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Old 21st September 2017, 03:30 AM   #1641
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
After you remove all the hoaxes and false flags, how much of an upswing is left? You're long on anecdotes* but still short on data.
Well we are writing off all antisemitic graffiti as the work of jews to start with, so that makes it rather hard to say. Clearly no one would ever feel comfortable expressing antisemitic views in public so we can safely assume all instances of this are really jews doing it for the attention. This makes statistics more troublesome as that is the most common increase noted in the statistics.

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* Not really; you just keep milking the same few anecdotes over and over again.
That is your basic position by using a few anecdotes to dismiss all of them.
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Old 21st September 2017, 03:31 AM   #1642
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Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
If you say so
Criticising the president will get the white house to call for your firing.
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Old 21st September 2017, 05:48 AM   #1643
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Well we are writing off all antisemitic graffiti as the work of jews to start with, so that makes it rather hard to say. Clearly no one would ever feel comfortable expressing antisemitic views in public so we can safely assume all instances of this are really jews doing it for the attention. This makes statistics more troublesome as that is the most common increase noted in the statistics.



That is your basic position by using a few anecdotes to dismiss all of them.
Who exactly is saying all antisemitic graffiti is done by Jews?
What has been documented is some of it was. Deal with it.
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Old 21st September 2017, 05:58 AM   #1644
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Who exactly is saying all antisemitic graffiti is done by Jews?
What has been documented is some of it was. Deal with it.
And it is all being dismissed. So any statistics about it are irrelevant.
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Old 24th October 2017, 09:55 AM   #1645
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A suspect has been arrested in the case of the racist graffiti at Eastern Michigan University last year.

However, the messages appeared before the election, so this isn't really part of the "massive wave." Also, the police are saying that the graffiti was "self-serving", and not racially motivated.
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Old 24th October 2017, 09:59 AM   #1646
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And it is all being dismissed. So any statistics about it are irrelevant.
Relevant statistics have good data collection methodologies. The data collected in the OP had some problems. Since then this thread has been pretty much entirely anecdotes, speculation, and frustrated sarcasm.

If you have statistics showing a "massive wave of hate crimes against minorities" in the week following the election, by all means, share them!
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Old 8th November 2017, 02:25 PM   #1647
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Another hate crime due to President Trump's election solved.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/08/us/air...rnd/index.html
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Old 8th November 2017, 06:47 PM   #1648
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Another hate crime due to President Trump's election solved.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/08/us/air...rnd/index.html

It seems people like Douglas Murray were right with their "Supply and Demand" observation.

From just the last month:
one
two
three
four
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Old 9th November 2017, 09:59 AM   #1649
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With all the real hate crime going on, why do people feel the need to perpetrate so many "hoaxes"?

And speaking of "hoaxes", Ace of Spades has an interesting argument about how these kinds of incidents aren't hoaxes at all. They're literally hate crimes themselves:
Why does someone write a real bit of hate-graffiti? For these reasons:

1. To threaten/worry a racial minority.

2. To stir up racial divisions.

3. To encourage others to express their own racial hatreds (for minorities).

Now, why does a member of a minority group write hate-graffiti?

1. To threaten/worry a racial minority.

2. To stir up racial divisions.

3. To encourage others to express their own racial hatreds (for the group presumed responsible for the graffiti, usually straight white Christian men).

Now, notice that in both cases, the motivations and the intent and the act and even the very words used are precisely the same.

http://ace.mu.nu/archives/372429.php
(Emphasis in the original.)
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Old 9th November 2017, 10:36 AM   #1650
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You forgot to create a diversion from a crime.
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Old 10th November 2017, 01:31 AM   #1651
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Another hate crime due to President Trump's election solved.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/08/us/air...rnd/index.html
So...5 students, 1 perpetrator.

Hold it, this leaves 4 victims. Whether or not that's a "hate crime" depends on the state, but that's still 4 other students that found racist graffitti on their doors and had no clue who did it.

ETA: still not evidence of a statistical increase, clearly.

