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Tags Paul Ryan , Wisconsin politics

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Old 11th April 2018, 11:59 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Afraid of what the house is going to look like after the mid-terms, perhaps?

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Old 11th April 2018, 12:00 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
I'm sure there must be a few Republicans who believe they have sold their soul with their backing of Trump. I wonder if Ryan is one of them.


A quote from "A Man for All Seasons" seems right here.

Thomas More is speaking to Richard Rich, who has just perjured himself under oath at the treason trial of More,and has been rewarded with a lucrative job in the government of Wales:

Quote:
Why Richard, it profits a man nothing to give his soul for the whole world... but for Wales?
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Old 11th April 2018, 12:18 PM   #43
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It's funny that, even in that article cited, most of you missed the GOP's position of this asshat.

"For its part, the Republican Party of Wisconsin has disavowed their new frontrunner. “Nehlen and his ideas have no place in the Republican Party,” said party spokesman Alec Zimmerman in February. Nehlen, who is still running as a Republican in August’s primary, disagrees."

Kind of important when people are slinging arrows at a party...

Also: http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc...f10827c98.html
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Old 11th April 2018, 12:25 PM   #44
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Right now there is probably an emergency meeting of the GOP Wisconsin Central Committee going on as they scramble to find a "respectable" GOP candidate for Ryan's district....

I suspect the national GOP will also get involved:
one Neo Nazi as an official candidate is enough.

Last edited by dudalb; 11th April 2018 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 11th April 2018, 12:37 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
It's funny that, even in that article cited, most of you missed the GOP's position of this asshat.

"For its part, the Republican Party of Wisconsin has disavowed their new frontrunner. “Nehlen and his ideas have no place in the Republican Party,” said party spokesman Alec Zimmerman in February. Nehlen, who is still running as a Republican in August’s primary, disagrees."

Kind of important when people are slinging arrows at a party...

Also: http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc...f10827c98.html
I think the point is that all of these individuals seem to pick the Republican party with some regularity. I would say that the party is to blame for giving people with these views the impression that they're welcome in the first place.
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Old 11th April 2018, 12:41 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
I think the point is that all of these individuals seem to pick the Republican party with some regularity. I would say that the party is to blame for giving people with these views the impression that they're welcome in the first place.
To be fair, all you have to do to run for a party primary is to join the party and all you have to do that is pretty much tell the local election officials you are registering as a member of said party.
Sort of hard to vet every member that joins in that situation.
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Old 11th April 2018, 12:46 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Re: Neo-Nazis associated with the Republicans...

I think the point is that all of these individuals seem to pick the Republican party with some regularity. I would say that the party is to blame for giving people with these views the impression that they're welcome in the first place.
What, can't a major political party work to supress minority votes for years, nominate a candidate who makes bigoted remarks during the election (rapist Mexicans), and then continues to give him a high level of support after their leader calls white supremacists "Fine people" without being seen as friendly to neo-nazis? Hardly seems fair.
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Old 11th April 2018, 12:48 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
It's funny that, even in that article cited, most of you missed the GOP's position of this asshat.

"For its part, the Republican Party of Wisconsin has disavowed their new frontrunner. “Nehlen and his ideas have no place in the Republican Party,” said party spokesman Alec Zimmerman in February. Nehlen, who is still running as a Republican in August’s primary, disagrees."

Kind of important when people are slinging arrows at a party...

Also: http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc...f10827c98.html
Listen, it's good that the GOP heads don't like the guy. I doubt he will ultimately be their candidate. However, the openly white supremacists got 16% of the vote against Paul Ryan. It was not like the choice was between a light-red RINO and the Nazi where the base wanted to send a message. What issues actually separate the men? One is openly vile and openly a white-supremacist. Therefore that's what those people were voting for. I can see some just voting against Ryan and maybe not even knowing who the other guy was, but 16%?

