Merged: Money/inequalities - Part 3 / Poll - willing to work for free?

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by abaddon

That still does not say that using money is criminal no matter how you read it.

Have you a reading/comprehension difficulty?

On different versions transgressors means criminals as this one:

ISV Luke 22.36 Then he told them, “But now whoever has a wallet must take it along, and his traveling bag, too. And the one who has no sword must sell his coat and buy one. 37 Because I tell you, what has been written about me must be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the criminals.’[q] Indeed, what is written about me must be fulfilled.”

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

On different versions transgressors means criminals as this one:

ISV Luke 22.36 Then he told them, “But now whoever has a wallet must take it along, and his traveling bag, too. And the one who has no sword must sell his coat and buy one. 37 Because I tell you, what has been written about me must be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the criminals.’[q] Indeed, what is written about me must be fulfilled.”

Again, you missed the word He. For some reason. I've marked it up a bit in case you can't find it. He, not money, not coins, not even swords, is counted among the criminals.

He was Judas. He wanted his people to stock up on weapons to lay the smackdown on Judas.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

On different versions transgressors means criminals as this one:

You dishonestly didn't address what Leftus said at all.

[Gaetan]

He is Jesus, in order to comply with Isaiah 52

Isaiah 53.12
12
Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,[j]
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,[k]
because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

He is Jesus, in order to comply with Isaiah 52

Isaiah 53.12
12
Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,[j]
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,[k]
because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors.

Nope. Jesus would not have referred to himself in the third person.

Even if so, that would make Jesus, not money, the criminal in your story. So your following of a self described criminal is disturbing. And not just because he used the third person on himself.

If we are to not to use money because Jesus called it criminal (your version) but in your other reading, he called himself a criminal, we shouldn't use his teachings.

[Joecool]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Money won't save your soul, Jesus said that to rich people, you can't buy haven with money. What you can buy with money in this world is to sit confortable on a toilet but after that the toilet will swallow you.

Jesus also told the parable of a lost coin. (Luke 15:8-10) The woman who lost the coin did notrest and searched her house and then rejoiced because she found the coin.

Imagine that, Jesus telling a story where someone rejoices because they found a coin.

And Jesus told his disciples to take their money bag. Imagine that, Jesus didn't
mind the use of money.

But were are supposed to believe Gaetan instead? LOL

[Gaetan]

Others reading your posts are witness of your lies

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Others reading your posts are witness of your lies

Instead of religiously fibbing about other people telling lies, why don't you try to defend your weird cult stance with evidence?

So far, everything you have said and posted has been definitively shot down with evidence.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by Joecool

Jesus also told the parable of a lost coin. (Luke 15:8-10) The woman who lost the coin did notrest and searched her house and then rejoiced because she found the coin.

Imagine that, Jesus telling a story where someone rejoices because they found a coin.

And Jesus told his disciples to take their money bag. Imagine that, Jesus didn't
mind the use of money.

But were are supposed to believe Gaetan instead? LOL

It is a parable meaning that despite of your sin it is always time to convert and act the right way

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

It is a parable meaning that despite of your sin it is always time to convert and act the right way

Aren't you claiming that your Jesus character wanted the apostles to give up their money in a world of money?

And you refuse to do the same while wanting others to?

Is there anything worse than religious hypocrisy?

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Others reading your posts are witness of your lies

The only one lying here be thee.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by Leftus

The only one lying here be thee.

I will tell you one more time. Jesus always said that prophets talk about him. ''He'' means him, Jesus Christ, because he cited Isaiah talking of him:

Isaiah 53.12
12
Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,[j]
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,[k]
because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors.


Luke 22.35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”

You should go back to school because you don't really understand a sentence or you are of bad faith.

He said that: To use money, to look like a criminal to comply, (conform to,) with the words of Isaiah

[Joecool]

Gaetan,

Jesus worked as a carpenter. the Bible never says he worked pro bono or volunteered his services. Therefore I can only conclude that Jesus worked for a pay check and was very likely an apprentice under his father.

Jesus never told people to avoid or to stop using money.

That zany assumption is yours alone.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by Joecool

Gaetan,

Jesus worked as a carpenter. the Bible never says he worked pro bono or volunteered his services. Therefore I can only conclude that Jesus worked for a pay check and was very likely an apprentice under his father.

Jesus never told people to avoid or to stop using money.

That zany assumption is yours alone.

He said it is criminal according to the verses you put on.

[Lukraak_Sisser]

Just out of curiosity, what actions have you actually undertaken Gaetan to show your system would even by slightly viable?
Posting on the internet does not count, I mean actual local or even national attempts that you have set up or even joined?

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

I will tell you one more time.

Lie by misrepresenting it all you want. It does not make it the truth. Even by your reading it makes Jesus, not money, the criminal.

