

4. Targets two feet square.

5. Stationary targets as opposed to a moving target.

6. Had advantage of shimmed scope for accuracy.

7. Targets. No pressure of killing a President of the U.S.

NEEDLESS TO SAY, THREE NRA "MASTERS" COULD NOT DUPLICATE SHOOTING SKILLS OF ONE LONE NUT NAMED LEE HARVEY OSWALD.
You're simply quoting a conspiracy theorist's opinion as your support for your own conspiracy theorist opinion. Sorry, that's meaningless.

And they all bettered Oswald's time and shooting ability. "Duplicating" is a false premise. All Oswald set out to do was shoot the President. And he certainly didn't set out to do it in a particular way. He merely wanted the President dead. Asking anyone to duplicate the feat is a false premise.

I could flip a coin 20 times and get a particular succession of heads and tails. Asking anyone to DUPLICATE EXACTLY my particular succession of heads and tails is next to impossible (it's one chance out of two to the 20th power). But it wasn't hard for me to do at all. I just flipped a coin 20 times.

This has been explained to you numerous times in the past. You ignored it every time and just recycle the same arguments over and over.

Full fringe reset mode.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 24th February 2018 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 24th February 2018, 08:21 AM   #243
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
An actual grown-up discussion: Neurologist Michael Chesser has presented evidence that Kennedy's skull X-rays depict a small hole in the forehead above the right eye, with bone fallen somewhat inward. If a hole in the forehead above the right eye did exist, then this wound was not discussed by the autopsy pathologists.
False. They found the wound of exit.

https://www.archives.gov/files/resea...ppendix-09.pdf
"... At one angle of the largest of these fragments is the portion of the perimeter of a roughly circular wound presumably of exit which exhibits beveling on the outer aspect of the bone... Roentgenograms of this fragment reveal minute particles of metal in the bone at the margin... "

They found the exit wound in the bone fragment brought from Dallas.

Please note where they placed the exit wound in the drawing prepared to illustrate the wound.
https://history-matters.com/archive/...ol16_0504b.htm

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 24th February 2018 at 08:41 AM.
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Old 24th February 2018, 08:23 AM   #244
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
So what? A single high-powered round entering next to the EOP almost certainly can't replicate Kennedy's wounds as shown on the official evidence.
BUT, but, but .... You already quoted a medical authority who said it did EXACTLY that!
Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Dr. Peter Cummings is a case of one forensic pathologist who believes the X-rays suggest a single missile striking slightly above the EOP and exiting the top-right side of the head!
Did you forget that already?

Can you make up your mind about what happened?

Or are you now arguing the medical authority YOU CITED to support your argument is WRONG?

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 24th February 2018 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 24th February 2018, 09:30 AM   #245
HSienzant
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
You appear to claim that
1. JFK was shot from the front right, and not from behind

2. The shots came from the Grassy Knoll

3. Echoes cannot be responsible for different witnesses hearing shots coming
Actually, as far as I can see, he's actually claiming additional shots from behind, with a suppressed weapon or two, and the witnesses who heard grassy knoll shots were "confused" by the sound of that (or those) weapon(s).

So he's arguing for confused witnesses too.

But for a different reason... believe it or not, he thinks "confused grassy knoll witnesses" lend support for his unseen assassin firing an unseen weapon that fired unseen bullets that caused unseen damage to anyone or anything.

Yeah, "What's The Opposite of Occam's Razor" is my question, too.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 24th February 2018 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 24th February 2018, 09:31 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
[snip] BS
NEEDLESS TO SAY, THREE NRA "MASTERS" COULD NOT DUPLICATE SHOOTING SKILLS OF ONE LONE NUT NAMED LEE HARVEY OSWALD.[/color]
I have watched several demonstrations concerning the assassination and those included shooters duplicating the three shots two of which hit JFK where the autopsy reported. Have you not seen any of these? I have suggested before that you get you nose out of CT published material and go to the facts. Don't ignore the facts simply because they may not agree with your beliefs.
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Old 24th February 2018, 09:34 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
An actual grown-up discussion: Neurologist Michael Chesser has presented evidence that Kennedy's skull X-rays depict a small hole in the forehead above the right eye, with bone fallen somewhat inward. If a hole in the forehead above the right eye did exist, then this wound was not discussed by the autopsy pathologists.