Last edited by Mumbles; 10th November 2017 at 01:34 AM.
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Old 13th November 2017, 10:08 AM   #1652
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
So...5 students, 1 perpetrator.

Hold it, this leaves 4 victims. Whether or not that's a "hate crime" depends on the state, but that's still 4 other students that found racist graffitti on their doors and had no clue who did it.

ETA: still not evidence of a statistical increase, clearly.
Clearly this is worth several nazi's shooting and beating people in the streets though so we have to discount those acts too.
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Old 27th November 2017, 12:12 PM   #1653
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bump
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Old 27th November 2017, 10:13 PM   #1654
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Just wanna say I think the phrase "criminal mischief" sounds pretty cool.
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Old 9th December 2017, 03:13 PM   #1655
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Old 9th December 2017, 07:56 PM   #1656
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
So...5 students, 1 perpetrator.

Hold it, this leaves 4 victims. Whether or not that's a "hate crime" depends on the state, but that's still 4 other students that found racist graffitti on their doors and had no clue who did it.

ETA: still not evidence of a statistical increase, clearly.
It was a fake hate crime, no intent. If there was intent, it was as a backward hate crime. It's a point against rather than for. Or something.

If someone puts a burning cross on a lawn that's probably a hate crime. If some lumber and nails fall off a passing truck, and they bounce around on the road and somehow hammer themselves into a cross that lodges itself into a lawn, then the apparatus spontaneously bursts into flames - not a hate crime.

I'm not even sure what you mean. This thread should be left for dead anyways so just having fun
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Old 9th December 2017, 09:28 PM   #1657
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I'm not even sure what you mean. This thread should be left for dead anyways so just having fun
And yet, you decided to bring it back...

May I ask "Why?"

Last edited by Mumbles; 9th December 2017 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 11th December 2017, 03:52 AM   #1658
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
And yet, you decided to bring it back...

May I ask "Why?"
Because when faced with a world where the President of the US is not only a White supremacist, but a White supremacist from "your side", it feels good to have at least a semantic defence against people calling you out for supporting White supremacy.
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Old 11th December 2017, 05:06 AM   #1659
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Yeah, President Trump is a white supremacist. Say it enough and you can convince yourself. All these fake the crimes just show how sick the country has become. These incidences were eaten up by the media as it was what they truly wanted and believed.
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Old 11th December 2017, 06:04 AM   #1660
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
Yeah, President Trump is a white supremacist. Say it enough and you can convince yourself.
Ok lets stick to hard facts, "President Trump is a Nazi apologist, and is more bothered by someone punching his nazi supporters like Richard Spencer than his supporters driving cars into crowds"
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Old 11th December 2017, 06:53 AM   #1661
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President Trump obviously misspoke when he made the "there were good people there" statement. Big deal. How many supporters drove cars into crowds? I counted one POS doing that, but I may not be up to date.
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Old 11th December 2017, 07:00 AM   #1662
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
President Trump obviously misspoke when he made the "there were good people there" statement
If it was a mistake why did he keep making it? Why does he still do that?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/14/u...tim-scott.html

If it was a mistake clearly he must have admitted that at some point right?

When can we take Trump at his word?
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Old 11th December 2017, 07:40 AM   #1663
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Trump misspoke.

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Old 11th December 2017, 10:39 PM   #1664
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
And the non fake-stuff?

This has been adjudicated a non-fake hate crime inspired by Donald Trump
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Old 12th December 2017, 12:17 AM   #1665
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
When can we take Trump at his word?

Covfefe?
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Old 12th December 2017, 04:29 AM   #1666
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I understood what President Trump meant. Not that the neo-Nazis and white supremacists were good people, but there were people there that are good people. People who just didn't like to see a statue to a great American come down. But keep up the narrative, the left loves it's demonizations.
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Old 12th December 2017, 05:35 AM   #1667
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
I understood what President Trump meant. Not that the neo-Nazis and white supremacists were good people, but there were people there that are good people. People who just didn't like to see a statue to a great American come down. But keep up the narrative, the left loves it's demonizations.
Confederate statues are a tribute to slavery, those are not good people.
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Old 12th December 2017, 06:09 AM   #1668
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
I understood what President Trump meant. Not that the neo-Nazis and white supremacists were good people, but there were people there that are good people. People who just didn't like to see a statue to a great American come down. But keep up the narrative, the left loves it's demonizations.
Yes they were all on one side. When the march is all by white supremacists groups, how many people there do you want to call good people?

