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Old 18th April 2018, 05:13 AM   #1
smartcooky
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Sandy Hook parents sue Alex Jones for defamation

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43799449

I hope the bastard gets taken to the cleaners
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Old 18th April 2018, 10:55 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43799449

I hope the bastard gets taken to the cleaners
Same here - with a sauce of sandpapering on the sides and back and front until he verbally admits his foulness.
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Old 18th April 2018, 02:58 PM   #3
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Alex Jones is a absolute scumbag. If he believes the conspiracy, he's mentally ill. If its just for ratings he's callously using people who are suffering and causing them more suffering
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Old 18th April 2018, 03:17 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43799449

I hope the bastard gets taken to the cleaners
I would love to see it, but defamation is hard to prove in a US Courtroom,and Jones could probably wriggle out of it legally. Even if a jury awards damages, Jones could probably find some freedom of speech gimmick to cause the verdict to be overturned on appeal.
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Old 18th April 2018, 03:17 PM   #5
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Could this finally be the beginning of the end for him and his lame-o-wars?
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Old 19th April 2018, 10:56 AM   #6
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Sandy Hook parents sue Alex Jones

Parents of Sandy Hook victims, fed up with Alex Jones' lying about them, have filed suit for $1,000,000+.
Quote:
Three parents whose children were killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012 filed a defamation lawsuit on Tuesday against Alex Jones, the right-wing conspiracy theorist who has long claimed the shooting was “completely fake” and a “giant hoax” perpetrated by opponents of the Second Amendment.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/17/b...andy-hook.html

Sounds like they're letting him off cheap. Maybe start at $100 million and negotiate down?
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Old 19th April 2018, 11:18 AM   #7
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Can you sue someone for being a moronic lunatic?
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Old 19th April 2018, 11:38 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Can you sue someone for being a moronic lunatic?
If they defame you, why not?
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Old 19th April 2018, 11:50 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Can you sue someone for being a moronic lunatic?
Please tell me you don't honestly think that's what this.
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Old 19th April 2018, 11:51 AM   #10
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Good.

Seriously, Jones' false conspiracy crap was a large part of his idiot listeners hounding these people, sending them death threats, and other real-world nightmares. I'd be perfectly happy if they put him out of business for good.
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Old 19th April 2018, 12:05 PM   #11
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Good. Hope it works for the parents.
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Old 19th April 2018, 12:09 PM   #12
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I thought 'free speech' was enshrined in the US constitution, so they might find it difficult to win on the grounds of defamation. It sounds more like stalking and harassment.
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Old 19th April 2018, 12:11 PM   #13
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Best of luck to them.
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Old 19th April 2018, 12:13 PM   #14
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Blinky hasn’t anything to worry about. All he has to do is prove the hoax. Should be a slam dunk, right?
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Old 19th April 2018, 12:24 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I thought 'free speech' was enshrined in the US constitution, so they might find it difficult to win on the grounds of defamation. It sounds more like stalking and harassment.
And I thought defamation was still a legal tort and that, if proven in court, the 1st amendment has nothing to do with it (it is).

Like the other rights "enshrined" in the [amended] Constitution, freedom of speech is not absolute.
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Old 19th April 2018, 12:27 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I thought 'free speech' was enshrined in the US constitution, so they might find it difficult to win on the grounds of defamation. It sounds more like stalking and harassment.
You hold a common misperception of the concept of "free speech." The First Amendment means that the government can't prevent you from expressing your beliefs or punish you for it afterward. It doesn't mean you can say anything you want without consequences. It does not prevent prosecution for crimes when speech leads to action, like inciting to riot or obstruction of justice, nor does it prevent civil action when speech injures someone. In this case, the plaintiffs claim they were injured by the defendant's speech, and now they get to take it to a jury.
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Old 19th April 2018, 12:45 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by AJM8125 View Post
Blinky hasnt anything to worry about. All he has to do is prove the hoax. Should be a slam dunk, right?
I thought that they would have to demonstrate that Jones knew his allegations were false in order to claim damages. At the very least, it would have to be demonstrated that Jones had no foundation for these allegations or had no "reasonable" belief.

Either way, it is another field day for the lawyers.
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Old 19th April 2018, 12:59 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I thought that they would have to demonstrate that Jones knew his allegations were false in order to claim damages. At the very least, it would have to be demonstrated that Jones had no foundation for these allegations or had no "reasonable" belief.