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-k...in-photographs

https://statick2k-5f2f.kxcdn.com/ima...uston-2017.pdf

http://jfkhistory.com/riehl/rfig16.gif

This is the same defect on the lateral skull X-ray that neurologist Joseph Riley argued was a small hole in the skull.

http://jfkhistory.com/riehl/What_Struck_John.html
The "wound" wasn't in the autopsy report simply because it isn't/wasn't am entry wound. You fail again and again.
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Old 24th February 2018, 11:34 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
...
And you're also forgetting that the "world's best snipers and Olympic snipers" in fact couldn't replicate the single-assassin scinareo and that is not a flub by me whatsoever.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisb...Item%2001A.pdf

Volume III pge. 441 starts the testimony of Ronald Simmons, whose -e is: Chief of the Infantry Weapons Evaluation Branch of the Ballistics Research Laboratory of the Department of the Army, in a nutshell he used three NRA MASTERS Staley, Miller and Hendrix (capable of Olympic competition) in an attempt to duplicate the accuracy and timing attributed to Oswald. Their reenactments were under better conditions than Oswald contended with.

1. All the time they wanted to aim first shot.

2. No oak tree obscuring their vision.

3. Thirty feet up instead of the sixth floor

4. Targets two feet square.

5. Stationary targets as opposed to a moving target.

6. Had advantage of shimmed scope for accuracy.

7. Targets. No pressure of killing a President of the U.S.

NEEDLESS TO SAY, THREE NRA "MASTERS" COULD NOT DUPLICATE SHOOTING SKILLS OF ONE LONE NUT NAMED LEE HARVEY OSWALD.
Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
You're simply quoting a conspiracy theorist's opinion as your support for your own conspiracy theorist opinion. Sorry, that's meaningless.

And they all bettered Oswald's time and shooting ability. "Duplicating" is a false premise. All Oswald set out to do was shoot the President. And he certainly didn't set out to do it in a particular way. He merely wanted the President dead. Asking anyone to duplicate the feat is a false premise.

I could flip a coin 20 times and get a particular succession of heads and tails. Asking anyone to DUPLICATE EXACTLY my particular succession of heads and tails is next to impossible (it's one chance out of two to the 20th power). But it wasn't hard for me to do at all. I just flipped a coin 20 times.

This has been explained to you numerous times in the past. You ignored it every time and just recycle the same arguments over and over.

Full fringe reset mode.

Hank
Some of those "better conditions" objections are pretty specious anyway. For example-
Quote:
2. No oak tree obscuring their vision.
The oak tree was out of the way by, what, Z210? If you want to duplicate LHO's timing and accuracy, then it makes no sense to impose an obstacle on the re-enactors that Oswald didn't have by the time he began his shooting (or at least by the time the first effect of any shot can be seen).
Quote:
3. Thirty feet up instead of the sixth floor
5. Stationary targets as opposed to a moving target.
Taking these two together (a little out of order, but the same idea applies to both)- I'll admit, I'm no rifleman, but it seems to me that these "better conditions" are actually worse ones. As a very crude analogy, shooting a fish in a barrel is harder if you make the angle shallower, shooting more across than down. As for the "stationary target" thing- because Oswald was shooting at that steeper angle at a target moving downward and away in effectively a straight line, his target was, in fact, relatively stationary in respect to him- his own movement was minimized. But shooting at actually stationary targets, at different distances at a shallower angle, means that that the rifleman- the re-enactor- had to move to compensate for the target not doing so. And remember, these re-enactors, unlike Oswald, weren't familiar with the action of the bolt of the trigger- from here:
Quote:
Mr. Eisenberg: How much practice had they had with the weapon, Exhibit 139, before they began firing?

