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Tags Saudi Arabia incidents , Yemen civil war , Yemen incidents

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Old 18th September 2019, 01:02 PM   #81
Trebuchet
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Two equally repressive fundamentalist regimes. Nothing much to choose between them from a moral point of view.
Which puzzles me why some on the left seem to have a Iran "good" /Saudi Arabia" bad attitude. I guess Iran has successfully sold itself as some kind of "anti imperialist" power.

I despise Trump with a passion, but I cannot buy this "Enemy of my Enemy is My Friend" routine. I that couple of "progressives" in this thread are pretty much de facto apologist for Iran to be pretty digusting.
Got a cite for that?
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Old 18th September 2019, 02:19 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Got a cite for that?
Just read some of the comments in the thread.
or let's put it this way;people cut Iran a lot more slack then they do Saudi Arabia.
IMHO they are both repressive regimes with little to chose between them except that Iran seems to have a better PR Machine.
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Old 18th September 2019, 02:31 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
unfortunately, the Middle East is to some degree a zero-sum game: what weakens Saudi Arabia does relatively strengthen Iran.
That's the way Trump views the world too.
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Old 18th September 2019, 03:10 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
That's the way Trump views the world too.

It's called "orientalism". Exceptional people who can barely string threee sentences together in their native language telling the world "oh but they're all cave-dwellers and evil".

Good analysis by Pepe Escobar mentioning the term, but in the end not adding what should have been the last paragraph there: If SHTF, it's not the US who is missing their oil supply, it's others and first of all China. So we still have to hope that nobody thinks that's worth blowing up our Spaceship Earth.
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Old 18th September 2019, 04:14 PM   #85
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Saudi Arabia displays wreckage of weapons used in attacks. They look very similar to the Iranian smart bombs that can be dropped from the Iranian drones.


https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/...144905315.html
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Old 18th September 2019, 04:15 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Just read some of the comments in the thread.
or let's put it this way;people cut Iran a lot more slack then they do Saudi Arabia.
IMHO they are both repressive regimes with little to chose between them except that Iran seems to have a better PR Machine.

I see them as being very similar. One just has more oil and does massive arms deals with the US with Trump trying to sell them as much weaponary as he can.
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Old 18th September 2019, 05:00 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
It seems to be a constant that whenever we get new technology the first question is "Can we turn it into a weapon"?
You are wrong.

The FIRST question we ask is, "Can we use it for porn?"

Then we wonder about whether it can be a weapon.
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Old 18th September 2019, 05:04 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Just read some of the comments in the thread.
or let's put it this way;people cut Iran a lot more slack then they do Saudi Arabia.
IMHO they are both repressive regimes with little to chose between them except that Iran seems to have a better PR Machine.
Iran at least has historical and current reasons to be so hostile to the US. Saudi is supposed to be our friend and ally, yet they never seem to miss an opportunity to use us and abuse us. I prefer an open enemy to a treacherous "frenemy".
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Old 18th September 2019, 05:40 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Iran at least has historical and current reasons to be so hostile to the US. Saudi is supposed to be our friend and ally, yet they never seem to miss an opportunity to use us and abuse us. I prefer an open enemy to a treacherous "frenemy".
That's pretty much what I was thinking. When I get critical of SA, I'm doing at least partly as a way of being critical of U.S. foreign policy. And I am critical of U.S. foreign policy not because I hate my country (I don't) but because I love my country and want to be the best it can be, and therefore get greatly disappointed by our uncritical support of backward tyrants like the Saudi government.
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Old 18th September 2019, 05:54 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
That's pretty much what I was thinking. When I get critical of SA, I'm doing at least partly as a way of being critical of U.S. foreign policy. And I am critical of U.S. foreign policy not because I hate my country (I don't) but because I love my country and want to be the best it can be, and therefore get greatly disappointed by our uncritical support of backward tyrants like the Saudi government.
For me it's like the US is my best friend, and he's getting with some real trashy people. I want to say look, man, I know you got some daddy issues and some self esteem issues, but you can do so much better than that guy! Go on, clean yourself up, we'll go get a beer and find you somebody nice, who has a real job and no track marks.
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Old 18th September 2019, 05:55 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
That's pretty much what I was thinking. When I get critical of SA, I'm doing at least partly as a way of being critical of U.S. foreign policy. And I am critical of U.S. foreign policy not because I hate my country (I don't) but because I love my country and want to be the best it can be, and therefore get greatly disappointed by our uncritical support of backward tyrants like the Saudi government.
I hate my country.
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Old 18th September 2019, 06:03 PM   #92
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Pompeo says attack on Saudi oil field is 'act of war'

‘An Attack On Two Saudi Oil Tankers Is An Attack On All Americans’
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Old 18th September 2019, 06:25 PM   #93
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More pictures here.


https://www.thenational.ae/world/men...ack-1.911934#5


Appears to be two types of weapons that did that actual exploding. Wedge shaped drones which are pretty old technology now, and smart, laser guided bombs, which are newer technology. The wedge shaped drones wouldn't be able to carry the laser guided bombs.
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Old 18th September 2019, 06:26 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Iran at least has historical and current reasons to be so hostile to the US. Saudi is supposed to be our friend and ally, yet they never seem to miss an opportunity to use us and abuse us. I prefer an open enemy to a treacherous "frenemy".
My beef with SA is that they fund terrorism and religious extremism all over the region. They're the biggest state sponsors of terrorism in the world.