Either way, it is another field day for the lawyers.
Given the demonstrable effects (ongoing harassment and threats) of these claims on the parents, the onus will be on him to show that he had a reasonable basis for them, a very difficult prospect. It seems to me that the more difficult part will be proving to the court that it was his claims that led to the harassment. It should be doable since AFAIK his was the loudest voice calling Sandy Hook a hoax, but I don't know if he originated the claim or just jumped into the driver's seat of an existing CT bandwagon.
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Old 19th April 2018, 01:05 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I thought 'free speech' was enshrined in the US constitution, so they might find it difficult to win on the grounds of defamation. It sounds more like stalking and harassment.
You do understand, don't you, that the constraints imposed by the constitution are entirely on the government? In other words, the government won't pass any laws which constrain the citizens freedom of religion and expression (in terms). Free speech doesn't mean you aren't liable for the consequences of what you say, it just means that you're allowed to say it in the first place.
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Old 19th April 2018, 01:06 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I thought that they would have to demonstrate that Jones knew his allegations were false in order to claim damages. At the very least, it would have to be demonstrated that Jones had no foundation for these allegations or had no "reasonable" belief.
...
They are not public figures, like politicians or celebrities, and the standards are not as strict. Their claim is that they were injured by false allegations. His defense would be to prove that the allegations are true, or maybe to assert he thought they were true and had a basis for it. The plaintiffs don't have to prove that he knew they were false, which would usually be the case for a celebrity.
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Old 19th April 2018, 01:47 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I thought that they would have to demonstrate that Jones knew his allegations were false in order to claim damages. At the very least, it would have to be demonstrated that Jones had no foundation for these allegations or had no "reasonable" belief.

Either way, it is another field day for the lawyers.
His statement in hisETA divorce case custody battle that it is an act mightn't help him in that.

ETA:

Link

http://time.com/4743025/alex-jones-i...-donald-trump/

Quote:
But a lawyer for Jones recently said the conspiracy theorist is merely playing a character when he speaks via his InfoWars channels. Hes playing a character, attorney Randall Wilhite said during a recent pretrial hearing. He is a performance artist.

The Austin American-Statesman reports Jones is in the middle of a custody battle, and his ex-wife and mother of his three children, Kelly Jones, has said his fiery rants prove he is not a fit parent. Hes not a stable person, Kelly Jones has said, according to the Statesman. He broadcasts from home. The children are there, watching him broadcast.
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Old 19th April 2018, 01:50 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I thought that they would have to demonstrate that Jones knew his allegations were false in order to claim damages. At the very least, it would have to be demonstrated that Jones had no foundation for these allegations or had no "reasonable" belief.
During his divorce/child custody case, Jones once claimed (through his lawyer) that what he does on InfoWars is a "performance". If that can be entered into evidence, that would certainly weaken Jones' case.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/i...-a7687571.html
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Old 19th April 2018, 02:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
His statement in hisETA divorce case custody battle that it is an act mightn't help him in that.

ETA:

Link

http://time.com/4743025/alex-jones-i...-donald-trump/
There are two edges to that sword, though. If his show is a performance, and also intended to be fictional, then calling anything he says defamation would be like calling an article in The Onion defamation.
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Old 19th April 2018, 02:07 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
There are two edges to that sword, though. If his show is a performance, and also intended to be fictional, then calling anything he says defamation would be like calling an article in The Onion defamation.
But the difference is, The Onion is marketed as satire. Its audience is smart enough to recognize that the material is meant to be comical.

While one of the readers here may be smart enough to know that Jones is full of B.S., many/most of his viewers are not that smart, and will accept his statements as truthful. His "performance" cannot be interpreted as satire either by those who know he's full of B.S. (and just see him as a con artist rather than a satirist) or those who believe him. And there are a lot of those around. (The fact that his articles have lead to actual harassment of victims is proof of that.)
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Old 19th April 2018, 02:31 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
But the difference is, The Onion is marketed as satire. Its audience is smart enough to recognize that the material is meant to be comical.