Mr. Simmons: They had each attempted the exercise without the use of ammunition, and had worked the bolt as they tried the exercise. They had not pulled the trigger during the exercise, however, because we were a little concerned about breaking the firing pin.

Mr. Eisenberg: Could you give us an estimate of how much time they used in this dry-run practice, each?

Mr. Simmons: They used no more than 2 or 3 minutes each.

Mr. Eisenberg: Did they make any comments concerning the weapon?

Mr. Simmons: Yes; there were several comments made particularly with respect to the amount of effort required to open the bolt. As a matter of fact, Mr. Staley had, difficulty in opening the bolt in his first firing exercise. He thought it was completely up and it was not, and he had to retrace his steps as he attempted to open the bolt after the first round.
There was also comment made about the trigger pull which is different as far as these firers are concerned. It is in effect a two-stage operation where the first--in the first stage the trigger is relatively free, and it suddenly required a greater pull to actually fire the weapon.
To sum up- re-enactors having to move themselves and a rifle they were unfamiliar with to simulate the movement of a target is not a "better condition" than Oswald firing a rifle he'd practiced with at a target that was in a position throughout which minimized his own movements.

Next "better condition"-
Quote:
4. Targets two feet square.
They could have been ten feet square for all the difference this makes- if the issue is accuracy, then the placing of the hits is what matters, not how big the surrounding area is.

Quote:
6. Had advantage of shimmed scope for accuracy.
This whole "shims" issue is a red herring- from what I can understand, they were placed because the rifle, as received by the labs, was difficult to test in that condition. But (from here, near the bottom of the page):
Quote:
Representative Boggs: Excuse me just a moment. Do you have any opinion on whether or not the sight was deliberately set that way?

Mr. Frazier: No, sir; I do not. And I think I must say here that this mount was loose on the rifle when we received it. And apparently the scope had even been taken off of the rifle, in searching for fingerprints on the rifle. So that actually the way it was sighted-in when we got it does not necessarily mean it was sighted-in that way when it was abandoned.
(My bold)
So the "shims" issue is framed as a "better condition" only on the assumption that the rifle as received, and needing correction for testing, was the same as the way Oswald used it.

Finally-
Quote:
7. Targets. No pressure of killing a President of the U.S.
Gotta love this one. Not only does it assume that the "pressure of killing a President" would have been a significant obstacle to Oswald in achieving what was, after all, his aim- the idea seems to be that the only equitable condition for the re-enactors to duplicate the accuracy and timing required to kill a President would have been for them to kill another one. I can just hear that conversation with LBJ-