You know how the Catholic Church used to control the masses into religious wars for political gain? It's apparently like that, but SA is going about it in a much more methodical and strategic way. It's diabolical.
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Old 18th September 2019, 06:27 PM   #95
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Given that Iran knows there will be an attack by the US in the near future, what is their leaders game plan? Is it something they have anticipated that will benefit them or is it just blow stuff up because that's what all reputable extremists do?
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Old 18th September 2019, 07:15 PM   #96
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Here's what seems to be a pretty good overview from Brookings of the war between Yemen youth rebels and Saudi Arabia:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/marka...war-with-them/
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Old 18th September 2019, 07:19 PM   #97
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Also relevant:
https://academic.oup.com/ia/article-...dFrom=fulltext
Quote:
According to Saudi Arabia, the Houthis are an Iranian proxy; they therefore frame the war as an effort to counter Iranian influence. This article will argue, however, that the Houthis are not Iranian proxies; Tehran's influence in Yemen is marginal. Iran's support for the Houthis has increased in recent years, but it remains low and is far from enough to significantly impact the balance of internal forces in Yemen. Looking ahead, it is unlikely that Iran will emerge as an important player in Yemeni affairs. Iran's interests in Yemen are limited, while the constraints on its ability to project power in the country are unlikely to be lifted. Tehran saw with the rise of the Houthis a low cost opportunity to gain some leverage in Yemen. It is unwilling, however, to invest larger amounts of resources. There is, as a result, only limited potential for Iran to further penetrate Yemen.
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Old 18th September 2019, 07:49 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Here's what seems to be a pretty good overview from Brookings of the war between Yemen youth rebels and Saudi Arabia:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/marka...war-with-them/

That was much better than I did expect. Good summary.

A good source from Yemen is Nasser Arrabyee who occasionally appears on Scott Horton's podcast. Just went looking for a link and found the latest interview - recorded yesterday - on a different podacst in my feed reader. Haven't listened yet but can say it sure will be interesting.
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Old 18th September 2019, 10:13 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Two equally repressive fundamentalist regimes. Nothing much to choose between them from a moral point of view.
Which puzzles me why some on the left seem to have a Iran "good" /Saudi Arabia" bad attitude. I guess Iran has successfully sold itself as some kind of "anti imperialist" power.
Yeah, anti-imperialist. They fight the empires by creating proxy regimes and parastates throughout the region, to rule from Teheran. That's some serious anti-imperialist fighting indeed.

Quote:
I despise Trump with a passion, but I cannot buy this "Enemy of my Enemy is My Friend" routine. I that couple of "progressives" in this thread are pretty much de facto apologist for Iran to be pretty digusting.
Exactly. Trump will be gone long before Iran will be a friend, or even anything less than a rogue state. Chances are Trump will not be a factor 18 months from now. There is absolutely no reason, moral or otherwise, to align oneself with a theocratic fascist state against Trump.

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Old 18th September 2019, 10:15 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
The guy you are having the discussion with is a perfect example of this left wing de facto Support of Iran I find so puzzling.
And, Iran has been screaming for the destruction of Israel since 1979.That seems have gone by this guy's head.
In my humble experience calls for the destruction of Israel are counted in favor of Iran. After all, all nations deserve their homelands, so Israel must be destroyed in order to make room for the Palestinian Arabs.

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Old 20th September 2019, 03:33 PM   #101
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VOA is pushing war using the big guns now: anonymous US officials.

"Carla Babb
@CarlaBabbVOA
US officials have confirmed to VOA that #Iran is responsible for the attacks on the Saudi oilfield. One US official said that the attack originated in "southwest Iran" and that the US has more proof "than just debris" to back this up."

https://twitter.com/CarlaBabbVOA/sta...48494333652995
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Old 23rd September 2019, 03:50 AM   #102
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Trump wants to speak to the UN assembly about the attack and Iran's role.

not sure that is a wise move for his ego...
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Old 23rd September 2019, 04:06 AM   #103
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What are the odds he rambles off the point and starts talking about his TV ratings?
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Old 23rd September 2019, 04:36 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
VOA is pushing war using the big guns now: anonymous US officials.

"Carla Babb
@CarlaBabbVOA
US officials have confirmed to VOA that #Iran is responsible for the attacks on the Saudi oilfield. One US official said that the attack originated in "southwest Iran" and that the US has more proof "than just debris" to back this up."

https://twitter.com/CarlaBabbVOA/sta...48494333652995

US officials are a very unreliable source. They still seem to think that U.S. embassy employees in Havana were attacked by microwave or sonic weapons ...
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Old 23rd September 2019, 04:48 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Two equally repressive fundamentalist regimes. Nothing much to choose between them from a moral point of view.
Which puzzles me why some on the left seem to have a Iran "good" /Saudi Arabia" bad attitude. I guess Iran has successfully sold itself as some kind of "anti imperialist" power.

Are you unaware that pointing out a lie about a country is not the same thing as finding that country good or even "anti imperialist"?

Quote:
I despise Trump with a passion, but I cannot buy this "Enemy of my Enemy is My Friend" routine. I that couple of "progressives" in this thread are pretty much de facto apologist for Iran to be pretty digusting.

You may despise Trump as much as you want, but you don't seem to despise his reasons for wanting a war.
How exactly are "that couple of "progressives" in this thread (...) pretty much de facto apologist for Iran"?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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