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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 23rd March 2018, 06:39 AM   #241
Segnosaur
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Trump was not eligible.
His doctor claimed "bone spurs", a condition that Trump can't even remember which leg it affected. And a condition that he himself characterized as "minor". And lots of examples of him engaging is sports around that time frame.

And he also got educational deferments (i.e. ones that had nothing to do with his "bone spurs", which don't seem to have been an issue at the time). Seems to me that if he were some sort of patriot, he would have delayed his college for a couple of years so that he could participate in Vietnam.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/wash...htmlstory.html

You know, if Trump and his supporters weren't wrapping themselves in the flag and beating themselves on the chest about how patriotic they were, if they weren't attacking people who actually DID serve in active combat roles it probably wouldn't be an issue. But when you have a president who attacks gold star families and POWs, while personally avoiding combat, then I think that pretty much defines him as a hypocrite.
Quote:
John Bolton served.
He enrolled in the national guard, which was widely viewed as a way to avoid serving in Vietnam.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 06:43 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
He enrolled in the national guard, which was widely viewed as a way to avoid serving in Vietnam.
He explicitly said that he did it in order to avoid going to Vietnam.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 06:44 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
He explicitly said that he did it in order to avoid going to Vietnam.
Doesn’t matter, completely irrelevant.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 06:46 AM   #244
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post

He enrolled in the national guard, which was widely viewed as a way to avoid serving in Vietnam.
He served his country. There wasn't much need for submarines either. Do we want to mock the silent service, also?

Your issue was with willingness to follow orders. Did he not demonstrate a willingness to follow orders while serving in the military?

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 23rd March 2018 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 06:51 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Doesn’t matter, completely irrelevant.
Irrelevant to what issue?

It is not irrelevant to our judgment regarding the character and (your term) patriotism of John Bolton. It is quite relevant to those particular matters.

It may be irrelevant to other matters.

So, which matters do you think are under discussion?
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Old 23rd March 2018, 06:58 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Irrelevant to what issue?

It is not irrelevant to our judgment regarding the character and (your term) patriotism of John Bolton. It is quite relevant to those particular matters.

It may be irrelevant to other matters.

So, which matters do you think are under discussion?
Patriotism in this context is a funny thing. I went into DEP for the Navy July 2001. The cohort that showed up three months was always talked about as being patriotic. But I always had a problem with their alleged bona fides.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 07:02 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Irrelevant to what issue?

It is not irrelevant to our judgment regarding the character and (your term) patriotism of John Bolton. It is quite relevant to those particular matters.

It may be irrelevant to other matters.

So, which matters do you think are under discussion?
Go back to the beginning of the discussion. Post 120 and the post I was responding to.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 07:06 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Go back to the beginning of the discussion. Post 120 and the post I was responding to.
I just did. The logic of your post is that it is given people who serve in the military are patriots (or just the ones that will die). Therefore, based on that, it is not given that Trump is a patriot.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 07:15 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I just did. The logic of your post is that it is given people who serve in the military are patriots (or just the ones that will die). Therefore, based on that, it is not given that Trump is a patriot.
Correct, Trumps patriotism wasn’t my point.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 07:22 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
RE: Bolton...
Quote:
He enrolled in the national guard, which was widely viewed as a way to avoid serving in Vietnam
He served his country.
In a way that could be seen as doing the barest minimum possible, doing far less than others in similar situations had done.

Doesn't really seem that patriotic to me.

"Look at me! Super patriot! I love this country! What, you actually expect me to actually do as much as others have done?"
Quote:
There wasn't much need for submarines either. Do we want to mock the silent service, also?
What a bizarre non-sequitur.

I'm not that familiar with what navy personnel go through, but given the fact that the navy (including submarines) are not only an important part of the U.S. armed forces, and I suspect serving in it provides a certain type of risk and hardship not present in other branches of the military, I'm not about to mock those serving on board submarines.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 07:24 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
In a way that could be seen as doing the barest minimum possible, doing far less than others in similar situations had done.