"Mr. President, would you mind awfully going back down to Dallas for a bit and riding down Elm St. in that limo?...Well, sir, we need to re-enact as exactly as possible the conditions of the assassination, which requires our enactors to fire at a President in the car...Well, yes sir- live fire, actual bullets and all that...What's that, Mr. President? Suck your what?"
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Old 24th February 2018, 11:54 AM   #249
turingtest
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This is separate from the above, and actually irrelevant, but some of that stuff from MJ's source would make great stundies if that was still an active thing here-
Quote:
A lot has been lost in this Country since 1963. If you stop and think about it. The Biggest Asset that made this "The Greatest Country in the History of Mankind" is the fact that America was known as "The Melting Pot of The World."
A Melting Pot is a process of taking everything available and putting all of it into one pot and melting it all down to ONE ENTITY. Like throwing into the pot some of each, Iron, Brass, Tin, Gold, Lead, ect. (What comes out is a Monument to Strength.)
What we have BECOME over the years is a TOSSED SALAD. Because of whom we have chosen to listen to, as a Nation we have each become a SEPERATE ENTITY. (i.e.) Lettice Group, Onion Group, Tomato Group, and so on. Let's look at each group individually, Are they a Minority? or a Majority? (Are they 51% of the total
Population of the United States?) German (Minority) French
ff Italian
ff Irish
PP Spanish African Swedish
ft Greek
ft Israeli
ff Polish Turkish
ft Oriental
If Young Old
ff Fat Thin (
If Man Woman
ECT.ECT.ECT. WE ARE "ALL" MINORITIES! !!IN TRUTH THE MINORITY IS THE MAJORITY!!
JUST AN OPINION! BUT, I'm very pleased knowing that every day that GOD lets me wake up that, I have for my pleasure the option of: German Beer, French Bread, Italian Salami, Irish Grandchildren, Spanish Passion, African Music, Swedish Meatballs, Greek Olives Jewish Corned Beef, Polish Ham Turkish Tobacco and collectively, The Beauty of a Young Thin Oriental Woman. ECT.ECT.ECT.
(Formatting got a little lost in copying- the "ff"'s and so on are supposed to be "dittos" for each of the categories, like Italian, Irish, Fat-Thin, Man-woman, and so forth, as minorities like German)
Quote:
Due to the erosion of the credibilty of the pillars of our society from local representatives, all the way to the Oval office itself I consider an EXPERT in two catagories:
EX= a has been
SPURT= a drip under pressure (phonetic)
Quote:
There appears to be a bottleneck on determining what's right and wrong in this country today. Well I just happened to have been an expert on matters concerning bottles. And, drawing on that PHD allows me to state that "ALL BOTTLENECKS ARE AT THE TOP."
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Life was a short shelf that came with bookends- Stephen King
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Old 24th February 2018, 12:21 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
I have watched several demonstrations concerning the assassination and those included shooters duplicating the three shots two of which hit JFK where the autopsy reported. Have you not seen any of these? I have suggested before that you get you nose out of CT published material and go to the facts. Don't ignore the facts simply because they may not agree with your beliefs.
He's seen them, he claims they're all rigged as per commentary from JFK-CT sites.
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Old 24th February 2018, 02:32 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
"Mr. President, would you mind awfully going back down to Dallas for a bit and riding down Elm St. in that limo?...Well, sir, we need to re-enact as exactly as possible the conditions of the assassination, which requires our enactors to fire at a President in the car...Well, yes sir- live fire, actual bullets and all that...What's that, Mr. President? Suck your what?"
LOVING IT!

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 24th February 2018, 03:07 PM   #252
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I am an average to good shooter (20 years in the Air Force, every year qualified, eight of which I won marksman's badges). For those, I used to shoot a Belgian made 7.62mm FN-FAL



This involved shooting 55 shots at a target 5" wide by 7" high from various firing positions, e.g. prone, standing, kneeling & sitting at ranges of 100 and 200 metres, including snap shooting (10 shots in 5 two-shot pairs, on the command "Fire").

A score of 42/55 (75%) is required to qualify, and 49/55 (90%) to get a marksman's badge. This was all done using notch & pin "iron sights" only... NO telescopic sights.

For the JFK shoot (using a telescopic sighted rifle) three shots at a torso and head sized target at a range of 88 yards, moving away at 12 mph, with only two of the three shots hitting and only one hitting the head, is a shot I could make any day of the week with any high powered rifle given enough time to:

1. sight-in the rifle and telescopic sight,
2. practice with the rifle so that I familiarize myself with its quirks,
3. practice the shot

I reckon I would need about to full days of practice to be sure of making that shot. Oswald had weeks.
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Old 24th February 2018, 03:34 PM   #253
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In general terms...

It seems that a great many CT proponents follow a kind of script.

Once they have thrashed to death their particular bone of contention, they go AWOL for a while. Then, when they think the heat has died down, the return and wheel out the very same nonsense that has been destroyed as though it had never happened. Of course, they ignore the fact that everyone has done this to death several times over and that whatever "facts" they cite have been firmly put to bed over and over again as abject rubbish in favour of a "fringe" reset.

The next step is to claim that the refuted claim was never refuted at all, ever. This comes to full fruition in the likes of cluesforum, who are happily telling the few who will listen that the recent Florida shooting was fake and banning anyone who dissents.