It isn't the party, but the base they have cultivated. Hopefully this comes to a head over a series of small rejections of the Nazi/Confederate/asshats that slowly leaks their influence away, but I predict violence as the Republicans try to dismount the tiger.
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Old 11th April 2018, 12:54 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
It's funny that, even in that article cited, most of you missed the GOP's position of this asshat.

"For its part, the Republican Party of Wisconsin has disavowed their new frontrunner. “Nehlen and his ideas have no place in the Republican Party,” said party spokesman Alec Zimmerman in February. Nehlen, who is still running as a Republican in August’s primary, disagrees."

Kind of important when people are slinging arrows at a party...

Also: http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/loc...f10827c98.html
Yet again...

The current GOP leader made white supremacism a prominent part of his platform, and has enthusiastically moved to enact such, ignoring severe issues in Puerto Rico, pushing for more police militarization and voter disenfranchisement, and so forth. His DoJ has basically stood down on police brutality. His first senior advisor worked with a Klansman to help bring outright white nationalism into mainstream GOP politics. We've seen other segregationists, child molesters, and various disgusting people run for public office with their approval. They've rolled back Civil Rights protections in housing, lending, and hiring, worked to kick trans people out of the military, are *still* mad at the very idea of two dudes kissing in public, and all but blew kisses at the Charlottesville terrorism jamboree.

And that's leaving a lot out of the past year or two. Did you hear that Flint's been abandoned by the GOP yet again?

They're in a soccer game, down by 10, and all but 1 of those are own goals. If they put up a full assault on the current president's bigotry, I'll start to take them seriously. Until then, this guy fits in perfectly.
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Old 11th April 2018, 12:58 PM   #50
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It's interesting that Ryan gave as one of his reasons for leaving was that his kids have only known him as "a weekend Dad." That's a reference to the fact that most congressmen and many senators are only in Washington a few days a week, sometimes just renting a room (not even an apartment) in Washington or even sleeping on their office couch. They think of their district as their only home.

That is a fairly recent development. There was a time when congressmen moved their families to the Washington area, as almost anyone else would when they take a new job. They used to socialize with each other after hours, and participate in the cultural and recreational life of Washington. People with different views still knew and respected each other. Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill famously were drinking buddies. It has contributed a lot to the polarization of politics that these people actually spend as little time with each other as they can get away with.
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:04 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Listen, it's good that the GOP heads don't like the guy. I doubt he will ultimately be their candidate. However, the openly white supremacists got 16% of the vote against Paul Ryan. It was not like the choice was between a light-red RINO and the Nazi where the base wanted to send a message. What issues actually separate the men? One is openly vile and openly a white-supremacist. Therefore that's what those people were voting for. I can see some just voting against Ryan and maybe not even knowing who the other guy was, but 16%?

It isn't the party, but the base they have cultivated. Hopefully this comes to a head over a series of small rejections of the Nazi/Confederate/asshats that slowly leaks their influence away, but I predict violence as the Republicans try to dismount the tiger.
The GOP has nobody but itself to blame. In 2009, in a panic after Obama won, they invited into the party a number of groups and individuals they has more or less frozen out the past. Now it is coming around to haunt them.

That;s the problem with making a Deal With Devil:he always comes around to collect.

or, if you prefer: Lie Down With The Dogs, Expect To Get Fleas.
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:05 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Right now there is probably an emergency meeting of the GOP Wisconsin Central Committee going on as they scramble to find a "respectable" GOP candidate for Ryan's district....

I suspect the national GOP will also get involved:
one Neo Nazi as an official candidate is enough.
Especially in a district they could actually win.