Doesn't really seem that patriotic to me.

"Look at me! Super patriot! I love this country! What, you actually expect me to actually do as much as others have done?"

What a bizarre non-sequitur.

I'm not that familiar with what navy personnel go through, but given the fact that the navy (including submarines) are not only an important part of the U.S. armed forces, and I suspect serving in it provides a certain type of risk and hardship not present in other branches of the military, I'm not about to mock those serving on board submarines.
You're being bobbed.

The only thing that matters is that Bolton enrolled in the National Guard specifically to avoid serving in Vietnam.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 07:27 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
In a way that could be seen as doing the barest minimum possible, doing far less than others in similar situations had done.

Doesn't really seem that patriotic to me.

"Look at me! Super patriot! I love this country! What, you actually expect me to actually do as much as others have done?"

What a bizarre non-sequitur.

I'm not that familiar with what navy personnel go through, but given the fact that the navy (including submarines) are not only an important part of the U.S. armed forces, and I suspect serving in it provides a certain type of risk and hardship not present in other branches of the military, I'm not about to mock those serving on board submarines.
But you will judge the risk and hardship of those in the national guard?
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Old 23rd March 2018, 07:29 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Correct, Trumps patriotism wasn’t my point.
That doesn't make you immune from getting called out on the consequences of your point.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 07:30 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
You're being bobbed.

The only thing that matters is that Bolton enrolled in the National Guard specifically to avoid serving in Vietnam.
People signed up for specific army jobs to avoid being infantryman. Are they not patriots?
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Old 23rd March 2018, 07:31 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Because slanting Intel is reality? I guess if you’re the only person in intel that might be realistic.
Nope, the reality is there was no credible evidence that Iraq had restarted its nuclear program or was developing any chemical or biological WMDs, but the neocons simply ignored the gaps, disclaimers, caveats, and conflicting analyses in the raw intel and spun what was left as a certainty.

The Lies that Led to the Iraq War and the Persistent Myth of ‘Intelligence Failure’


Originally Posted by Foreign Policy Journal
There was no such “intelligence failure”. On the contrary, there was an extremely successful disinformation campaign coordinated by the CIA in furtherance of the government’s policy of seeking regime change in Iraq. The language of the document itself reveals a persistent dishonesty. It speaks of “deepened suspicions” that Iraq “had ongoing WMD programs” and “suspicions that Iraq continued to hide WMD.” Needless to say, however, the Iraq war was not sold to the public on the grounds that government officials and intelligence agencies had “suspicions” that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (WMD). It was sold to the public with declarations that it was a known fact that Iraq had ongoing programs and stockpiles of WMD. The tacit acknowledgment that the actual evidence only supported “suspicions” that this was so by itself is proof of that the narrative of an “intelligence failure” is a fiction.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 08:11 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
H.R. McMaster is out as National Security Advisor.

John Bolton will take his place.
Which will be interesting given Bolton's views on Russia and Syria.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 08:13 AM   #259
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Tillerson was right about this one.

Quote:
“The postwar, rules-based international order is the greatest gift of the greatest generation,” Mattis told the president, according to two meeting attendees. The secretary of defense walked the president through the complex fabric of trade deals, military agreements and international alliances that make up the global system the victors established after World War II, touching off what one attendee described as a “food fight” and a “free for all” with the president and the rest of the group. Trump punctuated the session by loudly telling his secretaries of state and defense, at several points during the meeting, “I don’t agree!” The meeting culminated with Tillerson, his now ousted secretary of state, fatefully complaining after the president left the room, that Trump was “a *********** moron.”
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Old 23rd March 2018, 08:14 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie B View Post
H.R. McMaster is out as National Security Advisor.