This is the kind of reality that such people actually want.

Those kind of people do not want facts, or evidence, or even reality. They just want a scary story and a tall tale to tell in order to impress others.
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Old 24th February 2018, 07:00 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
False. They found the wound of exit.

https://www.archives.gov/files/resea...ppendix-09.pdf
"... At one angle of the largest of these fragments is the portion of the perimeter of a roughly circular wound presumably of exit which exhibits beveling on the outer aspect of the bone... Roentgenograms of this fragment reveal minute particles of metal in the bone at the margin... "

They found the exit wound in the bone fragment brought from Dallas.

Please note where they placed the exit wound in the drawing prepared to illustrate the wound.
https://history-matters.com/archive/...ol16_0504b.htm

Hank
The story from the pathologists goes that they couldn't find a beveled exit anywhere near the large defect until the skull fragment shipped from Dallas was fit back in.

The autopsy photographs contradict this story, however. The open-cranium photographs depict a textbook beveled exit on the edge of the large defect.

The pathologists never said anything about an exit wound in the forehead. They claimed they didn't recognize the beveled exit when they were shown the photographs.

The autopsy pathologists never said there was a small, individual hole above the right eyebrow like Michael Chesser and Joe Riley made the case for.

And it's hard to disagree. I mean, the skull bone does appear to be slightly depressed in that area. The autopsy photographs are ambiguous as to showing any hole there, the x-rays are a harder scientific subject.
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Old 24th February 2018, 07:01 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
In general terms...

It seems that a great many CT proponents follow a kind of script.

Once they have thrashed to death their particular bone of contention, they go AWOL for a while. Then, when they think the heat has died down, the return and wheel out the very same nonsense that has been destroyed as though it had never happened. Of course, they ignore the fact that everyone has done this to death several times over and that whatever "facts" they cite have been firmly put to bed over and over again as abject rubbish in favour of a "fringe" reset.

The next step is to claim that the refuted claim was never refuted at all, ever. This comes to full fruition in the likes of cluesforum, who are happily telling the few who will listen that the recent Florida shooting was fake and banning anyone who dissents.

This is the kind of reality that such people actually want.

Those kind of people do not want facts, or evidence, or even reality. They just want a scary story and a tall tale to tell in order to impress others.
Actually, it's called having a job and a life. I think I post on here plenty for anyone's tastes. I would have to be mentally unwell to respond to literally every BS-fillibuster post in this thread.
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Old 24th February 2018, 07:04 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
This is separate from the above, and actually irrelevant, but some of that stuff from MJ's source would make great stundies if that was still an active thing here-

(Formatting got a little lost in copying- the "ff"'s and so on are supposed to be "dittos" for each of the categories, like Italian, Irish, Fat-Thin, Man-woman, and so forth, as minorities like German)
Turingtest, the Warren Commission was literally run by Allen Dulles, a man who covered up the Nazi concentration camps to protect American business interests. I think your side is the side in question.
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Old 24th February 2018, 07:11 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Turingtest, the Warren Commission was literally run by Allen Dulles, a man who covered up the Nazi concentration camps to protect American business interests. I think your side is the side in question.
Is this another of your batcrap crazy CTs?
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Old 24th February 2018, 07:17 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Turingtest, the Warren Commission was literally run by Allen Dulles, a man who covered up the Nazi concentration camps to protect American business interests. I think your side is the side in question.
Was the shot impossible for everyone? Or just Oswald?
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Old 24th February 2018, 07:18 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
BUT, but, but .... You already quoted a medical authority who said it did EXACTLY that!


Did you forget that already?

Can you make up your mind about what happened?

Or are you now arguing the medical authority YOU CITED to support your argument is WRONG?

Hank
Hank, Dr. Cummings only argued a single head shot from the EOP based on his interpretation of the skull fracture patterns on the X-rays. He did not weigh in on the trajectory required, pattern of brain damage, fragment dispersal, etc.