Money is an inanimate object. It can no more be a criminal than a fence post. It can take no action.

So, once again, if by your first reading, you said money is the criminal and we should no use it, then, in your second reading, Jesus is the criminal, then by that very logic, we should not follow Jesus.

So are we following the sword buying self defined criminal Jesus or not?

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by Leftus

Lie by misrepresenting it all you want. It does not make it the truth. Even by your reading it makes Jesus, not money, the criminal.

Money is an inanimate object. It can no more be a criminal than a fence post. It can take no action.

So, once again, if by your first reading, you said money is the criminal and we should no use it, then, in your second reading, Jesus is the criminal, then by that very logic, we should not follow Jesus.

So are we following the sword buying self defined criminal Jesus or not?

I didn't say money is the criminal, the one who use it yes.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

I didn't say money is the criminal, the one who use it yes.

You use money, don't you?

[BStrong]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Others reading your posts are witness of your lies

There's only room for one of you in this thread.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

I didn't say money is the criminal, the one who use it yes.

You most certainly did.

Quote:

He said it is criminal according to the verses you put on.

It identifies an object, not a person. In this case, you were saying that Jesus said money, the object, is criminal. Then you said he was saying the he himself is the criminal.

Since you say Jesus self identifies as a criminal, and you too, why should we listen to a criminal (you) advising us to listen to a different criminal (Jesus)?

I don't take sobriety advice from a drunk who is making no effort to remain sober.

You should go back to school because you don't really understand a sentence or you are of bad faith.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by Leftus

You most certainly did.



It identifies an object, not a person. In this case, you were saying that Jesus said money, the object, is criminal. Then you said he was saying the he himself is the criminal.

Since you say Jesus self identifies as a criminal, and you too, why should we listen to a criminal (you) advising us to listen to a different criminal (Jesus)?

I don't take sobriety advice from a drunk who is making no effort to remain sober.

You should go back to school because you don't really understand a sentence or you are of bad faith.

Some one using money is a criminal, an unjust, the same as one using a gun, that what Jesus said and that's what i say. People want to pay the minimum for goods and services while you should pay the maximum, then people using money are unjust, criminals.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Some one using money is a criminal, an unjust, the same as one using a gun, that what Jesus said and that's what i say.

Except that you still use money so why would anyone listen to such religious hypocrisy?

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo

Except that you still use money so why would anyone listen to such religious hypocrisy?

I use money because that's the way we do it here but i don't want to do that i want to stop it.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

I use money because that's the way we do it here but i don't want to do that i want to stop it.

Don't you claim that your Jesus character asked the apostles to not use money even though they were in a world that used money?

Nobody will listen to such religious hypocrisy until give up money.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by RoboTimbo

Don't you claim that your Jesus character asked the apostles to not use money even though they were in a world that used money?

Nobody will listen to such religious hypocrisy until give up money.

When you are in Rome you have to do like the Roman, this is not hypocrisy, that's the way we do.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

When you are in Rome you have to do like the Roman, this is not hypocrisy, that's the way we do.

No, that's hypocrisy. But don't you claim that your Jesus character had the apostles go without money in a money world?

You've religiously avoided answering every time I've asked.

[Joecool]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Some one using money is a criminal, an unjust, the same as one using a gun, that what Jesus said and that's what i say. People want to pay the minimum for goods and services while you should pay the maximum, then people using money are unjust, criminals.

So Gaetan, you are admitting to be a criminal?

Jesus would never have told someone to commit a crime or a sin so you theory is wackadoodle.

"Some" people want to pay the minimum but that's not all people. Many people willl pay what is a fair price for good and services. Not everyone is a scrooge.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by Joecool

Many people willl pay what is a fair price for good and services. Not everyone is a scrooge.

That what is hypocrisy and a lie

[RoboTimbo]

How is it hypocrisy or a lie? You're just using your religious dishonesty to lash out when you're proven wrong.

[abaddon]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

When you are in Rome you have to do like the Roman, this is not hypocrisy, that's the way we do.

Like jesus did? But jesus was a criminal, you just told us so.

[BStrong]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

That what is hypocrisy and a lie

In your world, maybe.

In my world? one of our employees newest baby was born with multiple physical problems. We have a great medical plan, but it requires a minimum amount of hours in a month for coverage, and our contract only provides for 40 hrs. sick leave per calendar year, which he used up.

The board of Directors passed a motion to pay him for any days off taken wrt his sons medical treatment and also to maintain his medical coverage through myself and the GM donating our accrued vacation hours (at a much higher wage) to him.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Some one using money is a criminal, an unjust, the same as one using a gun, that what Jesus said and that's what i say. People want to pay the minimum for goods and services while you should pay the maximum, then people using money are unjust, criminals.