John Bolton will take his place.
Does this mean that Trump was for the Iraq war again?
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Old 23rd March 2018, 08:43 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Does this mean that Trump was for the Iraq war again?
As of yesterday, he was never against it, again.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 08:44 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Jeez...who is left that the tariff is going to..well...tariff?
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Old 23rd March 2018, 08:56 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Doesn’t matter, completely irrelevant.
That... that... that doesn't count!!!
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Old 23rd March 2018, 09:05 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Correct, Trumps patriotism wasn’t my point.
Phew! Dodged a bullet there, didn't you?
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Old 23rd March 2018, 09:20 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Doesn’t matter, completely irrelevant.
Yes, you've said.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 09:37 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Correct, Trumps patriotism wasn’t my point.
What you post hoc declare to be your point is irrelevant.

The point you actually made, as determined by those who read your post, is the only thing relevant to the discussion.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 10:08 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by Molinaro View Post
What you post hoc declare to be your point is irrelevant.

The point you actually made, as determined by those who read your post, is the only thing relevant to the discussion.
Lol
No, My post was quite clear, others began piling on the straw men.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 10:11 AM   #269
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The relations between Trump and the congressional GOP has entered S and M territory;Trump keeps humilaitng them..like with the Veto threat...and the GOP congressman just bend over and say "Please Sir, Could I Have Another?".
GIven that Trump backed off of it so quickly, I think the main reason he did it was just to prove his dominance of the Congress.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 10:13 AM   #270
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As for Fox News and it's owner, I intend to do a Snoopy Happy Dange the day that Rupert Murdoch kicks the bucket.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 10:35 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol
No, My post was quite clear, others began piling on the straw men.
Pointing out the logical conclusion of something you say is not a straw man. If you don't like that kind of thing, you'd be better off thinking a little before you post, rather than just spouting off whatever knee-jerk thing first occurs to you.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 10:36 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
And the intellectual property thefts?
And the borrowing?
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Old 23rd March 2018, 10:40 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Pointing out the logical conclusion of something you say is not a straw man. If you don't like that kind of thing, you'd be better off thinking a little before you post, rather than just spouting off whatever knee-jerk thing first occurs to you.
Stating how patriotic our military men and women are and that they are ready and willing to go wherever they are called is very clear. That others who despise this president and want to add their own spin to my point, does not change my point.

So again, your conclusion to my point is not only wrong but once again, IRRELEVANT.

As far as spouting off, my point was clear, you might take your own advice.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 10:41 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
And the borrowing?
The link was specifically about intellectual property thefts.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 11:05 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Stating how patriotic our military men and women are and that they are ready and willing to go wherever they are called is very clear.
It is. It's also not what you said. Perhaps it's what you intended to say, but then that just leads us back to the idea that you perhaps ought to think a little before starting to type.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 11:05 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Stating how patriotic our military men and women are and that they are ready and willing to go wherever they are called is very clear. That others who despise this president and want to add their own spin to my point, does not change my point.

So again, your conclusion to my point is not only wrong but once again, IRRELEVANT.

As far as spouting off, my point was clear, you might take your own advice.
We despise the President because he we feel he will send out military into combat when there are better alternatives available.
It will be Vietnam on steroids.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 11:07 AM   #277
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If nothing else, Trump's ill concealed contempt for actual diplomacy,and preference for bullying and threats should tell you his foreign policy will have a disasterous end.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 12:07 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
It is. It's also not what you said. Perhaps it's what you intended to say, but then that just leads us back to the idea that you perhaps ought to think a little before starting to type.
You’ve changed what I posted so many times, it’s not surprising you’re so confused about it. You should have just gone back and read the original post.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 12:08 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
We despise the President because he we feel he will send out military into combat when there are better alternatives available.
It will be Vietnam on steroids.
Weakness isn’t a better alternative.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 12:10 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
If nothing else, Trump's ill concealed contempt for actual diplomacy,and preference for bullying and threats should tell you his foreign policy will have a disasterous end.
Bullying and threats? Many times that is what’s needed.

The Dems approach is be nice to them and they’ll be nice to us. Look what that’s gotten us?
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