This was not a march put on by white supremacists. So we are the level of Not all White Supremacists? Really?
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Old 12th December 2017, 06:11 AM   #1669
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
I understood what President Trump meant. Not that the neo-Nazis and white supremacists were good people, but there were people there that are good people. People who just didn't like to see a statue to a great American come down. But keep up the narrative, the left loves it's demonizations.
The people that were there were anti-fascists, Nazis and people willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with Nazis against anti-fascists. Who of those are the good people Trump was talking about?
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Old 12th December 2017, 06:11 AM   #1670
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Confederate statues are a tribute to slavery, those are not good people.
Just because you go to white nationalist events honoring people willing to kill for slavery does not make you a bad person to republicans. It is like how raping kids is not that big a deal to the catholic church. You have to measure their morality by relative standards.
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Old 12th December 2017, 06:13 AM   #1671
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
The people that were there were anti-fascists, Nazis and people willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with Nazis against anti-fascists. Who of those are the good people Trump was talking about?
The ones who are wearing trump hats of course even if they are there for ethnic cleansing and the creation of a white state.
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Old 12th December 2017, 06:15 AM   #1672
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
a statue to a great American

You mean this guy?

Quote:
In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is useless to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence. Wikipedia
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Old 12th December 2017, 06:20 AM   #1673
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
You mean this guy?
And he was all about the white ethnostate, just like the good people on one of the sides. Lots of good people want to be totally separate from all the other races.
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Old 12th December 2017, 06:23 AM   #1674
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
You mean this guy?
Wait, I missed that. Did Wolrab call General Lee a "great American"? Really? The guy who committed treason and fought a war against America?

ETA: He did, didn't he... Geez...
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Old 12th December 2017, 06:27 AM   #1675
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Lots of good people want to be totally separate from all the other races.

No, Lee wouldn't want to be separate from them. He was more of a White Man's Burden kind of guy - 45 years before Kipling.
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Old 12th December 2017, 06:31 AM   #1676
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
No, Lee wouldn't want to be separate from them. He was more of a White Man's Burden kind of guy - 45 years before Kipling.
I was referring to the organizers of the march. Lots of good people apparently like hanging out with nazis. See the president as an example of this.
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Old 12th December 2017, 06:41 AM   #1677
dann
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,686
I just read Ta Nehisi-Coates's essay The First White President. Excellent!

Quote:
Nevertheless, the argument that America’s original sin was not deep-seated white supremacy but rather the exploitation of white labor by white capitalists—“white slavery”—proved durable. Indeed, the panic of white slavery lives on in our politics today. Black workers suffer because it was and is our lot. But when white workers suffer, something in nature has gone awry. And so an opioid epidemic among mostly white people is greeted with calls for compassion and treatment, as all epidemics should be, while a crack epidemic among mostly black people is greeted with scorn and mandatory minimums.
(…)
Observing a Trump supporter in the act of deploying racism does not much perturb Kristof. That is because his defenses of the innate goodness of Trump voters and of the innate goodness of the white working class are in fact defenses of neither. On the contrary, the white working class functions rhetorically not as a real community of people so much as a tool to quiet the demands of those who want a more inclusive America.

Not that the "calls for compassion and treatment" are anything but words!
The white working class has to stop being racist.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 12th December 2017, 08:32 AM   #1678
kookbreaker
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Originally Posted by Wolrab View Post
President Trump obviously misspoke when he made the "there were good people there" statement.
Gosh, those dog whistles sure seem to end up in his mouth a lot.

Quote:
Big deal. How many supporters drove cars into crowds? I counted one POS doing that, but I may not be up to date.
Well, it was a dissapointing turnout of people driving through crowds after the altrighties did all they could to encouarge it.
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