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Tags assassinations , JFK assassination , John F. Kennedy , Kennedy conspiracies

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Old 9th November 2018, 02:11 PM   #2201
Hans
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Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
Is that a generic term? My dad used to call the Ben Franklin store the Five & Dime.
Yeah there 'type' are called dollar stores now - darn inflation.
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Old 9th November 2018, 02:12 PM   #2202
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
Well EVERYBODY knows it was the cigarette smoking man from the drainage inlet, so the TSBD is a misdirection.
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Old 9th November 2018, 03:03 PM   #2203
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Yeah there 'type' are called dollar stores now - darn inflation.
What's a Ben Franklin store? Is that where you buy his plates?
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Old 9th November 2018, 04:10 PM   #2204
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Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
Is that a generic term? My dad used to call the Ben Franklin store the Five & Dime.
Yes. That used to be a class of store. Usually named for the owner, some went on to become department stores.
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Old 9th November 2018, 06:21 PM   #2205
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Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
Is that a generic term? My dad used to call the Ben Franklin store the Five & Dime.
Montgomery Ward, Woolworth's, Sprouse Reitz and others were known as Five & Dime stores. Some of them sold ice cream cones.
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Old 9th November 2018, 06:37 PM   #2206
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might be a regional thing but around here in Jersey, we called the penny candy stores also.
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Old 9th November 2018, 07:16 PM   #2207
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"Five and ten cent stores" originated in the 1870s. I think the Woolworths were the first to use the term on their signage. This used to be where you'd find a million-dollar baby, though diamond bracelets Woolworths just didn't sell, baby.
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Old 10th November 2018, 02:01 PM   #2208
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Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Yeah there 'type' are called dollar stores now - darn inflation.
Inflation's not all bad . . . who doesn't want to live in a million dollar house?

Or make a million a year?

Even you don't have that now, just wait.

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Old 10th November 2018, 03:31 PM   #2209
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Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
Is that a generic term? My dad used to call the Ben Franklin store the Five & Dime.
Bryan Adams bought his first real six-string there. He played until his fingers bled. I believe it was in the summer of 69.
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Old 11th November 2018, 12:27 AM   #2210
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
Inflation's not all bad . . . who doesn't want to live in a million dollar house?

Or make a million a year?

Even you don't have that now, just wait.

Hank
Anybody in Munich in the thirties?
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Old 11th November 2018, 06:36 AM   #2211
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Originally Posted by Tomtomkent View Post
Anybody in Munich in the thirties?
Now you got it!

Hank
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Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 11th November 2018, 03:34 PM   #2212
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
Now you got it!

Hank
Hopefully, not the hyper inflation of that time in the time I have left.
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Old 11th November 2018, 10:07 PM   #2213
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Originally Posted by Tomtomkent View Post
Anybody in Munich in the thirties?
I think your referring to the German hyper inflation of the first half of the 1920's. In the early 1930's Munich would have been in the depression, where prices were declining not increasing.
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Old 12th November 2018, 06:20 AM   #2214
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It seems our resident CTs have been scared away by having facts discussed.
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Old 12th November 2018, 07:33 AM   #2215
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Originally Posted by RoboTimbo View Post
It seems our resident CTs have been scared away by having facts discussed.
CT's don't need no stinkin facts
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Old 12th November 2018, 10:35 AM   #2216
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Originally Posted by bknight View Post
CT's don't need no stinkin facts
Yeah what about those Australians? I mean I've never seen the government of Australia deny that they had anything to do with JFK's assassination.

Suspicious eh?
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Old 12th November 2018, 12:39 PM   #2217
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Today, on November 12, 1963, Oswald marches down the four blocks to the Dallas FBI field office to hand-deliver a note addressed to Special Agent Hosty.

Hosty said the note told him to stop bothering his wife, and instead to contact him directly if he wanted information.

After the assassination Hosty was told to destroy this note. He tore it up and flushed it down the toilet. He admits this was a huge mistake.

Needless to say, CTists have made all kinds of claims about what the note really said. Everything from Oswald threatening to kill JFK, to warning the FBI that the evil CIA/MAFIA/Military Conspiracy Complex was planning to kill the President.
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Old 12th November 2018, 12:41 PM   #2218
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And yes, the FBI field office was only four blocks away from the TSBD in case you're wondering how big the ball was that the Bureau dropped on 11/22/63.
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Old 12th November 2018, 01:25 PM   #2219
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Talking

Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
And yes, the FBI field office was only four blocks away from the TSBD in case you're wondering how big the ball was that the Bureau dropped on 11/22/63.
When did Oswald go on the test drive driving at speeds of 70 mph and say he was expecting to come into some money soon? Was that 11/9?

Conspiracy theorists like to pretend this was some 'Oswald double' the conspirators were having run around Dallas at the time to somehow frame Oswald for the assassination, but more than likely, it was the real Oswald who expected to apply for a driver's license but found the motor vehicle place closed for Veterans Day. Acting impetuously, he then took a car for a test-drive, lying to the salesman and saying he'd be back real soon to make a purchase.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Last edited by HSienzant; 12th November 2018 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 12th November 2018, 02:36 PM   #2220
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
When did Oswald go on the test drive driving at speeds of 70 mph and say he was expecting to come into some money soon? Was that 11/9?