But think how much Ryan's total failure to destroy medicare and social security must stick in his craw.
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:06 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
To be fair, all you have to do to run for a party primary is to join the party and all you have to do that is pretty much tell the local election officials you are registering as a member of said party.
Sort of hard to vet every member that joins in that situation.
This guy is not exactly new either. He ran in 2016 after all.
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:07 PM   #54
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And Ryan's district is considered, without Ryan and his incumbency factor, to be very competitive. If that asshat Nehlen does get the GOP nod, the Dems have a very good chance to win the district.
I suspect a lot of money is going to be poured into the distriect over the next few weeks by the GOP to prevent the Neo Nazi from getting the nomination. One Neo Nazi as an official GOP Candidate is enough....and in a way it's worse then Illinois because the GOP had little hope of winning that Illinois seat anyway.
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:10 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
This guy is not exactly new either. He ran in 2016 after all.
Yeah, but I give the Wisconsin GOP a bit more pity then I do the Illinois GOP because the Ryan de facto resignation post dated to January did come out of the blue.
it's really hard to stop a nutcase from running in your party's primary.
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:13 PM   #56
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Postdated? Ryan is staying until January 2019. There is a (nearly?) full election cycle ahead.
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:13 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yeah, but I give the Wisconsin GOP a bit more pity then I do the Illinois GOP because the Ryan de facto resignation post dated to January did come out of the blue.
it's really hard to stop a nutcase from running in your party's primary.
But is someone who gets 16% against a seemingly popular incumbent truly a nutcase by the parties own standards?
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:16 PM   #58
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Tired of being bent over for trumpf most likely.
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:16 PM   #59
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The one piece of luck for the GOP is that the primary for Ryan's district does not take place until August 14th, with June Ist being the deadline for registering as a candidate, so they have a fair amount of time to field a halfway respectable Candidate.
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:17 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Listen, it's good that the GOP heads don't like the guy.
Correction... the GOP heads don't like what the guy will do to the party as a candidate.

We really don't know what the GOP heads actually think of him as a person, or what they think of his policies. They could be quite happy with the idea of a neo-Nazi in congress, but just don't like the optics of it.

Given the fact that those same GOP heads continued to work within the republican party after Donald "Mexican rapists" Trump became the presidential candidate, I think its right to assume they really aren't that opposed to racism, as long as it doesn't cause them to lose elections.
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:18 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by RecoveringYuppy View Post
Postdated? Ryan is staying until January 2019. There is a (nearly?) full election cycle ahead.
My bad, He stay until Jan. 19th.
But let's not get this whole semantic argument started again. I still maintain that Ryan's decisioin not to run amounts to a postdated resignation, though.
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:23 PM   #62
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Yeah, it does seem like even though he's met the letter of the law regarding dates that he's still leaving the GOP with a bit of a late start.
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:27 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Correction... the GOP heads don't like what the guy will do to the party as a candidate.

We really don't know what the GOP heads actually think of him as a person, or what they think of his policies. They could be quite happy with the idea of a neo-Nazi in congress, but just don't like the optics of it.

Given the fact that those same GOP heads continued to work within the republican party after Donald "Mexican rapists" Trump became the presidential candidate, I think its right to assume they really aren't that opposed to racism, as long as it doesn't cause them to lose elections.
As much as I dislike what a lot of the GOP has become, I think a "Everybody in the GOP is Evil" viewpoint is a bit much.
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:27 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The GOP has nobody but itself to blame. In 2009, in a panic after Obama won, they invited into the party a number of groups and individuals they has more or less frozen out the past. Now it is coming around to haunt them.

That;s the problem with making a Deal With Devil:he always comes around to collect.

or, if you prefer: Lie Down With The Dogs, Expect To Get Fleas.
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And Ryan's district is considered, without Ryan and his incumbency factor, to be very competitive. If that asshat Nehlen does get the GOP nod, the Dems have a very good chance to win the district.
I suspect a lot of money is going to be poured into the distriect over the next few weeks by the GOP to prevent the Neo Nazi from getting the nomination. One Neo Nazi as an official GOP Candidate is enough....and in a way it's worse then Illinois because the GOP had little hope of winning that Illinois seat anyway.
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Yeah, but I give the Wisconsin GOP a bit more pity then I do the Illinois GOP because the Ryan de facto resignation post dated to January did come out of the blue.
it's really hard to stop a nutcase from running in your party's primary.
I agree with this completely. If the Wisconsin GOP does not nominate someone, much like the Illinois seat issue, then I will condemn them for making a horrible choice and catering to Neo-Nazis. Until that happens, I think the rational approach would be "wait and see".

