ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags donald trump , racism issues , racists , Trump controversies , Trump supporters

Reply
Old 21st September 2017, 04:22 AM   #41
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,306
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Trump doesn't strike me as the kind of compelling public speaker whose rhetoric could toggle someone from "hasn't thought about embracing white supremacy" to "has embraced white supremacy".
That's not what "embolden" means. It means toggling someone from "is a racist or white supremacist but kept it to himself" to "hey, the President's on my side!"
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st September 2017, 04:28 AM   #42
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
That's not what "embolden" means. It means toggling someone from "is a racist or white supremacist but kept it to himself" to "hey, the President's on my side!"
Though I do think that being emboldened helps many of the recruit new people.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st September 2017, 04:32 AM   #43
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,306
No doubt.
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st September 2017, 04:49 AM   #44
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 17,218
This dog still wont hunt
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st September 2017, 10:34 AM   #45
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22,715
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Is it possible that you don't understand what "embolden" means? Hint: It does not mean "convert". Knowing that you are rather intelligent, I'm gonna call "Misdirection!" yet again.
Is it possible you don't know what "embrace" means? Hint: Read the post I was replying to. ponderingturtle explicitly talks about embracing white supremacy. If you think he meant "embolden", take it up with him.

Who's misdirecting who, here?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st September 2017, 10:35 AM   #46
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22,715
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And who would have though gamergate lead to lots of people embracing nazi ideology, but it does seem to work out that way.
You say so, but you can't provide any examples or data.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st September 2017, 10:37 AM   #47
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22,715
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
That's not what "embolden" means. It means toggling someone from "is a racist or white supremacist but kept it to himself" to "hey, the President's on my side!"
It is what "embrace" means, though. Try reading the post I was responding to.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st September 2017, 10:44 AM   #48
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,306
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
It is what "embrace" means, though. Try reading the post I was responding to.
I did. You responded to Turtle's post about the topic, which is about how Trump emboldens racists. At no point did you or him indicate that you were talking about anything else.

You wouldn't be trying to avoid admitting to making a mistake, would you?
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st September 2017, 02:09 PM   #49
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 15,385
Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Yes, they do.

As stated above, they say they do and they act like they do. There's no reason to think they don't.

The question Trump apologists need to ask themselves is 'why'. The rest of us already know.
I have said it before, if David Duke praises your stance on race, and the Bushes condemn them, then that's a sign that you are in the wrong.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st September 2017, 06:01 PM   #50
Noztradamus
Illuminator
 
Noztradamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4,543
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Except he used "empowered". I think "emboldened" is closer to the mark.
"embiggened" is the word.
__________________
The Australian Family Association's John Morrissey was aghast when he learned Jessica Watson was bidding to become the youngest person to sail round the world alone, unaided and without stopping.
Noztradamus is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th September 2017, 04:52 AM   #51
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I have said it before, if David Duke praises your stance on race, and the Bushes condemn them, then that's a sign that you are in the wrong.
But you are more truly republican.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th September 2017, 07:01 AM   #52
phiwum
Philosopher
 
phiwum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,487
delete

Last edited by phiwum; 25th September 2017 at 07:03 AM.
phiwum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th September 2017, 09:23 AM   #53
ahhell
Muse
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
But you are more truly republican.
This reminds me of the sort of atheists that thinks fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims are more truly Christian/Muslim than their more liberal co-religionists. Even if true, all it does is much the liberal factions more towards the fundies.
ahhell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th September 2017, 09:27 AM   #54
The Don
Penultimate Amazing
 
The Don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cymru
Posts: 22,630
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
This reminds me of the sort of atheists that thinks fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims are more truly Christian/Muslim than their more liberal co-religionists. Even if true, all it does is much the liberal factions more towards the fundies.
Where do you find this sort of atheist ?
The Don is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th September 2017, 09:46 AM   #55
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
This reminds me of the sort of atheists that thinks fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims are more truly Christian/Muslim than their more liberal co-religionists. Even if true, all it does is much the liberal factions more towards the fundies.
Trump tapped into the energy of the base far more effectively than the Bushes, McCain, Romney or Dole ever did. He won by realizing that they didn't need to bring up some RINO moderate for president.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th September 2017, 11:40 AM   #56
Roger Ramjets
Illuminator
 