Conspiracy theorists like to pretend this was some 'Oswald double' the conspirators were having run around Dallas at the time to somehow frame Oswald for the assassination, but more than likely, it was the real Oswald who expected to apply for a driver's license but found the motor vehicle place closed for Veterans Day. Acting impetuously, he then took a car for a test-drive, lying to the salesman and saying he'd be back real soon to make a purchase.

Hank
Here's the FBI report:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/oswalds-test-drive

Yep, looks like 11/9, from the WC testimony:

https://www.history-matters.com/arch...ol10_0181a.htm

Hopefully this makes up for just a little of my earlier lack of sourcing...
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Old 12th November 2018, 03:45 PM   #2221
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
Today, November 9, 1963, Ruth Payne takes Oswald to the Driver Examination Station along with Marina and the kids. The station is closed, so they and up shopping at a Five & Dime.
Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
When did Oswald go on the test drive driving at speeds of 70 mph and say he was expecting to come into some money soon? Was that 11/9?

Conspiracy theorists like to pretend this was some 'Oswald double' the conspirators were having run around Dallas at the time to somehow frame Oswald for the assassination, but more than likely, it was the real Oswald who expected to apply for a driver's license but found the motor vehicle place closed for Veterans Day. Acting impetuously, he then took a car for a test-drive, lying to the salesman and saying he'd be back real soon to make a purchase.

Hank
Originally Posted by Imhotep View Post
Here's the FBI report:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/oswalds-test-drive

Yep, looks like 11/9, from the WC testimony:

https://www.history-matters.com/arch...ol10_0181a.htm

Hopefully this makes up for just a little of my earlier lack of sourcing...
I was Just Asking Questions.... Questions I already knew the answers to. It was a softball tossed over the plate for Axxman (preferably) to hit out of the park. You'll do.

The FBI report shows the problem with hearsay. They are reporting a second hand hearsay account, and the account says Oswald drove a Lincoln Continental. Bogard testified it was a red Mercury Comet.

Of such discrepancies are conspiracy theories born.

But more to the point, I think the Warren Commission reached the wrong conclusion here. They concluded Bogard and Pizzo were mistaken and it wasn't Oswald in the showroom at the auto dealership on 11/9/63. They reached that conclusion in great part because that was a Saturday, and both Marina Oswald and Ruth Paine testified Oswald, who was visiting the Paine residence that weekend, never left the house that Saturday after returning home from the failed test drive attempt. The WC ignored what Oswald did earlier that day, and how Oswald would react to the DMV location being closed for the Veterans Day weekend.

However, I find it would have been totally understandable if Oswald, frustrated at his attempt to take a test drive, in a fit of pique, instead slipped out of the house when the women were occupied with the kids and household chores and thereafter went to an auto dealership and took his own private test drive. It's totally understandable to me that a 24-year-old male would react that way.... once being 24 myself.

Of course, conspiracists treat this as an either/or situation, and pretend the only two possibilities are it was Oswald bragging about coming into some money - and hence Oswald was part of a conspiracy; or it was someone pretending to be Oswald - in which case Oswald was being framed by conspirators. They never consider more mundane resolutions to the incident.

ERRATA: I said 11/9 was Veterans Day. That was incorrect. 11/9 was part of the Veterans Day weekend. Veterans Day proper fell on Monday, 11/11 that year.

See starting page 320 of the Warren Report for more details on the Lincoln/Mercury auto dealership incident.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
- Manifesto

Last edited by HSienzant; 12th November 2018 at 04:00 PM.
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Old 12th November 2018, 07:07 PM   #2222
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post
When did Oswald go on the test drive driving at speeds of 70 mph and say he was expecting to come into some money soon? Was that 11/9?

Conspiracy theorists like to pretend this was some 'Oswald double' the conspirators were having run around Dallas at the time to somehow frame Oswald for the assassination, but more than likely, it was the real Oswald who expected to apply for a driver's license but found the motor vehicle place closed for Veterans Day. Acting impetuously, he then took a car for a test-drive, lying to the salesman and saying he'd be back real soon to make a purchase.

Hank
I'd have to look that one up, it's not on the official time-line.

I'd like to believe Oswald went looking for a car, but the guy sounds a little too talkative to be him. The Comet would have been more his style, and cheaper.
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Old 13th November 2018, 07:33 AM   #2223
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
I'd have to look that one up, it's not on the official time-line.

I'd like to believe Oswald went looking for a car, but the guy sounds a little too talkative to be him. The Comet would have been more his style, and cheaper.
It wouldn't be on any official time-line, because the Warren Commission did not consider it to be him. And while the two witnesses who could speak to his whereabouts on that Saturday said he was watching football that day and didn't leave the house after the early foray to the DMV, they were no doubt occupied with their children and household chores, and didn't take note of his whereabouts at all times. And unlike some witnesses, Bogard and Pizzo spoke of the incident relatively quickly.