The point is that he looked at the original X-rays and didn't see an entry hole in the cowlick.

You have tried repeating this same exact comment several times and every time I explain the same basic concept that you would've known read the article. There is no way you keep making the same accident. Will you please stop that and instead provide some compelling evidence or arguments for your alternative entry wound location 4-5 inches above the EOP?

Last edited by MicahJava; 24th February 2018 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 24th February 2018, 07:31 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Hank, Dr. Cummings only argued a single head shot from the EOP based on his interpretation of the skull fracture patterns on the X-rays. He did not weigh in on the trajectory required, pattern of brain damage, fragment dispersal, etc.

The point is that he looked at the original X-rays and didn't see an entry hole in the cowlick.

You have tried repeating this nonsense several times and every time I explain the same basic concept thatt you would get if you read the article. Will you pleasestop that and provide some compelling evidence or arguments for your alternative entry wound 4-5 inches above the EOP?
What is your opinion of the overwhelming evidence for one entry and one exit in the skull and all the shots coming from Oswald's M-C from the sixth floor of the TSBD?
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Old 24th February 2018, 07:34 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
What is your opinion of the overwhelming evidence for one entry and one exit in the skull and all the shots coming from Oswald's M-C from the sixth floor of the TSBD?
There was a small wound next to Kennedy's EOP. Any wound of entry besides that was created by a separate missile.
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Old 24th February 2018, 07:54 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
There was a small wound next to Kennedy's EOP. Any wound of entry besides that was created by a separate missile.
Did the official evidence you've been citing find another entry wound or another exit wound?
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Old 24th February 2018, 08:06 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
Did the official evidence you've been citing find another entry wound or another exit wound?
I presume that you believe CE567 is the nose of the bullet that entered the back of Kennedy's skull and exited the top of the head, creating the large defect. Did the bullet break apart as it was traveling through the head? If so, how did CE567 get such a large sampling of human skin lodged near the tip of the outer surface of the nose fragment?
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Old 24th February 2018, 10:45 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
There was a small wound next to Kennedy's EOP. Any wound of entry besides that was created by a separate missile.
Nope.

Only one shot to the head. It's on film, and there are plenty of eye-witnesses including the autopsy team.

This is the dumbest claim in 54 years.
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Old 24th February 2018, 10:46 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
I presume that you believe CE567 is the nose of the bullet that entered the back of Kennedy's skull and exited the top of the head, creating the large defect. Did the bullet break apart as it was traveling through the head? If so, how did CE567 get such a large sampling of human skin lodged near the tip of the outer surface of the nose fragment?
Yes, the bullet fragmented inside the head, everyone knows this, there is no mystery. We have most all of those fragments too.
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Old 24th February 2018, 10:55 PM   #266
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Turingtest, the Warren Commission was literally run by Allen Dulles, a man who covered up the Nazi concentration camps to protect American business interests. I think your side is the side in question.
Hardly.

No one can point to anything he covered up, and with the FBI, and DPD also continuing their investigations he would have had limited influence.
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Old 24th February 2018, 10:56 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The story from the pathologists goes that they couldn't find a beveled exit anywhere near the large defect until the skull fragment shipped from Dallas was fit back in.

The autopsy photographs contradict this story, however. The open-cranium photographs depict a textbook beveled exit on the edge of the large defect.

The pathologists never said anything about an exit wound in the forehead. They claimed they didn't recognize the beveled exit when they were shown the photographs.

The autopsy pathologists never said there was a small, individual hole above the right eyebrow like Michael Chesser and Joe Riley made the case for.