Roger Ramjets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,319
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Trump's election has certainly empowered the bigots on the left.
Originally Posted by applecorped
This
Originally Posted by casebro
and without even seeing the hypocrisy involved.
As the above quotes show, Trump certainly has emboldened some to cast off the veil. Whereas before they may have at least pretended to be impartial, now it's just full-on partisan false equivalency.
__________________
We don't want good, sound arguments. We want arguments that sound good.
Roger Ramjets is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th September 2017, 12:07 PM   #57
ahhell
Muse
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 537
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Trump tapped into the energy of the base far more effectively than the Bushes, McCain, Romney or Dole ever did. He won by realizing that they didn't need to bring up some RINO moderate for president.
Its hard to argue with results I suppose. The polling as of a month or two ago suggested that about 20% of republicans were on the side of the Romney's, Doles, etc and still opposed Trump's ascendancy. It suggests you may be right.

That being said, the majority of republicans are not Klansmen nor do the support the Klan. They are however a bit to wiling to associate with the Klan with out second guessing them selves for my tastes.

Last edited by ahhell; 25th September 2017 at 12:10 PM.
ahhell is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th September 2017, 12:16 PM   #58
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 39,517
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Its hard to argue with results I suppose. The polling as of a month or two ago suggested that about 20% of republicans were on the side of the Romney's, Doles, etc and still opposed Trump's ascendancy. It suggests you may be right.

That being said, the majority of republicans are not Klansmen nor do the support the Klan. They are however a bit to wiling to associate with the Klan with out second guessing them selves for my tastes.
They prefer their white supremacy to be couched in more polite terms. That was well known with the organized disenfranchisement of blacks for example.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th September 2017, 12:35 PM   #59
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 78,333
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Where do you find this sort of atheist ?
Perhaps in this fine building?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg straw.jpg (62.4 KB, 97 views)
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 03:23 AM   #60
Foolmewunz
Grammar Resistance Leader
TLA Dictator
 
Foolmewunz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Pattaya, Thailand
Posts: 36,637
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/14/us...ent/index.html

I suppose this lady was just making this story up. Because the bigots, according to those on the right who should know, have not been emboldened by Trump. No. Not at all.
__________________
Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele

Help! We're being attacked by sea lions!
Foolmewunz is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 06:29 AM   #61
Stacko
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,541
The only thing this guy regrets is getting caught and it looks like he's being let off the hook.
Stacko is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 07:20 AM   #62
ddt
Mafia Penguin
 
ddt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 17,426
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
This reminds me of the sort of atheists that thinks fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims are more truly Christian/Muslim than their more liberal co-religionists. Even if true, all it does is much the liberal factions more towards the fundies.
Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Where do you find this sort of atheist ?
Ayaan Hirsi Ali comes to mind. Geert Wilders too.
__________________
Founder of the group "The Truth about Anjezë Gonxhe Bojaxhiu aka Mother Teresa"

"I think it is very beautiful for the poor to accept their lot, to share it with the passion of Christ. I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people." - "Saint" Teresa, the lying thieving Albanian dwarf
ddt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 08:54 AM   #63
WilliamSeger
Master Poster
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,225
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Trump's election has certainly empowered the bigots on the left.
You got us. We hate racists, nazis and bigots.
Yeah, and it at least felt like we were more "empowered" before last November, didn't it.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 08:59 AM   #64
TheL8Elvis
Philosopher
 
TheL8Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,544
Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
That's some awesome reporting...

But in one Washington County town, some say one fan’s response may have crossed the line.

Paul Smith, the chief of Cecil Volunteer Fire Station #2, posted a derogatory response on Facebook, which directed a racial slur at Steelers’ head coach Mike Tomlin.

In the post, Smith wrote: “Tomlin just added himself to the list of no good N*****s. Yes I said it.”