With some of the other people who came forward, (like Dial Ryder) they leave the impression they were just shooting the breeze and said they saw Oswald ('Ya know, that fella who shot the President came in here a few weeks ago to have me mount a scope on his rifle') and then were surprised to find their claim was reported to the FBI, who then made a big deal out of it, and actually investigated it. In some cases they admitted to making it up, in other cases they stuck with the original story. Ryder falls into the latter category.

The other reasons I believe the Bogard incident is that the Paines (especially Ruth) had been talking to Oswald about how being able to drive and having a cheap car could expand his range of jobs he could apply for, and enable him to improve his lot in life. Some of that was obviously sinking in, because Oswald was motivated enough to take driving lessons from Mrs. Paine and go for his driving test on 11/9/63. I see all that as part and parcel of Oswald maturing a bit and perhaps starting to understand that capitalism wasn't all bad, and how far he went in life was up to him and how badly he wanted to improve his station. It wasn't going to just happen overnight.

In fact, if the motorcade had happened a few months later, Oswald might have had a car, a better job elsewhere, and no opportunity or desire to shoot the President. I see some growth in Oswald and a rounding-off of some of the sharp edges. I know it's not a popular position to hold.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Last edited by HSienzant; 13th November 2018 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 13th November 2018, 02:23 PM   #2224
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The irony is that the motorcade will be announced in three more days(from today).

I agree that Oswald might have been growing up a bit, but in the end the assassination was all about timing, and opportunity. We still have a young man who had already tried to murder General Walker back in April, who now has two children, and a crummy job. If JFK waits until the following year to visit Dallas who knows where Oswald would have been in his life?
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Old 13th November 2018, 04:00 PM   #2225
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
The irony is that the motorcade will be announced in three more days(from today).

I agree that Oswald might have been growing up a bit, but in the end the assassination was all about timing, and opportunity. We still have a young man who had already tried to murder General Walker back in April, who now has two children, and a crummy job. If JFK waits until the following year to visit Dallas who knows where Oswald would have been in his life?
Agreed.

It's speculation on my part, having gone through a growth process that took me from a loner to gregarity. I see parts of Oswald in me, and parts of me in Oswald.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old 13th November 2018, 08:09 PM   #2226
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That's the key, and the puzzle of Oswald. He was nothing special.

That's why it's so hard for some to see him as a killer, because he's like everyone you know. Everyone knows a Lee Harvey Oswald.
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Old Yesterday, 07:34 AM   #2227
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Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
That's the key, and the puzzle of Oswald. He was nothing special.

That's why it's so hard for some to see him as a killer, because he's like everyone you know. Everyone knows a Lee Harvey Oswald.


Or metaphorically speaking, everyone knows Lee Harvey Oswald.

Except of course Conspiracy Theorists. They have no clue what he was really like. They have this imaginary Oswald, that willing takes orders from conspirators ("Here, Lee, hold this rifle while I take a photo of you with this camera"), when the real Lee quit his football team because the coach wouldn't make him the starting quarterback. The QB is of course the one who calls the plays. Oswald wasn't the type to take orders from anyone, and that personality trait caused him numerous headaches in the Marine Corps.

Hank
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I have never ”refused” to provide evidence. I provide evidence if requested to do so in a specific and relevant manner.

Hanks ”method” [of requesting evidence] is not going to [get me to] provide any evidence since it has a completely different purpose. To create the the illusion of me not providing evidence when requested to do so.
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Old Yesterday, 07:46 AM   #2228
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Originally Posted by HSienzant View Post


Or metaphorically speaking, everyone knows Lee Harvey Oswald.

Except of course Conspiracy Theorists. They have no clue what he was really like. They have this imaginary Oswald, that willing takes orders from conspirators ("Here, Lee, hold this rifle while I take a photo of you with this camera"), when the real Lee quit his football team because the coach wouldn't make him the starting quarterback. The QB is of course the one who calls the plays. Oswald wasn't the type to take orders from anyone, and that personality trait caused him numerous headaches in the Marine Corps.

Hank
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Old Yesterday, 01:03 PM   #2229
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In 1966, Charles Whitman took his rifles to the Main Building tower at the University of Texas, and shot a bunch of people.

A few days ago in Thousand Oaks, another young former Marine walked into a bar and killed a bunch of people.

All these guys had were their weapons, their training, and the will to follow through on their darkest impulse.

The Thousand Oaks incident has been nothing more than a social media speed bump because Americans are numb to this kind of thing today. Lee Harvey Oswald is just another sad-sack with a gun, and opportunity to kill.
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Old Yesterday, 01:38 PM   #2230
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[quote=HSienzant;12501000]It wouldn't be on any official time-line, because the Warren Commission did not consider it to be him. And while the two witnesses who could speak to his whereabouts on that Saturday said he was watching football that day and didn't leave the house after the early foray to the DMV, they were no doubt occupied with their children and household chores, and didn't take note of his whereabouts at all times. And unlike some witnesses, Bogard and Pizzo spoke of the incident relatively quickly.

The highlighted part doesn't make sense. They lived in a small house, not a mansion. Whatever they were doing, they would have noticed that Lee was no longer in the house for several hours.
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