Question: can a party do anything about someone running as a candidate from said party? Does it have any recourse besides public disavowal?
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:43 PM   #65
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I asked this in another thread that was probably not the right place for it: What does the Dem side look like in this district?
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:44 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
Question: can a party do anything about someone running as a candidate from said party? Does it have any recourse besides public disavowal?
No. If they meet the qualifications they get on the ballot. The qualifications do not have ideological tests, typically.
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:47 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
As much as I dislike what a lot of the GOP has become, I think a "Everybody in the GOP is Evil" viewpoint is a bit much.
There are some, like George Will and Max Boot, who left the party. I don't ever agree with those guys, but they did see it going off the rails, and bailed.

Now that Trumpism has eclipsed the GOP's traditional small-government, free-trade, pro-democracy, family values platform, I have to wonder why anyone who doesn't like Trump is still with the party.

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Old 11th April 2018, 01:52 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
No. If they meet the qualifications they get on the ballot. The qualifications do not have ideological tests, typically.
As an open Neo Nazi being the official GOP candidate for a house seat in Illinois shows...The GOP has no way of removing him from the ballot,although they would love to.

In many states, all you have do to be eligible for a party primaty is fulfill the residency requirements..generally you have to had been a legal resident of that district for a year...and register as a member of a party with the local election officials.
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Old 11th April 2018, 01:58 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I asked this in another thread that was probably not the right place for it: What does the Dem side look like in this district?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Bryce

Bryce is well known in the Wisconsin Democratic Party, and is heavily favored to win the Democratic primary.
He would have given RYan a run for his money,and now his prospects look even better.
If the Wisconsin GOP messes up and let's Nehlen win the district..IMHO very unlikely..then it's pretty much game over for the GOP in that distreict.
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Old 11th April 2018, 02:04 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Bryce

Bryce is well known in the Wisconsin Democratic Party, and is heavily favored to win the Democratic primary.
He would have given RYan a run for his money,and now his prospects look even better.
If the Wisconsin GOP messes up and let's Nehlen win the district..IMHO very unlikely..then it's pretty much game over for the GOP in that distreict.
There was mention of Priebus taking swing for the GOP. If Bryce was looking competitive to Ryan, I can't imagine Priebus would have much of a chance. But then I don't know the district.

ETA: I don't see the GOP letting Nehlen take the nom. I'm trying to see how the Dem will measure up who they can put in place on short notice.
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Old 11th April 2018, 02:04 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I asked this in another thread that was probably not the right place for it: What does the Dem side look like in this district?
"It feels like the first day of spring"

Can Democrats Really Win Paul Ryan’s District?

Quote:
Randy Bryce saw the same reports everyone else did on Wednesday morning: House Speaker Paul Ryan will retire at the end of the year. “The first thought I had was, ‘I have to see him say these words for myself,’ ” Bryce told me by phone, after months of rumors that Ryan wouldn’t run for re-election.

Once Ryan made it official? “It feels like the first day of spring,” said Bryce, the mustachioed steelworker who had previously been waging a long-shot campaign to unseat Ryan this fall. “The birds are singing; the sun is shining.”
Quote:
The Cook Political Report on Wednesday reclassified the race from “Likely Republican” to “Lean Republican,” signaling that Ryan’s exit creates a legitimate opening for Democrats despite the district’s GOP tilt
Quote:
It’s a comfortable advantage, but Republicans still need to find a suitable replacement for Ryan on the ballot. Their choice today is between Paul Nehlen, an avowed white nationalist who is too far right for even some white nationalists, and Nick Polce, who began the year with about $4,000 in his campaign bank account. (Remarkably, Nehlen would not be the Republicans’ only anti-Semitic nominee.*) But with the filing deadline not until the start of June, Republicans still have time to go shopping, possibly for someone like Robin Vos, the speaker of the Wisconsin state Assembly.

