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Tags Ghislaine Maxwell , Jeffrey Epstein , sex trafficking

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Old 9th July 2020, 12:43 PM   #41
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If Maxwell dies in jail before a trial, not a remote possibility with the Covid rates in our abysmal prisons, it's going to kick the Epstein conspiracies into top gear.
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Old 9th July 2020, 12:56 PM   #42
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I was replying to Shemp and his press-credentialed cat. All good now, no worries.
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Old 11th July 2020, 07:36 AM   #43
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So Maxwell's lawyers asked for bail, which is not a surprise. In their filing they said that she was NOT a flight risk and indeed claimed that Maxwell has been in "regular contact" with federal prosecutors from the day following Epstein's arrest through her own arrest earlier this month.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/10/u...nse/index.html

Maxwell's attorneys also preview legal arguments they plan to make with regard to the indictment, which center on a non-prosecution agreement Epstein signed with federal prosecutors in Miami in 2007 that appeared to immunize "any potential co-conspirators of Epstein."

When Epstein himself was indicted, New York federal prosecutors said they believed the Florida agreement didn't restrict their office from prosecuting him, but his lawyers argued otherwise. That dispute wasn't resolved because Epstein died in jail while awaiting trial.
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Old 11th July 2020, 08:00 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
She may soon. Word is that Ghislane Maxwell "brokered the sale" of Melania Knauss to Donald Trump on behalf of Jeffery Epstein. That's the kind of secret that can get you killed. No idea how to link this - it's in a twitter video linked by rightwingwatch.

The guy expressing this opinion is Rick Wiles, who apparently has White House press credentials.
And we all know how credible those Whitehouse press credentials are, afterall they don't hand them out to every conspiracy theory idiot..... just selected ones!
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Old 11th July 2020, 08:11 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
I don’t think this is actually true. There’s been no official word that she tested positive for coronavirus.
yes, it turns out to be a hoax, and I turn out to be a sucker, I guess, for not checking it out.
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Old 11th July 2020, 11:25 AM   #46
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Surprised she didn't leg it to Israel like "Dame" Shirley Porter, she has the "Right of Return" and all that. Then again, maybe she considered it but figured it would be as good as admitting guilt.
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Old 11th July 2020, 01:14 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Surprised she didn't leg it to Israel like "Dame" Shirley Porter, she has the "Right of Return" and all that. Then again, maybe she considered it but figured it would be as good as admitting guilt.
Not sure "a good as admitting guilt" matters in her context. The courts still have to get actual evidence and build an actual case. "She fled the country, therefore she's guilty" isn't actually a thing in criminal law. And it's not like she gives a fig for the court of public opinion. She's a true 1%-er. Those of her class peers who were going to cut her off for her sins have already done so. The others - her allies and co-conspirators (I hesitate to call them her friends) - don't care how it looks. They're going to expect her to use every dirty trick her set can afford, to get out of facing the commoners' music.
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Old 11th July 2020, 01:32 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Not sure "a good as admitting guilt" matters in her context. The courts still have to get actual evidence and build an actual case. "She fled the country, therefore she's guilty" isn't actually a thing in criminal law. And it's not like she gives a fig for the court of public opinion. She's a true 1%-er. Those of her class peers who were going to cut her off for her sins have already done so. The others - her allies and co-conspirators (I hesitate to call them her friends) - don't care how it looks. They're going to expect her to use every dirty trick her set can afford, to get out of facing the commoners' music.
Indeed, it doesn't seem as if she would give a fig about whether she looks guilty or not especially to a public which already holds her in disesteem. Which leaves the possibility that she thinks there's a chance of getting off in court, or, of course, the possibility that she's just not very smart. Granted, I haven't followed her career much, but the little I've seen seems to require more chutzpah and round heels than brains.
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Old 11th July 2020, 02:28 PM   #49
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I wonder where Prince Andrew fits in all of this? Could he be required to testify at her trial, should there be one?
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Old 11th July 2020, 04:58 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Ian Osborne View Post
I wonder where Prince Andrew fits in all of this? Could he be required to testify at her trial, should there be one?

It seems unlikely to me. The prosecution would have no reason to call him as he’s just going to say he never saw anything untoward. And the defence seems like they are going more for a “technical” defence of being either time barred or covered by an immunity agreement.

But it would be hugely entertaining!
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Old 11th July 2020, 06:29 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
It seems unlikely to me. The prosecution would have no reason to call him as he’s just going to say he never saw anything untoward. And the defence seems like they are going more for a “technical” defence of being either time barred or covered by an immunity agreement.

