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Tags Iowa politics , racism charges , racism issues , republicans , Steve King , white nationalism , white nationalists

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Old 13th November 2018, 09:39 AM   #281
ahhell
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Side note, this thread and the one about antifa =/ democrats have something in common. Folks claiming the other side won't criticize and only defends their worst actors and using forum members as evidence. When if you look, you can pretty easily find reps/cons criticizing King and Dems/libs criticizing antifa.
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Old 13th November 2018, 09:58 AM   #282
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Side note, this thread and the one about antifa =/ democrats have something in common. Folks claiming the other side won't criticize and only defends their worst actors and using forum members as evidence. When if you look, you can pretty easily find reps/cons criticizing King and Dems/libs criticizing antifa.
Really?

King has just been re-elected to Congress. No one from Antifa is ever even nominated.

What a silly equivalence.

The number of of reps who criticize King is a small minority. The numbers of dems who criticize antifa is, like, all of them who are not in the fringe group.

But keep telling yourself that both sides are equal....
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Old 13th November 2018, 10:15 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Really?
I realize that ahhell's post was hard to parse, but I re-read it a number of times and found it largely correct. I don't believe that anything in that post says that "both sides are equal." I see ahhell lamenting that forum members often use the worst posters as evidence for the toxicity, while if we look, we we can find examples of critical self-examination on both sides of the political aisle. As they put it: "reps/cons" criticizing King, and "Dems/libs" criticizing antifa.

Maybe have another look, and tell me if I'm reading that wrong.
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Old 13th November 2018, 10:21 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I realize that ahhell's post was hard to parse, but I re-read it a number of times and found it largely correct. I don't believe that anything in that post says that "both sides are equal." I see ahhell lamenting that forum members often use the worst posters as evidence for the toxicity, while if we look, we we can find examples of critical self-examination on both sides of the political aisle. As they put it: "reps/cons" criticizing King, and "Dems/libs" criticizing antifa.
Of course antifa has been kind of branded as being something other than it was 2 years ago. Then it was peaceful counter protests and videotaping events like like white supremacist marches. But republicans prove just how much better they are at branding and politically correct language that no one will support this activity anymore.
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Old 13th November 2018, 10:24 AM   #285
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I realize that ahhell's post was hard to parse, but I re-read it a number of times and found it largely correct. I don't believe that anything in that post says that "both sides are equal." I see ahhell lamenting that forum members often use the worst posters as evidence for the toxicity, while if we look, we we can find examples of critical self-examination on both sides of the political aisle. As they put it: "reps/cons" criticizing King, and "Dems/libs" criticizing antifa.

Maybe have another look, and tell me if I'm reading that wrong.
No, it's a lame attempt at false equivalence.

Yes, there are reps who criticize King. Maybe 5% of them do it.
And yes, there are dems who criticize antifa. Like 99% of them.

Don't pretend this is anywhere similar, despite the technically true fact that "there are X who criticize Y" applies to both sides. So it's technically true. So what? It's total nonsense to suggest that you can find a person to criticize King, therefore, it's just like the dems and antifa.
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Old 13th November 2018, 10:27 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Of course antifa has been kind of branded as being something other than it was 2 years ago. Then it was peaceful counter protests and videotaping events like like white supremacist marches. But republicans prove just how much better they are at branding and politically correct language that no one will support this activity anymore.
Yeah, this came up earlier. I would be very, very concerned if pretty much everyone participating here did not agree 95% with antifa. Considering that the foundation of antifa is to oppose naziism, that's a damn good position to hold.

I don't agree with all of it, for sure, but the premise is exactly correct. Or at least, I'd hope everyone can agree with it.
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Old 13th November 2018, 10:30 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
No, it's a lame attempt at false equivalence.

Yes, there are reps who criticize King. Maybe 5% of them do it.
And yes, there are dems who criticize antifa. Like 99% of them.

Don't pretend this is anywhere similar, despite the technically true fact that "there are X who criticize Y" applies to both sides. So it's technically true. So what? It's total nonsense to suggest that you can find a person to criticize King, therefore, it's just like the dems and antifa.
Worse than that actually. Not one Dem has been identified as an Antifa supporter in the Dems=Antifa thread, unsubstantiated claims about Berkeley City Council members notwithstanding.
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Old 13th November 2018, 10:33 AM   #288
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I still think that my reading of that post is correct, but the branding point is a good and valid one. What's that thing - the Overton window? Am I a victim of the framing of this conversation?
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Old 13th November 2018, 10:59 AM   #289
pgwenthold
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I still think that my reading of that post is correct, but the branding point is a good and valid one. What's that thing - the Overton window? Am I a victim of the framing of this conversation?
You are too generous, to a fault.

But no, this is similar to the "all politicians lie" defense of Trump's lies. That it's true that all politicians lie to some respect, that doesn't mean that there is anything in common between what Trump is doing and other politicians.
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Old 13th November 2018, 11:02 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Really?

King has just been re-elected to Congress. No one from Antifa is ever even nominated.
"In fairness the Republicans have found a place to put their extremists. Problem is that place is public office." - Bill Maher.
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Old 13th November 2018, 12:03 PM   #291
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Yeah, this came up earlier. I would be very, very concerned if pretty much everyone participating here did not agree 95% with antifa. Considering that the foundation of antifa is to oppose naziism, that's a damn good position to hold.

I don't agree with all of it, for sure, but the premise is exactly correct. Or at least, I'd hope everyone can agree with it.
I was not drawing a comparison of actors in the outside world, merely folks on this forum. Which I think is entirely accurate in this case. There are posters who make a habit of hasty generalizations regarding the opposition and they seem to use the more extreme members of this forum as their model for the other side.
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