Really WTF MAY have crossed the line ?
__________________
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States...nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov
TheL8Elvis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 09:16 AM   #65
Imhotep
Muse
 
Imhotep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 519
I don't know, I think the first step to progressing as a nation is to have everyone come out and just be honest about their attitudes and political beliefs. That sets the stage for great thinkers to come along and try to resolve the disparate and seemingly incompatible tenets of each side.
Imhotep is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 09:18 AM   #66
Imhotep
Muse
 
Imhotep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 519
Also, it's interesting to find parallels between Trump and Caligula. Will Trump be followed up by a Claudius type figure?
Imhotep is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 09:18 AM   #67
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,306
Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
Also, it's interesting to find parallels between Trump and Caligula.
I wonder if he'll name his hair senator.
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 09:22 AM   #68
applecorped
Rotten to the Core
 
applecorped's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 17,218
Originally Posted by Roger Ramjets View Post
As the above quotes show, Trump certainly has emboldened some to cast off the veil. Whereas before they may have at least pretended to be impartial, now it's just full-on partisan false equivalency.
__________________
All You Need Is Love.
applecorped is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 09:25 AM   #69
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22,715
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I did. You responded to Turtle's post about the topic, which is about how Trump emboldens racists.
I responded specifically to the point Turtle raised about people embracing white supremacy.

Quote:
At no point did you or him indicate that you were talking about anything else.
I indicated what I was talking about first by quoting it, and second by using the same terminology used in the quote in my reply to the quoted passage. What else would you have had me do to indicate what I was talking about?

Quote:
You wouldn't be trying to avoid admitting to making a mistake, would you?
I'm not sure what mistake I could possibly have made. Here's what Turtle said:
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Sure the issue is how Trump has effected the beliefs and actions of the white supremacists. And has his rhetoric shifted people to embrace white supremacy who hadn't thought about it in the past.
Turtle talked about people embracing white supremacy due to Trump's rhetoric. I asked specifically about that. The only way I could be mistaken is if Turtle hadn't actually brought it up. But he did, so I'm not.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 09:28 AM   #70
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,306
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I responded specifically to the point Turtle raised about people embracing white supremacy.
Every time I read "Turtle" now I see Mitch McConnell's face. I'd like to apologise to ponderingturtle for associating them!

Quote:
I indicated what I was talking about first by quoting it, and second by using the same terminology used in the quote in my reply to the quoted passage. What else would you have had me do to indicate what I was talking about?
You weren't talking about emboldening them, then? What do you mean? If you were, I was responding to that. If you weren't, then what?
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 09:32 AM   #71
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22,715
Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/07/14/us...ent/index.html

I suppose this lady was just making this story up. Because the bigots, according to those on the right who should know, have not been emboldened by Trump. No. Not at all.
It's hard to take your concern seriously when all you bring is sarcasm. It gives the impression you don't even take it seriously yourself.

Anyway, your argument is both a non sequitur and contrafactual. And "those on the right" is a pretty weaselly phrasing. You were having a conversation with other members here. You don't need to appeal to an anonymous other group, "those on the right". You can actually address the claims and arguments made by the members involved in the conversation. Assuming any of them have actually said what you're claiming. So c'mon: Put aside the sarcasm and the elisions, and have at it.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 09:38 AM   #72
WilliamSeger
Master Poster
 
WilliamSeger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,225
Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
I don't know, I think the first step to progressing as a nation is to have everyone come out and just be honest about their attitudes and political beliefs. That sets the stage for great thinkers to come along and try to resolve the disparate and seemingly incompatible tenets of each side. Obviously the racism won't survive that process but it still needs to be represented on the way in.
I thought we went through that process in the 60s, but the backlash seems to have set the stage for a demagogue. Maybe it takes a few cycles.
WilliamSeger is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 09:54 AM   #73
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22,715
Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
I don't know, I think the first step to progressing as a nation is to have everyone come out and just be honest about their attitudes and political beliefs. That sets the stage for great thinkers to come along and try to resolve the disparate and seemingly incompatible tenets of each side. Obviously the racism won't survive that process but it still needs to be represented on the way in.
That's kind of how I feel, too.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 10:10 AM   #74
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22,715
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
You weren't talking about emboldening them, then? What do you mean? If you were, I was responding to that. If you weren't, then what?
In this post, ponderingturtle says that Trump's rhetoric has shifted people to embrace white supremacy. I quoted the post. I even used the forum's built-in quote feature that provides a link back to the original so that no context is lost. I responded to the things said in that post, explicitly using the same terminology in my reply as used in the post I was replying to. Go back and re-read my posts, and let me know what I could possibly have done to make it any clearer what I was talking about.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 10:11 AM   #75
Imhotep
Muse
 