But it would be hugely entertaining!
Eh ... keep your options open. They might call him to testify just so he can repeat his blithering idiot schtick to an American audience.

prince-andrew-bbc-interview-jeffrey-epstein-disaster(1percentersmag ...eh...townandcountrymag)
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Old 12th July 2020, 04:40 AM   #52
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She should be moved to Camp Peary for obvious reasons.
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Old 12th July 2020, 08:59 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Surprised she didn't leg it to Israel like "Dame" Shirley Porter, she has the "Right of Return" and all that. Then again, maybe she considered it but figured it would be as good as admitting guilt.
I suspect if she had tried it she would have been rapidly extradited to the USA. She would be a public relations nightmare if accepted into in any country, as well as a political can of worms.
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Old 12th July 2020, 10:21 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I suspect if she had tried it she would have been rapidly extradited to the USA. She would be a public relations nightmare if accepted into in any country, as well as a political can of worms.
I hear Ecuador has a spare bedroom these days.
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Old 12th July 2020, 10:25 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by IsThisTheLife View Post
Surprised she didn't leg it to Israel like "Dame" Shirley Porter, she has the "Right of Return" and all that. Then again, maybe she considered it but figured it would be as good as admitting guilt.
Or her mother. Family tradition.
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Old 12th July 2020, 11:26 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Giordano View Post
I suspect if she had tried it she would have been rapidly extradited to the USA. She would be a public relations nightmare if accepted into in any country, as well as a political can of worms.
Some countries won't extradite their own citizens. France is one of them. If she could have gotten to France, as the French-born daughter of a French mother she would likely have been safe.
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Old 14th July 2020, 02:19 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Some countries won't extradite their own citizens. France is one of them. If she could have gotten to France, as the French-born daughter of a French mother she would likely have been safe.
Safe from extradition maybe, but she could likely still have faced prosecution in France even if the crime didn't take place there.

Countries that do not extradite their citizens often permit other states to ask for their prosecution if the relevant criminal acts are illegal in both countries.
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Old 14th July 2020, 03:52 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
Safe from extradition maybe, but she could likely still have faced prosecution in France even if the crime didn't take place there.

Countries that do not extradite their citizens often permit other states to ask for their prosecution if the relevant criminal acts are illegal in both countries.
I'd like toi see a cite for that. I suppose it's conceivable, especially in the case of war crimes, but it's hard to imagine that it's routine. I don't see how someone could be prosecuted in France for crimes committed in New York and Florida. And what happens if the defendant is convicted? Does he go to a French jail? Does his home country pay for it? The whole point of prohibiting extradition is to protect a nation's citizens from foreign authority. I doubt they would circumvent it casually.
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Old 14th July 2020, 07:48 PM   #59
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Bail denied. Looks like she'll spend a year in jail before trial.
Quote:
Though the judge agreed with Maxwell's lawyers that her decision not flee the country while under criminal investigation for at least a year should be given "significant consideration," she ultimately rejected the proposed bail package.

The judge said she found it "practically impossible" to set financial conditions that could assure Maxwell's appearance in court, adding that "her recent conduct underscores her extraordinary capacity to avoid detection."

The judge scheduled Maxwell's trial to begin on July 12, 2021. Prosecutors said they expect the trial to take about three weeks.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...id=mailsignout
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Old 14th July 2020, 08:03 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Bail denied. Looks like she'll spend a year in jail before trial.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...id=mailsignout
Wow! That is pretty rough.
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Old 15th July 2020, 02:26 AM   #61
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She's showing a lot of leg on the front page of the (London) Times today. are they trying to change this (alleged) monster into some sort of sexy femme fatale?
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Old 15th July 2020, 03:14 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I'd like toi see a cite for that. I suppose it's conceivable, especially in the case of war crimes, but it's hard to imagine that it's routine. I don't see how someone could be prosecuted in France for crimes committed in New York and Florida. And what happens if the defendant is convicted? Does he go to a French jail? Does his home country pay for it? The whole point of prohibiting extradition is to protect a nation's citizens from foreign authority. I doubt they would circumvent it casually.
Quote:
ARTICLE 113-6
French criminal law is applicable to any felony committed by a French national outside the territory of the French Republic. It is applicable to misdemeanours committed by French nationals outside the territory of the French Republic if the conduct is punishable under the legislation of the country in which it was committed.

The present article applies even if the offender has acquired French nationality after the commission of the offence of which he is accused.

ARTICLE 113-7
French Criminal law is applicable to any felony, as well as to any misdemeanour punished by imprisonment, committed by a French or foreign national outside the territory of the French Republic, where the victim is a French national at the time the offence took place.