While one of the readers here may be smart enough to know that Jones is full of B.S., many/most of his viewers are not that smart, and will accept his statements as truthful. His "performance" cannot be interpreted as satire either by those who know he's full of B.S. (and just see him as a con artist rather than a satirist) or those who believe him. And there are a lot of those around. (The fact that his articles have lead to actual harassment of victims is proof of that.)
Oh, I agree. While I believe he's playing a role, his "bits" are intended to be taken seriously by his audience as well as his detractors (as they help to inflame his audience). I'm just saying that his acknowledgment in a public record that he's engaging in "performance" isn't a magic bullet for the plaintiffs.
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Old 19th April 2018, 02:38 PM   #26
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Yes. If we don't let the crazy nutjob criminally slander the parents of dead children and order assault strikes on pizza parlors with imaginary child sex dungeons today then tomorrow we're gonna be denied "Loved Ones Recall Local Man’s Cowardly Battle With Cancer" headlines in an obvious parody newspaper.
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Old 19th April 2018, 02:46 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Yes. If we don't let the crazy nutjob criminally slander the parents of dead children and order assault strikes on pizza parlors with imaginary child sex dungeons today then tomorrow we're gonna be denied "Loved Ones Recall Local Man’s Cowardly Battle With Cancer" headlines in an obvious parody newspaper.
Again, I agree. Courtrooms, however, unfortunately, are their own little worlds. I hope against hope that a jury sees what's up and bankrupts Jones.

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Old 19th April 2018, 03:14 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I thought 'free speech' was enshrined in the US constitution, so they might find it difficult to win on the grounds of defamation. It sounds more like stalking and harassment.
And I thought the constitution applied to the actions of the government.

Oh, another thread that will end up with us presenting evidence that runs into the "I don't buy it" wall.
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Old 19th April 2018, 03:51 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
And I thought the constitution applied to the actions of the government.

Oh, another thread that will end up with us presenting evidence that runs into the "I don't buy it" wall.

Amazing how many people just don't get that freedom of speech does not mean you are free from any consquences of what you say.......
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Old 19th April 2018, 03:53 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Again, I agree. Courtrooms, however, unfortunately, are their own little worlds. I hope against hope that a jury sees what's up and bankrupts Jones.
I would love to see Jones go under, but, even if a Jury finds that Jones is guilty of defamation, Jones will probably hire some lawyer who will find a loophole that will make an appeals court either overturn or greatly reduce the judgement.
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Old 19th April 2018, 03:54 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
But the difference is, The Onion is marketed as satire. Its audience is smart enough to recognize that the material is meant to be comical.

While one of the readers here may be smart enough to know that Jones is full of B.S., many/most of his viewers are not that smart, and will accept his statements as truthful. His "performance" cannot be interpreted as satire either by those who know he's full of B.S. (and just see him as a con artist rather than a satirist) or those who believe him. And there are a lot of those around. (The fact that his articles have lead to actual harassment of victims is proof of that.)
Oh, I am sure that Jones will claim he was just doing satire when he made the comments.
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Old 19th April 2018, 03:59 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
You do understand, don't you, that the constraints imposed by the constitution are entirely on the government? In other words, the government won't pass any laws which constrain the citizens freedom of religion and expression (in terms). Free speech doesn't mean you aren't liable for the consequences of what you say, it just means that you're allowed to say it in the first place.
AMazinf how many people don't get this.
Under the US COnstituion I have a perfect right to walk into my bosses office and call him a dirty son of a bitch to his face. The government can do nothing to stop me. But the Constituion won't keep my butt from being canned ...
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Old 19th April 2018, 04:00 PM   #33
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ANother thread about this in the social issues section.
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Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

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Old 19th April 2018, 04:14 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
AMazinf how many people don't get this.
Oh I think most all of them get it just fine. But "DEFINE EXACTLY WHERE FREE SPEECH BEGINS AND ENDS!" is a nice rabbit hole to drag a discussion down.
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Old 19th April 2018, 04:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Again, I agree. Courtrooms, however, unfortunately, are their own little worlds. I hope against hope that a jury sees what's up and bankrupts Jones.
I hope too but 1 million does not suffice to bankrupt him.
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Old 19th April 2018, 04:24 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
I hope too but 1 million does not suffice to bankrupt him.
A jury that finds him guilty of defamation might (depending on the court) be able to order a great deal more in punitive damages.
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Old 19th April 2018, 04:45 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
A jury that finds him guilty of defamation might (depending on the court) be able to order a great deal more in punitive damages.
OK. Let's hope they'll do.
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"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf

"I think accuracy is important" - Vixen
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Old 19th April 2018, 06:34 PM   #38
KatieG
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It's about damn time!
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What a time to be alive! It's like the collapse of Rome but with WiFi

Basically, if the GOP doesn't want to be called the white supremacy party, they should stop acting like they are.
-Mumbles
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Old 19th April 2018, 09:47 PM   #39
smartcooky
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
ANother thread about this in the social issues section.

I've contacted the mods and asked them to merge the two
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As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
- Henry Louis Mencken - Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920
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Old 19th April 2018, 10:23 PM   #40
BobTheCoward
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I hope he wins.
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