Imhotep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 519
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
That's kind of how I feel, too.
Thanks. There was an article in Smithsonian that followed along these lines.
Imhotep is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 10:13 AM   #76
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,306
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
In this post, ponderingturtle says that Trump's rhetoric has shifted people to embrace white supremacy. I quoted the post. I even used the forum's built-in quote feature that provides a link back to the original so that no context is lost. I responded to the things said in that post, explicitly using the same terminology in my reply as used in the post I was replying to. Go back and re-read my posts, and let me know what I could possibly have done to make it any clearer what I was talking about.
Could you answer my question directly and clearly, please?
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 10:32 AM   #77
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 22,715
Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Could you answer my question directly and clearly, please?
Jesus wept.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
In this post, ponderingturtle says that Trump's rhetoric has shifted people to embrace white supremacy. I quoted the post. I even used the forum's built-in quote feature that provides a link back to the original so that no context is lost. I responded to the things said in that post, explicitly using the same terminology in my reply as used in the post I was replying to. Go back and re-read my posts, and let me know what I could possibly have done to make it any clearer what I was talking about.
I don't know how to make it any clearer or more direct than that.

Honestly I would have thought that quoting the post and replying to it would have been more than enough. I've tried repeatedly to answer your question to the best of my ability. Now will you answer a question for me, "clearly and directly": How should I have replied to ponderingturtle's post in such a way that it was clear to you what I was responding to?

Last edited by theprestige; 26th September 2017 at 10:34 AM.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 10:37 AM   #78
phiwum
Philosopher
 
phiwum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,487
Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
I don't know, I think the first step to progressing as a nation is to have everyone come out and just be honest about their attitudes and political beliefs. That sets the stage for great thinkers to come along and try to resolve the disparate and seemingly incompatible tenets of each side. Obviously the racism won't survive that process but it still needs to be represented on the way in.
Great thinkers don't seem to be able to dissuade racists through argument. This is, of course, not intended to say that such arguments shouldn't be had necessarily, but that your prediction seems fantastic.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
phiwum is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 10:56 AM   #79
Argumemnon
World Maker
 
Argumemnon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the thick of things
Posts: 67,306
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Jesus wept.
Don't lose hope.

Quote:
I don't know how to make it any clearer or more direct than that.

Honestly I would have thought that quoting the post and replying to it would have been more than enough. I've tried repeatedly to answer your question to the best of my ability. Now will you answer a question for me, "clearly and directly": How should I have replied to ponderingturtle's post in such a way that it was clear to you what I was responding to?
Aaahhhh.... ok. Somehow reading it for the fourth time did the job this time.
__________________
<Roar!>

Argumemnon is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th September 2017, 11:02 AM   #80
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 15,385
Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Great thinkers don't seem to be able to dissuade racists through argument. This is, of course, not intended to say that such arguments shouldn't be had necessarily, but that your prediction seems fantastic.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Yes.

Racism is emotional and not based on reason, so I can't see how that would help. People are not islands, they tend to absorb the attitudes around them, so if racists are feeling happy to be vocal about their vile views, then other people are likely to be influenced by them.

Making it so that people are ashamed to espouse racist views in public probably does work. The Kick Racism out of Football campaign probably did a lot for the UK, as it has mostly "denormalised" racism in one large public sphere.


When racists have to pretend that they "are not racist but..." then that is a start.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » USA Politics

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:09 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.