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Old 13th April 2018, 07:07 PM   #1
cullennz
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US, UK and France launch strike on Syrian chemical sites

Sorry if there is already a thread Couldn't see it.

This could get interesting

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43762251
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Old 13th April 2018, 07:15 PM   #2
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Surely this has absolutely nothing to do with the massive amount of *** that hit the fan this week.

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Old 13th April 2018, 07:27 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
Surely this has absolutely nothing to do with the massive amount of *** that hit the fan this week.

What hit the fan in Britain and France this week?
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Old 13th April 2018, 07:38 PM   #4
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Thank cullennz, I didn't want to start another thread but even in the Trump POTUS thread and the Mueller thread (for inexplicable reasons) there are a post or two but not much enthusiasm.

I have to admit, Trump making his serious, solemn announcement was so ho-hum. I hate seeing that creep having one of his, 'see how important I am' moments.

There's a massive fire in Oklahoma right now, large scale evacuations, most of the fires, 200,000 acres already, are 0% contained and the winds are forecast to continue for more days.

A missile attack on Syria, it's already over BTW, a country that's been at war for 7 years and we've had troops in the area all that time, I'm so not moved to excitement or concern or anguish or anything except burnout for Trump TV.
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Old 13th April 2018, 07:54 PM   #5
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This will probably need to be moved to USA politics eventually.

Trump announces "sustained response", No one interviewed on Capitol Hill has a clue what he meant. Mattis said it was a one-off for the moment. 120 or so cruise missiles being reported.

What do they cost these days? Surely more than a million each not counting charges to launch them. But that money is invisible to GOP legislators.
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Old 13th April 2018, 07:58 PM   #6
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I'm relieved that it wasn't just the US acting alone, lends a bit of respectability to the affair. And makes it plausible that it wasn't just about Trump trying to distract the public from his personal legal problems.
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Old 13th April 2018, 08:14 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Trump announces "sustained response", No one interviewed on Capitol Hill has a clue what he meant.
I read that it means continuing missile strikes until Syria ends its chemical weapons programs.
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Old 13th April 2018, 08:19 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I'm relieved that it wasn't just the US acting alone, lends a bit of respectability to the affair. And makes it plausible that it wasn't just about Trump trying to distract the public from his personal legal problems.
Same here, though I'm not as cynical as you; I don't think Trump would order such an act to distract from something so relatively trivial.

I just hope it doesn't escalate beyond this, though I can only hope.
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Old 13th April 2018, 08:22 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I read that it means continuing missile strikes until Syria ends its chemical weapons programs.
Yes, and Secretary Mattis said precisely this in the briefing.

ETA: Maybe not.

Last edited by Venom; 13th April 2018 at 09:17 PM.
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:09 PM   #10
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The OPCW was on it's way to Syria, due to arrive Saturday...but with these latest developments....now what?
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:14 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
I read that it means continuing missile strikes until Syria ends its chemical weapons programs.
That wasn't the part people didn't understand. What no one got was, what was Trump talking about when everyone else understood the plan to be a one-off strike.
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:17 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Yes, and Secretary Mattis said precisely this in the briefing.
You sure?

Mattis: Cruise Missile Attack on Syria Was One-Off Mission

Maybe Mattis was covering for yet another one of Trump's ignorant Tweets.
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:37 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You sure?

Mattis: Cruise Missile Attack on Syria Was One-Off Mission

Maybe Mattis was covering for yet another one of Trump's ignorant Tweets.
Yeah I must have misheard it during the briefing...or not.

I did see that article about it being a one-off, but I recall hearing something different. Sometimes a journalist may ask a question and in the moment you respond differently than you would when you sit down and gather your thoughts.
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:40 PM   #14
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The Syrians say they had advance warning from the Russians and evacuated their bases. Wonder who could have let that slip out to the Russians.
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:47 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Yeah I must have misheard it during the briefing...or not.

I did see that article about it being a one-off, but I recall hearing something different. Sometimes a journalist may ask a question and in the moment you respond differently than you would when you sit down and gather your thoughts.

Yeah. Especially when those tricky reporters sneak up and waylay you with questions when you are least expecting it.

You know, like at press conferences and stuff.
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Old 13th April 2018, 09:52 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Yeah I must have misheard it during the briefing...or not.

I did see that article about it being a one-off, but I recall hearing something different. Sometimes a journalist may ask a question and in the moment you respond differently than you would when you sit down and gather your thoughts.
Double talk. All of Trump's inner circle are required to know the drill to smooth over the ignorant outbursts of Dear Leader.
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Old 13th April 2018, 10:15 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Zambo View Post
The Syrians say they had advance warning from the Russians and evacuated their bases. Wonder who could have let that slip out to the Russians.
There was the so-called deescalation communications between American forces and the Russians. Of course the Navy didn't specify what they were about to do, but the Russians and Syrians had already taken the hint. I mean if you're implying what I think you're implying I'm afraid to tell you that sounds really cartoonish and unlikely.