And it's hard to disagree. I mean, the skull bone does appear to be slightly depressed in that area. The autopsy photographs are ambiguous as to showing any hole there, the x-rays are a harder scientific subject.
You have not seen all of the pictures and all of the x-rays so you cannot say what they do or do not show.
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Old 24th February 2018, 11:01 PM   #268
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
Did the official evidence you've been citing find another entry wound or another exit wound?
I presume that you believe CE567 is the nose of the bullet that entered the back of Kennedy's skull and exited the top of the head, creating the large defect. Did the bullet break apart as it was traveling through the head? If so, how did CE567 get such a large sampling of human skin lodged near the tip of the outer surface of the nose fragment?
Answer the question asked.I assume you must have read it since you replied to it.

Since you are citing something, how many entry wounds exist, how many exit wounds.

You must know this, surely.
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Old 25th February 2018, 02:01 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Turingtest, the Warren Commission was literally run by Allen Dulles, a man who covered up the Nazi concentration camps to protect American business interests. I think your side is the side in question.
This is utterly untrue.
Quote:
In 1935 Dulles returned from a business trip to Germany appalled by the Nazi treatment of German Jews and, despite his brother's objections, led a movement within the law firm of Sullivan & Cromwell to close their Berlin office. As a result of Dulles' efforts, the Berlin office was closed and the firm ceased to conduct business in Nazi Germany.
Quote:
Dulles helped a number of German Jews, such as the banker Paul Kemper, escape to the United States from Nazi Germany.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Dulles
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Old 25th February 2018, 02:05 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Actually, it's called having a job and a life. I think I post on here plenty for anyone's tastes. I would have to be mentally unwell to respond to literally every BS-fillibuster post in this thread.
This thread would be half the size it is if you answered the numerous questions you keep running away from, and also acknowledged your multiple factual errors and lack of expertise in pretty much every relevant field.
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Old 25th February 2018, 07:00 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Hank, Dr. Cummings only argued a single head shot from the EOP based on his interpretation of the skull fracture patterns on the X-rays. He did not weigh in on the trajectory required, pattern of brain damage, fragment dispersal, etc.
He's a forensic pathologist, not a conspiracy theorist. The expert you cited says the bullet hit near the EOP and exited near the forehead. So stop claiming it's impossible.



Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The point is that he looked at the original X-rays and didn't see an entry hole in the cowlick.
No, the point is your own expert disagrees with you about the impossibility of the path you argue against. That won't change. You claim it can't be done. He says it was done.


Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
You have tried repeating this same exact comment several times and every time I explain the same basic concept that you would've known read the article. There is no way you keep making the same accident.
Back at you. Your own expert disagrees with you. You're done here.


Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Will you please stop that and instead provide some compelling evidence or arguments for your alternative entry wound location 4-5 inches above the EOP?
No need. I don't have to prove an alternative. Your argument, your burden of proof. You can't have forgotten all the logical fallacies I pointed out you were invoking already, could you?

Hank
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Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 25th February 2018, 07:05 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by turingtest View Post
Quote:
There appears to be a bottleneck on determining what's right and wrong in this country today. Well I just happened to have been an expert on matters concerning bottles. And, drawing on that PHD allows me to state that "ALL BOTTLENECKS ARE AT THE TOP."
He's never seen my ketchup bottle apparently.

Hank
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Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 25th February 2018, 07:16 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The story from the pathologists goes that they couldn't find a beveled exit anywhere near the large defect until the skull fragment shipped from Dallas was fit back in.

The autopsy photographs contradict this story, however. The open-cranium photographs depict a textbook beveled exit on the edge of the large defect.
So they did find it then. Thanks for that admission.


Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The pathologists never said anything about an exit wound in the forehead. They claimed they didn't recognize the beveled exit when they were shown the photographs.
That denial was decades later. Nobody put the exit wound in the forehead. Except sometimes you, when you argue the bullet would have to exit the face.


Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
The autopsy pathologists never said there was a small, individual hole above the right eyebrow like Michael Chesser and Joe Riley made the case for.
They found damage there from a bullet fragment.


Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
And it's hard to disagree. I mean, the skull bone does appear to be slightly depressed in that area. The autopsy photographs are ambiguous as to showing any hole there, the x-rays are a harder scientific subject.
So now you're back to arguing everyone is wrong and MicahJava knows best. We get that with every conspiracy theorist who stops by here.

