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#121 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 7,114
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Wow, really, an even smaller number that might as well be zero.
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REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life. |
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#122 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,441
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Are you still insisting that I might have made up naturalistic dualism?
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell |
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#123 |
Critical Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2009
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#124 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell |
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#125 |
Critical Thinker
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#126 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
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"How long you live, how high you fly The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry And all you touch, and all you see Is all your life will ever be." |
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#127 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"How long you live, how high you fly The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry And all you touch, and all you see Is all your life will ever be." |
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#128 |
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#129 |
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#130 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell |
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#131 |
Philosopher
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell |
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#132 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,656
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It would seem to me that the boundary is your physical body. No outside force affects you until it contacts your physical body. You don't see anything until light from it strikes your eyes. You don't hear anything until sound waves strike your ears. You don't feel anything until the sensation strikes receptors in your skin, etc.
An outside observer might not be able to tell but you are separate from your environment. A fire a few feet away maybe smaller than one a mile away but you will react to the one closer while ignoring the distant one. Obviously there is some sort of boundary.
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The fact that you identify these things demonstrates that they are separate from me although they maybe parasitically attached to me.
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#133 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"How long you live, how high you fly The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry And all you touch, and all you see Is all your life will ever be." |
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#134 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,441
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You probably want to keep the bacteria in your gut and on your skin.
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell |
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#135 |
Penultimate Amazing
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"How long you live, how high you fly The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry And all you touch, and all you see Is all your life will ever be." |
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#136 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
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When it comes to this replication thought experiment, it would be technology, so we could choose what to take or leave and the "you-ness" would be a pointless philosophical exercise.
So, it is if you want it to be, or isn't if you don't want it to. You can pick your own parameters for something like this. |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell |
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#137 |
Lackey
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Join Date: Aug 2001
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To your first part: Wrong thread Tommy.
My question was rather a simple question. To those that now think there are two Darats rather than individual DaratA and DaratB who owns the car? For me the answer is rather simple and goes back to why I wouldn't use the destructive transporter. DaratA owns the car because we can trace back his time line to when he purchased the car. Tough to be DaratB who can remember buying the car but didn't. |
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#138 |
Lackey
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#139 |
Lackey
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#140 |
Lackey
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#141 |
Lackey
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No, at no point in time did either of you share the same physical space so it is always possible to work out which one has a "real" history and which one just thinks it had.
This is why I said it had to be a form of transportation/copying that could work within how we know the world works, otherwise all we are doing is discussing fictional magic spells. |
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#142 |
Lackey
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I always see a problem of communication in this topic, thought I'd take a second to make sure it isn't happening this time.
I don't think anyone is claiming that there is some part of a person that cant be transported/copied, so there is no soul popping up here. I don't think anyone is claiming that the original and copy will share a single conciousnes. Everyone agrees that after the duplication there are two individuals, and their experiences and memories will diverge after the duplication. |
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#143 |
Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,104
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Are we really arguing about the possible ambiguities of the word 'you'?
It all depends on your definition. If you define 'you' as the continuation of your consciousness, both instances will be a version of you, even though you're also two different people from now on. And if you define 'you' as your original physical body, the copy won't be you, but someone else who just happens to share your past and physical make-up. The thing is, in the world as we know it, those two definitions denote the exact same thing, because we don't have a magical way of producing perfect copies of people. So we've never needed a word for 'you' that addresses that possibility. |
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#144 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,441
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There would be circumstances where being the duplicate would be ok. If nuclear Armageddon had just broken out, and copy & transport to a better place was the closest thing your original could think of as a consolation prize for facing imminent, painful death, discovering that YOU get to be the duplicate would be kind of awesome. Weird, but ok. Sucks for DaratA, in that case. lol
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell |
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#145 |
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell |
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#146 |
Lackey
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#147 |
Student
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 45
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i don't think it is particularly useful to jump in and start philosophising about the quantum teleportation, since most of the philosophical confusions of quantum mechanics are the result of conceptual confusions in relation to classical mechanics.
For example, what is meant by "the same state" in classical mechanics? Do we have a rigorous notion of "the same", even in our classical concepts? For example, in digital photography two pictures are considered "the same" if their image pixels are treated identically by a machine. But which machine? Don't machines malfunction and make mistakes like humans? Presumably we mean the "ideal" machine. But where is this "ideal" machine? Does it exist only in the mind? Presumably we mean a machine that is considered to be ideal according to the judgements of a more trustworthy higher authority. e.g, a committee of machine-testing machines. while committees of machines undoubtedly reduce the rate of errors relative to an individual machine, they nevertheless make mistakes and still cannot reduce uncertainty to zero, for we can never have an infinitely large committee - even in our imagination. So it must be that our concept of identicality is merely a pragmatic designation, even in the classical sense. We mere *treat* things as being the same according to our purposes and there is nothing more to be said. And the same could also be said of our more general concepts of "necessity" and "certainty". There aren't unambiguous notions of necessity or certainty, even in our classical concepts. |
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#148 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 39,015
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Lets preform and experiment, exhale your breath and hold your nose.
-How long can you wait before you allow yourself to breathe? Have a friend or casual stranger preform the same act. -Do you sense the the sensations of breathlessness and relieve when they do this? ![]() Even after rereading the series of posts I think my question still applies, I could be wrong. |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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#149 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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#150 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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#151 |
Fiend God
Join Date: Oct 2005
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#152 |
Philosopher
Join Date: Nov 2006
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REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life. |
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#153 |
Lackey
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#154 |
Lackey
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#155 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
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I am not sure I agree. Let's look at this from a slightly different angle. Suppose the ability to do transplants is perfected so we can transplant any, or any combination of, human part(s). There are two scenarios:
1) You have a diseased body that needs replacing or you will die. Your brain is very healthy. 2) You have a diseased brain that needs replacing or you will die. Your body is very healthy. So the transplants are done. In the first scenario your entire body is replaced. In the second scenario your entire brain is replaced. The questions: Is it still "you" in scenario 1? In scenario 2? Is it more "you" in one scenario than in the other? Is scenario 2 were you just "the parts" for someone else? How about in scenario 1? (In my view, you only survive in scenario 1. Scenario 2 means the survival of someone else.) |
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"How long you live, how high you fly The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry And all you touch, and all you see Is all your life will ever be." |
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#156 |
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REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life. |
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#157 |
Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 39,015
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Basically WTF are you thinking?
What is so different about consciousness that it gets a whole special category? This is you asserting a difference, can you delineate it in a fashion that is actually different than liver function or earthquake prediction? (Or is there just something special about consciousness? ![]() |
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I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar |
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#158 |
Philosopher
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The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts ~ Bertrand Russell |
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#159 |
Muse
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#160 |
Philosopher
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REJ (Robert E Jones) posting anonymously under my real name for 30 years. Make a fire for a man and you keep him warm for a day. Set him on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life. |
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