ARTICLE 113-8
In the cases set out under articles 113-6 and 113-7, the prosecution of misdemeanours may only be instigated at the behest of the public prosecutor. It must be preceded by a complaint made by the victim or his successor, or by an official accusation made by the authority of the country where the offence was committed.
https://www.legislationline.org/docu...30/France/show

Similar provisions exist in many of the law codes that I have been able to find in English.
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Last edited by Arcade22; 15th July 2020 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 15th July 2020, 03:24 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
She's showing a lot of leg on the front page of the (London) Times today. are they trying to change this (alleged) monster into some sort of sexy femme fatale?
Maybe even a sexy femme fatale in a wheelchair, to play both sides.
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Old 15th July 2020, 03:29 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
https://www.legislationline.org/docu...30/France/show

Similar provisions exist in many of the law codes that I have been able to find in English.
The Criminal Law (Jurisdiction) Acts in Ireland for example. IIRR such provisions are usual in Council of Europe members.
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Old 15th July 2020, 03:49 PM   #65
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Another example of "universal jurisdiction" that allows for the prosecution of people who can't be extradited (amongst others) is in Swedish law:

Quote:
Chapter 2 – On the applicability of Swedish law
Section 1
An offence committed in this
country is judged under Swedish
law and in a Swedish court. This
also applies if it is uncertain
where the offence was
committed but there are grounds
to assume that it was committed
in this country. Act 1972:812.

Section 2
An offence committed
abroad is judged under Swedish
law and in a Swedish court if the
offence was committed:
1. by a Swedish citizen or an
alien habitually resident in
Sweden;
2. by an alien not habitually
resident in Sweden who, after
the offence, has become a
Swedish citizen or become
habitually resident in this
country, or who is a Danish,
Finnish, Icelandic or Norwegian
citizen and is in Sweden;
3. by any other alien who is in
this country and the offence can,
under Swedish law, result in
imprisonment for more than six
months; or
4. in the exercise of the
business activities of a Swedish
company and the offence is
giving of a bribe, gross giving of
a bribe or trading in influence
under Chapter 10, Section 5d, point 2.

The first paragraph does not
apply if the act is not subject to
responsibility under the law of
the place where it was
committed or if it was
committed in an area that does
not belong to any state and,
under Swedish law, the penalty
for the act cannot be more severe
than a fine.
In cases referred to in this
Section, no sanction may be
imposed that is considered more
severe than the most severe
penalty provided for the offence
under the law in the place where
it was committed.
https://www.government.se/government...criminal-code/
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Old 15th July 2020, 05:13 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Arcade22 View Post
https://www.legislationline.org/docu...30/France/show

Similar provisions exist in many of the law codes that I have been able to find in English.
Like I said, "I suppose it's conceivable, especially in the case of war crimes..." But how often does it actually happen? And under what circumstances? Exhibit A: Roman Polanski.

Sounds like it might not apply to run-of-the-mill crimes.
Quote:
The French Criminal Code of Procedure (CCP) provides for universal jurisdiction over specified offenses emanating from international conventions ratified by France.1 Yet, the CCP does not establish an obligation to prosecute these crimes.2 The principle of universal jurisdiction allows for the investigation and prosecution of crimes regardless of where they were committed, and irrespective of the nationality of the victims and perpetrators.

The following crimes are penalized by French law under universal jurisdiction principles: torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment;3 enforced disappearances;4 crimes against cultural property during armed conflict;5 terrorism and financing terrorism;6 offenses committed with nuclear materials;7 unlawful acts against the safety of maritime navigation;8 seizure of aircraft and other crimes related to aviation;9 European Union (EU) corruption crimes;10 crimes within the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court (ICC);11 and specific road transport offenses.12
....
https://trialinternational.org/wp-co...-in-France.pdf

She might not have been perfectly safe in France, but I'm willing to bet she'd have been safer in Paris than in New Hampshire if she could have gotten there.

Last edited by Bob001; 15th July 2020 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 15th July 2020, 08:31 PM   #67
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I suppose one possibility is that she knows something we don't about what she might have done in France.
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Old 15th July 2020, 08:32 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Like I said, "I suppose it's conceivable, especially in the case of war crimes..." But how often does it actually happen? And under what circumstances? Exhibit A: Roman Polanski.