A gun in not a criminal. It can be used to commit crimes, but in and of itself, it is not a criminal. Same with money. Same with religion.

So, yes, People using money would be criminals, if used criminally. Which goes back to the quote. HE, meaning a person and not money. You say that the HE was a criminal and that he was Jesus. So, again, why should we listen to someone who self defines as a criminal?

Is it possible to use a gun in a non criminal manner? If so, and it is, then it's also possible to use money in a non criminal manner. There is nothing objectively evil in an object. It's all in the intent of the user. Money did not corrupt Jesus. The evil that made him a criminal was always in him.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by BStrong

The board of Directors passed a motion to pay him for any days off taken wrt his sons medical treatment and also to maintain his medical coverage through myself and the GM donating our accrued vacation hours (at a much higher wage) to him.

What a monster! How does he sleep at night?

[BStrong]

Originally Posted by Leftus

What a monster! How does he sleep at night?

Another evil riches business owner I know closed his business this year.

He had operated as a union shop since day 1.

In order for him to exit, he had to make whole retiree medical coverage and pension obligations etc.

The union had two options - one a bare minimum lump sum payment of approximately 450K, and if Phil wanted his people to maintain their current level of medical coverage and pension the ticker was 600K

Phil paid the 600K.

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by BStrong

Another evil riches business owner I know closed his business this year.

He had operated as a union shop since day 1.

In order for him to exit, he had to make whole retiree medical coverage and pension obligations etc.

The union had two options - one a bare minimum lump sum payment of approximately 450K, and if Phil wanted his people to maintain their current level of medical coverage and pension the ticker was 600K

Phil paid the 600K.

But that's not the minimum! Clearly, he doesn't understand the criminality of money.

[BStrong]

Originally Posted by Leftus

But that's not the minimum! Clearly, he doesn't understand the criminality of money.

Everybody that uses money is criminal riches.

If they give more money than minimum they even more criminal!

On the serious side of things, there's no shortage of ******** in any demographic, and I know more than one employer that sits up nights trying to come up with some scheme that would glean a few bucks off their payroll nut but they're in the minority.

The shareholders and the board of directors that I work couldn't be better to our guys.

When you work for a group of individuals that are concerned enough about their employees that a board member moves and the motion passes unanimously to give the family of an employee who died in July of that year the Christmas bonus he would have received had he been alive how can you yon cherish and respect those people?

[Joecool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joecool
Many people willl pay what is a fair price for good and services. Not everyone is a scrooge.

Originally Posted by Gaetan

That what is hypocrisy and a lie

What is a lie? What is hypocritical about what I said?

Obviously there are some people who want to exploit people and take advantage of them but there are many honest business owners who pay their employees a decent wage and provide some benefits such as medical insurance.

You work for wages. You don't seem to complain about your own work. It must pay you sufficiently to cover your bills and even have internet services.

[Gaetan]

Originally Posted by Joecool

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joecool
Many people willl pay what is a fair price for good and services. Not everyone is a scrooge.

What is a lie? What is hypocritical about what I said?

Obviously there are some people who want to exploit people and take advantage of them but there are many honest business owners who pay their employees a decent wage and provide some benefits such as medical insurance.

You work for wages. You don't seem to complain about your own work. It must pay you sufficiently to cover your bills and even have internet services.

Employers will give you money for your work to be competitive but what they want to pay you is zero dollar and what you want to pay for services and goods is zero dollar and the verses you put on Jesus said that use money is criminality.

[RoboTimbo]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Employers will give you money for your work to be competitive but what they want to pay you is zero dollar and what you want to pay for services and goods is zero dollar

No, just weird religious cultists want to pay zero dollar. Everyone else's posts prove you wrong and now you're just religiously lying about it.

Quote:

and the verses you put on Jesus said that use money is criminality.

So you and Jesus are criminals? Not the kind of cult I'd want to follow and I certainly won't be listening to any advice about money from one of those.

What is your opinion of all those religious who abuse children? Is that criminality? Do you think we should abolish religion?

[Leftus]

Originally Posted by Gaetan

Employers will give you money for your work to be competitive but what they want to pay you is zero dollar and what you want to pay for services and goods is zero dollar and the verses you put on Jesus said that use money is criminality.

No, only the entitled expect to pay nothing for goods and services. I expect, and do, pay for the work of others. I paid the guy who fixed my roof. I paid the people who fixed my Camaro (timing chain). And Maserati (not the same guys). That was an expensive week.

Also, wrong about Jesus too. He said they counted him as a criminal. A label he embraced. And they did not count him as a criminal because he was using money.

Can you do me a favor, and try to make an intentionally wrong statement? I really want to test the theory that you couldn't be more wrong if you tried.
Thanks!