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Old 13th April 2018, 10:29 PM   #18
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Didn't we warn Russia before thew previous strike in Syria?
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Old 13th April 2018, 10:29 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This will probably need to be moved to USA politics eventually.

Trump announces "sustained response", No one interviewed on Capitol Hill has a clue what he meant. Mattis said it was a one-off for the moment. 120 or so cruise missiles being reported.

What do they cost these days? Surely more than a million each not counting charges to launch them. But that money is invisible to GOP legislators.
I thought about the US politics category, but it isn't just the US involved
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Old 13th April 2018, 10:47 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
There was the so-called deescalation communications between American forces and the Russians. Of course the Navy didn't specify what they were about to do, but the Russians and Syrians had already taken the hint. I mean if you're implying what I think you're implying I'm afraid to tell you that sounds really cartoonish and unlikely.
The possibility that Russian counterparts were given specific information about possible targets and a time window doesn't seem cartoonish and unlikely at all.
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Old 13th April 2018, 10:56 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
The possibility that Russian counterparts were given specific information about possible targets and a time window doesn't seem cartoonish and unlikely at all.
It would be a bit stupid not to, tbf
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Old 13th April 2018, 11:00 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post
The possibility that Russian counterparts were given specific information about possible targets and a time window doesn't seem cartoonish and unlikely at all.
what "Russian counterparts"? The military gave them the hint that missiles were coming. Beyond that...what?
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Old 13th April 2018, 11:14 PM   #23
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Something of an aside, but I've seen some talk in social media that Alex Jones is "crying hysterically" over the situation and has completely flipped on Trump over the strikes. Can't confirm as I don't watch his show obviously.
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Old 13th April 2018, 11:18 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Something of an aside, but I've seen some talk in social media that Alex Jones is "crying hysterically" over the situation and has completely flipped on Trump over the strikes. Can't confirm as I don't watch his show obviously.
I'm listening now for laughs - it's a lot of his usual conspiracy nonsense of course. Still plenty of babbling about how Clinton's a Russian agent, the dems want WW3, and other such gibberish.
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Old 13th April 2018, 11:19 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
The OPCW was on it's way to Syria, due to arrive Saturday...but with these latest developments....now what?
I was wondering this myself, considering Trump's initial remarks about a "sustained campaign" that obviously would make things difficult. But in reality and despite what Trump himself said, it turns out the "operation" lasted about 30 minutes and according to the DoD is completely over, and there's no plans at this point for any more missiles, so I honestly don't see why the OPCW can't go ahead and do whatever it is they planned to do in Syria. The strikes were not targeted at the gassed areas, so any evidence the OPCW wishes to collect won't have been compromised.
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Old 13th April 2018, 11:24 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I was wondering this myself, considering Trump's initial remarks about a "sustained campaign" that obviously would make things difficult. But in reality and despite what Trump himself said, it turns out the "operation" lasted about 30 minutes and according to the DoD is completely over, and there's no plans at this point for any more missiles, so I honestly don't see why the OPCW can't go ahead and do whatever it is they planned to do in Syria. The strikes were not targeted at the gassed areas, so any evidence the OPCW wishes to collect won't have been compromised.
Russian and Syrian forces were supposed to provide security for the mission. I can see them blocking access after this. I'd be surprised if they didn't, but I hope they don't.
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Old 13th April 2018, 11:28 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
what "Russian counterparts"? The military gave them the hint that missiles were coming. Beyond that...what?
What counterparts? Russian officials in diplomatic and defense positions, of course. And they might have been given specific time and target information...which would definitely qualify as beyond "hints".
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Old 13th April 2018, 11:35 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
It would be a bit stupid not to, tbf
Exactly.
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Old 13th April 2018, 11:41 PM   #29
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I don't quite get why there are only strikes when chemical weapons are used but not when Assad is slaughtering his people with everything else? It kind of sends the message that 'that was the wrong type of killing'.

Is there a deeper reason why there is only a response with chemical weapons? I really have a hard time believing that Trump cares for a second about the suffering of Syrian people. Is this about a fear of an unstable regime having chemical weapons and using this as an opportunity to destroy them so they don't fall into the wrong hands?
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Old 13th April 2018, 11:57 PM   #30
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Then there's the claim that the USA holds the world's largest stockpiles of chemical weapons.........
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Old 14th April 2018, 12:00 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
This will probably need to be moved to USA politics eventually.
Why? This is an international event.

Quote:
Trump announces "sustained response", No one interviewed on Capitol Hill has a clue what he meant. Mattis said it was a one-off for the moment. 120 or so cruise missiles being reported.