Sounds like it might not apply to run-of-the-mill crimes.

https://trialinternational.org/wp-co...-in-France.pdf

She might not have been perfectly safe in France, but I'm willing to bet she'd have been safer in Paris than in New Hampshire if she could have gotten there.
If she is really rich enough, that may still happen. Vide Carlos Ghosn's escape from Japan.
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Old 15th July 2020, 09:25 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
If she is really rich enough, that may still happen. Vide Carlos Ghosn's escape from Japan.
Yes but Ghosn got bail and managed to escape from that by walking out of his house. Escaping from jail and then fleeing the country is a whole different ballgame.
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Old 15th July 2020, 09:28 PM   #70
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The surprise news is that she is apparently married, but won’t name her husband.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...effrey-epstein

Where was Prince Andrew last November?
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Old 15th July 2020, 09:28 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Filippo Lippi View Post
She's showing a lot of leg on the front page of the (London) Times today. are they trying to change this (alleged) monster into some sort of sexy femme fatale?
Foxy Knoxy Part II
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"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 15th July 2020, 10:22 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
The surprise news is that she is apparently married, but won’t name her husband.
Wha? Isn't it a matter of public record? Isn't there a BDM office (Births Deaths and Marriages - get your mind out of the gutter) that this can be checked up on? A marriage is a legal contract.
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Old 15th July 2020, 10:37 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Wha? Isn't it a matter of public record? Isn't there a BDM office (Births Deaths and Marriages - get your mind out of the gutter) that this can be checked up on? A marriage is a legal contract.
Where? In the U.S., most birth, marriage and death records are maintained at the local level. You would have to know where she was allegedly married to look at the city or county records there. And they're not entirely public, in the sense that anybody could walk in and say "lemme see." You have to have a reason. I dunno whether she should be believed; she's pretty good at lying.

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Old 15th July 2020, 10:52 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Where? In the U.S., most birth, marriage and death records are maintained at the local level. You would have to know where she was allegedly married to look at the city or county records there. And they're not entirely public, in the sense that anybody could walk in and say "lemme see." You have to have a reason. I dunno whether she should be believed; she's pretty good at lying.
Oh of course. I forgot. America.
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Old 16th July 2020, 01:18 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Oh of course. I forgot. America.
Could be any country in the world, you’d have to know where to start looking even if they did have centralised records.
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Old 16th July 2020, 03:32 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Could be any country in the world, you’d have to know where to start looking even if they did have centralised records.
Not any country.

Here (and in Australia, where Arth comes from) we have a national "Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages". If I have authorised access, I could simply look up a person's name and find out where they were born, whether or not they were married, and if so, who they were married to. The whole exercise would take less than five minutes.
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Old 16th July 2020, 03:35 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Like I said, "I suppose it's conceivable, especially in the case of war crimes..." But how often does it actually happen? And under what circumstances? Exhibit A: Roman Polanski.

Sounds like it might not apply to run-of-the-mill crimes.

https://trialinternational.org/wp-co...-in-France.pdf

She might not have been perfectly safe in France, but I'm willing to bet she'd have been safer in Paris than in New Hampshire if she could have gotten there.
Roman Polanski is a exceptional case. The point was that simply avoiding extradition would not mean that she would avoid any and all legal consequences even-though she would have with all likelihood had a better chance of not being convinced in France (unless the evidence was overwhelming) given the increased work required by the Americans.

One of the major problems in "cross-jurisdictional prosecution" (or whatever you want to call it) is that regulations may severely compromise the authorities ability to meet the legal requirements in both jurisdictions. The sharing of evidence is a great example of that. Not to mention that police and prosecutors often quickly lose interest as long as the alleged criminal stays away... and outside of the spotlight.
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Old 16th July 2020, 04:46 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Not any country.

Here (and in Australia, where Arth comes from) we have a national "Registrar of Births, Deaths and Marriages". If I have authorised access, I could simply look up a person's name and find out where they were born, whether or not they were married, and if so, who they were married to. The whole exercise would take less than five minutes.
That's once you've established it was in Australia. Sure, once you start looking in Australia, it might not take long, but how do you know that's where to look?
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Old 16th July 2020, 04:55 AM   #79
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The papers are speculating that it's Scott Borgerson.
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Old 16th July 2020, 09:40 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yes but Ghosn got bail and managed to escape from that by walking out of his house. Escaping from jail and then fleeing the country is a whole different ballgame.
OK. But I did say "rich enough". A bribe or two here and there. Rental or theft of a stealth helicopter. Pick up from an open area. Flight into international waters. Transfer to Liberian registered ship. And away we go. Is there anything that cannot be bought with money?

And, don't forget she "has" a lot of scandalous information on lots of important people who might be coerced to cooperate.

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