ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 16th September 2017, 06:32 PM   #41
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,312
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Fearing for his life followed by aggressively following Smith, angrily declaring that he'd kill him and then doing so?

You might be stretching a bit to fit the data to your conclusion.
My only conclusion is that there is another heroin dealer of off the streets.
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 06:33 PM   #42
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,076
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
No, goes to stated of mind, and fear for his life.
That would only support the argument that this was premeditated murder from the police man's side. You can't shoot someone in self defense for trying to run you over after that happened and then you chased the person and then you executed him. That's not how self defense works, and it's not how police (or anyone) are supposed to act. In fact, doing so is called murder.
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 06:34 PM   #43
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,076
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
My only conclusion is that there is another heroin dealer of off the streets.
You think cops should just execute heroine dealers?

Doesn't that crime carry a prison sentence?
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 06:34 PM   #44
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,312
Originally Posted by Sherman Bay View Post
The sequence that gets me is after Stockley chased, then rammed Smith's car, Stockley got out of the police car, ran up to Smith and shot him 5 times at point-blank range. The last shot was to his head from 6 inches away.

Claiming it was self-defense would be hard to substantiate. Claiming it was premeditated would be, but the judge wasn't convinced. I don't know how much more premeditated you can get.
Stockley didn't do the ramming, that was the other officer.

Premeditated would be if he decided to kill him before the initial encounter.
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 06:37 PM   #45
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,076
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Stockley didn't do the ramming, that was the other officer.

Premeditated would be if he decided to kill him before the initial encounter.
Debatable, if he made up his mind to kill him before he encountered him the second time. It's 2nd degree murder at least.
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 06:38 PM   #46
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,312
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
That would only support the argument that this was premeditated murder from the police man's side. You can't shoot someone in self defense for trying to run you over after that happened and then you chased the person and then you executed him. That's not how self defense works, and it's not how police (or anyone) are supposed to act. In fact, doing so is called murder.
I don't think it happened the way you describe it.

I think he saw him reaching for a gun and then shot him.
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 06:41 PM   #47
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,076
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
I don't think it happened the way you describe it.

I think he saw him reaching for a gun and then shot him.
Then why even bring up the alleged attempt to run him over?
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 06:43 PM   #48
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,312
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Debatable, if he made up his mind to kill him before he encountered him the second time. It's 2nd degree murder at least.
It was one encounter.

Armed heroin dealers who try to run down cops with their car don't get much sympathy from me.
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 06:44 PM   #49
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,312
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Then why even bring up the alleged attempt to run him over?
Because it was attempted murder.
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 06:46 PM   #50
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 30,040
Wait, what?

https://m.riverfronttimes.com/newsbl...ises-questions
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"You are the herp to my derp" -- bit_pattern
Upchurch is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 06:47 PM   #51
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,076
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
It was one encounter.
As far as I can see, it was two. First encounter with the alleged attempt to run the cop over, then a chase and then a second encounter where the cop riddled the victim with bullets.

Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Armed heroin dealers who try to run down cops with their car don't get much sympathy from me.
Allegedly armed.

That said, I agree. I'm not sympathetic, and I think it's likely that he would have been killed sooner or later in any case. But this isn't about sympathy. It's about the law. A democratic society can't have police going around executing people. There are procedures for firing for effect, and I'm leaning towards them not being followed in this case. It looks an awful lot like an extra-judicial killing to me.
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 06:48 PM   #52
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,076
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Because it was attempted murder.
Allegedly. But the cop didn't shoot him in self defense for that. That makes it irrelevant.
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 07:00 PM   #53
rdwight
Thinker
 
rdwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Allegedly. But the cop didn't shoot him in self defense for that. That makes it irrelevant.
Huh? I mean, yea, it isn't justification. But irrelevant? Hardly.
rdwight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 07:12 PM   #54
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,076
Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
Huh? I mean, yea, it isn't justification. But irrelevant? Hardly.
To whether it was a justified shooting or not. It's relevant as a motive to murder the guy.
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 07:30 PM   #55
rdwight
Thinker
 
rdwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 223
You'd have to agree that all circumstances are relevant, no?

If the deceased had simply run a red light, and it had played out the same, it would obviously be a large difference in how we view it. The way things happened do matter. There is no reason to hand wave them away.

[Edit to add]

I don't know enough about this case to make a judgement at all. But there is no reason to ignore the situation that led to the shooting.

Approached by cops > attempt to run one over > high speed chase

Whether he was fishing around for something is not known of course, but to a reasonable person, any additional non-compliance that further endangers the officer and escalates the situation, matters. As well as what led to it.