Seriously, we get that with every conspiracy theorist who stops by here.

You're no different in that regard. You have a different theory than Robert Harris, and a different theory from other CTs, but so what? You all argue with the experts and you all set yourself up as knowing more than the experts. Even to the point where you argue with your own experts and your fellow CTs.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 25th February 2018, 07:33 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Turingtest, the Warren Commission was literally run by Allen Dulles...
According to what biography of Dulles?

Perhaps you might deign to tell us the full name of the Commission, and who it is named after, if you can figure that out?

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 25th February 2018, 07:57 AM   #275
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If it's not a depressed hole in the skull, what is it? Looks more like a wound than anything the cowlickers have brought to the table.


Edited by Loss Leader:  Image resized for readability. Please use the IMGW= tag. The above is IMGW=500.

Last edited by Loss Leader; 25th February 2018 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 25th February 2018, 08:32 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
If it's not a depressed hole in the skull, what is it? Looks more like a wound than anything the cowlickers have brought to the table.
Thanks for your layman's analysis, which will be given all the attention it deserves (none).

You've previously argued the HSCA forensic pathology panel (and forensic pathologists in general) don't know how to read X-rays.

So you're now substituting your layman's opinion for their expert opinion?

Hilarious.

Hank
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Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 25th February 2018, 08:35 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
<snip non-answer
Answer the question you quoted and didn't answer:

Did the official evidence you've been citing find another entry or exit wound?
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Old 25th February 2018, 09:24 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
https://i.imgur.com/7MP45wx.png

If it's not a depressed hole in the skull, what is it? Looks more like a wound than anything the cowlickers have brought to the table.
So no source or chain of evidential source or any damn thing. Close up? If you do not know how bovine that is, then there is little hope for you.

Feel free to share your expertise in X-Ray analysis, because you apparently have none.
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Old 25th February 2018, 09:53 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by MicahJava View Post
Turingtest, the Warren Commission was literally run by Allen Dulles, a man who covered up the Nazi concentration camps to protect American business interests. I think your side is the side in question.

No. You are merely attempting to poison the well by smearing Allen Dulles. Yes, Dulles initially thought Hitler might be good for Europe, on balance. So did Winston Churchill. But both quickly recognized Hitler as the monster he was. And Dulles, along with other high-ranking US officials, recruited some ex-Nazis for the CIA and other agencies after the war, because it was felt that their value in opposing the Soviets outweighed their actions as Nazis. An argument can be made that this was immoral, but you can't use that as an excuse to dismiss the Warren Report.

Further, the following is from a Daily Beast article by James A. Warren:
In the end, and with all due respect for Talbot’s dogged detective work, the case he makes for Dulles’s masterminding the assassination strikes me as far-fetched and highly speculative. Even if one grants the existence of a Dulles-led, malign, and anti-democratic network of “deep power” conspirators—a tall order in and of itself—it’s hard to see why they would see the need to liquidate Kennedy. Contrary to Talbot’s claims, JFK’s policies, foreign or domestic, simply did not pose a dire threat to “deep power” interests. As Columbia historian Alan Brinkley points out, the consensus among historians today is that JFK’s “differences with the hardliners … were mostly tactical not strategic.”

Finally, from a practical standpoint, is it at all plausible that John McCone, the Kennedy-appointed CIA director at the time of the assassination, stood by passively as the retired Dulles waltzed back into CIA headquarters two years after having been fired to spearhead the greatest conspiracy in U.S. history? And if Dulles was behind it all, one wonders why Robert Kennedy pleaded with President Johnson to ask the gentleman spy to serve on the commission to investigate the murder of his beloved brother. Was Bobby in on it, too?

Fail.
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Old 25th February 2018, 10:51 AM   #280
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This information about Allen Dulles I know from David Talbot's Devil's Chessboard. It's not like the book doesn't have a citation chapter, you know. It's an actual work of history.

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