What do they cost these days? Surely more than a million each not counting charges to launch them. But that money is invisible to GOP legislators.
Although with complex military equipment there's element of "shelf-life" and natural attrition, even in peacetime.
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Old 14th April 2018, 12:02 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus View Post
I don't quite get why there are only strikes when chemical weapons are used but not when Assad is slaughtering his people with everything else? It kind of sends the message that 'that was the wrong type of killing'.

Is there a deeper reason why there is only a response with chemical weapons? I really have a hard time believing that Trump cares for a second about the suffering of Syrian people. Is this about a fear of an unstable regime having chemical weapons and using this as an opportunity to destroy them so they don't fall into the wrong hands?
The point is the chemical weapons and making a statement by hitting them

The UK and France wouldn't be there if Trump was doing a Rambo
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Old 14th April 2018, 12:04 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Zambo View Post
The Syrians say they had advance warning from the Russians and evacuated their bases. Wonder who could have let that slip out to the Russians.
Russia pulled out its larger naval assets from its Syrian base port a couple of days ago. I doubt they had any specific intelligence, just a fear that there would be a response sooner rather than later.
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Old 14th April 2018, 12:14 AM   #34
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I guess Putin let Trump know where he could blow some stuff up and still look like he is doing something.
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Old 14th April 2018, 12:21 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus View Post
I don't quite get why there are only strikes when chemical weapons are used but not when Assad is slaughtering his people with everything else? It kind of sends the message that 'that was the wrong type of killing'.

Is there a deeper reason why there is only a response with chemical weapons? I really have a hard time believing that Trump cares for a second about the suffering of Syrian people. Is this about a fear of an unstable regime having chemical weapons and using this as an opportunity to destroy them so they don't fall into the wrong hands?
I don't really get it either. And I really don't imagine 'the wrong hands' couldn't get hold of chlorine gas, isn't that something you can accidentally make by mixing the wrong cleaning fluids and why you should never do that? I assume this stuff was more advanced/weaponized in some form, and sounds pretty horrible, but no more so than being maimed or killed by conventional weapons.

While I don't see any evidence of a fabrication of a chemical attack, this certainly seems to me an incentive to maybe start doing such things in an attempt to bring more western assistance...and we'd want to be really really careful that doesn't happen, as it would be a gold mine for the russian propagandists. in fact I could almost see russia faking a faked attack for that purpose...

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
The point is the chemical weapons and making a statement by hitting them

The UK and France wouldn't be there if Trump was doing a Rambo
Dunno about France but you really reckon May didn't jump all over this chance to distract from the shambles going on here...? There's little to no evidence that her or her cabinet have actual human feelings or any degree of intelligence.
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Old 14th April 2018, 12:37 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by DreadNiK View Post
........Dunno about France but you really reckon May didn't jump all over this chance to distract from the shambles going on here...? There's little to no evidence that her or her cabinet have actual human feelings or any degree of intelligence.
Whereas the opposition?........

Idly letting Syria and Russia use chemical weapons without cost may be Corbyn's idea of a plan, but those with half a brain or more know that the only language Assad understands is big bangs. Personally, I'd have flattened every single one of his personal houses, palaces, residences and bunkers, so there was an actual personal price to pay for his butchery.
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Old 14th April 2018, 12:37 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by DreadNiK View Post
Dunno about France but you really reckon May didn't jump all over this chance to distract from the shambles going on here...? There's little to no evidence that her or her cabinet have actual human feelings or any degree of intelligence.
Yes. What with the Skripals and now this, the mess that is Brexit is getting far less attention.
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Old 14th April 2018, 12:39 AM   #38
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So before the strike, all the experts interviewed* said the worst thing to do would be some kind of one-off strike as that was gesture politics at its worst and would achieve nothing other than a flimsy pretense that something had been done.

Then after several days deliberation, we get exactly that and even go to the trouble of confirming we won't do anything else (unless there's another chemical attack).

*OK, all the people I heard interviewed on Radio 4
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Old 14th April 2018, 12:47 AM   #39
cullennz
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Originally Posted by Ethan Thane Athen View Post
So before the strike, all the experts interviewed* said the worst thing to do would be some kind of one-off strike as that was gesture politics at its worst and would achieve nothing other than a flimsy pretense that something had been done.

Then after several days deliberation, we get exactly that and even go to the trouble of confirming we won't do anything else (unless there's another chemical attack).

*OK, all the people I heard interviewed on Radio 4
So these experts wanted a war with Russia or ignore It?

What are they expert in again?
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Old 14th April 2018, 02:21 AM   #40
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Sigh;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43762251

"The US, UK and France have bombed multiple government targets in Syria in an early morning operation targeting alleged chemical weapons sites.

The strikes were in response to a suspected chemical attack on the Syrian town of Douma last week."

So, we never learned from the alleged WMD scandal. We are lead by people who want to fight wars.
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