Last edited by rdwight; 16th September 2017 at 07:34 PM.
rdwight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 07:35 PM   #56
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,076
Originally Posted by rdwight View Post
You'd have to agree that all circumstances are relevant, no?

If the deceased had simply run a red light, and it had played out the same, it would obviously be a large difference in how we view it. The way things happened do matter. There is no reason to hand wave them away.
It wouldn't make a difference to what the law says. A cop can't execute someone some time after someone tried to run him over any more than he can shoot someone who ran a red light.

I agree that it has an effect on how we view the situation, but that's why it's important to point out that it's irrelevant.
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 08:14 PM   #57
rdwight
Thinker
 
rdwight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
It wouldn't make a difference to what the law says. A cop can't execute someone some time after someone tried to run him over any more than he can shoot someone who ran a red light.

I agree that it has an effect on how we view the situation, but that's why it's important to point out that it's irrelevant.
No one is claiming you can execute someone because 'X'. Why you revert to that angle is beyond me.

Again, how it it irrelevant? The circumstances are exactly what a jury or judge would take into account when making a ruling. Acting as if this is not the case is simply incorrect.
rdwight is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th September 2017, 10:09 PM   #58
332nd
Penultimate Amazing
 
332nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,136
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
If only that window had listened to the cop's instructions this could've been avoided...
__________________
The poster formerly known as Redtail
332nd is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 04:58 AM   #59
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 30,040
I finally worked through the verdict. I'm not impressed.

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.town...450230.pdf.pdf

ETA: The judge's argument against premeditation is that there was no evidence that Stockley even knew Smith before the encounter in the Church's Chicken parking lot, as if that were a requirement.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"You are the herp to my derp" -- bit_pattern

Last edited by Upchurch; 17th September 2017 at 05:30 AM.
Upchurch is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 05:44 AM   #60
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,312
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I finally worked through the verdict. I'm not impressed.

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.town...450230.pdf.pdf

ETA: The judge's argument against premeditation is that there was no evidence that Stockley even knew Smith before the encounter in the Church's Chicken parking lot, as if that were a requirement.
Thanks for posting that.

The legal definition of premeditation in Missouri is in there.
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 06:14 AM   #61
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 30,040
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Thanks for posting that.

The legal definition of premeditation in Missouri is in there.
You'll note it says nothing about the parties knowing one another.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"You are the herp to my derp" -- bit_pattern
Upchurch is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 06:26 AM   #62
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,016
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I finally worked through the verdict. I'm not impressed.

https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.town...450230.pdf.pdf

ETA: The judge's argument against premeditation is that there was no evidence that Stockley even knew Smith before the encounter in the Church's Chicken parking lot, as if that were a requirement.
The part that stuck out to me was that his partner didn't testify.

Quote:
Bianchi's statements also cannot be used at Stockley's trial unless he testifies and can be cross-examined, Wilson ruled. His lawyer has said Bianchi intends to invoke his Fifth Amendment privilege against self-incrimination and refuse to testify.
*
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 06:33 AM   #63
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 44,105
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Easily explained. Cops, like many of the smaller birds, challenge their own reflections. This can be prevented in the future by attaching stained glass ornaments to the window to provide visual cues that there's a sheet of glass present.
__________________
One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 06:41 AM   #64
Bikewer
Penultimate Amazing
 
Bikewer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: St. Louis, Mo.
Posts: 12,073
So, as to last night:
As I said, we're working 12-hour shifts. At 6 pm, the day watch is called in to the station to "exchange equipment". We figure we're going home.
As soon as we get in, all hell is breaking loose. The demonstrators who have been downtown have decided to march to the U.City Loop, and we have reports of individuals trying to get into University-owned properties.
So, everyone piles in cars and off we go.... No specific directions, nobody knows much what's going on, and no one has the right radio frequency....

We have 5 officers in a car. We spend a couple of hours zipping from one area to another as the protest march is being tracked. We keep getting updates from STLPD command about various scary situations; reports of people armed with AK-47s, throwing rocks, etc.
The protest marchers (BIG crowd) come west down Delmar, stop at the U.City line, and go South. They block a couple of intersections and chant and have "die ins"... All peaceful.

Then, they go back east down Forest Park. We figure we're done... They're headed back into the city. Not so. They circle around and head for the "Loop" Again.
So, we post blocking a street and the whole shebang goes marching down Delmar. Again, no problems. Lots of "black lives matter" signs and anti-police signs and all that but no violence. Everybody has a camera, it seems... Everybody recording each other.

Finally, about 9pm they're all through the Loop and things look good. We've already been working since 6am... They call us back to the station and we're cut loose.