Last edited by crescent; 11th April 2018 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 11th April 2018, 02:11 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
"It feels like the first day of spring"

Can Democrats Really Win Paul Ryan’s District?
Thanks!
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Old 11th April 2018, 02:18 PM   #73
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Of course it means the Republicans have to invest serious time and money in a race they were probably expecting to be a lock.
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Old 11th April 2018, 02:27 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
Of course it means the Republicans have to invest serious time and money in a race they were probably expecting to be a lock.
I wonder if there's a chance the republicans could just "give up" on trying to win the house (expecting the Democrats have enough momentum to win regardless of what the republicans do), and concentrate all their efforts on the senate.

It would also have the secondary benefit of having the Democrats in at least partial control of Congress if/when the economy starts to go tank thanks to Trump's trade wars and the republican tax plans. "See? This is what happens when you give Democrats any power!"
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Old 11th April 2018, 02:46 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I wonder if there's a chance the republicans could just "give up" on trying to win the house (expecting the Democrats have enough momentum to win regardless of what the republicans do), and concentrate all their efforts on the senate.

It would also have the secondary benefit of having the Democrats in at least partial control of Congress if/when the economy starts to go tank thanks to Trump's trade wars and the republican tax plans. "See? This is what happens when you give Democrats any power!"
No way.You do not concede either house of congress.
And the Party controlling the White House always takes the rap when the economy goes south.
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Old 11th April 2018, 02:58 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
No way.You do not concede either house of congress.
And the Party controlling the White House always takes the rap when the economy goes south.
Five thirty-eight gives them a generic ballot advantage of 6 points based on Gerrymandering. Even in a wave, democrat have to beat the generic ballot of 53-47 to tie. That is huge.
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Old 11th April 2018, 03:03 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
No way.You do not concede either house of congress.
And the Party controlling the White House always takes the rap when the economy goes south.
Not to mention that the Republicans have had enough trouble getting legislation through with control of both houses.
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Old 11th April 2018, 04:22 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
As an open Neo Nazi being the official GOP candidate for a house seat in Illinois shows...The GOP has no way of removing him from the ballot,although they would love to.

In many states, all you have do to be eligible for a party primaty is fulfill the residency requirements..generally you have to had been a legal resident of that district for a year...and register as a member of a party with the local election officials.
As far as I understand from the previous discussions on this topic, indeed, there's nothing the GOP (or the Democratic party) can do to keep someone from running a their (primary) candidate. Those are the election laws, and they've undoubtedly participated in writing them that way, so they've consciously invited that way Neo-Nazis to run as GOP candidates.

I note, for completeness' sake, that in Wisconsin, election law treats major party candidates equal to third party candidates or independents for ballot access: anyone needs 1,000 signatures to get on the ballot as House candidate.
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Old 11th April 2018, 04:27 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
No way.You do not concede either house of congress.
Not to mention that, due to gerrymandering, Republican control over the House is much easier than over the Senate, where they're now virtually tied.

I think Paul Ryan's retirement is great news. If secretly, fear for a bad GOP result in the midterms played into his decision, then it's certainly a self-fulfilling prophecy. As an incumbent, and a very high-profile one at that, he had a huge advantage.

And from what I've seen in the links in this thread, his likely opponent Bryce looks like a great guy.
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Old 11th April 2018, 05:43 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
Not to mention that, due to gerrymandering, Republican control over the House is much easier than over the Senate, where they're now virtually tied.
Eh, I don't think this is right, at least for 2018. The entire House is up for re-election, whereas only 1/3 of the Senate is at a time, and most of the seats Senate in 2018 are current Democrats. The House is meant to be more responsive to swings in public opinion.
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