About 2 hours later it all goes south. Evidently the "agitators" rather than the protesters have come back to the Loop and began breaking windows and such. About 12 businesses suffer damage, a couple of cars damaged, 12 arrests, several officers with minor injuries.
Note that although the U.City "loop" area is a popular entertainment venue, it is NOT in the city of St. Louis and has no connection whatever with the STLPD or the case in question.

Interview footage with some of these heroes varies considerably. Some say they "just want to send a message". Others talk of "shutting down the city" and hurting "them" financially.

What connection there might be between hurting a bunch of small businessmen and reforming the police/justice system seems tenuous at best.

As to the case itself, the judge said that he examined the video footage virtually frame by frame and could see no indication that Shockley had the putative suspect weapon at any time. His rummaging in the duffel bag was supposedly to obtain "quick clot" to apply to the victim's wounds.... No gun visible.
As to Shockley's rather damning words during the pursuit.... I can say from experience that during the heat of a pursuit, one is likely to say most anything, much of it rather "blue"....

Last edited by Bikewer; 17th September 2017 at 06:44 AM.
Bikewer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 07:12 AM   #65
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,312
Thanks for pulling the extra duty, 12 hour shifts in gear must not be fun.
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th September 2017, 10:05 AM   #66
Mike!
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
 
Mike!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 26,898
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
Thanks for pulling the extra duty, 12 hour shifts in gear must not be fun.
My math says 15. Thanks, Bikewer.
__________________
"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes...
Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."

Last edited by Mike!; 17th September 2017 at 10:28 AM.
Mike! is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 05:30 AM   #67
Mike!
Official Ponylandistanian National Treasure. Respect it!
 
Mike!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ponylandistan! Where the bacon grows on trees! Can it get any better than that? I submit it can not!
Posts: 26,898
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Surveillance video from Culpeppers shows this was done by a protestor, not the police.

http://fox2now.com/2017/09/17/st-lou...illance-video/
__________________
"Never judge a man until you’ve walked a mile in his shoes...
Because then it won't really matter, you’ll be a mile away and have his shoes."
Mike! is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 05:38 AM   #68
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 40,354
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
The running over part happened before the high speed chase which happened before the reaching for the gun.

allegedly
To it was as summary execution not defense.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 05:40 AM   #69
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 40,354
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Fearing for his life followed by aggressively following Smith, angrily declaring that he'd kill him and then doing so?

You might be stretching a bit to fit the data to your conclusion.
Once you get one shot in self defense you can do anything you need to do to finish the job. Time and subsequent actions never matter.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 05:58 AM   #70
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 40,354
So when will the officer be getting his job back? Any guesses?
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 05:59 AM   #71
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 68,701
Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
My only conclusion is that there is another heroin dealer of off the streets.
You can be glad about that without agreeing with the cop's actions.
__________________
渦巻く暗雲天を殺し 現る凶事のうなりか

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 06:47 AM   #72
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 30,040
Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
Surveillance video from Culpeppers shows this was done by a protestor, not the police.

http://fox2now.com/2017/09/17/st-lou...illance-video/
Yeah, I saw that a bit ago and just haven't had the chance to post the update. Thanks.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"You are the herp to my derp" -- bit_pattern
Upchurch is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 06:48 AM   #73
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
 
Upchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 30,040
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So when will the officer be getting his job back? Any guesses?
I believe he currently lives in Texas. Houston, maybe?

This event was something like 6 years ago.
__________________
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact." -- Sherlock Holmes.
"You are the herp to my derp" -- bit_pattern
Upchurch is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 06:52 AM   #74
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 40,354
Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
I believe he currently lives in Texas. Houston, maybe?

This event was something like 6 years ago.
So a settlement over his firing is more likely? And that is a lot of back wages.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 09:46 AM   #75
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,312
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
You can be glad about that without agreeing with the cop's actions.
I can also accept the cop's actions in this case.

Because he tried to open the perp's door three times.

He warned the perp to stop what he was doing.

The perp did not comply with the police even after the police crashed his car to stop a high speed chase.

And he did shoot to the center of mass, even when a head shot would have been an easier target.

This guy should not be the poster boy for Black Lives Matter.
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 09:48 AM   #76
bobdroege7
Master Poster
 
bobdroege7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,312
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Once you get one shot in self defense you can do anything you need to do to finish the job. Time and subsequent actions never matter.
I don't quite agree with this.

Once you sleep on it, you need to re-establish self defense.
__________________
Un-american Jack-booted thug

Graduate of a liberal arts college!

Faster play faster faster play faster
bobdroege7 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 18th September 2017, 10:08 AM   #77
This is The End
 
This is The End's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,683
Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
Everybody has a camera, it seems...

Yeah. Those are called phones.
__________________
________________________
This is The End is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:48 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.